Post: #26

(03-09-2016 03:55 AM)262 Wrote:  

(03-08-2016 11:15 PM)WeekendCasanova Wrote:  If you're worried about your woman being at a pub, let's cut the bs and admit the real reason - you're insecure. Don't say it's "not feminine to drink" because that's absolutely ridiculous.

You're insecure, and you need to get over this. There's no other reason you have an issue with her drinking out with her friends. As stated above, have the abundance mentality, or else every one of your relationships is doomed from the start. It leads to toxic relationships, surrounded by a cloud of jealousy and insecurity.

Deal with your own issues first. I used to have the same problem as you, so I know where you're coming from.

Let's be clear about the above as well. Socialists (feminism is just socialism for women) will say you should accept any BS your woman does, otherwise you're insecure.

No.

What you should be secure about is that if you personally consider her actions BS, then you should be secure enough to next her and apply standard Game advice:

Go approach other girls.

Edit: By doing that, you'll get a better feel for what you can realistically expect from your local sexual market. You may find you don't like your local sexual market, in which case, you'll either have to compromise, or find a better sexual market.

There's a massive difference between "accepting bs" and letting her grab drinks with her friends.

Post: #27

I have no problem if my girl wants to go out and have a few drinks with her friends. Why the hell would I care unless I was insecure and felt threatened she might be seeking cock?

Drinking isn't anti-feminine. What's a turnoff is a girl who drinks too much, can't handle it and gets all sloppy. But that goes for going out or doing it in smaller company as well.

Of course, my girl is European and she despises the way American chicks act, attention seeking, over the top sluts who can't think for themselves. But that's not a going out and having a few drinks issue, it's more who's going out and having a few drinks.

I'd argue, if your girl is going out and getting sloppy and/or looking for other cock, there's one of two issues.

1) You chose poorly or
2) Your girl doesn't think much of you

If you chose well, have plenty to offer your girl and are secure, her going out and having a few drinks shouldn't register on the radar. Most guys I know who are nervous about what their girl might do behind their backs, it stems from insecurity.

I also find it attractive when a girl can handle her alcohol and get along with the boys. Those girls are usually chill, vibe more with how men think/act, understand them better. It's the girls who can't handle their booze, drink fruity little pussy drinks and start acting all obnoxious which I can't stand. Point being, in my experiences I've had some very good times sipping vodka or rakia or EE or Russian girls who are incredibly chill and many of them go out with their girlfriends. No concern to me. It's the American girls who largely act different and that goes back to the type the girl doing the drinking and how they compose themselves in public, not that the drinking or going out is the problem.

Post: #28

Amazing the extent of Blue Pill White Knight neomasculine apologist sentiment that still exists here...

In the EE and UA and RU the men keep their wives and mistresses both on short leashes otherwise they wind up hanging out with their girlfriends because they either lost their man or are seeking a new man to make up for the one they lost - this begins in their freshman year of college and goes on throughout their lives.

Post: #29

(03-09-2016 07:55 AM)WeekendCasanova Wrote:  

(03-09-2016 05:12 AM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

(03-08-2016 11:15 PM)WeekendCasanova Wrote:  If you're worried about your woman being at a pub, let's cut the bs and admit the real reason - you're insecure. Don't say it's "not feminine to drink" because that's absolutely ridiculous.

You're insecure, and you need to get over this. There's no other reason you have an issue with her drinking out with her friends. As stated above, have the abundance mentality, or else every one of your relationships is doomed from the start. It leads to toxic relationships, surrounded by a cloud of jealousy and insecurity.

Deal with your own issues first. I used to have the same problem as you, so I know where you're coming from.

If your woman wants to go out and spend indiscriminately on her credit card and go into large amounts of debt, you shouldn't be worried about it. The real reason is that you're insecure. Don't say, "her fiscal responsibility is my concern" because that's absolutely ridiculous.

You're insecure and you need to get over this. There's no other reason you have an issue with her going into debt on her own credit cards. As stated above, have the abundance mentality or else every one of your other relationships will be with people of sound fiscal judgement. People who keep an eye on their expenditures as well as the expenditures of others close to them are greedy and insecure.

It's quite obvious that he's not worried about her being fiscally sound. And as he says, "even if it's not too often", but hey, I guess controlling your woman, and not letting her go out with friends is manly and completely rational.

I guess you never go out for drinks with your friends, because you want to be fiscally sound.

Got a good chuckle out of this - thanks. Didn't know going out for drinks a few times with friends is breaking the bank.

It's quite obvious you missed my sarcastic analogy.

Context is pretty important. If she's going out in a responsible fashion to have dinner with a few like-minded feminine and non-slut girlfriends and having a couple drinks at dinner, okay no problem. If she's trying to go to the pub and get sloshed with trashy slutty girls then yeah it's a problem.

Insecurity is the least of it, it's having standards for the women you date. Maybe she's not going out and banging guys now, but wait until she hangs out with and begins to behave more like the trashy/slutty girls. Besides, alcohol has a pretty negative effect on women's looks when they drink often.

Your concern trolling for our masculinity is noted.

How about you just say, "Man up, you should not be concerned about anything your woman is doing without you!"

Post: #30

(03-08-2016 11:15 PM)WeekendCasanova Wrote:  If you're worried about your woman being at a pub, let's cut the bs and admit the real reason - you're insecure. Don't say it's "not feminine to drink" because that's absolutely ridiculous.

You're insecure, and you need to get over this. There's no other reason you have an issue with her drinking out with her friends. As stated above, have the abundance mentality, or else every one of your relationships is doomed from the start. It leads to toxic relationships, surrounded by a cloud of jealousy and insecurity.

Deal with your own issues first. I used to have the same problem as you, so I know where you're coming from.

Agreed. Let your lizars go and have a drink with the girls, with her gay friends, with her boss....fuck it... do what you want on your side. If she says something stupid while drunk to you or misbehaves, next, there are too many hot women in this fucking world.

My current LTR likes to drink as much as me. We both get drunk togeteher, if she get tipzy by herself she is always calling me or texting, specially because I am travelling too much. I love to get a good night I love you text when I am boning another girl. Am I sick?

Post: #31

I don't understand this feminine tactic of dismissing a legitimate concern by shouting over with "YOU'RE JUST BEING INSECURE!" We're not talking about random plates. We're talking about LTRs here and the constant platitude of "ABUNDANCE MENTALITY" and "dread game" is like a hive mind echo chamber. Why would you enter an LTR anyways if you have to be on edge all the time and play games of one-ups-manship with her?

Post: #32

(03-09-2016 06:06 PM)Deepdiver Wrote:  Amazing the extent of Blue Pill White Knight neomasculine apologist sentiment that still exists here...

Having a girl who's good looking and doesn't mind going out for a few drinks with her girls every now and then and can handle herself well, and being the guy who's not threatened by that behavior has nothing at all to do with being a white knight neomasculine apologist.

Worrying that your girl is going to seek cock elsewhere or can't handle her liquor so you keep her locked in-doors, well that's about as blue pill as you can get. If your girl gets buck wild and acts a fool in public when drinking and gives you reason to be nervous, goes back to being blue pilled and not being able to attain the right type of girl in the first place.

Girls respect strong men and will act accordingly. If someone's girl acts differently, it goes back to the type of man she's with.

Post: #33

Modern, young, non-religious girls think it's totally normal to have "platonic" male friends and drink with mixed groups at night, while still being in a relationship.

First, you try to suss out if they are acting in good faith vs just out to cuck you. Good faith actions don't mean they are the most positive actions, rather that they are coming from a place where you can work with them.

Second, you fuck them good and hard and make sure you are both sexually satisfied.

Third, you explain that -- rather than jealousy or control -- your concern with her behavior is based on reputation and networking. This is a benefit to you both. Have her recall all the times her female acquaintances have spoken disrespectfully about their men, or acted in a way that shows their men don't really matter. She will have felt either repulsion at the speaker ("what a bitch") or the man ("what a chump"), or both. Ask her if that's how she wants others to view her and you. Remind her that, once two people choose to be together in any public relationship, it colors the reactions of all those around them. You can present yourself as a loyal person who chooses wisely and is content, and then reap the benefits. Or you can look like the opposite...

Finally, tell her "I expect that you represent our relationship positively and with respect". No need for threats of what will happen if she doesn't. You know what will happen. You will cast her aside without a second thought. When you tell her what you expect -- calmly, with a slight smile -- your eyes should show the results of non-compliance.

Post: #34

Depends if she's buying the drinks.

Post: #35

(03-09-2016 07:37 PM)BetaNoMore Wrote:  I don't understand this feminine tactic of dismissing a legitimate concern by shouting over with "YOU'RE JUST BEING INSECURE!" We're not talking about random plates. We're talking about LTRs here and the constant platitude of "ABUNDANCE MENTALITY" and "dread game" is like a hive mind echo chamber. Why would you enter an LTR anyways if you have to be on edge all the time and play games of one-ups-manship with her?

Why should you have to be on edge because your women is out having drinks with friends ? I simply can't understand why you'd worry, unless you're not confident in your abilities to please and satisfy her, or you're worried she doesn't think youre a man and will go dump on any guys dick. It's ridiculous.

Post: #36

(03-04-2016 06:12 AM)Latan Wrote:  You can't change who she is.

If you tell her not to do something, she'll do it anyway behind your back, eventually.
Exchange her for one who doesn't like to drink, problem solved.

Agree.

All the talk about controlling frame around here make newbies think they can actually control women's behaviors. Nothing further from the truth.

Plus, if you have to forbid her to do something, you already lose frame and she will do it anyway.

Girls who drink are great fun for plates/ONS, but LTR material must be someone who doesn't like alcohol and bars. A bit of wine for dinner is ok though.

Quote:Why should you have to be on edge because your women is out having drinks with friends ? I simply can't understand why you'd worry, unless you're not confident in your abilities to please and satisfy her, or you're worried she doesn't think youre a man and will go dump on any guys dick. It's ridiculous.

The reasons that beta orbiters get laid, is that they keep hanging around the girls until one night she is drunk enough after a fight with her man. That should get you thinking.

If you are totally confident that your women wont go stray, you are too naive. You can afford to not care though, if thats what it comes down to. Leaving your girl for girls night out is a recipe for disaster.

Post: #37

(03-09-2016 01:37 AM)Deepdiver Wrote:  I learned a long time ago that telling American women anything is likely to result in the undesired behavior.

Instead you have to train them and make them understand that you trust them and that should they not follow your lead in the relationship the moment they are off to the beach house of a GF for a weekend without you - you will be balls deep in your other female admirers.

Look at Bill Clinton - he can't yell at Hillary, He can't beat Hillary and he can't stop Hillary from being a Lesbie coont - but he sure as hell can get all the strange he wants when Hillary is off on her frequent road trips.

She is humiliated sexually by him constantly for being the bitch she is and she still sticks by him like glue...

If one of my LTRs goes out with the girls or away for the weekend or worse to Hawaii for a week with her bestie...

She will be tasting more than one other woman's funk that I will not shower off when she comes back for guilt BJs and sex.

Unless she is a total slut in which case I would not LTR her in the first place - sexual attitude correction combined with laying stiff pipe that keeps her walking bowlegged complaining of rope burn is about the best no-stray insurance a man can hope for.

Of course I explain to them the Italian rules once we become regular and they find out quick if I deem their behavior in or out of the bedroom to be disrespectful in any way.

Result no alimony and no child support but did have to next some decent lays and forego other lays that in retrospect would have been better LTRs.

If anything I have learned that Red Pill wisdom mandates you drop the NEXT hammer much sooner than later.

Now that I am at the point of wanting a few little legacies to raise properly I make sure to have a deal breakers discussion right up front with prospective baby mommas and they know that if they want to see me put a ring on it then the dealbreakers are in fact DEAL BREAKERS. Its all part of carefully house breaking and training the modern phuckable feral western female.

Of course if you do put a ring on it you have to game them for life with subtle dread game should they let any little feral phocking female GFs put any unacceptable ideas into their little heads. They dare step out of line as a mother and I am a ghost to Red Pill countries unknown (to her). This is why every man needs to keep a secret bug out fund preferably in an offshore corporate entity just in case that the LTRs have no knowledge of.

Co-signed

Post: #38

(03-10-2016 09:39 AM)hwuzhere Wrote:  

(03-09-2016 01:37 AM)Deepdiver Wrote:  I learned a long time ago that telling American women anything is likely to result in the undesired behavior.

Instead you have to train them and make them understand that you trust them and that should they not follow your lead in the relationship the moment they are off to the beach house of a GF for a weekend without you - you will be balls deep in your other female admirers.

Look at Bill Clinton - he can't yell at Hillary, He can't beat Hillary and he can't stop Hillary from being a Lesbie coont - but he sure as hell can get all the strange he wants when Hillary is off on her frequent road trips.

She is humiliated sexually by him constantly for being the bitch she is and she still sticks by him like glue...

If one of my LTRs goes out with the girls or away for the weekend or worse to Hawaii for a week with her bestie...

She will be tasting more than one other woman's funk that I will not shower off when she comes back for guilt BJs and sex.

Unless she is a total slut in which case I would not LTR her in the first place - sexual attitude correction combined with laying stiff pipe that keeps her walking bowlegged complaining of rope burn is about the best no-stray insurance a man can hope for.

Of course I explain to them the Italian rules once we become regular and they find out quick if I deem their behavior in or out of the bedroom to be disrespectful in any way.

Result no alimony and no child support but did have to next some decent lays and forego other lays that in retrospect would have been better LTRs.

If anything I have learned that Red Pill wisdom mandates you drop the NEXT hammer much sooner than later.

Now that I am at the point of wanting a few little legacies to raise properly I make sure to have a deal breakers discussion right up front with prospective baby mommas and they know that if they want to see me put a ring on it then the dealbreakers are in fact DEAL BREAKERS. Its all part of carefully house breaking and training the modern phuckable feral western female.

Of course if you do put a ring on it you have to game them for life with subtle dread game should they let any little feral phocking female GFs put any unacceptable ideas into their little heads. They dare step out of line as a mother and I am a ghost to Red Pill countries unknown (to her). This is why every man needs to keep a secret bug out fund preferably in an offshore corporate entity just in case that the LTRs have no knowledge of.

Co-signed

Couldn't agree more.

Post: #39

No.

The first time my ex said she wanted to go out with her friends to a club at night I broke up with her, right there (2 year LTR). We were living apart at that time. If she wanted to catch up she could go out for day activities (shopping, restaurant, whatever crap women like). However, what matters in this case is the intent. That's basically not LTR behavior, in my opinion that's just covert slutiness.

Post: #40

^ THAT is abundance mentality.

Post: #41

It depends on what you want out of the relationship.

Do you really want a wife? Why? The only reasonable scenario I can think of is getting married to have children and having an enforceable prenup agreement.

Do you want a monogamous LTR? Most guys aren't going to be able to have a LTR that allows them to have sex with other women while she isn't allowed to go to bars or clubs.

Most guys that have many women also have a personality that is aloof, zero fucks given, self-amused, and happy. I haven't met a legit player yet that worries much about what a girl is doing when he isn't around. Heartiste said something like "beta males mate guard, alpha males disregard". So it depends on what you want out of the relationship but the pattern I've seen is - the more women a guy has, the less controlling he is.

Post: #42

PRO TIP for "controlling your woman"

If she is a "my body, my choice" type of woman who resents your commands, then its important to say back:

"Yes it is... and its my body, my choice who I date, and I don't date sluts who do XYZ"

Changes the frame from control to I reject you based on your slutty behavior.

This works well in my experience.

Post: #43

(03-10-2016 10:59 AM)nikolai Wrote:  No.

The first time my ex said she wanted to go out with her friends to a club at night I broke up with her, right there (2 year LTR). We were living apart at that time. If she wanted to catch up she could go out for day activities (shopping, restaurant, whatever crap women like). However, what matters in this case is the intent. That's basically not LTR behavior, in my opinion that's just covert slutiness.

Bravo.

Guys need to realize seriously committing to a woman is quite a privilege for her especially as she ages.

The sacrifices a man makes to stay committed are much heavier than simply missing the ability to attention whore.

Post: #44

(03-08-2016 11:15 PM)WeekendCasanova Wrote:  Yu guize are just N-SECYUREE! MY PRINCESS WOULD NEVER DO ANYTHING BAD! MAN UP AND MARRY THOSE SLUTS!

What is this, Reddit? You do realize you're reciting talking points straight out of /r/relationships, right?


EDIT: Rollo had a really great article on Girls Night Out, probably the only one I went back and read more than once. For those interested, check out his analysis on the subject. However I won't link to him due to his shady behavior as of late.

Post: #45

The question you have to ask yourself is, "why don't you want her to do those things?" I have my doubts that it's really about drinking not being feminine...

I'm in an LTR now and because of our jobs, we rarely have the chance to go out on the same days. If she wants to hang out with her gay friends or girl friends, why not? The moment I'm getting any sense that she's cheating on me or making me look bad by flirting too much with guys, she's out and I'm on to the next one. Amd she knows that.

My advice is to keep a relaxed attitude with these things, but feel free to set your limits. I'm not happy for her to meet up with ex boyfriends and I'm not happy with her going out alone with single (straight) guys. She knows that and agrees that that's fair enough. If your ideas about what is fair is too far off, you should really consider whether you're fit for an LTR together.

Post: #46

Short answer, no.

Mine would not get away with something like that and if she did I'd be out. Not happening.

If you're in an LTR you have to view women as your property - would you leave your car sitting in a busy intersection with the door open and the keys in the ignition?

Post: #47

From my observation, the majority of the time women who are good girlfriends/wives simply don't want to do this. No need to worry about whether or not you permit it. Here's a "red pill" truth: A lot of jealousy/insecurity IS rational.

Post: #48

I think this is a great topic, with some solid replies, and of interest to those men who may have tired of playing the game and have found a special one.

A. To Control or Not?

Some points regarding the relative philosophies, which have been reduced to dichotomies for ease of expression:

"Do not try to control her--you cannot change a woman, this will backfire, you chose poorly, I am secure in the relationship, I am ready to next [refs 1,2]".

vs

"Demand she doesn't go, set the boundaries, lay down the law."

If you a wholly unconcerned about the behaviour of your LTR when you are not around, then you may

> Have chosen well -- the ultimate solution here -- and reached a point where you fully trust her, and/or
> Be a master of self-control and detachment despite your involvement, and have a zen-like "let it be" attitude, a strong sense of abundance anf the genuine ability to walk away, and/or
> Had her around so long you just don't give a sh*t. As Louis CK, says, "Ah, f*ck it" [ref 3], or
> Have a different definition of an LTR (mine is "a substantial, ongoing, emotionally-involved, and largely if not wholly committed relationship, and ideally is a prospect for mother of future children"),

That said, in a general sense whilst having the serious capacity to walk away is critical to your own mental health and to her level of respect for you, IMO the ability to calmly negotiate your own needs and set measures of respect is also important, as is the assessment of her needs and then doing what you can to reasonably fulfill them.

If you think that trying to control/influence a woman is a fruitless endeavor, or that it could backfire, then i would say that you are right, but only partially right. Depending on the person, trait and environment, certain behavioural traits in adulthood can be predicted in childhood whilst others may be altered even in old age [ref 4]. Therefore, it can be helpful to make an assessment of her specific behavioural plasticity; can she change?

In my mind, throwing up your hands in resignation means a few things:

(i) taking a passive role in the relationship which, to me, is a feminine trait, (ii) similarly, failing to recognize that -- as men -- we have to be the leaders during most of the relationship, and (iii) women and men test each other in so many conscious and subconscious ways throughout relationships to see what they can get away with, to see what the other person will give them, to see what makes their partner happy; women will adapt their behaviour based on your response.

[The same goes for men. if you had a super GF that you wanted to marry, and she was ok with you drinking or she wasn't ok with you drinking, you would most likely continue/modify your behaviour accordingly. Of course some guys would continue doing whatever they were doing, but then again others would comply with their awesome GF, because she most likely has complied with your requests by this stage too. Compromise is a scary word for some but is the reality of most serious, loving and mutually-respectful relationships].

Alternatively, if your insecurity is driving your controlling behaviour and if you are not providing her with a sense of self-autonomy, then you are likely to suffer both a weakened bond and defying, contrarian resistance.

Now, all decisions are best made in context:

B. Contextual Factors

- Her personality and drinking habits? If she is introverted, emotionally stable [ref 5], self-actualised and doesn't enjoy drinking that much, it is less likely for her to get involved in alcohol-based attention- and dick-seeking compared to a girl who is a party person, bipolar, in need of external validation and tends to binge. Now, these personas are somewhat exaggerated however such a personality profile can serve to gauge your response to her intent to "have a drink with friends".

- On that note, and more importantly, have you chosen poorly and are hanging on due to a lack of abundance, established routines, and a sad, sorry, emotional attachment? Are you dating a low-class, loose woman that disrespects you? This can be very difficult to ask yourself, but really must be done for your own sake in the long term. If so the best solution may be the most simple: IMMEDIATE BYEBYE. Prevention is the best cure or, put another way, if your GF likes getting drunk in clubs then it's probably a bad decision and time to next.

- How old is she? The older she is, the harder to change her behaviour (generally).

- How old is your relationship? If she has already expressed the undesired behaviour several times since you met, it will harder to change her behaviour; the sooner you set the frame of your relationship the better.

- How serious is your relationship? if she is really attached to you, she will be willing to give up certain things to please you. If she is not that involved, she won't sacrifice much for you; over time, with increasing attachment, you can ask for more and more investment.

Reconciling this with the previous point may be difficult at times; sometimes you will want to explain something verbally and directly but may feel you lack the sufficient level of compliance. Some tips here:

1. Lead by example; and show, don't tell. If you don't want her out drinking, then don't go out drinking. If you want her to hit the gym, then hit the gym several times per week. If you want to trust her, show her you are trustworthy.

2. Tell stories about 3rd-parties, use hints, explain your ideas with implicit references, use your body language; try to avoid stating it directly. Sometimes less is more. For example, it is possible to punish a girl for a minor infraction of poor behavior simply through your non-verbal facial expression of disapproval, and nothing more.

3. If you need to address it directly, do it without emotion on your behalf, but engage hers. E.g., consider putting her in your shoes; have her imagine you going out, getting drunk and then stumbling around a nightclub. If she agrees that she dislikes that image then she will be more likely to agree with her not hypocritically engaging in that behavior.

Alternatively, set some guidelines (e.g., you are comfortable with her occasionally getting drunk at a restaurant but not in a club), however do it without any direct threats, ultimatums or "musts"; she should ideally implicitly know that you will not tolerate disrespect, that you are socially proofed and could have options if you wanted, and therefore... You can WALK =). [ref 1, 2]

But most of all...

When it comes to investing your time, energy and resources into one woman, I suggest you choose carefully and don't rush into it.

C. References

[1, 2] Gang Starr - Ex Girl to Next Girl





K Camp - Cut Her Off (Remix) ft. Too Short, YG, Lil Boosie




[3] Louis CK: "F*ck it





[4] Roberts, Brent W., Kate E. Walton, and Wolfgang Viechtbauer. "Patterns of mean-level change in personality traits across the life course: a meta-analysis of longitudinal studies." Psychological bulletin 132.1 (2006): 1.

Quote:"People tend to become more socially dominant, conscien-
tious, and emotionally stable through midlife. Moreover, the pe-
riod of young adulthood rather than adolescence is the primary
period of mean-level personality trait development. We also pro-
vided definitive evidence for the continued plasticity of personality
traits beyond age 30 and well into old age in the case of specific
traits, such as social vitality, agreeableness, conscientiousness, and
openness to experience."

LINK: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Bre...000000.pdf

[5] Roberts, Brent W., et al. "The power of personality: The comparative validity of personality traits, socioeconomic status, and cognitive ability for predicting important life outcomes." Perspectives on Psychological Science 2.4 (2007): 313-345.

Quote:"When so aggregated, the effect of Neuroticism on divorce was .17 (CIs = .12 and .22), the effect of Agreeableness was − .18 (CIs = −.27 and −.09), and the effect of Conscientiousness on divorce was −.13 (CIs = −.17 and −.09)."

LINK: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4499872/

[6] These are some great posts (LINK in the green arrow for the full post)-

(03-09-2016 11:01 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  Modern, young, non-religious girls think it's totally normal to have "platonic" male friends and drink with mixed groups at night, while still being in a relationship....

(03-09-2016 01:37 AM)Deepdiver Wrote:  I learned a long time ago that telling American women anything is likely to result in the undesired behavior....

Post: #49

I think most girls like an authoritative man that tells them what he wants and expects out of the relationship, you shouldn't ever be afraid to lay down the law.

Post: #50

Strong post, artiste.

It's not about "controlling" or allowing her behaviour. If you have to put your foot down to begin with, you've chosen poorly and have already lost. The only remedy is to cut her loose.

I'm finding that many women nowadays are of poor quality wrt LTRs. Many women have many "friends" of the opposite sex, defaced their bodies with large tattoos, and are slaves to mindless hedonism and validation through partying hard, drugs, music festivals and attention whoring through social media. I prefer an LTR and have no desire to pump and dump the low quality women who fall into the above categories but with so many women who are lost nowadays in the west (especially in metropolitan areas), it seems like options really are limited and hope finding a good, decent woman is almost an impossible task.