The Syria conflict thread

Get comfy, everyone. Erdogan can't let his beloved ISIS die so easily.

Turkeys are pushing it: https://www.rt.com/news/332380-turkey-sh...ern-syria/
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"Saudi Arabia is sending troops and fighter jets to Turkey's Incirlik military base ahead of a possible ground invasion of Syria.

The Turkish foreign minister, Mevlut Cavusoglu, confirmed the deployment in a statement to the Yeni Şafak newspaper on Saturday"

"Adel al-Jubeir, the Saudi foreign minister, said Russia's intervention would not help Assad stay in power in an interview published today.

“There will be no Bashar al-Assad in the future,” he told a German newspaper."

"“Russia's target is supporting Assad, we all know that,” he added. “But the question is this: Who will stop Russia doing that?”"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/...71611.html

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(02-13-2016 12:53 PM)Requiem Wrote:  "“Russia's target is supporting Assad, we all know that,” he added. “But the question is this: Who will stop Russia doing that?”"

Very provocatively if you ask me. Why do they go upfront that quickly. It seems they are not reassess their options/outcomes or whatever. Are they grumpy or what?

Imagine another accident would happen like the last shot down of this russian fighter jet.

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(02-13-2016 05:26 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  911 Turbo, most of the migrants are not actual refugees and are not Syrian at all (heck, many are not even Arab!). The migrant crisis is something that is fully under the control of Europe, since Europe gets to decide whether to give money to migrants, whether to have secure borders, and whether to enforce laws and deport criminals and other unwanted people. Since Europe is currently ruled by globalist scum intent on destroying Europe, Europe remains wide open. But it is by its own choice, not because of Putin, Obama or anyone else.

The whole idea that Putin is somehow "punishing Europe by destabilizing Syria and sending them refugees" is absurd. You can only punish someone who wants to be punished.

I said it before, and I'll say it again. The man route the "refugees" are using goes through Turkey. If you go to the seaside resort of Bodrum, you will see that there are thousands of Syrians there buying life jackets and boats.

And when it comes to globalists, I think people are being paranoid here. Globalists do not benefit from an invasion like this. They need people who work, not live off welfare. Welfare means increased spending by the government, and thus higher tax burden on those "globalists" Somebody has to pay right? Do not compare this to the guest workers who came from Italy and Turkey during the 60s, 70s. Those people came to work, not live off welfare. The situation now is completely different. Do not compare it to Rubio trying to increase the H1b visa quota either.

And EU wouldn't offer Turkey visa free travel if most of the refugees didn't come from there. It has agreed to pay Turkey money, so Turkey can prevent the migrant invasion. But they couldn't agree on the price. Erdogan wants at least 3bn every year + visa free travel , while EU is offering 3bn for 2 years+ visa free travel.

Edit: Remember how I said a few posts back that Putin intends to break up NATO. It is slowly happening. Turkey just attacked PYD which it sees as a enemy. Now if Russia retaliates and NATO does not defend Turkey, what happens? NATO is unofficialy broken. We might see some countries leaving the alliance soon. Why does Russia want to break up NATO? Because NATO is trying to recruit ex soviet states. You can call it form of vengeance. If Turkey leaves NATO it will be a success for Russia. When Turkey leaves, other smaller states might follow suit as well. Why be in NATO if everything is only on paper?

Both NATO and Schengen will collapse, it is hard to predict which one will collapse first though.

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911Turbo, again this is misguided and has nothing to do with the topic of migrant invasion. It does not matter how many "refugees" are in Turkey or how many life jackets the Turkish are selling them.

Firstly, examine why the migrants want to come to Europe. They want to come for what they imagine (and are mostly proven correct) is free money, free high quality housing, food and medical care, fast internet, hot available women, super-easy high-paying jobs, increased social status and a dozen other things. Europe is giving them all of those things to the best of its ability.

If Europe suddenly stopped giving them all of those things (i.e. if the only things migrants could get were bread and water in an open-air fenced camp), the migrants would "magically" stop coming. The ones already here would either assimilate or leave.

Secondly, examine how they come to Europe. Europe's borders are totally unguarded. Migrants just waltz in, say which country they would like to go to, and they are bussed off to their favorite destination, rarely having to even walk. In the rare case that someone tells them "no", they just walk around the border crossing. If someone puts up a fence, they cut through the fence and force their way in.

If Europe had border walls and coast guards with the authority to use deadly force on anyone who is not peacefully applying at the border crossing, the migrants would also stop coming. This can be done quickly and easily, as Hungary has shown us:





Thirdly, examine the attitudes of European law enforcement and ruling politicians towards the migrants who arrive. Migrants enjoy something akin to a diplomatic immunity. Destroying property, petty thievery, assault, all of these are waived away as "poor refugees being nervous" or similar idiotic excuses. Migrants can commit serious crimes like rape, armed robbery and murder with impunity, facing silly punishments (2-6 years in a hotel-like prison with luxury amenities).

If Europe had politicians in power who treated the migrants just as harshly as they treat their own citizens (or harsher, since a guest ungratefully assaulting its host counts as an aggravating circumstance), the migrants would stop coming. The ones already here would either assimilate or leave.

Do you now see that all three of these solutions have zero to do with Turkey? If these three conditions were changed like I describe, do you think it would matter if there were millions of migrants buying life vests somewhere across the Aegean Sea? No, of course it wouldn't matter.

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Quote:“There will be no Bashar al-Assad in the future,” he told a German newspaper."

There will be no Saudi Arabia or Gulf States of you keep up with your current degeneracy you fuckers. Putin should remind this man that it is Russia who suffers economically from the Saudis plans to cripple them and they have every sense to pull through against Saudi Sunni terrorism.

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If NATO doesn't help the Kebab, it's gonna be like this:
http://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1...33362.webm

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(02-13-2016 02:25 PM)911Turbo Wrote:  Both NATO and Schengen will collapse, it is hard to predict which one will collapse first though.

Good riddance. Can't wait.

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At the risk of others hating me bringing this up, this is kind of following the script of Revelation in the New Testament, which predicts Russia, I think with Iran, will eventually invade Israel. "Armageddon" follows, according to scripture.

Given, that's not happening now, but Russia is becoming involved in the mid East more and more and Israel ain't far away from Syria.

Just sayin'

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Saudi Arabias military budget is higher than Russias. Russia spends 60 billion, while SA spends 75-80.bn.
Granted they don't make their own toys like Russia, they buy it from uncle sam. Don't take SA lightly because they don't have access to nukes, they have so much money to throw around that they can buy nukes from the black market. Pakistan and North Korea seem likely suppliers. I'm sure Kim Jongs cousins might sell the arabs nukes if they threw 2-3bn to them under the table.

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(02-13-2016 02:25 PM)911Turbo Wrote:  Edit: Remember how I said a few posts back that Putin intends to break up NATO. It is slowly happening. Turkey just attacked PYD which it sees as a enemy. Now if Russia retaliates and NATO does not defend Turkey, what happens? NATO is unofficialy broken.

That is a pretty bold assumption, but I'm inclined to side with you on this one. I don't think any outgoing US administration (even the Obama one) would be willing to risk entering the history books as the one that ignited WW3.

With this in mind, I have to say thank God Hillary is not the current US President. That bitch would have no reservations about doing something provocative just to make a name of herself.

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US and NATO will not escalate during an election year. Saudi and Turkey and the sunni fucks are on their own for now.

Russia has about 11 months to shore up their gains and secure Assad, so by the time a new president might want to intervene, it would be too late.

For now, the wildcard is how desperate Saudi Arabia and Israel are to provoke Russia.

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(02-13-2016 03:49 PM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  For now, the wildcard is how desperate Saudi Arabia and Israel are to provoke Russia.

Turkey and SA have to go in, Israel will stand on sideline and sponsor new Kurdish state, making sure they get as much territory and influence as possible.

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Turkey just started shelling YPG and SAA today. US not supportive, urging Turkey to stop.

https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/69...7957578754

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/698600206997327872

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Erdogan is probably the first leader after Tito who gave the middle finger to US and Russia at the same time. Interesting.... Let's see how this pans out.

Things are more complicated in Syria than you think

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(02-13-2016 03:18 PM)911Turbo Wrote:  Saudi Arabias military budget is higher than Russias. Russia spends 60 billion, while SA spends 75-80.bn.
Granted they don't make their own toys like Russia, they buy it from uncle sam. Don't take SA lightly because they don't have access to nukes, they have so much money to throw around that they can buy nukes from the black market. Pakistan and North Korea seem likely suppliers. I'm sure Kim Jongs cousins might sell the arabs nukes if they threw 2-3bn to them under the table.

The Saudis have the largest paper army in the world. It's a degenerate culture that only has money and oil, not real world technology and engineering capabilities.

They got stopped in Yemen. Russia would annilate them and have a lot of nice, unused US equipment to use.

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(02-13-2016 02:25 PM)911Turbo Wrote:  

(02-13-2016 05:26 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  911 Turbo, most of the migrants are not actual refugees and are not Syrian at all (heck, many are not even Arab!). The migrant crisis is something that is fully under the control of Europe, since Europe gets to decide whether to give money to migrants, whether to have secure borders, and whether to enforce laws and deport criminals and other unwanted people. Since Europe is currently ruled by globalist scum intent on destroying Europe, Europe remains wide open. But it is by its own choice, not because of Putin, Obama or anyone else.

The whole idea that Putin is somehow "punishing Europe by destabilizing Syria and sending them refugees" is absurd. You can only punish someone who wants to be punished.

I said it before, and I'll say it again. The man route the "refugees" are using goes through Turkey. If you go to the seaside resort of Bodrum, you will see that there are thousands of Syrians there buying life jackets and boats.

And when it comes to globalists, I think people are being paranoid here. Globalists do not benefit from an invasion like this. They need people who work, not live off welfare.

A: Doesn't mean the globalists themselves are that smart. Most economist types I've run into are running around touting how it's a good thing because it helps Europe increase their labor pool and make up for their gray bomb.

B: Merkel is doing it because of "God's Will".



As I've mentioned before, I have another acquaintance who is very deep into esoteric research and he has been predicting that a US-Russia World War 3 will break out in the middle east no later than 2024.

Also he told me that back in 2012.

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(02-13-2016 05:00 PM)kleyau Wrote:  The Saudis have the largest paper army in the world. It's a degenerate culture that only has money and oil, not real world technology and engineering capabilities.

They got stopped in Yemen. Russia would annilate them and have a lot of nice, unused US equipment to use.

Militias sponsored from Iran can actually challenge the Saudi "army."

There have been close to 500,000 deaths so far from the Syrian conflict, I think its probable it will reach over a million fairly soon once Turkey/SA fully commit.
I still think this will not be the ultimate middle eastern war, this is whats to come in 5-10 years come when they finally have an all out "great war" similar to Europe which will lead to fall of Kingdoms/Theocracies.

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(02-13-2016 04:50 PM)911Turbo Wrote:  Erdogan is probably the first leader after Tito who gave the middle finger to US and Russia at the same time. Interesting.... Let's see how this pans out.

Good catch! But at least we Yugoslavs got a nice and prosperous country as a result of that. Erdogan, however, is more likely to get scorched earth.

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(02-13-2016 06:16 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

(02-13-2016 04:50 PM)911Turbo Wrote:  Erdogan is probably the first leader after Tito who gave the middle finger to US and Russia at the same time. Interesting.... Let's see how this pans out.

Good catch! But at least we Yugoslavs got a nice and prosperous country as a result of that. Erdogan, however, is more likely to get scorched earth.

I wouldn't rule anything out. Most people are not analyzing the situation objectively. Erdogan has managed to be the president of a secular country for 15 years as an islamist He evaded several coup attempts, managed to gain control of the secular military. He has defeated the deep state. The man is smarter than you think.

I've been following this guy very closely for 5 years. He is one of the smartest tacticians I've seen after Otto von Bismarck. It is not easy to remain the president as an islamist in a country where military coups are the norm.

We will see very interesting developments in the near future.

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(02-13-2016 06:42 PM)911Turbo Wrote:  

(02-13-2016 06:16 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

(02-13-2016 04:50 PM)911Turbo Wrote:  Erdogan is probably the first leader after Tito who gave the middle finger to US and Russia at the same time. Interesting.... Let's see how this pans out.

Good catch! But at least we Yugoslavs got a nice and prosperous country as a result of that. Erdogan, however, is more likely to get scorched earth.

I wouldn't rule anything out. Most people are not analyzing the situation objectively. Erdogan has managed to be the president of a secular country for 15 years as an islamist He evaded several coup attempts, managed to gain control of the secular military. He has defeated the deep state. The man is smarter than you think.

I've been following this guy very closely for 5 years. He is one of the smartest tacticians I've seen after Otto von Bismarck. It is not easy to remain the president as an islamist in a country where military coups are the norm.

We will see very interesting developments in the near future.

I've directly worked with the Turkish army in Afghanistan. Supervisors, peers, subordinates, you name it in a NATO environment. They are by far the worst and most useless military member of NATO.

Turkey couldn't fight their way out of a cardboard box if Russia decides to bring it . Erdogan might be a successful politician, but his military is complete shit.

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(02-12-2016 09:05 AM)Samseau Wrote:  The big conclusion for me, personally, is just how much Obama has fucked up the world. America was the lynchpin holding back wars everywhere. Destabilizing the Middle East and leaving a power vacuum by evacuating Iraq has created a situation that is spiraling out of control. Every ME country is now sending troops into Syria and Iraq to fight for control. Europe is now being invaded while all the Middle Eastern powers go to war each other. Civil War will break out in Europe this year or the next. I also expect to see China and Japan get violent, as well as the Koreas, as America goes bankrupt.

Unlike the last World Wars, WW3 will be characterized by simultaneous Civil Wars, in addition to nation states battling each other, so I suspect the final death tolls will be much, much higher than in WW2. Civil Wars are usually the most violent and destructive as there are no safe zones.

Obama is going down as one of the worst, most corrupt men in history.

Samseau this is factually wrong.

For one, it was George Bush Jr. that sent troops to Iraq with insubstantial evidence that Saddam Hussein was creating weapons of mass destruction. So it was the Bush administration driven by imperialism and nation building that led to this epic disaster.

The withdrawal process was put together and ratified by the Bush administration: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.%E2%80...Agreement.

The blame lies entirely at the feet of the Bush administration and his cronies, not the Obama administration.

I do not agree with every decision that Barack Obama makes, but we need to be grounded in facts and reality when making strong claims against a man's reputation.

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On another note, Obama has been doing pretty much nothing lately with regards to helping the Syrian "rebels".

This signals to me that Obama has started to slowly realize that Russia was right all along in helping Assad regain his territory with regards to maintaining the long term stability of Syria.

Also, it is patently obvious that these rebels are practically identical to ISIS. They are more of these Sunni Wahhabi freakazoids that terrorize the Middle East and the same freakazoids who have begun to terrorize Europe now. The rebels need to be destroyed or surrender, bottom line.

I like the idea of setting up a transitional government after Assad regains all of the territory. Setting term limits for the president and allowing Assad to run in a general election after ISIS is expelled sounds like a great idea to me.

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Samseau this is factually wrong.

For one, it was George Bush Jr. that sent troops to Iraq with insubstantial evidence that Saddam Hussein was creating weapons of mass destruction. So it was the Bush administration driven by imperialism and nation building that led to this epic disaster.

The withdrawal process was put together and ratified by the Bush administration: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.%E2%80...Agreement.

The blame lies entirely at the feet of the Bush administration and his cronies, not the Obama administration.

I do not agree with every decision that Barack Obama makes, but we need to be grounded in facts and reality when making strong claims against a man's reputation.

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On another note, Obama has been doing pretty much nothing lately with regards to helping the Syrian "rebels".

This signals to me that Obama has started to slowly realize that Russia was right all along in helping Assad regain his territory with regards to maintaining the long term stability of Syria.

Also, it is patently obvious that these rebels are practically identical to ISIS. They are more of these Sunni Wahhabi freakazoids that terrorize the Middle East and the same freakazoids who have begun to terrorize Europe now. The rebels need to be destroyed or surrender, bottom line.

I like the idea of setting up a transitional government after Assad regains all of the territory. Setting term limits for the president and allowing Assad to run in a general election after ISIS is expelled sounds like a great idea to me.
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Obama allowed the rise of ISIS by not finishing the transition in Iraq and naming Assad a marked man.

The dude ran on an implied no war platform. He called for change yet he continued to meddle in the ME and actually made it worse by supporting a Syrian rebel movement.

A George Bush Iraq was better than the Obama Iraq. Yes, bush should have never been there to begin with but Obama should have executed a longer term exit strategy.

Obama just approved another $500 mil in aid for the "moderate rebels", hes doing plenty.

Assad isn't going to regain all the territory just to open leadership back up to a vote.

End result lesson irregardless of the whomever the president is is that you don't try to export political structures to the middle east, it doesnt work. We aren't the Saudi's bodyguards, if they want to dominate the ME, they need to do it themselves.

And Iran is saying, nah, bro, you done here.

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Well erdogan has Saudi troops in Turkey waiting and is bombing Kurdish Syrians now who cooperate with Syrian army and Russia.. Which are backed even by the USA.

In Munich was a security meeting between Russia and USA and a short duration after they started to bomb them.. As if it's not enough that they murder their own Kurds or beat them up in Germany..

And while doing that he builds refugee camps on Syrian ground to secure more land.. What kind of makes them a meat shield.

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(02-13-2016 03:18 PM)911Turbo Wrote:  Saudi Arabias military budget is higher than Russias. Russia spends 60 billion, while SA spends 75-80.bn.
Granted they don't make their own toys like Russia, they buy it from uncle sam. Don't take SA lightly because they don't have access to nukes, they have so much money to throw around that they can buy nukes from the black market. Pakistan and North Korea seem likely suppliers. I'm sure Kim Jongs cousins might sell the arabs nukes if they threw 2-3bn to them under the table.

And the SA army got ground to a stand still in Yemen. Like another poster said, the SA army is the biggest paper tiger in the world. And even in this Tom Clancy scenario of yours where they would buy the nukes on black market, what do you think they would achieve with a couple of warheads?

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I'm calling it now. They'll continue to provoke Syria/Russia in this way until they pretty much have the option between hitting back or just getting pushed around like a nerd in a school-bathroom. At those meetings, the US will tell Russia it's OK to hit back. When they do, it's open season. This strategy has been used at least twice before to cause a big and a huge war.

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