Post: #51

(10-13-2016 02:21 PM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

(10-13-2016 11:43 AM)GreyFFM Wrote:  I don't have a view one way or the other, but it depends on context. earlier in this thread the Nephillim are discussed. That is a very specific reference. There is a brief mention of them in Genesis as being giants that are the descendants of fallen angels. I believe they are discussed in other ancient texts or gospels that were rejected by the Council of Nicea. Also, note that those fallen angles were male only and came for the sole purpose of reproducing with the daughters of Adam. Other cultures reference "angels" which brought technology and which might have been aliens. Another example is in the book Kon Tiki. The premise of his voyage was that blond haired folk came to Chile/Peru with technology, and then sailed to Polynesia; Hyerdal's hypothesis was that Polynesia was populated from South America rather than from Asia. He proved that sailing from Chile to Polynesia was possible.

Regarding this reproduction of humans and non humans, you are opening a whole new can of worms here!
I will say shortly that this motive is not just from Genesis or Book of Enoch but is found in all mythologies around the world and in actual folklore of Europeans, specifically Irish, where you have fairies/elves (non physical beings) that want human babies or even snatch men to have sex with them. Notice parallel to the myth of succubus and incubus.

I was referring to the Nephillim specifically, and pointing out that they were male angels, but other visitors might have been aliens. depends on the context.

the numerous examples in legends from diverse geographies is very interesting. I was also contrasting a motive that was selfish for the visitor with the more common motive of bestowing technology.

Post: #52

Yes, civilization is far older and our history much richer (and stranger) than the mainstream propagandists would have us believe. This has been a passion of mine for decades. So many great posts and references here, kudos for the links on the South African megalithic sites. Also be sure to watch 'Forbidden Archaeology', just paradigm-shattering. The artificial metal spheres found in billion year old rock (with larger analogs on the surface) really make you scratch your head.

Have been following Graham Hancock for a few years respect his brilliant and tenacious approach to authentic history. 'Supernatural' was a fascinating read and there are many others as already mentioned. I met the warm and brilliant Dr. Robert Schoch, professor at Boston U, who gave a presentation on the theme of SIDA (solar induced dark age). He makes a strong case for solar outbursts being a likely cause for the world-wide cataclysms noted in geological and in anecdotal evidence at the end of the Younger Dryas. His book on this topic is 'Forgotten Civilization: The Role of Solar Outbursts in Our Past and Future.'


There's another talk / interview which I just found today but haven't yet watched:


As it relates to the destruction of Atlantis-in-the-eastern Atlantic (which more recent evidence suggests at least one outpost off the coast of north Africa) there would have been a double whammy of a) large vertical shifts in the position of the earth's crust as the weight of ice was released across North America and Europe with a rebounding and submergence of the crust farther away, plus b) massive pulses of water filling the oceans adding to the carnage. Changes of many hundreds or even a thousand+ feet of relative sea level are possible so washing away of previous structure seem very likely especially if not insulated by nearby land masses. It seems there's evidence for multiple Atlantean settlements not merely one (Tampa Florida and the Florida panhandle has very unique geography that one investigator makes a good case as a potential Atlantean state, along with many throughout Central and South America).

My studies suggest Lemuria existed predominantly in the area currently known as Indonesia / Polynesia but likely spread its influence as did Atlantis but perhaps less aggressively. The megalithic architecture and statuary between Easter Island, Gunung Padang, and Gobekli Tepe suggest a common source. How Atlantis and Lemuria related to each other is naturally a subject of speculation, but my sense is both groups broke off from a central group related to the fallen angels / whoever brought humans to this planet or created us here... I'm curious about recommended sources on this subject.

<drift> There's another video I recommend those stout of spirit called 'Is the human race a resource?' It's a sobering and I well-reasoned take on the phenomenon of UFOs and alien abductions, of which the Disclosure Project (which I initially was excited about) I believe is unfortunately offering partial or dis-information about. This video is a good step in exposure to a deeper part of any extra-terrestrial agenda and also calls out the 'new age' (favorite pastime of many liberals) as being duped into the control system.

The correlation of encountering elves/fairies/aliens/angels/divine beings during abduction experiences and revealed under hypnotic regression suggest cunning psychic manipulation by agents who don't want to be exposed. We'd do well to remain vigilant and guard our thoughts and behaviors. Those discussing globalists and also open to diving past the surface may appreciate some of the information in this video, as it points to darker forces at work in controlling those 'humans.'


People of strong heart and sound spirit need to stand in solidarity to resist. I am a big proponent of standing on your own two feet and am making a concerted effort to recognize and release any kind of addiction or habitual pattern. We can all truly wake up to our fullest potential and that is a key teaching of many ancient civilizations. Human beings are not meant to be dumbed-down, drugged (legal or illegal), and decrepit. The thread I'm working on regarding decision-making and human design/Gene Keys will help support self-realization and embodiment of our true potential as Spirit engaged in the play of being human.</drift>

What I find fascinating about the SIDA/solar outburst theory is the evidence of vitrification (burning) of the earth and the tie-in with shapes found in petroglyphs around the world being recognized by a plasma physicist as plasma discharge. The resulting synchrotron radiation especially from intense plasma would prompt people to get off the surface and out of the open. This helps explain the reason for cave structures (often vast and well-ventilated) which would be useless against an invading human horde but would offer protection again intense solar radiation. The fact of huge number of species going extinct at the end of the last ice age add support for the SIDA theory.

Post: #53

(11-18-2016 10:13 PM)Truth Tiger Wrote:  The correlation of encountering elves/fairies/aliens/angels/divine beings during abduction experiences and revealed under hypnotic regression suggest cunning psychic manipulation by agents who don't want to be exposed. We'd do well to remain vigilant and guard our thoughts and behaviors. Those discussing globalists and also open to diving past the surface may appreciate some of the information in this video, as it points to darker forces at work in controlling those 'humans.'

Practically all abduction theories, UFO theories and lizards/greys theories are part of disinfo campaign and mass hypnosis.
What agents you refer to? Human ones?

Post: #54

(11-18-2016 10:13 PM)Truth Tiger Wrote:  How Atlantis and Lemuria related to each other is naturally a subject of speculation, but my sense is both groups broke off from a central group related to the fallen angels / whoever brought humans to this planet or created us here... I'm curious about recommended sources on this subject.

Semir Osmanagić, proponent of Bosnian Pyramids theory, wrote a lot about Lemuria and Atlantis and suggested they could have existed at the same time. They probably had contact with each other, some suggest war, but that is speculation.

I personally believe in Atlantis and Lemuria as world wide civilizations aka British Empire which originated from the specific locations (Pacific/Atlantic) and spread through nomadic life, exploration and war throughout the world and built all these beautiful monuments.
I don't necessary believe in Atlantis and Lemuria as huge continents which are secluded and populated with superior humanoids to all others around them at that time.

Also questions arise what kind of race were these two groups, what kind of life they lived and did other groups around the world regard them as "gods" or maybe just wealthy tribes that are potentially dangerous to them.
I am curious and yet to find answer that is satisfying and not "they had nuclear weapons and flew in saucers while others had stone spears".

Post: #55

You need to watch the third movie I included in my post.

Post: #56

I'm just now coming across Graham Hancock's material thanks to Joe Rogan's podcasts. Absolutely fascinating stuff. I don't know that he's got it all figured out, but it seems likely that he's got his finger on the truth with his hypothesis that civilization is much older than we've been taught.

What I haven't seen talked about much in relation to his catastrophic theories about the Younger Dryas event is the fairly recent discovery of large volumes of water deep below the Earth's surface, in the mantle. I can't shake the idea that there's some relation between this and ancient flood narratives, along with Hancock's brand of catastrophism.

It feels like a lot of the pieces are in place to construct some sort of comprehensive picture that will synchronize things that seem increasingly related - Atlantis and other mythic lost civilizations, megaliths at Gobeckli Tepe, Stonehenge, Polynesia, etc., ancient flood accounts, geological evidence, etc.

Post: #57

(05-27-2018 07:47 PM)HermeticAlly Wrote:  I'm just now coming across Graham Hancock's material thanks to Joe Rogan's podcasts. Absolutely fascinating stuff. I don't know that he's got it all figured out, but it seems likely that he's got his finger on the truth with his hypothesis that civilization is much older than we've been taught.

What I haven't seen talked about much in relation to his catastrophic theories about the Younger Dryas event is the fairly recent discovery of large volumes of water deep below the Earth's surface, in the mantle. I can't shake the idea that there's some relation between this and ancient flood narratives, along with Hancock's brand of catastrophism.

It feels like a lot of the pieces are in place to construct some sort of comprehensive picture that will synchronize things that seem increasingly related - Atlantis and other mythic lost civilizations, megaliths at Gobeckli Tepe, Stonehenge, Polynesia, etc., ancient flood accounts, geological evidence, etc.

Check out Rogan's one on one interviews with Randall Carlson as well. Hancock and Carlson actually did a dual interview with Rogan (#872)

Post: #58

Greetings HA. Graham is excellent and covers so many topics. Have you also seen the work of Randall Carlson? There are some great JRE's with Graham and Randall. I'd check out Michael Cremo as well, along with Lloyd Pye.

I didn't know about the water trapped in the mantle, this is an excerpt from one article (https://www.scientificamerican.com/artic...f-water/):

Quote:The diamond from Brazil confirms that the models are correct: Olivine is ringwoodite at this depth, a layer called the mantle transition zone. And it resolves a long-running debate about water in the mantle transition zone. The ringwoodite is 1.5 percent water, present not as a liquid but as hydroxide ions (oxygen and hydrogen molecules bound together). The results suggest there could be a vast store of water in the mantle transition zone, which stretches from 254 to 410 miles (410 to 660 km) deep.

"It translates into a very, very large mass of water, approaching the sort of mass of water that's present in all the world's ocean," Pearson told Live Science's Our Amazing Planet.

Plate tectonics recycles Earth's crust by pushing and pulling slabs of oceanic crust into subduction zones, where it sinks into the mantle. This crust, soaked by the ocean, ferries water into the mantle. Many of these slabs end up stuck in the mantle transition zone. "We think that a significant portion of the water in the mantle transition zone is from the emplacement of these slabs," Pearson said. "The transition zone seems to be a graveyard of subducted slabs."

The science doesn't suggest that water from a deluge filtered down to that level and I don't believe there were sudden movements to bring those water molecules suddenly upward. This is more of a gradual process, where plate subduction at the bottom of the ocean would move water molecules down while upward crustal displacement brings the hydroxide-molecule-carrying ringwoodite up where it could bind to a positively charged (hydrogen-rich) water molecule under pressure to create more ocean water. That's how I'm reading it at least. It seems a very elegant dance that happens to replenish the oceans. Though I still wonder where all the water came from in the first place unless there are geological explanations.

===

We've definitely lost multiple civilizations in the past 10,000 years and probably going back several hundred thousand years.

The comet impact hypothesis around 12,800 years ago as the cause of the Younger Dryas cooling has strong footing. The Younger Dryas cooling event ran counter to the warming trend as earth came out of the last glacial maximum and occurred very suddenly which has all the ear-marks of a catastrophe!

https://news.ku.edu/2018/01/30/new-resea...r-dinosaur

and the new papers published this year:

Part 1 - https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/ab...nalCode=jg
Part 2 - https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/ab...nalCode=jg

===

Along with the start of the Younger Dryas, which seems well-understood right now, it's very intriguing (and possibly very relevant to us now) as to how that ~1,300 year period suddenly ended. This again speaks to a large extra-terrestrial input of energy - or perhaps several. It could be a combination of Dr. Robert Schoch's solar-induced dark age (SIDA) event, of solar-generated electrical discharges through our atmosphere and across the planet which scorched the deserts and areas around the planet.

If the earth's atmosphere was robbed of ozone due to byproducts from the fires after the comet fragment impacts, that could add another cause to the rapid deaths (due to UVB damage) as well as cancers and possible mutations in the offspring of survivors. Also, if the earth's magnetosphere was in a compromised state (as we're beginning to see now with the onset of the Eddy Grand Solar Minimum due to an increasing divergence between the sun's northern and southern magnetic fields) then it's possible a series of coronal discharges from the sun could have had massive effects on the planet. Even if the magnetosphere wasn't weakened, we've already seen disruptions from massive flares - with potential for massive electrical grid disruptions.

Interesting paper talking about atmospheric effects of comet impacts (mentions Tunguska comet airburst):
https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0907/0907.1067.pdf

Quote:NOx (created by fires) destroys ozone in a well-known catalytic cycle. For Tunguska, our modeling indicates a maximum O
3 column density loss of ~3% at the 65° North latitude band, with a global average depletion of 0.25% for about a month. Our modeling would suggest no measurable UVB effect on biota as a consequence of Tunguska.

...

It is also possible use a scaling relation to estimate ozone depletion from the YD event. The scaling was determined in the energy range up to ~10^20 J and does not directly apply at much higher energies. It yields greater than 100% depletion in polar regions, and a global mean of order 30%. We can at the very least predict severe ozone depletion associated with the candidate YD comet impact over the northern hemisphere. Some likely consequences of the UVB enhancement on biota resulting from such ozone depletion are described in Melott and Thomas (2009)

My guess is that for the end of the Younger Dryas (~11,500 years ago) there may have been comet fragments impacting the earth. The heightening electrical activity could increase the amplitude of solar discharges on the earth. Think the aurora borealis and australis but MUCH bigger!

There is evidence that the Mississippi River experienced several megaflood events which correlate time-wise to the big Meltwater Pulses 1A and 1B:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meltwater_pulse_1A

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meltwater_pulse_1B

The second event, Meltwater Pulse 1B, is more closely correlated to the end of the Younger Dryas.

Some interesting quotes from here:

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/my...1a.113807/

Quote:The rapid onset of mwp-1a is pretty well documented in a variety of sources, from studies of animal and plant life worldwide to the results of data collected from numerous studies of several ice core samples collected over the last 3 decades. All of the data was collected from very well-respected sources...

'Measurements of oxygen isotopes from the GISP2 ice core suggest the end of the Younger Dryas took place over just 40 - 50 years in three discrete steps, each lasting five years. Other proxy data, such as dust concentration, and snow accumulation, suggest an even more rapid transition, requiring a ~7 °C warming in just a few years.'

'For one group of American scientists on the ice in Greenland, the "moment of truth” struck on a single day in midsummer 1992 as they analyzed a cylinder of ice, recently emerged from the drill hole, that came from the last years of the Younger Dryas. They saw an obvious change in the ice, visible within three snow layers, that is, scarcely three years. The team analyzing the ice was first excited, then sobered — their view of how climate could change had shifted irrevocably. The European team reported seeing a similar step within at most five years. "The general circulation [of the atmosphere] in the Northern Hemisphere must have shifted dramatically," Dansgaard’s group eventually concluded. Oceanographers soon confirmed that the abrupt changes seen in Greenland ice cores were not confined to Greenland alone. Later work on seabed cores from the California coast to the Arabian Sea, and on chemical changes recorded in cave stalagmites from Switzerland to China, confirmed that the oscillations found in the Greenland ice had been felt throughout the Northern Hemisphere. References: Dansgaard et al. (1989); increasingly abrupt changes were seen on further study, Johnsen et al. (1992); Grootes et al. (1993); jumps of Greenland snow accumulation "possibly in one to three years" were reported by Alley et al. (1993), see also Mayewski (1993); five-year steps: Taylor et al. (1997); changes in dust had been noted, indicating at least continental scope for the change, and a Younger Dryas temperature step in less than a decade was found to be hemisphere-wide since methane gas changed as well: Severinghaus et al. (1998). Good histories are Alley (2000) and Cox, (2005), ch. 8'

'There was a massive flood of the river, in which water levels rose 165 feet and flooded Wisconsin, at about 14,300 years ago. Of special interest to this discussion is the fact that the waters were so rapid that they caused severe erosion across the entire flood plain; the initial flood washed away silt to a depth of 50 feet. Reference: Geological Society of America: Abstract from research paper #184-13 by James Knox, professor of Geography, Univ. of Wisconsin-Madison'

'A 1961 study mentioned in passing that at one location in Wisconsin, the transition from glacial-period pines to oak trees had only taken about 100 years. Reference: West, R.G. (1961).

"Late- and Postglacial Vegetational History in Wisconsin, Particularly Changes Associated with the Valders Readvance." American J. Science 259: 766-83."

'Emiliani published in 1975 of some deep-sea cores from the Gulf of Mexico. Thanks to unusually clear and distinct layers of silt, he found evidence of a remarkable event around 11,600 years ago: a rise of sea level at a rate of meters per decade. *Reference: *Emiliani, Cesare, et al. (1975). "Paleoclimatological Analysis of Late Quaternary Cores Form the Northeastern Gulf of Mexico." Science 189: 1083-88.

'Dansgaard's group cut out 67,000 samples, and in each sample analyzed the ratios of oxygen isotopes. The temperature record showed what they called "violent" changes — which corresponded closely to the jumps at Camp Century. Moreover, the most prominent of the changes in their record corresponded to the Younger Dryas oscillation seen in pollen shifts all over Europe. It showed up in the ice as a swift warming interrupted by "a dramatic cooling of rather short duration, perhaps only a few hundred years. Reference: Dansgaard, W., et al. (1982). "A New Greenland Deep Ice Core." Science 218: 1273-77.'

'As ice drillers improved their techniques, making ever better measurements along their layered cores, they found a variety of large steps not only in temperature but also in the CO2 concentration. This was a great surprise to everyone. Since the gas circulates through the atmosphere in a matter of months, the steps seemed to reflect world-wide changes. Reference 1: Oeschger, Hans, et al. (1984). "Late Glacial Climate History from Ice Cores." In Climate Processes and Climate Sensitivity. (Geophysical Monograph 29, Maurice Ewing Vol. 5), edited by James E. Hansen and Taro Takahashi, pp. 299-306. Washington, DC: American Geophysical Union.

===

I'd dive into the works of Randall Carlson and Graham Hancock for these subjects, and also Dr. Robert Schoch's work although he doesn't accept the comet impact hypothesis which seems very short-sighted given the evidence.

We're starting to see some very strange electrical behaviors around the world so there is certainly a possibility that more severe disruptions are possible. Crop losses have been increased year over year. Flooding in Africa, late season snow storms in the northeast, delayed crop planting in the upper Midwest. We're entering into a Grand Solar Minimum which has serious implications and is NOT being covered widely in the media.

I do love discovering more about the origins of human history, but catastrophes are part of human history too. It's crucial that we as red pill men become aware that major changes are taking place on earth due to changes inside the sun. Getting more self-sufficient is very important. That needs to be another thread which apparently I'll need to start.

Post: #59

I think about this kind of thing a lot. Here is some of my thinking on ancient unknown civilizations:

-Any advance that is found in the archeological record always has one find that is earlier than all the rest. However, the real date when that phenomena occurred is always earlier than our earliest archeological record. This must be true.
-Any of these advances that occurred before they were found in the archeological record probably were invented numerous times in various places, but just didn't work out. They weren't effective enough, or that people got raided by nearby nomadic peoples, or the culture just failed (like the Mayans or the people at Mesa Verde in the SW United States)
-If you look at various key technologies, many of them are estimated to date back 20,000 years or more, including building construction, textiles, pottery, domestication of the dog, boats, and many other technologies. These combined to allow a fairly sophisticated standard of living going back a lot longer than you'd think.

It's said that until agriculture, people were all nomadic. However, I believe many fixed site communities must have existed. It's known that trading goes very far back. Sites with salt, or high quality obsidian or flint for stone tools, or good fishing were likely to have had villages. It seems inevitable that some of these villages must have flourished even 20,000 years ago. They may have only flourished a few 100 years, and then they declined, but there must have been fair number of these short term towns through the years across the old world from China to Europe. As many have noted, many of these would have been along coastal regions that are now under the oceans.

As for agriculture, I think it would have been obvious to the Paleolithic humans that seeds turn into plants, and that you could plant seeds to grow more of the good plants. However, this was before domesticated strains of these plants existed, and even though some towns may have existed at resource rich sites, most people still were nomadic. I imagine the combination of low-yield undomesticated plants and mostly nomadic populations meant that agriculture was impractical long after the basic concept was known.

However, where did the domesticated strains of grain, fruits, and vegetables come from? My guess is that some people attempted to grow wild plants in some times and places, but it wasn't successful enough to catch on. The people might have grown a crop for 100 years, but then they got soft and raiders came and killed them. Agriculture was probably known for 10,000 years before it succeeded, but people thought it was stupid and dangerous, because everybody who has ever tried it ended up getting destroyed. Eventually better and better strains of agricultural crops were developed from 1000's of years of local, small scale attempts, and "suddenly" the agricultural revolution occurred.

I imagine in the ancient world before the last small burst of glaciation in the Younger Dryas, there were chiefdoms scattered across the old world, with active trading between them. There must have been places making textiles, pottery, obsidian spears and knives, and high quality stone axes. They must have traded premium furs, and other specialty and luxury goods. This would have been small scale by modern standards, but I bet there were local populations that spoke the same language and had a central town with a big chief and a central ceremonial place, probably on a river or sea coast for trading. I think these kind of locally developed chiefdoms have been occurring for 20,000 years or more, but they never got big enough to leave a permanent archeological record, and never lasted more than a few 100 years, before they declined or were overrun. Most people still would have been nomadic, but a network of these permanent villages seems likely to have existed along trading routes in places with unusually plentiful resources.

Another thing I've noted is how close the New World peoples were technologically to the Old World. On the one hand, the Europeans were far more advanced than the New World peoples, and conquered them with almost absurd ease. On the other hand, the New World peoples had agriculture and large scale civilizations. They had writing. They were only a few hundred years into their own bronze age, so they were about 3000 years behind the old world. However, they were completely isolated. Even if Polynesians or some other ancient peoples came to the new world, these were tenuous contacts at best with the old world. The New World cultures developed these technologies in isolation from the Old World, with only a few 1000 years difference between them. That's not very long compared to the long span of human prehistory.

My theory on this is that when humans crossed the Bering Strait into the New World 12-15,000 years ago, they carried the cultural knowledge of humanity at that time. Therefore, humans in the Old World and New World were roughly equal technologically in 12,000 BC. Given their isolation and small initial numbers, it's no surprise that development was slower in the New World than in the Old World. However, I think the people coming to the New World already had the possibility of agriculture and larger scale permanent communities in their cultural traditions. They passed these traditions down as they spread across North and South America, and when their numbers had increased enough, they started practicing agriculture and building towns. Just as it was in the old world, there must have been a period of gradual small scale domestication of crop plants before the agriculture really took hold. Likewise, I think a lot of mythological themes were carried across the Bering strait at that time and were passed down through the generations.

All of this is only speculation, but I think it seems very likely, based on the three principles I listed at the top of my post. However, if you put this all together, you can imagine traveling the ancient world as a trader, who comes from a port town with a long tradition of trading. You can imagine traveling to other trading centers scattered days and weeks apart, and coming into town with your shipment of fine obsidian, polished beads, fine furs, and other trade goods, and in turn picking up a load of whatever goods are available in that town.

You can imagine having a troubadour of sorts in your ship's complement, who swaps stories and epic songs with the locals. When you arrive at the village you're trading at, they'd probably declare a festival, and have a big pow wow at their ceremonial site. You could probably score with one of the young village girls, drink some fermented drink, and have a grand old time (making sure your men are still prepared against a sudden ambush, of course).

You can imagine being the chief of a tribe that controls 2-3 high value resources that happen to be close together, and growing your small village into a bigger town, such that you can start to keep a harem, live in a big house, and have the first choice of all the best food and other goods. Your village would have the strongest men with the best obsidian tipped spears, so you could go raid nearby nomadic tribes, kill the men, take their women and their weapons, tools, boats, etc., and settle your own people to roam the new hunting grounds. Good times!

Things like this must have happened all over the ancient world for a period of 10,000 years or more before the agricultural revolution. Even when the agricultural revolution came, that Neolithic era reached great heights of development during a period that lasted another 4000 years or so, until the times we know about, with the Sumerians, Egyptians, etc. It must have been a nasty, brutish and short life for most people, but for some exceptional men, it must have been like living in a modern fantasy adventure.

Post: #60

I think to address this topic we first need to know what exactly is the oldest known record of civilization?

So far I believe all humankind stems out of this. The Annuaki. Translate to "God of the Sky"

All the stories in the bible, quran, everywhere else basically about the great flood etc. Stems out of this.

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Anunnaki

There's a believe that humans are created by this alien race by taking one of earth's early inhabitants (apes) and added some of their like-ness. Not just some random mutation that suddenly make us stand out so much.

There are books about this. I only wished it backed with more mainstream scientific evidence.

Post: #61

I am entertained by the ancient aliens or lost-civilization narratives (in sort of a late-night ghost story sort of way) but in the end I don't buy into them.

There is a high associated with discovery. It's a feeling that's quite addictive. I think these narratives provide this endless tantalizing itch that can never be fully scratched because history is so sketchy before the dawn of writing, and even after, things are open to so much interpretation.

It's the fog of history that facilitates conjecture and the internet allows us to cherry-pick our chosen "experts" and ignore skeptics.

Remember that at the end of the day it really doesn't matter whether there was an Atlantis or humans are the product of alien genetic engineering. We all have to get up each day, go to work, pay bills, and wrestle with a world that is increasingly hostile to straight men. It's fun to daydream about this stuff but that's all it really amounts to, a form of escapism.

Post: #62

Heads up for those interested in this topic - Joe Rogan is going to have Robert Schoch on Thursday the 31st and they will be talking about the Sphinx being way older than mainstream science promotes.

Then on Friday, Roseanne.. *grabs popcorn*

Post: #63

I believe that civilization is much older than we think, and I believe that the events that we are experiencing now are manipulated not only by (((them))) and their partners, but also by the entities they truly serve, whether they be extradimensional or extraterrestrial. Remember, in the Talmud, the Jews say they serve not the God of the Old Testament (who they have forsaken), but entities they call "Archons".

Post: #64

Thanks GM. I saw this snip from that podcast today -

Post: #65

Civilization is relatively new thing.

Humanity and Human Culture however - they are very ancient.

A Civilization and a Cultural society are the opposites of each other if you get what I mean.

Post: #66

What defines civilisation? The written language? Calendars? Cities?

Post: #67

Here's Robert Schoch on the Joe Rogan show:





I am completely mind blown.

A must-watch for everyone in this thread.

Post: #68

Yeah it’s a good one - I have listened to most of it.

Really interested to find out more about these extreme lightning storms caused by solar activity.

https://www.robertschoch.com/plasma_iceage.html

https://atlantisrisingmagazine.com/artic...tastrophe/

Post: #69

That was definitely my favorite Joe Rogan podcast I've ever heard. Schoch is very interesting, also doesn't come across as a crazy fringe guy like Hancock (even though I think Hancock gets a lot right.)

Post: #70

(06-10-2018 07:11 PM)HermeticAlly Wrote:  That was definitely my favorite Joe Rogan podcast I've ever heard. Schoch is very interesting, also doesn't come across as a crazy fringe guy like Hancock (even though I think Hancock gets a lot right.)

Hancock is more of an entertainer. He mixes serious non-conventional research and theories with a lot of fluff and bullshit. Unfortunately, the latter has been, IMHO, detrimental to those who have explored ideas such as the Younger Dryas impact-extinction hypothesis. Once Hancock's name gets attached to something, the idea gets dismissed by many, out of hand.

Post: #71

But than again, I would rather watch him than establishment created Egyptologists.

Post: #72

(06-04-2018 06:43 AM)Pride male Wrote:  What defines civilisation? The written language? Calendars? Cities?

I think historians would say it is writing. I agree with Mage that human cultures have existed long before civilization, and that these were often very complex, and may have included large populations and cities. They would have also had extensive knowledge that was passed down by oral tradition. Certainly this is true after the agricultural revolution, but before the development of writing, but I think it is true even before the agricultural revolution.

I think when we talk about civilization being older than we've been led to believe, we are really talking about these higher level cultures, which did not have writing, but did have a level of size and complexity far beyond what most people thing existed back then. I personally think there were large cultures going back 20,000 years or more with at least some fixed site villages or towns that sat on trade routes and that had ceremonial centers serving the people of that culture that lived in the larger region. I assume most people in this pre-agricultural time were still nomadic hunger gatherers, but I expect there were some fixed site villages, that were scattered at wide intervals. Nothing fancy most of the time, but I bet a few did get large for a few centuries, and perhaps some got very large.

Post: #73

(06-04-2018 06:43 AM)Pride male Wrote:  What defines civilisation? The written language? Calendars? Cities?

Its simply an advanced stage of social development and organization.

If you look at some civilizations, like the Inca, they do not appear to have written languages yet had a vast empire that was capable of building huge networks of paved trails, Machu Pichu, etc. This required tremendous social organizaiton.

Yet, relative to modern times, they are fairly uncivilized. Did not have the wheel, most metalls, written language, plumbing, etc. Basically a stone age culture, but highly organized.

Post: #74

^I dont think the Mayans and Incas built that stuff. Why dont Mexicans built stuff anymore, what happened? How can cannibals understna astronomy and so forth? If you watch Inca tours with Brien Foerster, he explains why the Inca were not responsible for that civilisation.

Post: #75

(06-11-2018 02:01 PM)Pride male Wrote:  ^I dont think the Mayans and Incas built that stuff. Why dont Mexicans built stuff anymore, what happened? How can cannibals understna astronomy and so forth? If you watch Inca tours with Brien Foerster, he explains why the Inca were not responsible for that civilisation.

Because melonheads built them.

Regarding the Maya, their fall was "multi-varied" and is still not understood. Following studies carried out in the 1980s, the prevailing hypothesis seized upon by environmentalists was that the Maya practiced too much deforestation, thereby causing the land to warm up, which caused less rain (exacerbating a severe drought they were already in), and even causing landslides. However, research carried out at Copan on pollen levels shows that forest density there increased during the Late Classical Period (600-900 AD).

Maya society was extremely stratified; its writing system was so hard to read that only the ruling class could do so, and only artists could actually write/draw it. Only the ruling class understood astronomy and serious architecture too. Unlike Eric Thompson's theory (colored by his own bias) of the Maya as peaceful astronomers, they were warlike and their city-states had both allies and enemies, with regicide being common. Wall paintings in Yaxchilan and others bear witness to this. Any sort of peasant unrest and revolt, resulting in the death of the ruling class, would mean a collapse of classical Southern Lowland Maya civilization. The peasantry was simply too uneducated to continue even a semblance of the civilization without the elite class.

There is no accepted theory for the decline, and it wasn't a complete disappearance overnight, hence the movement of power from the lowlands to northern Yucatan and the flourishing civilization there at such centers as Chichen Itza, Uxmal, Tulum, etc. However, it was a different civilization which seems to have been either intermarried or invaded by the Toltecs of Central Mexico, one which held on until the arrival of the Spanish.

If we're to discredit theories of Atlanteans or aliens, I would say that unrest, caused by food shortages, lead to massive revolts in the Southern Lowland Maya civilization, resulting in the death of the ruling class. All the rituals and sacrifices would have done nothing in the face of drought, which would have led to dying populations, unrest, and finally, bloody coups.

For evidence of this, look no further than at the millions of modern Maya living in southern Mexico and Guatemala who carry Maya DNA, some of it unmixed, but none of the intelligence of their fore bearers. It would be analogous to bus drivers and strippers killing off all smart people and trying to take over a country. Not too different from what you see in Venezuela at the moment.