Post: #1

tl;dr - Do you take your punishment like a man (can't think of better way to describe it) or do you run from what you know you earned as punishment?

Watching a movie and a guy gets his lumps for having done something bad, he deserved it. Granted "deserve" is an opinion, like many things in life. Later, he needs to get revenge for the fact he was punished for shitty behavior.

To me that is sort of fucked up, you fuck someone over and you get punished, that is the code, the way. So it got me thinking, how many of you guys take your lumps like a man. Or do you bitch, or do you fight back, or you run?

I think deep down inside we all have a mechanism that let's us know when we fucked up and we deserve some punishment, but then the ego gets in the way, or the cowardice.

I'd like to think (and my history suggests) that I for the most part take my lumps. I also know when I am dishing out punishment, it escalates/sky rockets when people get defensive. Being open and honest with me, and when I sense they get they fucked up, I often times will let it slide, but will never trust or work with them again. But when people get defensive, man I see red. Don't get me wrong, I am not some sort of mob boss or anything. I like being/trying to be a good guy. No reason to be a dick to people, but hate getting fucked with.

Post: #2

Do you have an example?

Although I voted yes, I think it depends. If it's a reprimand, yes no bitching. But if the punishment is too severe for whatever the crime was, then I'd either negotiate it down. Or if I am in physical danger, I would fight back out of self preservation.

Take my own example at work a few weeks ago... I was having a particularly bad day and I was distracted. Without going into details, I put some numbers in a report and it's important that they are accurate down to the 4th decimal point. But because I was distracted, I fucked up and my numbers were wrong... not just a "little" wrong, but translated into financial terms, about a few million dollars off.

My boss got upset and pulled me aside with a finger in my face, "that cannot happen again, you understand?"

"Yes sir, won't happen again." My face was beet red but I didn't bitch or complain or make excuses.

Post: #3

CS, at the moment, I can't think of any examples other than some rough business deals but I have not skipped making debt payments, etc. I rode through the housing crisis and handled my debts responsibly, none of this not paying and other games people play (like buying another house cheaper and then skipping out on the first one). But I sacrifice, it isn't easy. I have bled. Luckily I don't live a baller life, I don't have a need to impress anyone. I just live by a deal is a deal sort of code.

And don't get me wrong, I have done things that have hurt people, I just try to make amends. I don't want anyone to be worse off after having met me. I don't appreciate it happening to me.

Post: #4

It depends on whether I think the men who will decide judgement are fair and respectable.

So for most legal issues, no.

For most personal issues with family and friends, yes.

Post: #5

If I'm wrong I 100% admit it and do my best to make amends and learn from what I did wrong.

Not being able to admit you're wrong is a very serious character flaw. I don't give a shit who you are, everyone makes a mistake once in a while.

No one is perfect or knows everything. The ones that think they do often times are the biggest fucking morons.

Post: #6

(02-14-2016 09:14 PM)YossariansRight Wrote:  If I'm wrong I 100% admit it and do my best to make amends and learn from what I did wrong.

Not being able to admit you're wrong is a very serious character flaw. I don't give a shit who you are, everyone makes a mistake once in a while.

No one is perfect or knows everything. The ones that think they do often times are the biggest fucking morons.

A lot of guys seem to come off like they are perfect. I know I am far from it.

Post: #7

(02-14-2016 09:25 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(02-14-2016 09:14 PM)YossariansRight Wrote:  If I'm wrong I 100% admit it and do my best to make amends and learn from what I did wrong.

Not being able to admit you're wrong is a very serious character flaw. I don't give a shit who you are, everyone makes a mistake once in a while.

No one is perfect or knows everything. The ones that think they do often times are the biggest fucking morons.

A lot of guys seem to come off like they are perfect. I know I am far from it.

That's two of us.

Post: #8

If I'm in the wrong and I know I'm in the wrong, punishment is the only way to learn.

I don't ever apologize, I'll say "It won't happen again".

98% of the time "sorry" means "I'm sorry I was caught" or "I don't want to get punished".

Post: #9

(02-14-2016 11:09 PM)Hannibal Wrote:  If I'm in the wrong and I know I'm in the wrong, punishment is the only way to learn.

I don't ever apologize, I'll say "It won't happen again".

98% of the time "sorry" means "I'm sorry I was caught" or "I don't want to get punished".

Good observation.

I hate that saying, "Don't ask for permission, ask for forgiveness."

I take that as total disrespect. It makes me think somehow I made it seem ok to fuck with me. I come down harder on people who ask for forgiveness for something that if minor, I would have no problem with. I understand life is fluid, I can't be a hard ass about a lot of stuff. I know the way I write makes me seem like I am difficult to get along with, but I get along with people fine. I know what works in our society, but I hold a higher standard for those who want to be my real friends.

Post: #10

Punishment is generally overrated. Punishment is suitable for children and childish adults. They need to be told what to do because they choose to fail to understand the impact of their consequences.

At some point, people need to be sat down and have errors corrected and discussed over so they can advance further and think about their decisions going forward.

Post: #11

I'm never wrong, because I pay the salaries and I have my pick of clients. If they don't like the way I do my job, they can walk. I have a waiting list.

Post: #12

Until recently, I operated on a code of 100% honesty. I always tried to be forthcoming and create "mutual equity" or something to that affect. I would forgo my self interest in pursuit of being honest or forthright. I've taken lower salaries on the spoken agreement that it would be revised upon better performance, I've put in tons of extra work on the assumption it would be acknowledged and rewarded. Very naive and altruistic.

Now, I fight most things and take the tact that people will only be as honest as you force them to be. Honesty in the corporate world isn't rewarded.

I save complete disclosure and candidness for a select few, the rest it just isnt worth my time as they won't repay the favor.

Post: #13

The only time I would endure anything resembling punishment would be because I fucked up and the person who had to endure my fuckup was someone I respect or hold some sort of power over me. Even then, I can not remember the last instance of any sort of punishment since my teenage years.

Even then admitting you fucked up is usually more than enough to satisfy any non crazy person.

Quote:I hate that saying, "Don't ask for permission, ask for forgiveness."

Isn't the expression, it's easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission? And the saying comes from the idea that if you have an idea you should pursue that idea and only ask for forgiveness should you fail. When trying to get permission first only hiders yourself as others would possibly discourage you from taking risks.

Post: #14

I thought it had more to do with pushing your luck until someone gets pissed off instead of asking the conventional way and not getting what you want.

Either way, if you're willing to push someone's buttons like that just to get what you want, you probably don't respect them all that much or you're assuming a sale. This thread needs a for-instance.

Post: #15

Whenever I do anything wrong and I realize it, I immediately start to figure out the best way to deal with and resolve the situation.

I will take responsibility if the situation calls for it. I don't see it in terms of guilt and punishment.

Post: #16

(02-14-2016 11:28 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(02-14-2016 11:09 PM)Hannibal Wrote:  If I'm in the wrong and I know I'm in the wrong, punishment is the only way to learn.

I don't ever apologize, I'll say "It won't happen again".

98% of the time "sorry" means "I'm sorry I was caught" or "I don't want to get punished".

Good observation.

I hate that saying, "Don't ask for permission, ask for forgiveness."

I take that as total disrespect. It makes me think somehow I made it seem ok to fuck with me. I come down harder on people who ask for forgiveness for something that if minor, I would have no problem with. I understand life is fluid, I can't be a hard ass about a lot of stuff. I know the way I write makes me seem like I am difficult to get along with, but I get along with people fine. I know what works in our society, but I hold a higher standard for those who want to be my real friends.

I disagree.

Shit has got to get done, and often people are not willing to do what it takes, get their hands dirty, step on some toes, go against the majority, whatever.

The point of not asking for permission is acknowledging that some people (including your peers) might be upset by your actions, but knowing they will back and support you (once you succeed) after the fact.

Post: #17

I think we are looking at work situations vs non work situations. I wasn't really thinking of work situations. Mainly because my work is a bit different than most people's traditional structure. So I was thinking more about personal motivations where they want something and because they are afraid they won't get it, they would rather just do it and hope I don't figure it out.

It doesn't take that long to get on the same page, a quick call and most things are handled. Unless you work in some sort of paramedic or emergency nuclear shut down services. But those people are probably already trained on how to handle the situation.

Even hostage negotiations, I imagine there is consultation and conferring between the officers to figure out the plan.

In gmac's example he mentions when you succeed, but what if you fail because you failed to consult? This is just for discussion, we all have unique circumstances that make generalities hard to apply.

There are a few I have implicit trust with, but most people I have come across have very poor logic/decision making skills or easily let your personal motivations cloud what is best for the team/others as a whole.

Just discussing the topic - nothing personal to anyone.

Post: #18

This can be very dependent on the situation. Sometmes you need to play it by ear.

One time i was in a bulk foods aisle at a grocery store making a mixed bag of nuts, dried fruit, and candies for a road trip. I decided to be a bad ass and mixed different priced items in the same bag (the horror).

I ended up taking my mixed bag, premade sub, and soda through the self check outs. The lady that managed it came up to me all pissed about it and told me I wasn't allowed to mix different priced items in the same bag. I said,"I was going to price it with the most expensive item inside (the pistachios)."

Cuntily, she said no and to give it to her. So i did and did a walk of shame back to the aisle to get my mixed items in proper bags.

During the whole time I was back in the aisle there were 4 grocery employees douchily hanging around me as I did it all trying to be like secret agents watching me and being inconspicuous.

Cost difference for separating it all into new bags? $5
In retrospect the store had done douchy stuff to me in the past, i should have dumped it all onto the floor for them to clean up. In reality I got the stuff i wanted and walked out flipping the cameras off as I left.

Yeah I tried to skirt the system and got called on it. Shrugged it off, got some new stuff, and followed the rules.

Some other situation? I'd have to play it by ear. I tend not to skirt the rules because I always have the luck of running into a rule nazi.

Post: #19

Some of it depends on if the establishment, single, man, group of men, or people you fucked over are pieces of shit in the first place... that quite often as we know.. is something we find out AFTER getting involved with mother fuckers.

Generally I try to apply the same integrity across the board. With this type of POS, I line them up to take a big fall and usually see it coming if I'm in too deep. In business, it's really sad how many laws protect sleeze bags. My life would be entirely different right now had I not done some bad business 10-15 years ago... well I honored my agreement, they didn't theirs.

From a respectable source..institution, lending source, etc. - and I mean respectable by a fault - I definitely always man up and take the punishment. Then again, I try my best to never be hoodwinked, nor do the hoodwinking. I'm just not that dude.

Maybe I finish the race of life last, but I did it with integrity and conviction.

Post: #20

(02-14-2016 08:49 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  I think deep down inside we all have a mechanism that let's us know when we fucked up and we deserve some punishment, but then the ego gets in the way, or the cowardice.

The ego is also self flagellating so even feeling that you may deserve punishment for "fucking up" is ego based. The cleaner way to look at things if you really want to boil it down is am I being happy and harmless? If not then that would be the problem to begin with. Punishing oneself or seeking/taking punishment is useless.