Post: #26

Growing up I had a blast wrestling, camping, motorcycle riding and what not with my Dad. I am a middle kid out of 6. Dad started young. Anyway I had quite a few friends whose fathers were just too old and tired to do much of that stuff with them. Part of me wants to "grow up" with my kids and not wait until I'm over the hill to be playin with them. Now there are some advantages to waiting you have much more wisdom to impart to them but all things considered I would have kids relatively young. I think I have a good traditional minded wife and we both had fairly red pill fathers. I just have to strive for the same with my current and future kids.

Post: #27

(03-08-2016 01:55 PM)Ghost Tiger Wrote:  WRT the comments about 3:00 am diaper changes. I did that, and I've learned. It's not my job. Just like paying the bills and home security and fixing the car is not HER job. What I've learned is that, in a relationship, men and women have different jobs. Look, I'm not saying you NEVER change your kid's diaper at 3:00 am, what I'm saying is... when you do it you hit your woman with a guilt trip of precisely the same magnitude she would hit you with if she had to go out in the driveway and change her own tire. And I know you know exactly what I mean. You make her feel like LESS OF A WOMAN. I've tried this. It works. It's brutal, but it's a legal hit. In this situation you are the Denver pass rush and she's Cam Newton. It's all fair play and you owe it to your team and the fans to hit her with all you got.

I like your post but I'm curious on this, is it something you verbally told her? Is it a "I have to wake up in 4 hours to go to work and you can sleep in" type of thing?

Post: #28

(03-08-2016 03:13 PM)Teutatis Wrote:  

(03-08-2016 01:55 PM)Ghost Tiger Wrote:  WRT the comments about 3:00 am diaper changes. I did that, and I've learned. It's not my job. Just like paying the bills and home security and fixing the car is not HER job. What I've learned is that, in a relationship, men and women have different jobs. Look, I'm not saying you NEVER change your kid's diaper at 3:00 am, what I'm saying is... when you do it you hit your woman with a guilt trip of precisely the same magnitude she would hit you with if she had to go out in the driveway and change her own tire. And I know you know exactly what I mean. You make her feel like LESS OF A WOMAN. I've tried this. It works. It's brutal, but it's a legal hit. In this situation you are the Denver pass rush and she's Cam Newton. It's all fair play and you owe it to your team and the fans to hit her with all you got.

I like your post but I'm curious on this, is it something you verbally told her? Is it a "I have to wake up in 4 hours to go to work and you can sleep in" type of thing?

No. It was more like a "Man, it sure would be nice to have a REAL woman for a wife who was a GOOD mother to my kids so I could focus on what I have to do as the MAN in the house" type of thing. It's a "pack your bags, we're going on a guilt trip" kind of thing. Which is exactly what she would do to me if she ever had to cut the grass or take out the garbage or shovel fucking snow, which she NEVER fucking had to do btw.

There's actually a great scene in Syriana where Matt Damon gets angry after his wife tries to guilt trip him about being a bad father after their child dies in an electrified swimming pool that had been poorly maintained by Arab sheiks. Damon mans up and yells at his wife, "Aw, FUCK YOU! I changed the fucking diapers!" And she shuts up. I like that scene because it illustrates what I'm talking about. Damon's wife is humiliated into silence because he never should have had to change diapers. He knows it and she knows it and that's why he's angry. It's a very well-written scene in a very under-appreciated movie.

Post: #29

My father had me at age 56,and Im the second.
Will confirm that the accumulated empiric knowledge is a boost but the lack of physicality,specially to withstand the demands of children is noticed,from their perspective.

Part of our sire's problem was that he no longer had the capacity to put up with a lot of the things fatherhood demanded of him,so whereas our education and street smarts excelled ,lets say we were rather lacking in most other departments.

Post: #30

A question to the guys on here who have three or more children:
Aside from owning a larger home and the costs of food, I'm wondering if children become financially cheaper after the first/second child?

My mother came from a family of seven children and my grandfather was by no means rich. A lot of people talk about the financial demands of children and the reason I ask about larger families is because when I start having children I hope to have a large family.

I realize that two children are more expensive than one, what I'm referring to is how much less the second or third child costs when compared to the costs of the first. For example, you've already made many major investments in clothing, strollers, car seats, high chairs, baby toys, learning materials, etc. Having one child seems like an awful waste of these investments when they can easily be reused (as is the case in most families with more than one child).

Can anyone weigh in on this?

Post: #31

There's not many good reasons to buy new things for small kids/babies. They'll outgrow them in a few months, and there's many things you won't need fairly fast.
You can buy can liner bags full of baby/child clothes at garage sales, thrift stores, etc. Then once they're all grown out, pass them on.
Only things you need new involve child safety, car seat, crib, etc. Everything else can be sterilized, used, then passed on. You could use clothe diapers and a cleaning service, but it's not much savings compared to disposable, (depending on your area).

I bought/buy lots of cool toys for dirt cheap, which won't be of any use right now, but now I don't need to buy shit for many christmases/birthdays, just go into the attic, pick out whatever is age appropriate, wrap and done.

Post: #32

In answer to OP, I don't think 50 is too old to have young kids in the house, but it'll really depend on your health and tolerance for bullshit. As an example, my Dad and his second wife raised her grandson from a toddler. The kid's just graduated high school in the past year or so and my Dad just turned eighty a few months ago. My Dad's pretty active for his age, still hunts and has been taking him out hunting since he was quite young. If you pick the right activities/sports, there's no reason to let your age prevent you in being involved with your kids.

I've just turned 42, we're expecting child number three in a couple of months, and I'd happily have another one or two.

Post: #33

(03-08-2016 03:42 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  A question to the guys on here who have three or more children:
Aside from owning a larger home and the costs of food, I'm wondering if children become financially cheaper after the first/second child?

My mother came from a family of seven children and my grandfather was by no means rich. A lot of people talk about the financial demands of children and the reason I ask about larger families is because when I start having children I hope to have a large family.

I realize that two children are more expensive than one, what I'm referring to is how much less the second or third child costs when compared to the costs of the first. For example, you've already made many major investments in clothing, strollers, car seats, high chairs, baby toys, learning materials, etc. Having one child seems like an awful waste of these investments when they can easily be reused (as is the case in most families with more than one child).

Can anyone weigh in on this?

You can get so much clothing and stuff for free from sites like freecycle. And here in the UK, you can buy new clothes pretty cheaply from the big supermarkets. When they're little they tend to grow out of the clothes before they wear them out. Our two share a room and usually a bed so it's not like you have to have a really big house either.

Post: #34

I understand this is not the best site/forum to discuss this.

If you are young and living your life, so be it. A lot of guys don't want kids, that is cool and entirely their decision.

I am not one of those guys.

I grew up in a good home, my parents are still together. They have given me a lot in life, I feel like I owe them something in return. A offspring would be the best gift I could ever give them, sure a nice wife would be good as well. We all know how that goes.

Yes, there are some crazy girls out there. Truth be told, most girls aren't capable of being good mothers.

Post: #35

Slightly off topic but.......
When I have a kid I'm going to buy it Legos and lincoln logs instead of a iPad. I think giving early early developing kids smartphones and tablets is fucking horrible. Their little brain is in development and you stick a huge HD screen in its face with vivid colors and flashing lights and sounds while its developing. Then later on sit it in front of black chalk board when its in school and its not going to have any interest and its little mind if going to wander... thats why everyone has such short attention spans these days...

Post: #36

For the life of me I can't find legos for cheap. I found some old erector sets and technics, but no legos.

Post: #37

^ I remember my parents saying Legos were expensive, but I guess even my cheap Asian parents saw the value in them. That and letting me do programming on the computer almost certainly drove me into STEM.

Post: #38

(03-08-2016 03:42 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  A question to the guys on here who have three or more children:
Aside from owning a larger home and the costs of food, I'm wondering if children become financially cheaper after the first/second child?

My mother came from a family of seven children and my grandfather was by no means rich. A lot of people talk about the financial demands of children and the reason I ask about larger families is because when I start having children I hope to have a large family.

I realize that two children are more expensive than one, what I'm referring to is how much less the second or third child costs when compared to the costs of the first. For example, you've already made many major investments in clothing, strollers, car seats, high chairs, baby toys, learning materials, etc. Having one child seems like an awful waste of these investments when they can easily be reused (as is the case in most families with more than one child).

Can anyone weigh in on this?

Yes, I believe the second child is cheaper because you can recycle a lot of the baby-support gear and clothes. However, when you go from two to three kids I believe the costs suddenly kicks upward, because:

- Two or three bedroom houses are fairly common. Four bedrooms not as much so you start paying a premium.
- When traveling hotel rooms can usually hold four people, but the hotel may require five people to have separate rooms
- Most sedans can comfortably hold four people, but to travel with five you'll need something bigger, such as a larger SUV or minivan which costs more.

Managing three kids also seems to be a more major investment in time than two. The "middle child syndrome" also often kicks in and the middle child can be a big emotional headache. I would say two hits the sweet spot of time/resources. If you have more, then it may be better to just go ahead and have four because you'll get the same economy for the fourth that you got for the second plus avoid creating the middle child problem.

Post: #39

My kids are in their teens now, this is the age where I can introduce them to new foods/music/literature and have them view these things with some sort of appreciation.

This is also the age where they are exercising more of their independence and testing boundaries. I've always felt that this is the age where either the parental lessons instilled in them will take hold, or the parental neglect they've been exposed to will manfest itself.

As men we never stop providing guidance, protection or even a listening ear; no matter the age of our seeds. We generally oscillate between these roles.

Post: #40

(03-08-2016 11:02 PM)Cr33pin Wrote:  Slightly off topic but.......
When I have a kid I'm going to buy it Legos and lincoln logs instead of a iPad. I think giving early early developing kids smartphones and tablets is fucking horrible. Their little brain is in development and you stick a huge HD screen in its face with vivid colors and flashing lights and sounds while its developing. Then later on sit it in front of black chalk board when its in school and its not going to have any interest and its little mind if going to wander... thats why everyone has such short attention spans these days...

Get them big mixed buckets of legos from garage sales.

I had a massive collection of them somewhere. I think they've long since been sold at garage sales.

I really want a big family. Ideally 4, but i'd be ok with more. The problem is, I really love the UK and could spend my time raising a famaily here.

However, the cost of owning a home and everything else is retarded. A 4 bedroom home in Oxfordshire can run somewhere in the realm of 700-800k GBP, contrast that with a house in say Santa Monica is around ~400k USD.

There's no reason for property to cost that much in this country beyond council's wanting to pump up their tax revenue.

Such a shame, no wonder England's birth rate is plumitting.

Post: #41

Maybe off thread:

Those who have had kids,how did you deal with the mother's family?

Post: #42

(03-09-2016 01:23 PM)El_Gostro Wrote:  Maybe off thread:

Those who have had kids,how did you deal with the mother's family?

I encourage my wife to use her mom as her emotional tampon so I don't have to deal with that shit. Seems to work fine.

Post: #43

(03-09-2016 02:46 PM)C-Note Wrote:  

(03-09-2016 01:23 PM)El_Gostro Wrote:  Maybe off thread:

Those who have had kids,how did you deal with the mother's family?

I encourage my wife to use her mom as her emotional tampon so I don't have to deal with that shit. Seems to work fine.

Good call.
When I was married, I encouraged the Ex to maintain good relations with her family.
She was so emotional sometimes that she would disengage her family.
Did not marry her for her emotional maturity and her brain, as I told her after the divorce.
I also learned to nudge and move out of the way.

Post: #44

(03-09-2016 12:34 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(03-08-2016 11:02 PM)Cr33pin Wrote:  Slightly off topic but.......
When I have a kid I'm going to buy it Legos and lincoln logs instead of a iPad. I think giving early early developing kids smartphones and tablets is fucking horrible. Their little brain is in development and you stick a huge HD screen in its face with vivid colors and flashing lights and sounds while its developing. Then later on sit it in front of black chalk board when its in school and its not going to have any interest and its little mind if going to wander... thats why everyone has such short attention spans these days...

Get them big mixed buckets of legos from garage sales.

I had a massive collection of them somewhere. I think they've long since been sold at garage sales.

I really want a big family. Ideally 4, but i'd be ok with more. The problem is, I really love the UK and could spend my time raising a famaily here.

However, the cost of owning a home and everything else is retarded. A 4 bedroom home in Oxfordshire can run somewhere in the realm of 700-800k GBP, contrast that with a house in say Santa Monica is around ~400k USD.

There's no reason for property to cost that much in this country beyond council's wanting to pump up their tax revenue.

Such a shame, no wonder England's birth rate is plumitting.

Er, don't live in Oxfordshire then. Down here in Somerset, you can buy a 4 bedroom house for much less than that. You're closer to the beaches, and the cider's great.

Post: #45

(03-09-2016 12:34 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(03-08-2016 11:02 PM)Cr33pin Wrote:  Slightly off topic but.......
When I have a kid I'm going to buy it Legos and lincoln logs instead of a iPad. I think giving early early developing kids smartphones and tablets is fucking horrible. Their little brain is in development and you stick a huge HD screen in its face with vivid colors and flashing lights and sounds while its developing. Then later on sit it in front of black chalk board when its in school and its not going to have any interest and its little mind if going to wander... thats why everyone has such short attention spans these days...

Get them big mixed buckets of legos from garage sales.

I had a massive collection of them somewhere. I think they've long since been sold at garage sales.

I really want a big family. Ideally 4, but i'd be ok with more. The problem is, I really love the UK and could spend my time raising a famaily here.

However, the cost of owning a home and everything else is retarded. A 4 bedroom home in Oxfordshire can run somewhere in the realm of 700-800k GBP, contrast that with a house in say Santa Monica is around ~400k USD.

There's no reason for property to cost that much in this country beyond council's wanting to pump up their tax revenue.

Such a shame, no wonder England's birth rate is plumitting.

Er, don't live in Oxfordshire then. Down here in Somerset, you can buy a 4 bedroom house for much less than that. You're closer to the beaches, and the cider's great.

Post: #46

You cannot get a 4 bedroom house in Santa Monica ,CA for 400k, at minimum 800-1milion easily...

Post: #47

Since posting this thread, I think Ive found the answer to my own question.

As long as I have my health, id like to father some kids.

Im in a good a financial position and figured id rather be retired at 50 rather than dealing with diapers etc. But a recent holiday reminded me that a life of leisure can be a curse...I can get bored in no time. It's good to have new challenges. WTF am i gonna do otherwise play golf every day?

Was also recently on a boys getaway to Vegas...hearing my married friend talk to his daughters over the phone made me realize what Im missing.

No one I give a shit to call except my own parents who wont be around forever.

Now the small matter of finding a woman worthy of impregnating.

Post: #48

Well, I don't have kids.

So, I'm either the most wrong person to answer your question, or the perfect person to answer your question.

I've only read your opening post, and your final post, just before mine, OP, so that's a bit of perspective.

You seem to be suffering some kind of low-level angst. Not really anguish or ennui, but still an annoyance.

You also seem to have found your own level, and your own way out, so I guess there isn't anything much more I can add to your story. It was interesting enough, in an abstract kind of way, and I've probably asked myself the same question, albeit in just an abstract way, to myself, in the long dark winter nights. Well, summer's here and the time is right, for racin' in the street...

I'm just glad I don't have kids these days. Even five years ago, I think it was reasonable to bring children into the world, but today, I mean, tomorrow, I think that is being less reasonable. But what do I know?

I'd love to have kids, and that is really the master plan. But I am so far behind on the work I need to do to get there. I feel like it is a mountain I have to climb. One day I hope to get there and pop off a few kids. I'd really like a daughter if I had a child, but I wouldn't mind a son. I speak intuitively and unreservedly here. I wouldn't want to intellectualise it.

The world is pretty messed up. It's not going to get any better now. A lot of lines have already been drawn. And some of us find ourselves on whatever line, for whatever arbitrary choice we might have mistakenly made before. Or not so mistakenly. There are few heroes among us. Well not yet, anyway. There might be soon.

Kids?

Like I say, the greatest goal of my life. The most furthest ahead goal. I would be like a salmon swimming back upstream after...

And some live to never leave any kids at all, before they die. So if you have kids it's a wondrous thing.

I'm ripping off the ties and binds of my family after nearly half a century on Earth. And that works the other way. What can you do?

Everyone should just try to make the best of it the best way they can.


Too much with the philosophical. I think I've probably echoed many of your sentiments without realising it. I thought you were saying something else and I was countering it, but reading it back, I was just agreeing with you.

It's late here.

Post: #49

(03-08-2016 05:58 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  I understand this is not the best site/forum to discuss this.

If you are young and living your life, so be it. A lot of guys don't want kids, that is cool and entirely their decision.

I am not one of those guys.

I grew up in a good home, my parents are still together. They have given me a lot in life, I feel like I owe them something in return. A offspring would be the best gift I could ever give them, sure a nice wife would be good as well. We all know how that goes.

I also grew up in a good home, with parents still together. I'm glad that I did give them grandchildren. My two sons make me proud and bring me happiness (sure, with a little measure of difficulty).

I encourage most of the men on this forum to follow the red pill path to fatherhood. Make yourself the best you can be, learn game and women and their (bullshit) ways. Marry a suitable, younger woman, bang away and reproduce. Lead.

Even after the divorce. Even with the expense. Even with the challenges, I wish I had more kids. I let myself get talked into a vasectomy (beta, I know) after the second was born.

Post: #50

I am too young to be a father (24), but I probably don´t see any big problem having kids young. At this moment, having a child in let´s say 27-29 is ideal.
Basic requirement, of course, is being financially stable and having good mother. I think that having children too old means, that you couldn´t give them so many care. I don´t mean feeding in 3am, but being example in all ways. You can go out and play football or go to gym with your son, when you are 45, but you can´t do it in 70. Also you will take children´s opportunity to have grandparents. In my live, grandparents were the most important to me.
And in the end, not everybody lives until 90.
It´s big decision and with every decision you gain something (at least experience) and lose something. But being a man is about making decisions.

Actually the biggest problem for me, young European, is this fucking system. Government should make conditions for young couples to make as many kids as possible. The reality is just opposite. For young working couples is having children too expensive and if they have any, it just 1 or 2. While establishment supports feeding those hordes of immigrants, gypsies, and those who will never work or give something to our society. Another reason is future, Europe is full of rapefugees and other scum. If I had a daughter, I probably would have to give up my job and watch her all day with loaded gun.