Is dentistry mostly a scam?

Where is DVY when you need him?

A lot of dental questions were answered in his definitive thread:

/thread-22744.html

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(12-31-2016 10:42 AM)Stirfry Wrote:  Hi guys,

I am a dentist, though I stopped practicing a few years ago and switched to research (oral cancer). When I have a little more time I'll write a more comprehensive answer to the question "is dentistry a scam," though the short answer is "yeah, sort of."

Briefly:
1) as an adult, if you brush and floss, you should really have no problems, depending on your diet. Dentists usually recommend recall visits every 6 months, but that's not necessary, and incredibly self-serving.

2) that comment about the hunter-gatherers not having cavities is true. The only reason humans get cavities is through the consumption of refined sugars. Before sugary and refined, processed starchy foods emerged into our culture, cavities were very rare. In fact tooth decay was originally considered to be a disease of royalty because only the nobles had access to sugar initially. I'm sure Hunter-gatherer skulls probably showed a lot of tooth wear (their food was much more difficult to chew) but almost no cavities.

3) That stuff about not needing braces because their teeth developed properly seems a bit far-fetched to me. Tooth development has nothing to do with the need for the dental treatment – it all depends on jaw size relative to the teeth that need to erupt. And it's purely for esthetics. Orthodontists will tell you that braces are necessary for proper jaw functioning but that's crap. However, aesthetics do have a place in our society, so I'm not saying ortho is a scam. More like a luxury.

4) due to water Fluoridation and better oral hygiene instruction, tooth decay is becoming more and more rare these days. Therefore, dentists are trying to find new ways to generate money. In fact, when I was a dentist, I remember attending various seminars which were basically innovative ways to get more money from patients that didn't involve drilling on teeth (I.e., sealants for kids, fluoride treatments, iontophoresis for tooth pain, tooth bleaching, temporomandibular joint disorder interventions such as mouthguards, etc.). That's why my answer to the question about it being a scam is "yeah, sort of". The analogy with Jiffy Lube is rather apt: it's a business model where they try to come up with all kinds of other ideas to squeeze money out of the customer.

I'd also be happy to answer any dental questions you guys might have. Everyone here has been quite supportive of me so it's the least I could do.

Thanks for the informative post. My mom's a dental hygienist with 40 years' experience, and what I've learned from her gels with your comment.

As we are all male on this forum who have likely been exposed to HPV, shouldn't we still go to the hygienist once every six months who does an oral-cancer screen? Otherwise I'm a heavy tea drinker, and my teeth look a helluva lot better after getting scraped, hence the reason why I go once every six months. And also because my mom's my hygienist.

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(01-02-2017 09:02 PM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  Speak of the devil, I'm getting all four wisdom teeth pulled out at 6am tomorrow morning. For anyone who has gone through it, any tips as to what food is best to eat? I'm thinking lots of applesauce and soup. For the dental professionals amongst us, any further advice other than to get lots of rest and take the pain meds the surgeon will hand out?

Had wisdom teeth impacted below the gum line(a little more complicated than a regular extraction).

But yeah my oral surgeon suggested the same as you said soup, applesauce, gelatin, oatmeal, and pudding. (I didn't give a fuck so I was eating hot dogs, pizza, chips etc the next day by chewing on the opposite side of my mouth. Nothing happened!)

It's pretty straightforward: Just take the meds and if you're smoker, don't do it for a few days after to avoid the chance of a dry socket forming.

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Dentists, like other businesses need careful management.

Of course they will rip you off if you are stupid and let them.

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Anyone have insight on the dental amalgam fillings? I have a few from when I was a kid, and a few sources mentioned that I should get them removed because of the mercury.

Never have any teeth problems, and have not been to the dentist for about a decade.

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(01-04-2017 10:24 AM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  Anyone have insight on the dental amalgam fillings? I have a few from when I was a kid, and a few sources mentioned that I should get them removed because of the mercury.

Never have any teeth problems, and have not been to the dentist for about a decade.

There are a lot of conspiracy theorists on this board who will tell you about the evils of amalgam, but there are no credible studies linking these types of restorations to any disease. They have been used for over 100 years with no ill effects, and many can last for decades. Of course, they are not esthetically pleasing and have now mostly been replaced by composite resins. The only evidence of harmful mercury escaping from an amalgam restoration is when they are removed with a dental handpiece, with all of the water and air blowing up vapors and debris, so it's best to leave them alone.

In fact, speaking about dentistry as a scam, many years back some dentists got into trouble by telling patients that amalgam restorations were unhealthy and should be removed, again, just as a way to generate more income.

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(01-03-2017 06:07 PM)Goldin Boy Wrote:  

(01-02-2017 09:02 PM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  Speak of the devil, I'm getting all four wisdom teeth pulled out at 6am tomorrow morning. For anyone who has gone through it, any tips as to what food is best to eat? I'm thinking lots of applesauce and soup. For the dental professionals amongst us, any further advice other than to get lots of rest and take the pain meds the surgeon will hand out?

Had wisdom teeth impacted below the gum line(a little more complicated than a regular extraction).

But yeah my oral surgeon suggested the same as you said soup, applesauce, gelatin, oatmeal, and pudding. (I didn't give a fuck so I was eating hot dogs, pizza, chips etc the next day by chewing on the opposite side of my mouth. Nothing happened!)

It's pretty straightforward: Just take the meds and if you're smoker, don't do it for a few days after to avoid the chance of a dry socket forming.

Yes, avoid suction- straws, cigarettes, anything generating negative pressure in your mouth, because that might dislodge the clot leading to alveolar osteitis (dry socket) which is exquisitely painful and very difficult to treat.

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@stirFry - how often are dental x-rays necessary?

My dentist has been really aggressive the last few years with trying to get me to do x-Rays every time I'm in there(for like an extra $300). I did em a few years ago and I feel like within six months they were pressing me again.

I kept putting it off the last couple years, and my hygentist at that office just retired.

The last appointment I had was actually her last day-about 6-7 months ago- she told me secretly(while the dentist/owner wasn't around) that they'll be raising prices again (like fifth time in 4 years, and also shortening visits from 1 hour to like 40 minutes. As a way of getting them off my ass I told em I had another place to get x-Rays that was cheaper -which is true. She said get them at the other place. And then basically told me they were getting really greedy and it wouldn't be a bad idea to go elsewhere if I have someone decent.

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(01-04-2017 11:50 AM)Stirfry Wrote:  Yes, avoid suction- straws, cigarettes, anything generating negative pressure in your mouth, because that might dislodge the clot leading to alveolar osteitis (dry socket) which is exquisitely painful and very difficult to treat.

Nothing gets one over their last dentist like the next dentist

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I like the car (oil) analogy for dentists, but don't want to go too far with it. As an anecdote, I'd pretty much go every few years for a teeth cleaning, it's probably been 4 years since I last went, but at that time (and the year before, the first time I went in probably 4 also) the guy (cool guy) was basically like, your teeth are fine, super healthy. They are all malaligned (just the bottom row though who cares you can't see them) because I thought as a kid that ortho was also a scam that rich kids got for cosmetics, though the claim was that it was good for you too; it was a social arms race, let's be frank. My parents were cool with joining in the "conspiracy" theory because they also didn't want to pay 5k for nothing. Having "perfect teeth" right now wouldn't make literally any difference. The only problem I ever had with a girls teeth that I didn't like looking at was the chiclet teeth where either the teeth are small or the gums are big. Ugh

As an MD, a lot of stuff gets treated also as making sure everything is ok, just like Emergency visits. The culture became "get it checked out" ... which is basically a huge waste of money to be 100% sure nothing is "wrong" even though if an abnormality is found the typical treatment is conservative.

A wealthy, consumer society will often have these "problems" especially as advances obviate the treatments, at some point.

QUESTION:

Is the Sonicare truly as good as a cleaning? I could buy this, and might just do it, since I can't ever find priority time to get a "cleaning" even though I have "insurance".

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I hope not. I have chipped tooth and I hoping the dentist can make it look normal.

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Reptiles continuously replace teeth and we evolved from reptiles, so clearly we must have some regrowth mechanism. Ive been surprised how we actually regularly release and regrow collagen and bone mineral. The bone mineral is used to fight acid created during exercise. The is a continuous process you can tell someones age by how well their skull plates have mended back together.

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Just wanted to post a post-op on the wisdom teeth removal:

It hurt, probably a 3 or 4 out of 10 for the pain scale at most. Everyone is a little bit different. Apparently my roots weren't as deep as some. After about 10 days, most of the swelling and pain have gone away. Soft foods and warm water/drinks are a must.

Another issue which I don't see being discussed is how people will often have coffee or wine, which is acidic, then going hours without brushing your teeth. I think proximity of time to when you've eaten or drank something (especially acidic or sugary) is super important.

Question regarding toothpaste: Fluoride has been hyped for a long time as important for oral health. I'm skeptical about ingesting (even in nominal amounts) chemicals that don't need to be in my body. They even say on the toothpaste, if you swallow a massive amount of it, call a poison control center! Why on earth would something that is purported inert be dangerous in large quantities? It defies reason. The bottom line is, I think a lot in the dental profession don't want to admit they haven't done the due diligence on fluoride's downsides. Admitting their mistake would make them all look very sheepish for plugging something for so long without critical inquiry. Doctor's used to promote cigarettes for women to calm them down during pregnancy. Finally they saw the light. Fluoride strikes me as a similar issue. Countries have taken strides to get rid of it, including Germany, Finland, Japan, Netherlands, Sweden, Switzerland, and Israel. Not exactly a bunch of science backwaters in that group.

The question naturally that arises, what to use as an alternative toothpaste?

Baking soda? Coconut oil? Something else? I'd like to hear what non-fluoridated toothpastes you guys are using, or making on your own. Have you noticed any difference in tooth decay/cavities?

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(01-24-2017 01:38 PM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  Just wanted to post a post-op on the wisdom teeth removal:

It hurt, probably a 3 or 4 out of 10 for the pain scale at most. Everyone is a little bit different. Apparently my roots weren't as deep as some. After about 10 days, most of the swelling and pain have gone away. Soft foods and warm water/drinks are a must.

Another issue which I don't see being discussed is how people will often have coffee or wine, which is acidic, then going hours without brushing your teeth. I think proximity of time to when you've eaten or drank something (especially acidic or sugary) is super important.

Question regarding toothpaste: Fluoride has been hyped for a long time as important for oral health. I'm skeptical about ingesting (even in nominal amounts) chemicals that don't need to be in my body. They even say on the toothpaste, if you swallow a massive amount of it, call a poison control center! Why on earth would something that is purported inert be dangerous in large quantities? It defies reason. The bottom line is, I think a lot in the dental profession don't want to admit they haven't done the due diligence on fluoride's downsides. Admitting their mistake would make them all look very sheepish for plugging something for so long without critical inquiry. Doctor's used to promote cigarettes for women to calm them down during pregnancy. Finally they saw the light. Fluoride strikes me as a similar issue. Countries have taken strides to get rid of it, including Germany, Finland, Japan, Netherlands, Sweden, Switzerland, and Israel. Not exactly a bunch of science backwaters in that group.

The question naturally that arises, what to use as an alternative toothpaste?

Baking soda? Coconut oil? Something else? I'd like to hear what non-fluoridated toothpastes you guys are using, or making on your own. Have you noticed any difference in tooth decay/cavities?

Flouride free toothpaste of course!

I use Tom's of Maine. It's got a baking soda base which I could probably make on my own, but i'm too lazy.

With that said, I still highly recommend you keep a flouride remineralization mouth wash with you. After a while, I would notice my teeth felt brittle. I have an off brand flouride remineralization mouth wash that does the trick. I do it once a week to avoid that off feeling in my mouth. Just look around a drug store for it.

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Glad everything went well John. Just remembered having my teeth removed about 15 years ago and realised I drank all my food through a straw.... Oops. Didn't get dry socket though.

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(01-24-2017 02:53 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 01:38 PM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  Just wanted to post a post-op on the wisdom teeth removal:

It hurt, probably a 3 or 4 out of 10 for the pain scale at most. Everyone is a little bit different. Apparently my roots weren't as deep as some. After about 10 days, most of the swelling and pain have gone away. Soft foods and warm water/drinks are a must.

Another issue which I don't see being discussed is how people will often have coffee or wine, which is acidic, then going hours without brushing your teeth. I think proximity of time to when you've eaten or drank something (especially acidic or sugary) is super important.

Question regarding toothpaste: Fluoride has been hyped for a long time as important for oral health. I'm skeptical about ingesting (even in nominal amounts) chemicals that don't need to be in my body. They even say on the toothpaste, if you swallow a massive amount of it, call a poison control center! Why on earth would something that is purported inert be dangerous in large quantities? It defies reason. The bottom line is, I think a lot in the dental profession don't want to admit they haven't done the due diligence on fluoride's downsides. Admitting their mistake would make them all look very sheepish for plugging something for so long without critical inquiry. Doctor's used to promote cigarettes for women to calm them down during pregnancy. Finally they saw the light. Fluoride strikes me as a similar issue. Countries have taken strides to get rid of it, including Germany, Finland, Japan, Netherlands, Sweden, Switzerland, and Israel. Not exactly a bunch of science backwaters in that group.

The question naturally that arises, what to use as an alternative toothpaste?

Baking soda? Coconut oil? Something else? I'd like to hear what non-fluoridated toothpastes you guys are using, or making on your own. Have you noticed any difference in tooth decay/cavities?

Flouride free toothpaste of course!

I use Tom's of Maine. It's got a baking soda base which I could probably make on my own, but i'm too lazy.

With that said, I still highly recommend you keep a flouride remineralization mouth wash with you. After a while, I would notice my teeth felt brittle. I have an off brand flouride remineralization mouth wash that does the trick. I do it once a week to avoid that off feeling in my mouth. Just look around a drug store for it.

The mouth is full of mucous membranes, which rapidly absorb whatever substance comes in contact with them. Even if you spit out the mouthwash, you're still taking in fluoride. I'm wondering what steps are possible to avoid the tooth loss in the first place, without using fluoride at all, if possible. Looking into Tom's of Maine. Thanks!

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I think they could be considered a scam when it comes to preventive treatment, but once there is a dental issue they actually are necessary...... unless a person would prefer to just pull the tooth that is causing them a problem

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Yes & No. To a large extent there are some NATURAL ANCIENT ways ( I can post more details if you people would like) .. to get around.

PS: Rinsing/ Gargling after any meal, Oil pulling, Herbs & Roots that are instrumental

The modern dietary habits and lifestyle are messing with gums & teeth health.. so..

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(01-27-2017 12:34 AM)xmlenigma Wrote:  Yes & No. To a large extent there are some NATURAL ANCIENT ways ( I can post more details if you people would like) .. to get around.

PS: Rinsing/ Gargling after any meal, Oil pulling, Herbs & Roots that are instrumental

The modern dietary habits and lifestyle are messing with gums & teeth health.. so..

Please, by all means, write up a datasheet on what you have. I'm sure there are several of us who are open to alternatives.

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(01-27-2017 04:08 AM)John Michael Kane Wrote:  

(01-27-2017 12:34 AM)xmlenigma Wrote:  Yes & No. To a large extent there are some NATURAL ANCIENT ways ( I can post more details if you people would like) .. to get around.

PS: Rinsing/ Gargling after any meal, Oil pulling, Herbs & Roots that are instrumental

The modern dietary habits and lifestyle are messing with gums & teeth health.. so..

Please, by all means, write up a datasheet on what you have. I'm sure there are several of us who are open to alternatives.

Here it is:

http://sustainability.stackexchange.com/a/4945/2891

Additional References:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teeth_cleaning_twig
https://yogainternational.com/article/vi...ntist-away
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3131773/

I hope more people get the benefit of nature's solutions rather than Corporate Greed chemical compositions

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If you get a filling or bonding for a chipped tooth will your tooth look like it never broke?

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Excessive (modern) dentistry, chiropractory, giving kids adderall, American University system(admin/football fields/tenure), American real estate system (agents)

There will always be plenty of dough to be made in the circle of why bother, especially in the US of A

Freakonomics covers these things pretty well overall.

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(01-27-2017 08:58 PM)Nowak Wrote:  Excessive (modern) dentistry, chiropractory, giving kids adderall, American University system(admin/football fields/tenure), American real estate system (agents)

There will always be plenty of dough to be made in the circle of why bother, especially in the US of A

Freakonomics covers these things pretty well overall.

Right on. It's sickening really, especially giving kids drugs.

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Has anyone tried that whitening gel that you put in a tray? Does it work?

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It's all sort of relative.

I had a cavity. It turned into a big cavity. Then the tooth rotted out and had to get replaced. Could have saved it by just getting the cavity filled. I was young and broke.

Do you get cavities? Do you get hard build up at the base of your gums? Then you should see a dentist.

It ain't that expensive.

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