Post: #26

(04-13-2016 11:19 AM)offthereservation Wrote:  

(04-13-2016 07:07 AM)Scaro066 Wrote:  Wow. Bravo bravo. haha. It is all about the research my friend.

Right. Researching opinions is not the same as researching a business opportunity.

This is just about you letting go of $xx,xxx or $xxx,xxx USD, nothing more. That's what you are not seeing. You got selected and sized up and chosen for this special opportunity to wire money out.

You have no details, no copy of a lease, no books, no idea whether the local authorities will transfer "licenses" to you, no approval from the building or land owner, no verification the one selling to you is actually the owner, no written proposal of what is and what is not included, no information on what they spend on costs of inventory and labor, etc. Right? Your only "due diligence" is on web forums and not in the local tax offices in Quintana Roo. Do you want a simple way out? Ask your friend for the address of the local tax office and tell him you will be coming down to do some research. "My friend you don't need to do that, don't you trust me?"

Have you made a good faith deposit yet? Has the guy provided you wiring instructions? Go ahead and get it over with and send the money because you have a real strong desire to lower your bank account balances it seems.

OR spend the same money on an income producing property in your area, so you feel like you have invested.

OR just blow the money traveling

OR do an actual search for bars for sale in jurisdictions with the rule of law where your investment can be protected and you understand the lay of the land and can sell it later. (For example Puerto Rico, which has the world's greatest bargains right now, you could buy a beach bar there and you are protected under real law.)

OR OR OR...

What to me it sounds like you are doing is falling for the classic con. How do I know? Because it is the only bar you are looking at and you described it yourself as if you were the con man. The old tired man, the cheap price, the sudden friendship with the sacrificial owner who will help you after, the lack of any details. Con comes from confidence. You exude in your story total confidence in this guy which is scary to say the least.

Considering all your options would mean doing a search of available bars in the area at the least. But you considering no other options, which means you are being driven 100% by your emotion. You are not researching, you are looking for anyone who will tell you what you want to hear. Your other forums seem much more supportive so focus there if you want.

I am all for lessons learned by trying things and many legit opportunities do end up being losers. But the worst sting of all is to simply be scammed. Its a lesson that never feels like it was worth it because you didn't learn anything in the process except that there are scumbags out there that will steal from you.

I appreciate you looking out for me. I don't want to throw too many details online, I haven't given all the details. I did most if not all the necessary research before posting to the forums. I am not relying on strangers on the internet. I just want a view from an outside perceptive. Of course I am not making a deposit yet until I am 100% sure and have revised all papers with another person from an outside party. It is interesting to hear other people's thoughts. What would other people do if they were my age for example.

Many do not take big risks like this, mainly because one cannot afford to or they feel comfortable with their life as is. I am all for trying different realities, break the barrier of what society wants us to believe, getting out of the box.

Post: #27

Man, it sounds like you are hell-bent on doing this even though everyone is telling you it is not the greatest idea. If you are going to move forward with it anyway, please have an exploratory period where you work for the bar and observe the current owner while having the sole option but not the obligation to buy the business. Buy a ticket and spend a month or so down there doing this. This money spent will be a good investment as you will either be 1)training yourself for the future job you purchased or you will be 2)spending a fraction of what you would have to realize that it makes sense to use the money on other opportunities.

Can you share the amount of the investment? That may help us in guiding you toward less riskier or straight up better uses of the money.

Post: #28

(04-13-2016 11:42 AM)texas Wrote:  Man, it sounds like you are hell-bent on doing this even though everyone is telling you it is not the greatest idea. If you are going to move forward with it anyway, please have an exploratory period where you work for the bar and observe the current owner while having the sole option but not the obligation to buy the business. Buy a ticket and spend a month or so down there doing this. This money spent will be a good investment as you will either be 1)training yourself for the future job you purchased or you will be 2)spending a fraction of what you would have to realize that it makes sense to use the money on other opportunities.

Can you share the amount of the investment? That may help us in guiding you toward less riskier or straight up better uses of the money.

Yes that is the smartest way to determine if a business is worth it. Well if it helps about 27k.

Post: #29

Why don't you just start your own bar. Might be cheaper. Who knows. But the odds are stacked against you for numerous reasons detailed by the fine men of this forum.

So if you can do it cheaper at least you lose less.

There was someone looking to start a bar in Poland or something. Plenty of options other than this one.

Are you that attracted to Mexico? Just sounds like you want to get out.

One last comment and I think most would agree, rarely have things gone well when we have been so eager, so desperate to do something. And it is easy for the other side to manipulate you once they sense it. "I have someone else who is interested" blah blah blah. You get sold on the dream, you rarely get the Dream.

Whatever you do. Be good enough to let us know what you decided to do and how it goes. So many dudes come here tapping the wisdom of the forum and then don't have the decency to share how it went. It would be different if you found some super secret bar that is 100% guarantee of a ONS, I could see you not sharing that.

Post: #30

(04-13-2016 12:09 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  Why don't you just start your own bar. Might be cheaper. Who knows. But the odds are stacked against you for numerous reasons detailed by the fine men of this forum.

So if you can do it cheaper at least you lose less.

There was someone looking to start a bar in Poland or something. Plenty of options other than this one.

Are you that attracted to Mexico? Just sounds like you want to get out.

One last comment and I think most would agree, rarely have things gone well when we have been so eager, so desperate to do something. And it is easy for the other side to manipulate you once they sense it. "I have someone else who is interested" blah blah blah. You get sold on the dream, you rarely get the Dream.

Whatever you do. Be good enough to let us know what you decided to do and how it goes. So many dudes come here tapping the wisdom of the forum and then don't have the decency to share how it went. It would be different if you found some super secret bar that is 100% guarantee of a ONS, I could see you not sharing that.

Doesn't that require more money? Regardless if I do happen to take this opportunity. I do want to report back my experience, I am willing to take a bullet for the team since I am not able to find similar threads like these.

Post: #31

OP, here is another bar opportunity in Latin America from a RVF member. The investment is less, although having been to both places, there is much more action in Cancún. This could be a good stepping stone with a lower cost of investment and less likelihood of getting raped by the cartel tax if you can forfeit some of the glamour.

/thread-53018.html

If the Cancún option is the one for you after doing the test run, take the great Kona's advice and get him to finance a portion of it so you're not all-in at once. His consideration of this will also give you hint as to whether he is shopping it around to others or what is up (ie: he may say he has another all cash buyer so he won't seller finance, he may need an immediate 10k for family medical procedure but the rest can be in payments, etc). "Being tired" is a very vague reason to sell a business that generates money unless he is very old and has no family members to pass it along to. Ask him exactly why he is selling and why he needs the money.

Remember, you have the cash and he has the desire to sell; You have all the power. Make him know that you are not afraid to walk away and take it a step further and say you are comparing it to other investment opportunities and the alternatives seem to have better return/offer financing/cost less/whatever.

Post: #32

(04-13-2016 12:54 PM)texas Wrote:  OP, here is another bar opportunity in Latin America from a RVF member. The investment is less, although having been to both places, there is much more action in Cancún. This could be a good stepping stone with a lower cost of investment and less likelihood of getting raped by the cartel tax if you can forfeit some of the glamour.

/thread-53018.html

If the Cancún option is the one for you after doing the test run, take the great Kona's advice and get him to finance a portion of it so you're not all-in at once. His consideration of this will also give you hint as to whether he is shopping it around to others or what is up (ie: he may say he has another all cash buyer so he won't seller finance, he may need an immediate 10k for family medical procedure but the rest can be in payments, etc). "Being tired" is a very vague reason to sell a business that generates money unless he is very old and has no family members to pass it along to. Ask him exactly why he is selling and why he needs the money.

Remember, you have the cash and he has the desire to sell; You have all the power. Make him know that you are not afraid to walk away and take it a step further and say you are comparing it to other investment opportunities and the alternatives seem to have better return/offer financing/cost less/whatever.

good call texas

and although ecuador isnt perfect, i personally would rather invest in and live in ecuador 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 (a quintillion) times more than in quintana roo.

Post: #33

(04-13-2016 12:54 PM)texas Wrote:  OP, here is another bar opportunity in Latin America from a RVF member. The investment is less, although having been to both places, there is much more action in Cancún. This could be a good stepping stone with a lower cost of investment and less likelihood of getting raped by the cartel tax if you can forfeit some of the glamour.

/thread-53018.html

If the Cancún option is the one for you after doing the test run, take the great Kona's advice and get him to finance a portion of it so you're not all-in at once. His consideration of this will also give you hint as to whether he is shopping it around to others or what is up (ie: he may say he has another all cash buyer so he won't seller finance, he may need an immediate 10k for family medical procedure but the rest can be in payments, etc). "Being tired" is a very vague reason to sell a business that generates money unless he is very old and has no family members to pass it along to. Ask him exactly why he is selling and why he needs the money.

Remember, you have the cash and he has the desire to sell; You have all the power. Make him know that you are not afraid to walk away and take it a step further and say you are comparing it to other investment opportunities and the alternatives seem to have better return/offer financing/cost less/whatever.

Great advice and thanks for sharing the thread link. That is a pretty good price for a restaurant, but never been to el Ecuador, could be nice, I'd have to check it out. The financing part sounds smart, I'll keep it on mind when dealing with the owner.

Post: #34

(04-13-2016 12:19 PM)Scaro066 Wrote:  

(04-13-2016 12:09 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  Why don't you just start your own bar. Might be cheaper. Who knows. But the odds are stacked against you for numerous reasons detailed by the fine men of this forum.

snip

Doesn't that require more money? Regardless if I do happen to take this opportunity. I do want to report back my experience, I am willing to take a bullet for the team since I am not able to find similar threads like these.

That is where you do the work to figure it out, if it is or not.

Oftentimes, a business is sold for MORE than the cost to build it from scratch because it is being sold at multiples of revenue or as GOODWILL (asking price minus assets that can be valued (tables, etc), which is basically saying, I am selling you an established business.

Post: #35

(04-13-2016 11:56 AM)Scaro066 Wrote:  Yes that is the smartest way to determine if a business is worth it. Well if it helps about 27k.

Just do it. 27k isn't that much money and it would be a good lesson for the future on what not to do. Let's be clear, this money will be gone and you will lose it but it isn't a huge amount to lose.

To learn the same lesson it cost me $125k. Even worse, I borrowed $70k from my parents for this business. So not only did I lose my own $55k, but then I had the task of having to pay my parents back the $70k. The total amount of $125k was gone and not a penny left over. $27k is a bargain.

The good thing is that this spectacular fail taught me so many lesson that were invaluable for my future endeavors. I learned that just going in blind and hoping things will work out is stupid. I learned to evaluate opportunities, don't take the first one that comes to you, and to go out and find my own deals and investments that no one else sees. If someone is coming to you with a super deal then it isn't one. Another important lesson I learned is that even though I spectacularly fucked up I didn't give up on the idea of being entrepreneur and owning a business. Many do give up but I have business in my blood, I couldn't give up.

I took what I learned not to do and managed to make my next big move a great one. From that I was able to pay them back the original $70k they loaned me. Since then I have never had any debt.

Post: #36

I'm not sure I agree with that.

I'd much rather lose money on a business that has at least a 50/50 chance of success.

This bar is a mental idea and I reckon the OP will realise that before he goes through with it.

Post: #37

(04-14-2016 05:00 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  I'm not sure I agree with that.

I'd much rather lose money on a business that has at least a 50/50 chance of success.

This bar is a mental idea and I reckon the OP will realise that before he goes through with it.

Agree. There's "that's a long shot and you'll probably lose everything, but there's a chance you won't and you'll learn a lot either way", and then there's jumping into a ball pit filled with rabid raccoons.

Don't need more information to know this is the latter. But hey, some people need to piss on the electric fence themselves.

Post: #38

(04-14-2016 08:23 AM)Peregrine Wrote:  

(04-14-2016 05:00 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  I'm not sure I agree with that.

I'd much rather lose money on a business that has at least a 50/50 chance of success.

This bar is a mental idea and I reckon the OP will realise that before he goes through with it.

Agree. There's "that's a long shot and you'll probably lose everything, but there's a chance you won't and you'll learn a lot either way", and then there's jumping into a ball pit filled with rabid raccoons.

Don't need more information to know this is the latter. But hey, some people need to piss on the electric fence themselves.

I don't mind losing the 27k if I get a life lesson out of it. Also the way I see things there is a 60% change of success and that is being negative. The business looks like it maintains itself at least, according to numbers it makes profit. I need to make sure what the real numbers are when I go visit the business and interview the right people. The worst case scenario would be to lose money every single month, but as long that it maintains itself I am happy.

Post: #39

(04-14-2016 08:32 AM)Scaro066 Wrote:  

(04-14-2016 08:23 AM)Peregrine Wrote:  

(04-14-2016 05:00 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  I'm not sure I agree with that.

I'd much rather lose money on a business that has at least a 50/50 chance of success.

This bar is a mental idea and I reckon the OP will realise that before he goes through with it.

Agree. There's "that's a long shot and you'll probably lose everything, but there's a chance you won't and you'll learn a lot either way", and then there's jumping into a ball pit filled with rabid raccoons.

Don't need more information to know this is the latter. But hey, some people need to piss on the electric fence themselves.

I don't mind losing the 27k if I get a life lesson out of it. Also the way I see things there is a 60% change of success and that is being negative. The business looks like it maintains itself at least, according to numbers it makes profit. I need to make sure what the real numbers are when I go visit the business and interview the right people. The worst case scenario would be to lose money every single month, but as long that it maintains itself I am happy.

If you're really thinking like this then I think you may be suffering from some sort of emotional/mental problem at the moment resulting from a desperate desire to escape.

What basis do you have to consider this likely to be 60% risky?

Seriously; go take a holiday and relax. Not to Mexico...and don't take your savings with you!

Post: #40

We were all young, stubborn and stupid, let him learn his lesson. Go to Mexico my friend, go to Mexico.

Post: #41

OP should rename the thread to:

"I bet you can't convince me to drop this absolutely terrible idea!"

That would be a much closer description of the discussion here.

OP, I tried to come up with a more detailed and helpful answer, but then I remembered that you basically ignored all the good advice the forum members gave you so far. You are delusional if anything about this offer seems like a great deal to you.

Here's my advice:
Take those 27k you apparently don't care about losing.
Give it to me.
Just kidding.

Take 7k.
Go and travel.
Maybe Latin America. Maybe SEA. Maybe EE. You seem adventurous, so it might even be Africa. You'll see that 7k is a lot of money, especially in LA and SEA. Goes a veeeery long way. Use it to have the best time of your life. Do everything you ever wanted to do, live like a king, have a blast.
Didn't you say you are location independent? Might even stay if you find a place you like.
When you return, you'll be a different man. Then, and only then, you should think again about what to do with all that money that apparently grows on trees for you. I garantuee you that you'll come up with a better idea and will laugh at the silly younger version of you who wanted to throw it down a bottomless pit.

Before you leave, take the remaining 20k.
Put it into a few ETFs.
Don't think about it again until your return.
Better yet, just leave it there and don't touch it.
Let compound interest work its magic.

This way you get your life changing experience, sunshine and tropical climate to enjoy, hot, exotic girls to bang, new and interesting people to meet, new opportunities that will open up, all while retaining your freedom and flexibility, and most of your money.
At a fraction of the cost of chaining yourself to a nightlife business (!) in Mexico (!) you know nothing about (!).
It's a no-brainer, really.

Post: #42

(04-14-2016 12:19 PM)Belgrano Wrote:  OP should rename the thread to:

"I bet you can't convince me to drop this absolutely terrible idea!"

Post: #43

OP, last serious attempt to help.

It seems like you want the experience. And you just want to stop what you are currently doing for work.

How about just make a small investment into the bar. A capital infusion. By being a part owner, I bet you can get your work visa easily. Make the capital investment over several months like 5k over 6 months. This way they won't toss you out until they got all the money.

This caps your downside. You get the experience, you get your pickup angle - "I am one of the owners", etc.

Post: #44

(04-14-2016 02:15 AM)username Wrote:  

(04-13-2016 11:56 AM)Scaro066 Wrote:  Yes that is the smartest way to determine if a business is worth it. Well if it helps about 27k.

Just do it. 27k isn't that much money and it would be a good lesson for the future on what not to do. Let's be clear, this money will be gone and you will lose it but it isn't a huge amount to lose.

To learn the same lesson it cost me $125k. Even worse, I borrowed $70k from my parents for this business. So not only did I lose my own $55k, but then I had the task of having to pay my parents back the $70k. The total amount of $125k was gone and not a penny left over. $27k is a bargain.

The good thing is that this spectacular fail taught me so many lesson that were invaluable for my future endeavors. I learned that just going in blind and hoping things will work out is stupid. I learned to evaluate opportunities, don't take the first one that comes to you, and to go out and find my own deals and investments that no one else sees. If someone is coming to you with a super deal then it isn't one. Another important lesson I learned is that even though I spectacularly fucked up I didn't give up on the idea of being entrepreneur and owning a business. Many do give up but I have business in my blood, I couldn't give up.

I took what I learned not to do and managed to make my next big move a great one. From that I was able to pay them back the original $70k they loaned me. Since then I have never had any debt.

This is not good advice because his maximum risk is NOT just the cash he is putting down to buy this bar. The negatives outlined by the majority of others in this thread come about due to the unknowns of the local crime syndicates, being a foreigner (nevermind how bloody tan you think you are), having never run a business, and many others.

In short: your downside is a LOT HIGHER than the $27K you are putting down to buy this.

OP, if your goals are really:

1. Get out of the US
2. Learn about running business

Then there are millions of options available. This "bar in Mexico" idea is a terrible one.

It sounds more like your emotional desire is: easily bang Mexican girls, and you think owning a bar removes the need to actually game (it doesn't) and makes a cool story (not without ruinous risk).

If you are a software engineer, find a remote gig, and go live in Mexico and work from there. http://www.weworkremotely.com is a good option to check out. You'll get out of town for a bit, learn some Spanish, meet some women, continue earning good money, and not lose your shirt in this scam.

Post: #45

(04-14-2016 06:34 PM)Sephiroth Wrote:  Then there are millions of options available. This "bar in Mexico" idea is a terrible one.

If you bring the 27K here in $20 dollar bills you will never ever forget how fun that night was.

http://www.tootsiescabaret.com/clubfeatures.aspx

Post: #46

OP has not told us everything in sufficient detail, so we can't customize "perfect" advice for him.

Before he 'fessed up to it (quoting him: "I've lived in a third world country for 9 years and I have some non-violent criminal connections."), I was pretty sure he had "underworld" connections, because he didn't strike me as stupid, and it would be stupid indeed to invest in a bar in Cancun without such connections (or political ones, not so vast a difference...).

Anyway, as we don't know the level of interaction of OP with his "non-violent" (until some day...?) underworld friends, we can't comprehend his actual situation and perspectives. Myself, I have an idea, a mere... sniffing really, on what his "non-violent" Cancun friends might do for a living, and it changes the situation.

Post: #47

man you guys are raping me with the harsh advise, but I really appreciate for keeping it real. You guys are cool. It is also my fault for not giving a lot of details, since I don't want to give away too many personal details, but I also want opinions on different sides on the idea. I am trying to be as transparent as possible and taking into account every single reply, I am not ignoring them just entering them into the equation.

I'd like to clear some things up about the safety issue: have you guys been to Cancun? it is very safe, at least in the popular areas, crime will still happen everywhere, but I was surprised to see police officers with AK-47's patrolling the city in trucks every 15-30 minutes. About the bar: owner says never had issues with the "cartel" or have any dangerous situations, this is believable because the bar is located in a main street, there is university nearby and it is in front of the "Palacio Municipal" (Local Government Office). According to street info from a Taxi driver the dangerous spots are far away from the city, he claim you can get assaulted and robed by guys with Machetes.

My goal is really a lifestyle change, hence why this thread is in the Lifestyle area. The working remotely as a web dev has attracted me a lot.

Post: #48

The vendor is trying to sell you a bar. You need to take everything he says with a pinch of salt.

As I said on the first page, criminal gangs shake down independent bars in my British city. Britain. The epicentre of modern law and jurisprudence. A first World country with almost incorruptible policing. A country with few guns lolling about and the highest amount of CCTV in the World.

Think about that, man!

Post: #49

So OP has made up his mind.

A few research to help you build some confidence in your investment then (I own brick and mortar business myself).

1. Have you been in the place on the off peak season? did the number of transactions during that period look good? If the business can sustain itself during the lowest of the lows, you don't have to worry much on the high seasons.

2. How much of it is cash based. Have you observed the staff doing their work and figure out how you can steal from the owner? Because if you can figure out from a 15 minute observation, they sure as well can do better.

3. I think what you missed about on the maximum loss of investment is the stress you would need to endure during this whole process. If your cash flow comes up to about nett 3k USD a month, would that be worth it compared to your current job?

4. Have some thoughts about it, and prepare for the possibility that you might still have made a bad investment. I've closed more outlets than I have opened. But the ones that stayed have made me more money than I have lost. So remember, this might not be your first and last.

Post: #50

The majority of good businesses that get sold are sold to family, friends, partners or employees of the owner. Good businesses are the exception to the rule with businesses for sale on the open market. Probably less than 10%.

It is unlikely that you will find the exception to the rule when you don't have any experience in the industry. It is even more unlikely if you are a young guy with no business experience.

The low cost of this business is also a red flag. Does the owner claim to be making any money at all? I think it is more likely that he is trying to get some money for his inventory and equipment because the business is breaking even or losing money.

The OP seems to be mostly focused on "redeveloping" himself. First, that is a huge red flag that he shouldn't buy a business. Second, I don't understand why OP doesn't use his savings to take some time off to travel or move to a new location and work in his current career of software development, which ironically is one of the most in demand skills for entrepreneurs. None of this makes any sense.