Post: #1

Even though people can read and over-read into the whole 'nice guys vs bad boys' or 'betas versus alphas' dichotomy, at its core I believe this is the underlying principle.

I believe the one character trait more attractive to women than anything else is courage. (And courage by itself isn't moral or immoral, but it's still the primary trait that women are designed to find attractive).

Like it or not a woman's going to be more attracted to a courageous man who is evil, than a cowardly man who is not evil (this is why even Charles Manson can get a girlfriend but betas can't).

On the flip side beauty and submissive charm are the traits that men are hardwired to find attractive, and likewise these traits on their own aren't moral or immoral (this is why men would rather sleep with a hot girl at the club than... Queen Elizabeth the II even if she's an allegedly "better person").

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The one thing pretty much every variety of 'nice guy' or 'beta' has in common is a lack of courage, and confusing conscience with cowardice, which is why they aren't even "nice" to begin with, just afraid of consequences.

Nice guys simply do 'nice things' but not based on any real moral principles, just out of fear of rejection, consequences, disapproval, etc - and many of them would have no actual moral problem with being a jerk if they knew they would get away with it. They then try to overcompensate for their insecurity by claiming it's about "virtue".

In reality nice guys are just "passively amoral" as opposed to jerks who are "actively amoral". So this essentially makes them the virtuous equivalent of the jerk, but minus the courage:

Let's say a nice guy and a jerk were each contemplating shoplifting a TV from a department store - in reality neither of them had a moral problem with it - the jerk however went along with it because he didn't fear consequences, while the nice guy simply didn't because he was afraid of getting in trouble. (But if he knew for 100% certainty that he wouldn't get in trouble, he would've shunned his fake 'moral' principles and lifted the TV in a heartbeat).

From a virtuous POV, this ironically makes him slightly worse than the jerk - because rather than a genuinely good guy, he's simply a jerk at heart who doesn't even have the brains or ambition to even become a jerk; he's simply a jerk who failed at being one rather than succeeded.

In the long run, nice guys are the kind of guys who would have stood buy and helped the gestapo round up the Jews while at the same time trying to convince themselves that it's "moral" just because the state or society of the time was permitting it.

So even from a purely consequentalist perspective, nice guys are responsible for more evil in history than jerks are - because while the worst jerks might commit crimes such as rape or murder, the worst nice guys are the ones responsible for allowing people like Hitler and Stalin to come into power, resulting in the deaths of millions more people than any lone serial killer or rapist ever has. In a world where every guy was a jerk, there would be much less bloodshed and violence, because jerks would stand their ground and fight it out, rather stand by while jerks like Hitler raped their wives and killed their sons. And yes, most of the so-called nice guys you see today lamenting their failure with women would easily vote a new Hitler or Stalin into power if they thought it would "get them laid".

Post: #2

I wouldn't steal a TV because who watches TV anymore?? You can watch what you want online. And being a business owner myself I would not steal a TV because the department store is probably having a hard time competing with online sellers and I like to see local businesses succeed.

It helps maintain a sense of local community.

Post: #3

(01-27-2016 12:36 PM)Guitarman Wrote:  I wouldn't steal a TV because who watches TV anymore?? You can watch what you want online. And being a business owner myself I would not steal a TV because the department store is probably having a hard time competing with online sellers and I like to see local businesses succeed.

It helps maintain a sense of local community.

Right, that's the difference between a "nice guy" and a guy with genuine principles.

You can actually articulate why you genuinely believe the behavior is wrong.

But if you asked the actual nice guy to describe why he believes stealing is bad, he'd just give canned answers such as "I don't want to go to jail", "It's common sense", "The Bible says so", etc. And show that he doesn't even know why he believes what he believes, he's rather just parroting what he's heard other people say without giving it any thought.

Post: #4

That's not a "nice guy" that's just someone who is stupid and cannot think for themselves.

Low intelligence, herd mentality, like Democrat voters.

Post: #5

(01-27-2016 12:59 PM)Guitarman Wrote:  That's not a "nice guy" that's just someone who is stupid and cannot think for themselves.

Low intelligence, herd mentality, like Democrat voters.

But most self-proclaimed 'nice guys' fall into that category.

And then they sit around and whine about "women not appreciating them" when most of their knowledge of dating and women comes from something they heard in Sunday School or watched on a Disney movie when they were 7 years old.

Post: #6

(01-27-2016 12:36 PM)Guitarman Wrote:  I wouldn't steal a TV because who watches TV anymore?? You can watch what you want online. And being a business owner myself I would not steal a TV because the department store is probably having a hard time competing with online sellers and I like to see local businesses succeed.

It helps maintain a sense of local community.

But what does that have to do with the price of tea in china?

EDantes has basically brought up that most "nice guys" are generally just spineless. That is all. That is part of the reason why girls don't like them. It's not necessarily just because they do "nice" things, but its because they have no balls.

Another fault of "nice guys" is that they generally still believe that "chivalry" is a culturally relevant thing in modern gender dynamics and will give special treatment to women who don't deserve it and, subconsciously, don't want it.

Post: #7

Let's say a nice guy and a jerk were each contemplating shoplifting a TV from a department store...

I'm stuck on this part. Why would a guy who self identifies as nice contemplate shoplifting?

Post: #8

^essentially what every "nice guy" thinks about when he sees a hot girl that's taken.

If he could get away with banging her he would. The nice guy would also steal the TV if he could. Still topic is beating a dead horse.

Post: #9

(01-27-2016 08:37 PM)IntBM Wrote:  I'm stuck on this part. Why would a guy who self identifies as nice contemplate shoplifting?

Why would a Catholic priest contemplate diddling little boys?

Most self-proclaimed "nice guys" are just pretending to be nice out of resignation or fear, but would turn 'jerk' in a heartbeat if they knew it would have no risk.

Post: #10

An actual guy who is kind and puts everyone else before him wont expect or want to be recognised for it.

Our new generation in the western society is full of expectant self-entitled feminine pussies

My dad left Iran when he was 16, with only 100 dollars, and now he is settled in the UK and we are well off. I look up to him as kind of a role model.

He never asked for anything, his motto was "I get in life what I deserve"

I know this has nothing to do with game but thought it relates to how young males are turning out today, so I will post it