Post: #26

By the way, don't overdo it.

"...they are more likely to be rejected for competitive roles requiring individual talent such as sales and investment banking..."

Post: #27

(12-09-2015 01:34 PM)BDawg Wrote:  By the way, don't overdo it.

"...they are more likely to be rejected for competitive roles requiring individual talent such as sales and investment banking..."

48 Laws #1. Dressing better than your boss is just ignorant.

Post: #28

(12-09-2015 03:37 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

(12-09-2015 01:34 PM)BDawg Wrote:  By the way, don't overdo it.

"...they are more likely to be rejected for competitive roles requiring individual talent such as sales and investment banking..."

48 Laws #1. Dressing better than your boss is just ignorant.

Call me ignorant. But that's what I do everyday.

Ray

Post: #29

I realize I'm a few days late to the party, but I'll pitch in my two cents. The bottom line is lean minimalist and everything should look like a solid from a glance at 20 feet away (keep the details DETAILS).

FITTED suit if you can't afford tailored like most entry-level guys - as in you should have a tailor work it over so it sits like a tailored suit. Solid color (navy, dark gray) or fine pinstripe.

No trouser cuffs on your pants. They're not in with the under 45 crowd in finance. When in doubt stay more classic.

Likewise, rarely if ever see younger finance guys with braces. A conservative belt with a smaller gold or silver buckle is fine. If people can guess the brand of your belt from its look, it's not the belt for the interview. No cowboy buckles, no ostentatious LV / Hermes, etc.

White shirt (FITTED), finely patterned tie - it should look like a solid (or at least just a chunky weave) from 20 feet away. You could get away with a fine pinstripe shirt but when in doubt, solid white. No Hermes ties before you get hired. Save the flashier stuff for later. No button down collar. White or no pocket square. Most people save their pocket squares for the after party.

You can do socks with a little panache as long as they are dark and match your suit - funky socks are indeed worn on Wall Street to add style but save them for a few months into your job.

Shoes - nothing that hasn't been said. Leather, shiny without looking like those military dress shoes and nothing that crossed over from running shoes.

When in doubt, lean minimalist.

Post: #30

Fitted suit? Are you hitting a hottest nightclub in LA? Stay away from those best dressed guys in a suit from a nightlife scene, GQ, theSatoriallist.

I think farthest you can go is tailored fit from Banana Republic as far as the shape goes. Don't you dare to wear no shoulder slim blazers

You are going there as a potential employee. You don't have to prove anything with looks. They just know your position right now.
They are the one who's in charge of paying you. Will he get bitter if he sees this young interviewee wearing Panerai watch and he is just wearing modest Movado?
Of course, if you are outstanding in every aspect than other applicants, it wouldn't be a big deal. But why risk?

You need to go different route though if you are meeting a potential business partner or clients. In this case, I won't blame you if you drive a nice car and have nice suits & watches you can't really afford to show you are successful to work out the deal

Post: #31

City geek reporting in.

I've been working in the city (Fenchurch St.) for 4 months now. It was really hard to get a job in the city, but I finally cracked it. I love working there.

Best thing I've bought this year is a waistcoat, followed by real silk ties (no more polyester for me).

I floundered in previous interviews in the city, but I realised dressing well is extremely important to hiring managers. Have good shoes - that is a must. After that the best thing to do is read up about the company and get them talking about the business, not your prospective role. Then you can sit back and relax while they do most of the talking.

My colleagues dress in all kinds of styles, but really the older you are the better you need to dress.

Good luck!

Post: #32

Holy crap. I'm Sorry I'm late.

Blue/Charcoal suit. Black Oxford. White standard collar dress shirt, buttons on the cuff. Plain black soks.

ONLY red or blue ties. NO STRIPES OR GARISH PATTERNS

Post: #33

(12-12-2015 11:48 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  ONLY red or blue ties. NO STRIPES OR GARISH PATTERNS

Do only wear a red tie when you work at Macy's.

Ray

Post: #34

All ib s love a Hermes tie ! And expensive boring shoes like church's

Post: #35

(12-13-2015 06:37 AM)Ray Carlton Wrote:  

(12-12-2015 11:48 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  ONLY red or blue ties. NO STRIPES OR GARISH PATTERNS

Do only wear a red tie when you work at Macy's.

Ray

Not quite. Every actually see investment bankers? Go into BoA or JPM's offices and every junior banker there is going to be wearing a red, blue, or yellow tie.

Post: #36

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

I wore a dark blue suit, light blue shirt, brown tie, brown oxfords and white pocket square. All tailored and in high quality fabrics.
I definitely looked a lot better than all the other attendants; it still baffles me how terrible engineers and scientists dress.

That being said, it didn't help me at all. They were only looking for project managers to evaluate and follow up on the projects (infrastructure, energy,...) to which they issued loans. I was told that the bank employs roughly 200 project engineers and only 10 quants - there were even no representatives from any other departments than project loans.

I wonder why they invited me to the event: my cv clearly states that I'm looking for a quant job and all my experience (and education) is in math and numerical modelling. Well, at least I made some contacts that might serve me in the future.

As a sidenote, the bank's representatives clearly stated they gave priority to hiring women to improve their gender ratios.
Another reason to aim for the quant job, I'm fairly certain there's very little competition from women in that area.

Post: #37

(12-13-2015 01:36 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  

(12-13-2015 06:37 AM)Ray Carlton Wrote:  

(12-12-2015 11:48 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  ONLY red or blue ties. NO STRIPES OR GARISH PATTERNS

Do only wear a red tie when you work at Macy's.

Ray

Not quite. Every actually see investment bankers? Go into BoA or JPM's offices and every junior banker there is going to be wearing a red, blue, or yellow tie.

Most people also wear ill-fitting suits. Does that tell me that it is the best style?

Post: #38

(12-04-2015 06:18 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  Braces are an ESSENTIAL part of getting the trousers of a nice suit to hang properly. If you wear a belt with a suit you should take the belt out the belt loops, and repeatedly flog yourself with it until you promise never to do something so ill-judged again. If your trousers are to hang properly, not pool on the top of your shoe, then you need to wear braces. Do not listen to what some idiot on the internet has told you (he said, tongue in cheek), the guy is wrong.

Pocket square is a good thing, but it should be white (as should your shirt), with only the top 1cm or so showing. Nothing fancy, nothing flashy, a simple square fold to provide a tiny bit of relief against the monotone of your suit.

If you want the full guide:

Black shoes, polished to within an inch of their life. Your shoes must shine.

Socks should match the suit as nearly as possible. No bright colours.

Demure suit, nothing gauche, nothing overly tailored with funky lapels or any of that other 'fashionable' crap pushed by subversive idiots who hate the idea of actually looking like a gentleman.

Your shirt should be white. Black shirts are for sex offenders, don't wear them with a suit (or ever).

Braces - essential in my view. Nothing too wide, shaped, or loud. Should either be generic dark colour, or pair passably with your tie.

White pocket square to match the shirt, only a cm or so showing.

Tie - this is the place to introduce some individual flair should you so wish. Again, something classic with a twist is ideal. I have a variety of dark navy blue ties, with small, discrete animals on, or with spots on. At first glance this is a classic tie with some interest, it is only on close examination that it shows a touch of humour and flair. Dark ties with medium sized pink or white spots look fantastic too. If you wear a black tie, or a skinny tie, you should use it to hang yourself before the interview.

Thanks for the detailed write-up, H1N1.

Something like this but navy? It's a small pic, and you can't see his shoes or braces.

Post: #39

(12-13-2015 05:07 PM)Stun Wrote:  

(12-04-2015 06:18 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  Braces are an ESSENTIAL part of getting the trousers of a nice suit to hang properly. If you wear a belt with a suit you should take the belt out the belt loops, and repeatedly flog yourself with it until you promise never to do something so ill-judged again. If your trousers are to hang properly, not pool on the top of your shoe, then you need to wear braces. Do not listen to what some idiot on the internet has told you (he said, tongue in cheek), the guy is wrong.

Pocket square is a good thing, but it should be white (as should your shirt), with only the top 1cm or so showing. Nothing fancy, nothing flashy, a simple square fold to provide a tiny bit of relief against the monotone of your suit.

If you want the full guide:

Black shoes, polished to within an inch of their life. Your shoes must shine.

Socks should match the suit as nearly as possible. No bright colours.

Demure suit, nothing gauche, nothing overly tailored with funky lapels or any of that other 'fashionable' crap pushed by subversive idiots who hate the idea of actually looking like a gentleman.

Your shirt should be white. Black shirts are for sex offenders, don't wear them with a suit (or ever).

Braces - essential in my view. Nothing too wide, shaped, or loud. Should either be generic dark colour, or pair passably with your tie.

White pocket square to match the shirt, only a cm or so showing.

Tie - this is the place to introduce some individual flair should you so wish. Again, something classic with a twist is ideal. I have a variety of dark navy blue ties, with small, discrete animals on, or with spots on. At first glance this is a classic tie with some interest, it is only on close examination that it shows a touch of humour and flair. Dark ties with medium sized pink or white spots look fantastic too. If you wear a black tie, or a skinny tie, you should use it to hang yourself before the interview.

Thanks for the detailed write-up, H1N1.

Something like this but navy? It's a small pic, and you can't see his shoes or braces.

Sorry mate, not entirely clear what you're asking. What should be navy? Each time I click on the link it takes puts different images in different places I think.

Post: #40

(12-13-2015 02:29 PM)PhDre Wrote:  Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

I wore a dark blue suit, light blue shirt, brown tie, brown oxfords and white pocket square. All tailored and in high quality fabrics.
I definitely looked a lot better than all the other attendants; it still baffles me how terrible engineers and scientists dress.

That being said, it didn't help me at all. They were only looking for project managers to evaluate and follow up on the projects (infrastructure, energy,...) to which they issued loans. I was told that the bank employs roughly 200 project engineers and only 10 quants - there were even no representatives from any other departments than project loans.

I wonder why they invited me to the event: my cv clearly states that I'm looking for a quant job and all my experience (and education) is in math and numerical modelling. Well, at least I made some contacts that might serve me in the future.

As a sidenote, the bank's representatives clearly stated they gave priority to hiring women to improve their gender ratios.
Another reason to aim for the quant job, I'm fairly certain there's very little competition from women in that area.

My theory on why engineers/scientists dress poorly is partially due to ignorance, but also because the idea that appearance can trump substance is an affront to their worldview. As a group, they believe that substance should stand on its own, even if it looks bad. They might even intentionally avoid dressing it up for this reason. To them, skill in appearance is a charlatan's calling card.

You were probably invited to the event because it's no skin off their back. The time you "waste" is not their time.

If the rep explicitly said they discriminate in favor of women, I'd be very surprised. That's illegal. What they usually say is that the bank makes a concerted effort to recruit women because blah blah blah, which means the same thing. On the other hand, I've heard directors euphemistically say they won't hire women.

You are correct that there is little competition from women in quant space (who am I kidding, there's zero competition).

Post: #41

(12-13-2015 05:25 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  

(12-13-2015 05:07 PM)Stun Wrote:  

(12-04-2015 06:18 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  Braces are an ESSENTIAL part of getting the trousers of a nice suit to hang properly. If you wear a belt with a suit you should take the belt out the belt loops, and repeatedly flog yourself with it until you promise never to do something so ill-judged again. If your trousers are to hang properly, not pool on the top of your shoe, then you need to wear braces. Do not listen to what some idiot on the internet has told you (he said, tongue in cheek), the guy is wrong.

Pocket square is a good thing, but it should be white (as should your shirt), with only the top 1cm or so showing. Nothing fancy, nothing flashy, a simple square fold to provide a tiny bit of relief against the monotone of your suit.

If you want the full guide:

Black shoes, polished to within an inch of their life. Your shoes must shine.

Socks should match the suit as nearly as possible. No bright colours.

Demure suit, nothing gauche, nothing overly tailored with funky lapels or any of that other 'fashionable' crap pushed by subversive idiots who hate the idea of actually looking like a gentleman.

Your shirt should be white. Black shirts are for sex offenders, don't wear them with a suit (or ever).

Braces - essential in my view. Nothing too wide, shaped, or loud. Should either be generic dark colour, or pair passably with your tie.

White pocket square to match the shirt, only a cm or so showing.

Tie - this is the place to introduce some individual flair should you so wish. Again, something classic with a twist is ideal. I have a variety of dark navy blue ties, with small, discrete animals on, or with spots on. At first glance this is a classic tie with some interest, it is only on close examination that it shows a touch of humour and flair. Dark ties with medium sized pink or white spots look fantastic too. If you wear a black tie, or a skinny tie, you should use it to hang yourself before the interview.

Thanks for the detailed write-up, H1N1.

Something like this but navy? It's a small pic, and you can't see his shoes or braces.

Sorry mate, not entirely clear what you're asking. What should be navy? Each time I click on the link it takes puts different images in different places I think.

Sorry about that. Do you have an image link that is somewhat representational of the type of suit you're describing?

Post: #42

(12-13-2015 07:02 PM)Stun Wrote:  

(12-13-2015 05:25 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  

(12-13-2015 05:07 PM)Stun Wrote:  

(12-04-2015 06:18 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  Braces are an ESSENTIAL part of getting the trousers of a nice suit to hang properly. If you wear a belt with a suit you should take the belt out the belt loops, and repeatedly flog yourself with it until you promise never to do something so ill-judged again. If your trousers are to hang properly, not pool on the top of your shoe, then you need to wear braces. Do not listen to what some idiot on the internet has told you (he said, tongue in cheek), the guy is wrong.

Pocket square is a good thing, but it should be white (as should your shirt), with only the top 1cm or so showing. Nothing fancy, nothing flashy, a simple square fold to provide a tiny bit of relief against the monotone of your suit.

If you want the full guide:

Black shoes, polished to within an inch of their life. Your shoes must shine.

Socks should match the suit as nearly as possible. No bright colours.

Demure suit, nothing gauche, nothing overly tailored with funky lapels or any of that other 'fashionable' crap pushed by subversive idiots who hate the idea of actually looking like a gentleman.

Your shirt should be white. Black shirts are for sex offenders, don't wear them with a suit (or ever).

Braces - essential in my view. Nothing too wide, shaped, or loud. Should either be generic dark colour, or pair passably with your tie.

White pocket square to match the shirt, only a cm or so showing.

Tie - this is the place to introduce some individual flair should you so wish. Again, something classic with a twist is ideal. I have a variety of dark navy blue ties, with small, discrete animals on, or with spots on. At first glance this is a classic tie with some interest, it is only on close examination that it shows a touch of humour and flair. Dark ties with medium sized pink or white spots look fantastic too. If you wear a black tie, or a skinny tie, you should use it to hang yourself before the interview.

Thanks for the detailed write-up, H1N1.

Something like this but navy? It's a small pic, and you can't see his shoes or braces.

Sorry mate, not entirely clear what you're asking. What should be navy? Each time I click on the link it takes puts different images in different places I think.

Sorry about that. Do you have an image link that is somewhat representational of the type of suit you're describing?

This is pretty much immaculate: http://www.high-toned.fr/wp-content/gall...r-2013.jpg

Notice the high crutch making the legs look long, defined and elegant, and the single break of the trouser leg above the shoes. This is a well tailored suit worn with braces, you can't see them but there is no question the guy is wearing them. The stripe is obviously quite loud on the suit, slightly louder than I'd opt for, but that is an individual preference. The cut of the jacket is immaculate, showing just the right amount of cuff. Altogether a well put together suit. I don't much care for the pocket square done like that, I think it would look more elegant if it were less ostentatious, but that is at the extreme end of forgivable.

Post: #43

White/Light Blue shirt, dark colored suit, no pocket square, no flash.....

Post: #44

(12-13-2015 07:23 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  This is pretty much immaculate: http://www.high-toned.fr/wp-content/gall...r-2013.jpg

That's a gorgeous suit, thanks for that, man.

Post: #45

Allgoodadvice, but don't over-analize it. If someone judges you based on whether you're wearing belts or braces/suspenders,you don't want to work there. My opinion re. braces: as long as you keep your jacket (or at least, vest) on they're a good choice. But if you end up in your shirtsleeves, you will be wearing a wrinkled shirt. You may not plan on being in shirtsleeves but 1)room may be excessively hot or 2) you may meet with one or more interviewers in shirtsleevesand may want to remove your jacket to fit in.

Post: #46

H1N1 is dropping good advice, but has the vent issue backwards.

If you're straddling a horse, you want your jacket to split with your legs. So single vented.
If you're sitting on a flat chair, you want the front of the jacket to rise with your legs, and the back flap to remain straight with your back. So double vented.
No-one will judge you for having a single vented business suit, it's just less sleek and less comfortable.

DB suits never have single vents because they're considered city clothes these days. Same reason they're never made of tweed.
Overcoats and 19th century suits (e.g. frock coats, morning coats) usually have a single vent, but only because they're so long that double vents would be awkward.
Pretty sure DB coats of any kind were never worn while riding, again, you need a coat that splits in the middle, both back and front.

Post: #47

http://www.indochino.com/product/premium...dseye-suit

This is my go to suit for professional occasions. It's rare that I'll go a day in it without someone asking me about it. $750 may be steep for some, but I think you'd be hard pressed to fit out something superior if you had a budget of 2k. Keep the customizations classic and you've got a no fail suit that fits perfectly.

Post: #48

For those interested, I got on my laptop the official dresscode PDF (in French) for a large Swiss bank plus some of the Vault guides to finance.

Post: #49

(12-20-2015 07:32 PM)dispenser Wrote:  H1N1 is dropping good advice, but has the vent issue backwards.

If you're straddling a horse, you want your jacket to split with your legs. So single vented.
If you're sitting on a flat chair, you want the front of the jacket to rise with your legs, and the back flap to remain straight with your back. So double vented.
No-one will judge you for having a single vented business suit, it's just less sleek and less comfortable.

DB suits never have single vents because they're considered city clothes these days. Same reason they're never made of tweed.
Overcoats and 19th century suits (e.g. frock coats, morning coats) usually have a single vent, but only because they're so long that double vents would be awkward.
Pretty sure DB coats of any kind were never worn while riding, again, you need a coat that splits in the middle, both back and front.

You're absolutely correct. I've just been through my wardrobe and I was indeed talking out of my arse there.