Post: #1

Anybody speak or taken courses in German? I took a class this fall to bone up on the language, had a good time so I'm going to keep going. Anybody else learned the language (or speak it natively) have any hints or advice for getting better?

I've always dug German culture and loved visiting Berlin, Munich and Vienna when abroad. Thinking about expatriating to see what living in Europe is like and want to do it right speaking the language...speaking German covers three of the richest countries in Europe with high standards of living, functional social services, easy transport anywhere else on the continent, and (until recently in Germany's case) limited exposure to migratory discord.

Post: #2

One of the challenges is that many Germans speak very good English, so it's a bit of a disincentive and you'll often have them answer in English if your German isn't up to snuff.

I always liked the sound of the German language, though. I was doing Duolingo for a while.

Post: #3

(12-24-2015 12:25 AM)RexImperator Wrote:  One of the challenges is that many Germans speak very good English, so it's a bit of a disincentive and you'll often have them answer in English if your German isn't up to snuff.

I definitely found that in Berlin and Vienna - my attempts at low-grade German were met with immediate English replies, no attitude or nothing, just ready to speak in a language we both knew. A buddy of mine who speaks German told me the secret to learning it is "move to Germany and get a gf who doesn't speak much English."

Post: #4

I took a couple of German courses in university and did a brief internship in Germany, and managed to pick up basic conversational German. Although it's been a while and I've forgotten a lot of vocabulary and grammar, I found the language itself to be relatively easy to learn, compared to, say, French.

In my opinion, the key to quickly being able to communicate in any language is to imitate a local's pronunciation and tonality from the start, so you are able to immediately establish good pronunciation habits with your larynx/mouth. You see tons of Americans/Canadians who have learned French/Spanish with great grammar and vocabulary but when they speak it literally sounds like they are all rednecks. I think it's absolutely key to build the habit of imitating the sounds of a language as soon as you start learning it. It sets you off on the right path and gives you the greatest utility -- speaking.

This is especially effective for German because it is a language where the pronunciation follows very reliable patterns (German efficiency and order hah) -- you will not see any curveballs thrown at you like in English or French. My German is pretty rusty now but I don't think you ever have to worry about silent letters or how a vowel sound is pronounced depending on where it is in a word. In English you might wonder how an "a" is pronounced in "masturbate", but in German, an "a" is always going to be an "ah" sound, just like how "e", "o", "u", "ä", "ö", "ë", "ü", "ie", "ei" are always pronounced the same way, regardless of whatever consonants are on either side.

For me what I did to learn the pronunciation when I first started was to go find the language's alphabet on Wikipedia, and learn the pronunciation of each letter and letter combination. Be mindful to distinguish slightly dyslexic combinations like "ei" and "ie" -- "ie" is always pronounced like "eee" while "ei" is always pronounced like "eye". Once you've remembered the individual sounds, practice reading words out loud and you will quickly master the pronunciation of German words. Following this method, I learned how to pronounce any Hungarian word I saw during my 1-week stay in Budapest. I knew no more than 7 Hungarian phrases but I could say every single one of them really well and be easily understood, and the local girls were much more approachable as a result of that.

Honestly, after you can properly speak the sounds of a language, all that's left is just some old fashioned blood and sweat. The grammar rules can be learned from any book or the internet. German grammar is a bit complicated with the extra neutral gender and several different cases (there is something called "dativ" or dative, which can be confusing), but it shouldn't take too longer to get down for the intelligent average RVFer. Apart from that, all you've got is vocabulary really, which obviously comes with seeing more words and repeating more words. Luckily for us English speakers, there are many similarities between these Anglo-Saxony languages and a decent portion of German words are very similar to their English counterparts. e.g. pervert vs Perverse

The toughest part of German, for me, is simply remembering the genders of words and what articles/conjugations to use. But then again, if you are simply trying to communicate verbally, this won't matter. People will understand what you are saying even if you keep on saying "deine Arsch" instead of "deiner Arsch".

Good luck on your learning journey. I love the sound of German and found learning German to be quite enjoyable. You will get extra bad ass points when you randomly bust out your Deutsch skills in a North American city, especially in the presence of all these girls who "love to work out and travel".

Post: #5

(12-24-2015 12:43 AM)BadgerHut Wrote:  

(12-24-2015 12:25 AM)RexImperator Wrote:  One of the challenges is that many Germans speak very good English, so it's a bit of a disincentive and you'll often have them answer in English if your German isn't up to snuff.

I definitely found that in Berlin and Vienna - my attempts at low-grade German were met with immediate English replies, no attitude or nothing, just ready to speak in a language we both knew. A buddy of mine who speaks German told me the secret to learning it is "move to Germany and get a gf who doesn't speak much English."

This is true. Germans are some of the most educated people on the planet and the majority of people under 30-35 are quite fluent in English or will at least understand what you say.

A good way to practice is to talk to older people, especially in the smaller towns and villages. Germany is dotted with very local and traditional small towns and villages that are also quite scenic, with castles and hills/mountains, especially in places like Baden-Wuerttemberg, Rhein-Palatinate, and parts of Bayern. I lived in a town near the black forest and found most locals in the villages to know very little if any English. I think if you made a trip to Germany or Austria it wouldn't be a bad idea to take a break from game every couple of days and hop on the train to go to some random town, sit down at a local watering hole and try to speak with your server or local guests. Makes you also appreciate the lifestyle.

Post: #6

Quote:A good way to practice is to talk to older people, especially in the smaller towns and villages.

I was going to suggest that myself. I've found that true when speaking with older people, even in Switzerland.

Post: #7

I'm a huge fan of the Michel Thomas Method. You can find some of the lessons on youtube, to get a flavour.

Post: #8

German is my mother tongue, I always thought it must be a nightmare to learn as a foreign language, because the grammar rules are very difficult. But pronunciation is easy and follows a very reliable pattern, that's true.

I can only recommend what I would recommend for all other languages too: First, learn according to your personality type. Are you a very analytical guy, do you like to fully understand things before diving into them? Then start out with textbooks and vocabulary. Are you very extroverted and enjoy being around people a lot? Then just go to the country and dive in, without knowing much beforehand.

Vocabulary is just a matter of sitting down on your ass and putting in the time. Grammar can be too, but you need a lot of practice until it becomes second nature to you and you don't have to think about it anymore. Like, A LOT. It just takes time to learn a language well.

I read somewhere that a room full of people speaking German sounds like a running machine... which is true. It's a mechanical language, not a smooth and beautiful language. But I love it not only because it's a part of what I am, but also because it's a great language to play around with, double meanings, word games, etc... Have fun learning it (if possible, lol)!

Post: #9

I'm pretty good at German and I've started learning it about 9 months ago.

Coffee break German, duolingo, and vocabulary books really helped me. I would def suggest coffee break German podcast so you are able to listen to how words are pronounced and the general flow of the sentences.

Post: #10

German is also my mother tongue. I think one thing that would help you and helps generally when trying to learn languages, is to really immerse yourself into the music and movies in the language you want to learn. I´m trying the same with Russian-language movies/series and music at the moment. For learning German, here you have an overview about German music and film and can decide which bands/movies seem interesting to you and check some of them out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinema_of_Germany
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_of_Germany

Of course, you could also watch German versions of English-speaking movies with subtitles.

If it´s possible, a language exchange with a native speaker is also very good option for fast learning progress.

Post: #11

Here are some suggestions:

1. Use the LEO dictionary, available online and as an app. It is run by a University and is a great resource.

2. One of the best learning aids is the "Sags Besser" series

3. There are some very good/interesting German films out there. A lot of WWII stuff of course (Der Untergang etc.). I always liked the film Das Experiment, and also Goodbye Lenin and the Lives of Others (which are in German).

4. Xavier Naidoo is a very popular soul/R&B type singer. He has some sappy women are wonderful stuff but I can't help liking it anyway, and the words are catchy and easily understood which helps the language learning.

Post: #12

(12-24-2015 07:50 AM)Mentavious Wrote:  I'm pretty good at German and I've started learning it about 9 months ago.

Coffee break German, duolingo, and vocabulary books really helped me. I would def suggest coffee break German podcast so you are able to listen to how words are pronounced and the general flow of the sentences.

Awesome, been looking for some good podcast-type resources. btw I bought my tickets on a sale you posted to the int'l sale thread, so...thanks.

Post: #13

Great advice from fellow native speakers. Grammar and prepositions can be very tough. Stay strong, don't give up.

And don't expect to sound like a native speaker, even when you think you're actually quite good.Germans will always know you're not.

Practice is key. Watch movies, Tv-shows, german TV.
Dont't be afraid to speak, even if you don't find the right words. People will help you. They will appreciate the effort you take.

Viel Spaß und leg' sie alle flach. ???

Post: #14

(12-24-2015 12:43 AM)BadgerHut Wrote:  

(12-24-2015 12:25 AM)RexImperator Wrote:  One of the challenges is that many Germans speak very good English, so it's a bit of a disincentive and you'll often have them answer in English if your German isn't up to snuff.

A buddy of mine who speaks German told me the secret to learning it is "move to the country and get a gf who doesn't speak much English."

This is the secret to learning any language.

Post: #15

I am a German speaker. One challenge with German is the motivation. If you have that then it should work out though that is true for every language. One reason I don´t love German to much is I don´t like German music. It just sounds not good for me that makes it difficult to "love" it. On the other hand if you love intellectual stuff you might feel quite at home with German. I think German sounds more serious than English. I come from a migrant family. The way I learned German at the beginning was with Marvel comic books. Also some American movies sound awesome in German. I like for example the Nicholson scene in "A few good men - Eine Frage der Ehre" in German.

Watching your favorite American series in German might help too.

Post: #16

I started learnign German from the 5th grade, then through highschool to University business German level. Worked in Switzerland and as translator for the Bundersheer during my own military service and nowadays also work in German as the situation requires. If you're interested in specifics, you can PM me since it's a broad subject, but below are my tips:

1) You will never learn to understand or speak the vocal language (referring to Hochdeutsch here, not the separate dialects) unless you hear it. Watch TV-series, especially ones with young people. They will usually speak the "street"-version ofthe language that most people will speak. You'll notice that most young people tend to swallow the suffixes and muble/cut off some prefixes and articles. Dem, den and der sound very similar when spoken quickly. I personally also speak this way. German is a very fluid, quick language with rapid changes in tonality and octaves, so unless you listen to it and practice, you'll be fucking lost. This was my biggest hurdle because most teachers in Finland do not speak German the way Germans speak it.

2) You will need to speak it. Preferably with other Germans. You won't learn proper pronunciation and smooth transitions between words and sentences unless you do.

3) In order to learn vocabulary from a specific field, read articles related to it. Books are also good, but articles contain more up-to-date Wortschatz and have language that's better suited for everyday interactions in general. Since German vocabulary can be fucking hilarious sometimes, this is the best way I've discovered to do this, especially related to business topics. For me, there's just no other way since words with no context are useless and quickly forgotten.

4) After you've read an article, summarize it on paper, in German. It's not a cure-for-all, but summaries help you absorb and process information in German and this will eventually allow you to also have thought processes in German when required. This then helps in creation of new information and conversations.

5) Don't worry about speaking too slow or haltingly at first. "Speed is a lack of useless processes". Once you can smooth over articles, know how to pronounce words properly from reading them and make conversational sentences without repeating phrases contantly, it starts to come more and more naturally since there will be phrases you use more often.

Cheers and good luck. German is really useful in Europe for business and pleasure.

Post: #17

(12-26-2015 02:55 PM)Merris Wrote:  I started learnign German from the 5th grade, then through highschool to University business German level. Worked in Switzerland and as translator for the Bundersheer during my own military service and nowadays also work in German as the situation requires. If you're interested in specifics, you can PM me since it's a broad subject, but below are my tips:

1) You will never learn to understand or speak the vocal language (referring to Hochdeutsch here, not the separate dialects) unless you hear it. Watch TV-series, especially ones with young people. They will usually speak the "street"-version ofthe language that most people will speak. You'll notice that most young people tend to swallow the suffixes and muble/cut off some prefixes and articles. Dem, den and der sound very similar when spoken quickly. I personally also speak this way. German is a very fluid, quick language with rapid changes in tonality and octaves, so unless you listen to it and practice, you'll be fucking lost. This was my biggest hurdle because most teachers in Finland do not speak German the way Germans speak it.

2) You will need to speak it. Preferably with other Germans. You won't learn proper pronunciation and smooth transitions between words and sentences unless you do.

3) In order to learn vocabulary from a specific field, read articles related to it. Books are also good, but articles contain more up-to-date Wortschatz and have language that's better suited for everyday interactions in general. Since German vocabulary can be fucking hilarious sometimes, this is the best way I've discovered to do this, especially related to business topics. For me, there's just no other way since words with no context are useless and quickly forgotten.

4) After you've read an article, summarize it on paper, in German. It's not a cure-for-all, but summaries help you absorb and process information in German and this will eventually allow you to also have thought processes in German when required. This then helps in creation of new information and conversations.

5) Don't worry about speaking too slow or haltingly at first. "Speed is a lack of useless processes". Once you can smooth over articles, know how to pronounce words properly from reading them and make conversational sentences without repeating phrases contantly, it starts to come more and more naturally since there will be phrases you use more often.

Cheers and good luck. German is really useful in Europe for business and pleasure.

Thanks for the great tips. Btw had a fine time in Helsinki when I was there for 2 days earlier this year. Made a lot of friends in the hotel sauna.

Post: #18

What I know from German learners, it can be tricky because a lot of Germans just switch into english when your German is not that fluent. There you have to call them out and demand that they speak German with you.
Furthermore, keep in mind that you will mostly never "fit in" flutend. Because of all the different dialects in Germany, its easy to spot when you are not from that area. When I'm in an other area, people notice it too. But you will get along.

I found this video, its more about the German accent when speaking english but explains a few good differences in the language.

Post: #19

I highly recommend duolingo. It's great for grammar. I've used it to keep my German from getting rusty. I took German throughout high school and am conversational at best. Duolingo is fun and let's you compete with yourself.

I wouldn't recommend it as your only tool though. Use podcasts, videos, books, and other resources to complement it. I personally like to read children's books online and look up words I don't know on a translator.

Post: #20

(12-27-2015 06:34 AM)Parzival Wrote:  What I know from German learners, it can be tricky because a lot of Germans just switch into english when your German is not that fluent. There you have to call them out and demand that they speak German with you.
Furthermore, keep in mind that you will mostly never "fit in" flutend. Because of all the different dialects in Germany, its easy to spot when you are not from that area. When I'm in an other area, people notice it too. But you will get along.

I found this video, its more about the German accent when speaking english but explains a few good differences in the language.

Thanks Parzival. This is an interesting and useful video for people like myself who have some German but want to improve.
The girl does quite a good job of explaining differences between how we pronounce things in German and English.
As an aside, at the end of the video, when she says "I just want to say as well that I mean no offence to German speakers or English speakers!"
This is so incredibly typical of the European millennial generation that she apologises for something that no sane person would ever find offensive!
Reminds me of a German girl I used to bang who was so incredible politically correct, she berated me for not policing my language like she did, it irritated me no end.
Ok, rant over, as you were!

Post: #21

(12-24-2015 12:43 AM)BadgerHut Wrote:  

(12-24-2015 12:25 AM)RexImperator Wrote:  One of the challenges is that many Germans speak very good English, so it's a bit of a disincentive and you'll often have them answer in English if your German isn't up to snuff.

I definitely found that in Berlin and Vienna - my attempts at low-grade German were met with immediate English replies, no attitude or nothing, just ready to speak in a language we both knew. A buddy of mine who speaks German told me the secret to learning it is "move to Germany and get a gf who doesn't speak much English."

I can certainly vouch for the effectiveness of the long-haired dictionary method. When I studied abroad in Berlin I dated a German girl for 6 months. It certainly made me want to learn German more and made it easier to pay attention in class. She even wrote me a dirty story, entirely in German, with lots of words I had to look up. I'll PM it to you, if you like.

More thoughts later.

G

Post: #22

I’ve been learning German for the past year. Here’s my advice based on what worked for me (having filtered out what didn’t). Like a training routine, try to keep a log of what you do to avoid kidding yourself about how much effort you’re making. Your first aim should simply be to set up good/realistic habits and get motivated. Learning the grammar is only one part of it, and can be done easily enough by working consistently through a decent course book and completing set exercises on each topic (I recommend Hammer's Grammar Grammar and Usage for a no-stone-unturned course).

1. Reading (passive)
This is a daily habit you need to get into, even just for 15 minutes before you go to sleep. The internet has everything you need. Comic books are excellent as the language is often more straightforward and you’re reading dialogues. The illustrations provide clues to context and vocabulary meaning. You can easily get the entire Asterix and Tintin back catalogues as PDFs.
Try to vary your reading habits though - sometimes practise reading for speed and gist, at other times try to mouth the words for pronunciation practice, and (most usefully in my opinion) read actively by slowly highlighting new vocabulary and noting the context in which it was used. You could add new words to your Anki or Genius decks if you’re that way inclined. Read actively: keep asking yourself why certain language structures were used. Why this tense? Why this case? Annotate the hell out of it in the margins, and then read through it again with more momentum. Reading doesn’t necessarily have to be traditional texts. Mix things up e.g. install old Lucasarts adventure games in German on your iphone for long journeys (Monkey Island, Grim Fandango or anything off Scummvm). Online content can help, even those godawful listicle websites have their uses. A lot of online time is spent dumb-browsing trash, so you might as well turn this habit into something useful by reading German language trash instead. Use the Lingro website to help you with unknown vocabulary (although the aforementioned Leo app is hard to beat).

Here are some texts to get you started. Be warned, some of the original Grimm tales hit home some hard truths!

http://germanstories.vcu.edu/

http://www.grimmstories.com/de/grimm_maerchen/index

http://learnoutlive.com/learn-german-on-...ree-books/

2. Writing (active)
I find it hard to motivate myself on this one. Jumping straight into writing free-writing in German is tough. Translation of texts is slightly easier (just use any duel-reader and cover one side up). Since you’ll find yourself repeatedly expressing the same ideas and details over and over again (such as who you are and what you do) you might want to get these down into writing and refine them over time. This will make it much easier to introduce yourself and talk about it. Use Lang-8 to find someone to proofread and give feedback on what you write. The idea above of summarising articles is a very worthwhile one too. There are various "Wir Sprechen Deutsch" Whatsapp groups now exclusively for people practising their German but I’ve no idea if these are useful. Some form of correspondence will help motivate you to keep in contact and write.

3. Listening/watching (passive)
Podcasts are by far the easiest and most effective habit to get into, especially if you work them into your morning routine (making/eating breakfast or going to work). That’s another easy 10-15 minutes of German practice a day. If you’re a beginner, start with Langsam Gesprochene Nachrichten, using the transcript to help you (but move on as soon as you can, it can be torture at times).

http://www.dw.com/de/deutsch-lernen/nachrichten/s-8030

The Podclub app has an easy series called Andrea Erzählt, also with transcripts.

http://www.podclub.ch/sendungen/andrea-erzaehlt-d

You should notice rapid progress with these, and after a few months of daily podcasts you’ll be ready to try something harder (always push yourself and avoid lingering at a comfortable plateau). I recommend the ARD.de Tagesschau podcast (or even better, its online video with subtitles).

http://www.tagesschau.de/

The SRF Heute Morgen podcasts are surprisingly easy to follow but the content is more specific to Switzerland.

Being able to watch and follow TV shows in German should be a medium to long-term goal, and is noticeably harder than listening to podcasts. A lot of people start off with the ridiculous but easy Deutsch Lernen Extra Auf (the whole series is on YouTube).

https://youtu.be/Kd_Nxmm4cYQ?list=PLMf--...5ZcCaWTlWP

I also recommend Türkisch fur Anfänger, with transcripts http://www.diemitdemforum.de/viewforum.php?f=48,

A lot of German speakers drop everything every Sunday evening to watch the detective series Tatort and it’s spin off Der Tatortreiniger.

http://www.daserste.de/unterhaltung/krim...index.html

My favourite is Deutschland von Oben

http://www.zdf.de/ZDFmediathek/beitrag/v...20--in-HD!

Then you have Winnetou, Weissensee, Stromberg, Doctor’s Diary, Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter, and Im Angesicht des Verbrechens...

I would make a checklist of the following movies and tick them off as you go:

Das Leben Der Anderen
Das Experiment
Die Fetten Jahren Sind Vorbei (The Educators)
Goodbye Lenin
Lola Rennt (Run Lola Run)
Knocking on Heaven’s Door
The Baader Meinhof Complex
Der Himmel Über Berlin (Wings of Desire)
Auf der Anderen Seite (The Edge of Heaven)
Hitlerjungen Salomon (Europa Europa)
The Wave
Downfall
Das Boot
Wetlands (Feuchtgebiete)
Esler. Die Mörder Sind Unter Uns
Free Rainer - dein Fernseher Lügt
Asterix im Land der Götter

4. Speaking (active)
As mentioned above, sort out your pronunciation from the start. I made the mistake of not doing this when I Iearned French, which meant several years into the process I had to go back and correct the bad habits I’d picked up and reinforced. Read up on the rules first, practise them for an hour or two by yourself, then book a couple of sessions with a native speaker tutor to go over them with you. Insist that they be very strict with you about getting the sounds right. After you master the individual sounds right, move on to which syllables to stress. Again there are clear rules on this (e.g. probIEren). Finally, work on the broader “sentence music” i.e. the rhythm of longer phrases and how to time rising/falling intonation. This process won’t take long, but will pay dividends. A bonus of perfecting your pronunciation early is that people will compliment you on it and this will help to motivate you (it’s the main thing people notice when you talk to them in their language and almost the only thing they can comment on. I never hear people tell learners “Gee your conjugation of irregular verbs is really impressive!”). After that it’s a matter of talking as much as possible and paying attention to recurring phrases that native speakers use (note these down and build up a bank of them if possible). The battle is won by speaking as much as possible and from as early on as possible, don’t shy away from it or make excuses. The only way to get better at speaking a language is to SPEAK it! Even talking to yourself is better than nothing… In the very early stages it’s fine to talk to other learners (less intimidating and they’ll be making mistakes too) but try to set up a tandem asap.

There’s a great wealth of stuff here:

https://www.kcl.ac.uk/artshums/depts/ger...source.pdf

Frohes neues Jahr!

Post: #23

@Barraclough Vielen Dank fuer diesen Post! This is great information, just what I need.