Post: #1

Earlier I was browsing the forum and came across eskimobobseal's post "Feminist say men concerned about tranny bathrooms are 'creepy'." His post and my reply (posted below for reference) got me to thinking...Do women have some sort of pathological masochistic streak bordering at times on a death wish?

(05-19-2016 08:10 PM)LeoneVolpe Wrote:  I don't wish to see harm come to any woman, but I sometimes wonder whether or not women wish to have harm brought on themselves. They seem to display an undeniable and perhaps even pathological masochistic streak. In extreme cases, this may even manifest as a sort of death wish. How else can you explain European women welcoming rapefugees (who have no desire to assimilate themselves to the native culture) into their countries?

Pat Robertson once said, "Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians." Now I don't really give two shits and a squirt of piss about Pat Robertson but on that particular point, he was spot-on. Women truly have a knack for supporting things which only help to facilitate their own undoing.

If heterosexual men are going to be labeled "creepy" for caring about women's welfare, perhaps it's time to find out just how "strong" and "independent" these women really are. Let them fight their own battles for once. Let's see how they fair against the sexual predators who would use tranny bathroom laws to have access to them during moments of extreme vulnerability. Let's see how they defend themselves against the hordes of "refugees" who seek to spread their bullshit religion and will happily rape, pillage and plunder through their countries.

It's funny, women will blame men for everything but when shit hits the fan we're the first ones they come to for help.

I was inspired to do a little internet research and came across an interesting article on Wikipedia, as it turns out:

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defeating_personality_disorder)

In 1987, there was a proposed personality disorder discussed in the appendix of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) but was never formally admitted into it. The disorder was called self-defeating personality disorder (also known as masochistic personality disorder).

Here was the definition proposed in the DSM-III:

"Self-defeating personality disorder is:

A.) A pervasive pattern of self-defeating behavior, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts. The person may often avoid or undermine pleasurable experiences, be drawn to situations or relationships in which they will suffer, and prevent others from helping them, as indicated by at least five of the following:

. chooses people and situations that lead to disappointment, failure, or mistreatment even when better options are clearly available

. rejects or renders ineffective the attempts of others to help them following positive personal events (e.g., new achievement), responds with depression, guilt, or a behavior that produces pain (e.g., an accident)

. incites angry or rejecting responses from others and then feels hurt, defeated, or humiliated (e.g., makes fun of spouse in public, provoking an angry retort, then feels devastated)

. rejects opportunities for pleasure, or is reluctant to acknowledge enjoying themself (despite having adequate social skills and the capacity for pleasure)

. fails to accomplish tasks crucial to their personal objectives despite demonstrated ability to do so, e.g., helps fellow students write papers, but is unable to write their own

. is uninterested in or rejects people who consistently treat them well

. engages in excessive self-sacrifice that is unsolicited by the intended recipients of the sacrifice

B.) The behaviors in A do not occur exclusively in response to, or in anticipation of, being physically, sexually, or psychologically abused.

C.) The behaviors in A do not occur only when the person is depressed."

I understand no man or woman is perfect and we all make mistakes. However, it's quite difficult to read through that description and not find it particularly fitting of the female gender.

Caveat:

Now I'm certainly no scientist and must admit I've not participated in any formal studies/experiments on this subject. All I can offer are my own personal experiences which of course could easily be written off scientifically as anecdotal evidence or my own confirmation bias.

I'm not writing this to in any way excuse/absolve women of personal responsibility for their actions. I'm not necessarily even writing this to understand why women are the way they are. That's likely a rabbit hole not worth going down. I write this with the intent of hopefully uncovering what's true and how we could use such information to our benefit.

Humans function most optimally when they are able to assess the objective truth of what's happening around them. I quote Robert Greene, "The firmer your grasp on reality, the more power you will have to alter it for your own purposes." If this is, in fact, true of women, it does no good to wish it were different. You have to accept reality for what it is, not what you wish it to be.

With that being said, if all women have self-defeating personality disorder to some degree or another, it certainly brings clarity to a lot of the things they're known for that are otherwise logically mystifying.

Examples include:

Choosing alpha males displaying dark triad traits over more reliable beta males

Embracing left-wing political ideologies like feminism that are counterproductive to their own biological imperatives

European women inviting "refugees" who will not assimilate to the host culture of their countries and will choose instead to rape and pillage their way across Europe

Fill in your own example

Now I've not ironed out what the implications of all this means, it's only my hypothesis at this point. But I'm curious what the rest of you think. If there is any truth to this idea, how we might use (or continue using) this information to our advantage since obviously we are in no position to change human nature.

Post: #2

Just the story of Adam and Eve. Woman always think they know better.

Adam was just chillin in Paradise, until Eve showed up....

But I have no problem letting the stupid suffer the consequences of their actions. Yes, that includes women.

Post: #3

There is no such a thing as "Self defeating perosnality disorder" or "Masochistic Personality Disorder"

There is just men and women, who have adopted to their extremely different sex roles and men and women who have not adapted or are maladapted.

Modern academic psychology operates on politically correct premises that individual differences are more important then the differences between men and women which is false.

I cringe every time people in this forum use such artificial and abused terms ad psychopathy and sociopathy as well- completely artificial terms void of real world meaning.

Forget all this crap. Psychology is simple. For man it is either a man has internalized a healthy masculine role from his father or mentor or he doesn't. For a woman it is either she has a healthy and realistic viewpoint about what to expect from a man and what a man wants from her or not - all this comes from her father too. For children and their behavior for both boys and girls depends almost solely on how much time their father spends with them and how. That is all the psychology there is - a persons relation to their father is everything at all ages for both sexes. Mother is important for both sexes too, but not that important by the way.

Maybe aside from some extremely specific psychological things like arachnophobia, fear of heights and such thing everything in human is psyche about fatherhood -all the disorders and anxieties find root here. Psychology is useless and religion was able to fulfill that role just by teaching people about the heavenly father for hundreds of years, thus healing people and enabling them to form a relationship with an imaginary but perfect father if their real father was a failure.

Fatherhood is what makes us different from animals and the reason we have a psyche in the first place. Without fatherhood it all crashes down.

If we would restore the role of father as something respectable the society would solve 90% of it's psychological problems, but then psychologists would lose jobs and corporations would lose their enslaved drone workers sot it won't be ever admitted. Instead a hundred pointless theories will spinned, thousands of empty publications will be written and millions of people will live and die being confused about all this.

And about the women being masochistic - they are submissive by nature, the less healthy masculine leadership is allowed in society the more women will seek it in sex via 50 shades of Gray masochism or self sabotaging themselves via tattoos, casual sex and other bad decisions of the most various kind.

Post: #4

No. Plenty of women are sadists.

Post: #5

(05-20-2016 02:05 AM)DaKi Wrote:  No. Plenty of women are sadists.

Most often sadism and masochism goes hand in hand and most often if one is present in an individual then the other is too. Therefore the term - sadomasochism.

Post: #6

(05-20-2016 02:14 AM)Mage Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 02:05 AM)DaKi Wrote:  No. Plenty of women are sadists.

Most often sadism and masochism goes hand in hand and most often if one is present in an individual then the other is too. Therefore the term - sadomasochism.

Typically, WRT psychological disorders, one is either a sadist (used to be in DSM, is no longer) or masochist (ditto). Sadomasochism refers not to a condition in which one is simultaneously a sadist and masochist, but to what is commonly called "S&M"--see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadomasochism .

Post: #7

I thought your response to my post was interesting but I think the issue lies more with the feminist goal of redefining traditional gender roles and engaging in an ideological jihad against anything remotely masculine.

Post: #8

Yes DaKi but just because someone has anti-social personality disorder doesn't mean that person is never sociable. Couldn't someone with masochistic personality disorder sometimes exhibit sadistic traits? I can't imagine any disorder is completely all encompassing.

Post: #9

I don't think women necessarily have an issue with masochistic personality disorder, i think the real issue is the fact that since the 50s men have lost complete control of their women and now a subset of them have formed a radical group designed to destroy the same "patriarchy" that is responsible for western civilization to begin with while also pretending biology doesn't exist.

Case in point, they've gone completely insane.

Post: #10

(05-20-2016 02:29 AM)DaKi Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 02:14 AM)Mage Wrote:  

(05-20-2016 02:05 AM)DaKi Wrote:  No. Plenty of women are sadists.

Most often sadism and masochism goes hand in hand and most often if one is present in an individual then the other is too. Therefore the term - sadomasochism.

Typically, WRT psychological disorders, one is either a sadist (used to be in DSM, is no longer) or masochist (ditto). Sadomasochism refers not to a condition in which one is simultaneously a sadist and masochist, but to what is commonly called "S&M"--see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadomasochism .

Especially if we look in S&M context, if we look at this sexually, then I think most sadists would easily switch and enjoy receiving a little masochistic treatment. In a S&M relationship it is the masochist that actually gets most pleasure. Many women would love to be dominated but would find it boring to be the master. Therefore it is hard to find a dominatrix for submissive men and female led relationships are so unstable - when a masochistic man gives power to a female she grows bored fast and rather finds a new dominant man then sticks around to whip the boring masochistic one.

True sadists are not necessarily sexual in nature at all (think Jofrry in Game of thrones). True sadists who actually enjoy suffering of others don't really care if the suffering is of a sexual kind or not. But those who enjoy sexual games with sadomasochistic flavor are most often both masochists who just play he role of a sadist to get it done and then they are eager to switch.

Post: #11

Mage, I enjoyed reading your perspective and I do agree with you to a point. I'll admit, it's frustrating when some egghead collects a bunch of character traits redefines them as "symptoms" and if enough are present rebrands them as a "condition". The problem is, people are too quick to self-diagnose and are often mistaken about the diagnoses. Hell, even doctors aren't infallible.

I can't remember where I heard it, but I heard this somewhere before -- Back in the Wild West, if some guy was acting like an asshole, people didn't say "Oh, don't mind him. He just has anti-social personality disorder," they said, "Oh, that's Roy. He's an asshole." Anyone who couldn't deal with Roy's shit avoided him and the ones who could handle it knew the score.

I'm not saying there aren't legitimate medical conditions. Obviously, there are. But some people will use a medical diagnosis (or worse self-diagnosis) as a crutch to excuse pisspoor behavior.

I don't think psychology is all bullshit, though. I certainly won't write off the entire profession like Tom Cruise did during his interview with Matt Lauer several years back. But I do think there is something to be said against doctors prescribing drugs to patients and getting kickbacks from the pharmaceutical companies but that's a post for another time.

I don't think the link posted correctly earlier, but there was additional information on the Wikipedia page I found interesting. Apparently, a guy named Theodore Millon identified four subtypes of masochist:

Subtype: Virtuous
Description: Including histrionic features

Symptoms: Proudly unselfish, self-denying, and self-sacrificial; self-ascetic; weighty burdens are judged noble, righteous, and saintly; others must recognize loyalty and faithfulness; gratitude and appreciation expected for altruism and forbearance.

Subtype: Possessive
Description: Including negativistic features

Symptoms: Bewitches and ensnares by becoming jealous, overprotective, and indispensable; entraps, takes control, conquers, enslaves, and dominates others by being sacrificial to a fault; control by obligatory dependence.

Subtype: Self-undoing
Description: Including avoidant features

Symptoms: is “wrecked by success”; experiences “victory through defeat”; gratified by personal misfortunes, failures, humiliations, and ordeals; eschews best interests; chooses to be victimized, ruined, disgraced.

Subtype: Oppressed
Description: Including depressive features

Symptoms: Experiences genuine misery, despair, hardship, anguish, torment, illness; grievances used to create guilt in others; resentments vented by exempting from responsibilities and burdening “oppressors.”


Now I can see how we could take the "Wild West Approach" and just say a chick's being a bitch. But sometimes it's fun to dig a little deeper and see what's going on beneath the surface. I can see how that might not be interesting to everyone but I find studying people to be intellectually stimulating.

I've yet to meet a woman who doesn't enjoy being dominated in bed. It's a no-brainer to say a girl would rather get fucked than be made love to. Sure, they might like to ease into it at first but ultimately they all like it rough. Some might call that submissive, but even the Wikipedia article mentions:

"Historically, masochism has been associated with feminine submissiveness. This disorder became politically controversial when associated with domestic violence which was considered to be mostly caused by males. However a number of studies suggest that the disorder is common. In spite of its exclusion from DSM-IV in 1994, it continues to enjoy widespread currency amongst clinicians as a construct that explains a great many facets of human behaviour."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defeating_personality_disorder

Post: #12

Another example of strange female behavior: Pursuing serial killers. We live in a world where all women like bad boys yet will make comments like, "Where have all the good men gone?" while others actively pursue men behind bars.

"Freud postulated that human beings are dominated by two basic instincts: Eros (the sexual drive or creative life force) and Thanatos (the death force or destructiveness)." I suppose that could be what's going on here but perhaps that's just more psycho-babble bullshit.







.

Post: #13

F. Roger Devlin had an interesting article on this subject: The Question of Female Masochism:

Quote:It is hardly a new idea that female sexuality has a masochistic component. Indeed, this seems to be part of the folk wisdom of the world; in other words, it corresponds the observations of many persons of both sexes across many generations.

Quote:We are attracted to qualities in the opposite sex which our own sex lacks. For many women, this means an attraction to male brutality. Such women may claim to want a sensitive fellow who is in touch with his feelings, but this bears no relation to their behavior. What women say about men comes from their cerebral cortex; how they choose men depends upon their evolutionary more primitive limbic system. Even campus feminists choose arrogant jocks to “hook up” with, not male feminists in touch with their emotions.

Quote:Think for a moment, men, how you would learn to behave if you were dependent for survival on an unpredictable and often violent creature larger and stronger than yourself. You would learn not simply to take what you wanted. You would learn to act when his back is turned, to use indirection, deception, manipulation. You would learn to conceal your true thoughts and keep Big Boy confused as to your true intentions. You would, in short, learn to act like a woman.

Quote:sadism is merely the opposite face of masochism. I would suggest that female sadism might be expected to emerge in a society where men refuse to or are prevented from displaying dominance. A society-wide failure of men to take charge of women is likely to produce a great deal of conscious or unconscious sexual frustration in women which may express itself as sadism.

Post: #14

(05-20-2016 01:30 AM)LeoneVolpe Wrote:  Do All...

No.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #15

One matter is for sure.
When the leash is loosened, their behaviour does more to justify 'red-pill' philosophy than anything else.

Post: #16

(05-20-2016 06:38 AM)Renzy Wrote:  F. Roger Devlin had an interesting article on this subject: The Question of Female Masochism:

Quote:It is hardly a new idea that female sexuality has a masochistic component. Indeed, this seems to be part of the folk wisdom of the world; in other words, it corresponds the observations of many persons of both sexes across many generations.

Quote:We are attracted to qualities in the opposite sex which our own sex lacks. For many women, this means an attraction to male brutality. Such women may claim to want a sensitive fellow who is in touch with his feelings, but this bears no relation to their behavior. What women say about men comes from their cerebral cortex; how they choose men depends upon their evolutionary more primitive limbic system. Even campus feminists choose arrogant jocks to “hook up” with, not male feminists in touch with their emotions.

Quote:Think for a moment, men, how you would learn to behave if you were dependent for survival on an unpredictable and often violent creature larger and stronger than yourself. You would learn not simply to take what you wanted. You would learn to act when his back is turned, to use indirection, deception, manipulation. You would learn to conceal your true thoughts and keep Big Boy confused as to your true intentions. You would, in short, learn to act like a woman.

Quote:sadism is merely the opposite face of masochism. I would suggest that female sadism might be expected to emerge in a society where men refuse to or are prevented from displaying dominance. A society-wide failure of men to take charge of women is likely to produce a great deal of conscious or unconscious sexual frustration in women which may express itself as sadism.

I found this to be quite interesting. That certainly makes sense and lends even more credibility to the idea that feminism is, essentially, one GIANT shit test. When women aren't getting their requisite masochistic fix, they'll become sadistic in order to incite masochistic treatment/punishment from men.

Post: #17

There is a well known(within manosphere type arena) text/article by a guy who was looking at the female tendency towards masochism.

It's been posted here a few times, and is on a site that collates various "red pill" articles, or similar. If this jogs your memory please share.