third date: girl brings friends/guy friend

hehehehe, I am going ghost because I do not give a shit anymore after last night.

If she, however, wants to meet up again in normal/dating/sexual/romantic conditions then fine. I am not contacting her.

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I think dude should've bailed on their 3rd meet up when she brought that other beta orbiter with her to the bar, that's some disrespectful shit, she knows that you like her and are seeing it as a date. There's no excuse for that shit, I would've ejected immediately, sounds like she's friend-zoning you or qualifying you as some kind of beta that she can fuck if she wants, but blackburn just as easily. A lot of chicks nowadays are flipping the script and setting up "soft harems" of fuck buddy guys that she will bang, I hear and see this happening to guys I know, usually she'll have one main dude who's the most "alpha" (however that description applies), and then a fleet of more beta orbiters that she may throw scraps to occasionally.

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1) The girl appeared fairly interested in the beginning.
2) Your escalation profile was off. You had long makeouts that could not, and hence did not, end in sex.
3) She lost interest.
4) Next time: refrain from all those makeouts. They diffuse sexual tension. Don't initiate kissing until you're somewhere where it can progress to sex (i.e. invite her up before you kiss, not after).
5) What is a fvck? Is this like bvlgari? Can you please has an English?

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(09-27-2015 02:23 PM)amusedmastery Wrote:  Typical flaky, hot-cold behavior pattern from modern womynzzz. Next time you get invited on a group date, radio silence or flake out yourself and restart later.

At this point, you need to ghost this chick for a while and ping her again when you reset your frame. A few weeks. That way, she thinks you're busy dating other womynzz and doing some cool shiz. She senses beta neediness right now and by radio silence, you establish that you're not. If she agrees to meet again after the ghosting, CANCEL on her! Then reschedule....If she asks what you've been up to and why you "went away", tell her you've just been "busy". Leave it at that to allow proper hamster spin. Then proceed accordingly. It's a shitty process, but you're dealing with illogical female hindbrains.

(09-27-2015 02:37 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  I think dude should've bailed on their 3rd meet up when she brought that other beta orbiter with her to the bar, that's some disrespectful shit, she knows that you like her and are seeing it as a date. There's no excuse for that shit, I would've ejected immediately, sounds like she's friend-zoning you or qualifying you as some kind of beta that she can fuck if she wants, but blackburn just as easily. A lot of chicks nowadays are flipping the script and setting up "soft harems" of fuck buddy guys that she will bang, I hear and see this happening to guys I know, usually she'll have one main dude who's the most "alpha" (however that description applies), and then a fleet of more beta orbiters that she may throw scraps to occasionally.

I WAS JUST GONNA ASK ABOUT THIS!! what a coincidence.
I fully agree with you.

I was gonna ask if after everything that occured (she changing the terms, one step at a time...), I should have left when she invited this other dude, cause really, it was the most annoying/disrespectful thing she did. She knew it was a date but she sabotaged it, God knows why.

Now I think that when this guy came and we were all having a drink, I should have took her aside and told her that this was not what I had in mind and leave her right there. This was the point of no return I think. But it all happened so quickly I did not have time to process it, you know, I was there talking to her girl friends for like 20 minutes, I did not know if her female friends were gonna come with us or not in the end and then she said my guy friend is also coming, and 5 minutes later the guy arrived, and 5 more minutes later her girl friends said they prefered to go home so she, this dude and myself left to go to the club.

I thought about calling her out and leaving her, but sometimes I am too harsh when chicks do stuff I dont like which has been counterproductive in the past, so I wanted to be more "flexible" this time.

In this case I should have left when this guy appeared. This was the right/alpha thing to do, cause really it was too disrespectful. First I thought were were going alone, then her girl friends were coming also, then they were not coming but a random guy appeared and joined us. It was so confusing.

Anyway, right after I asked her out on this third date her interest level was already low; she went from really into me to just friends in five days:
1 took several hours to reply to my text eventhough she read it and was online on fb.
2 agreed to the date but told me to text her on Saturday morning anyway.
3 wanted to add her female friends to the ecuation.
4 brought a guy!
5 I asked her to dance two songs, but she did not even ask me once in two hours.
6 did not even kiss me.

I think she wanted to friendzone me on this third 'date' because of whatever reasons, so she put me in the backburner while she fucks her A guy.

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So I should not have such a long make-out if I dont have a place to fuck her?

With previous chicks we have made out in my car, I have touched their pussy, boobs etc, like for 10 minutes and they have suggested to go to their place or somewhere private.

So what do I do? brief makeout if there is no place available? I dont have a place of my own but this chick rents a flat with other girls so there was a place to bang actually.

I am thinking that I texted her a few days ago to ask her when is she leaving my country because I really did not know. I did not know if she was leaving in a week or in two years.
So I asked her, she told me she wants to stay for a long time and asked me why I asked. I told her that it is not the same if she's staying for a week than for ten years.

Was this a mistake on my part? maybe she got the feeling I wanted a relationship? I dont, I just wanted to know how much time we have left you know.

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(09-27-2015 02:29 PM)heman29 Wrote:  hehehehe, I am going ghost because I do not give a shit anymore after last night.

If she, however, wants to meet up again in normal/dating/sexual/romantic conditions then fine. I am not contacting her.

Dude. Stop with the girly "hehes" and stop saying "going ghost". You're giving off the wrong vibe.

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You witnessed a good newbie rule yourself. You get 10 minutes to escalate from make out to sex, otherwise you have to freeze out and try again in 15 minutes or end the date saying you need to go. Going over this does nothing to help you, and can even make things awkward for her.

As said your logistics were fucked and for group date invitation you should lie and say you have a fun social event to go through with friends (better than whatever she is doing).

You shouldn't text a girl asking when she is leaving, you need to be indirect in conversation and ask her about her home country.

Girls before banging can't handle serious direct life questions in text. It screams thirst to them for whatever reason.

As twisted as it it is, a girl does not want to get to know you until after you bang. She wants to know as little about you as possible and have you know as much about her as possible. She wants to lose. Big time.

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You need to go over this thread with a pen and paper and take notes of the recurring patterns of advice that have been given.

Principles such as controlling frame, having other things going on, escalation, detachment, entitlement, not being occupied over what she's doing and what she wants per se and more focused on your agenda, proper speech and bearing when talking with other men, are cornerstones of game and should be applied as foundational templates, the groundwork of your game, to be deployed in all cases, without thinking, on autopilot. Game 101.

If you begin apply these principles right now, you will not respond to her text about water or whatever else because who cares and focus on being true to the game, which is more important than any one girl or situation, to maximize your efficiency.

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(09-27-2015 03:04 PM)heman29 Wrote:  So I should not have such a long make-out if I dont have a place to fuck her?

With previous chicks we have made out in my car, I have touched their pussy, boobs etc, like for 10 minutes and they have suggested to go to their place or somewhere private.

So what do I do? brief makeout if there is no place available? I dont have a place of my own but this chick rents a flat with other girls so there was a place to bang actually.

Must be a modern American thing, by default the man is supposed to be the suggester. If there is no place available, there really isn't a good reason to go on a date. All dates must have some possibility of it ending in a bang. If she's precluding the bang (she say's she can't stay out etc), you should kiss to confirm interest at the end, but don't go into a makeout, and you should end the kiss. That way, you don't diffuse sexual tension (so the chance of a 2nd date is higher), but if she won't kiss you know if she's wasting your time and doesn't really like you etc, so you know if you should bother with her anymore. (This has saved me a few times from annoying girls who just like to lead men on for the attention).

If she has the place, you should suggest an excuse as to why you should go there. Literally any excuse is fine, other than "we could bang there!".

(09-27-2015 03:04 PM)heman29 Wrote:  I am thinking that I texted her a few days ago to ask her when is she leaving my country because I really did not know. I did not know if she was leaving in a week or in two years.
So I asked her, she told me she wants to stay for a long time and asked me why I asked. I told her that it is not the same if she's staying for a week than for ten years.

Was this a mistake on my part? maybe she got the feeling I wanted a relationship? I dont, I just wanted to know how much time we have left you know.

Should've just said something amusing and dismissive of the topic. You got the information you wanted, no need to tell her why you wanted it.

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So you all say that I should keep the makeout time to no more than around 10-15 minutes if there is no place to have sex?
I've always thought that I should escalate as much as I can everytime.

I was expecting her to get super horny so she would have suggested to go to her room.
You know were were in my car double parking...so how do I do it for next time?
we start to makeout and after a while I suggest to go upstairs to do X at her place, and if she agrees then I start to search for a free spot to park my car? or once I get to her place I park my car, makeout, and then I walk with her and get in the hallway, elevator...?

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(09-27-2015 03:04 PM)heman29 Wrote:  So what do I do? brief makeout if there is no place available? I dont have a place of my own but this chick rents a flat with other girls so there was a place to bang actually.

Get that sorted out. You need a place of your own. Or get used to losing girls who were DTF, over and over.

There was a time to get her to your place in a one on one. Instead you are doing coffee dates and taking her out to clubs.

You cockblocked yourself by lack of logistics and initiative. In the meantime she went off the boil.

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I can vouch for what Tigre is saying.

Logistics are so important that even if your looks/game amount to a 8+, you will still have the functional capacity of maybe a 5-6. Bad logistics are my biggest problem, and if left unchecked for long enough it really seeps into your inner game, like corrosive battery acid.

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but whenever I drive her home...how do I do it? do I park and then we make out an then I suggest to go upstairs because of whatever?

I mean, it may look odd if I park my car "just because", instead of just dropping her, you know? do you understand what I mean? she will probably go: "why are you parking?"

I cannot have a place of my own now. I live with my parents, but I can bring home girls if it is late so they are sleeping. And in anycase they would not say anything if they hear something, they are cool with it.

Anyway in my original date I planned to:
1 go with her to the latin club: dance, grind a bit etc.
2 go to have a few drinks.
3 makeout in my car at my place.
4 suggest to go to my room to listen to music.

As I already explaind, since she changed and screwed everything I could not execute my plan.

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Next time you are outside her place, ask to use her bathroom. Credited to Roosh.

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(09-27-2015 04:21 PM)Travesty Wrote:  Next time you are outside her place, ask to use her bathroom. Credited to Roosh.

I've heard that one but it is just....soooo...lame. Besides, what if I say that, she agrees, and once I am at her place I go for the bang but she rejects me? what a stupid situation!

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you seem to be overthinking / planning too much; no need to be perfect. life has awkward moments.

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Anyway, since I have that pink bottle of water of hers but I have told her I didn't find it...
I was thinking about testing her real interest level. I mean, I could tell her that I found her bottle and if she wants me to go to her place to give it to her and maybe watch a movie.

If she refuses and suggests any other activity NOT at her place, I know for sure there she doesnt want to get sexual with me.

Or do I just go no contact and wait to see if she reaches out?

Thoughts?

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dude, all those lies.
1. telling her that you are fine with meeting with the female friends, despite being mad
2. you get furious and act unaffected, even try to act charming
3. the guy comes along and you still stay
4. you find her bottle, but tell her you did not

have you considered just having some integrity and standing by your feelings and thoughts, even if it does not get you laid? not because honesty is a virtue or anything, fuck that, but because you kinda owe it to your self. do you not feel like a pretense?

you seem to be obsessed with finding the one right way to do it all. is that not immensely stressful? there is not really an official book of rules, just guidelines that work for some people.

i may be projecting my own experiences on you, but if i am right, take a look at the book 'no more mr nice guy'. just to get some basic peace of mind. you seem unnecessarily obsessed over this one girl. i mean, you got laid a few times already, why is this one 'failure' so important to you?

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Isn't it telling that she gives more of a fuck about her stupid water bottle than you?
Either throw it in the trash or jerk off in it and give it back to her. Then move on.

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(09-27-2015 07:17 AM)Lights Wrote:  

(09-27-2015 07:02 AM)TomArrow Wrote:  it is funny how girls always give you a reason for why they have no time.

what is this thing with acting unaffected, by the way? why hide your personality and preferences for a bitch?

When a girl makes an excuse I take that as "OK, I need to step my game up." She doesn't like me yet.

You know she likes you when she makes time, even if she's very busy. That's a good litmus test. You are cutting through the noise and doing your job.

When I make plans and a girl makes an excuse, I just dont reply. Ever.

That's because I have other shit going on.

I just don't have time to have a woman B.S.ing me

If they like you enough, THEY WILL MAKE time for you, period.

IF they aren't doing this, then its a better use of your time to find someone who is.

I think after you bang enough girls you'll grow into this mindset on your own.

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Radio silence. Follow the outline in my previous post to regain frame. Forget that stupid bottle and "go away" for a few weeks. Whilst away, start meeting other women to get your head out of this one's retardation. Then, ping her out of the blue sky with something witty. Maybe by then she'll straighten things out in her head about you and see you as having zero neediness with womynz.

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OP

Lesson#1

If it's pre bang never make out with a chick unless it's somewhere you can escalate to the bang. My sense is your best shot was first date when you were still potential "mysterious Mr Tingles guy". Key word here is potential. Making out without banging, especially for an extended period is emotionally about as stimulating as a boring conversation given that most cute chicks have been making out for about a decade by the time they reach 23 yo.....yawn

Remember a chicks brain is wired to be excited /turned on/ intrigued by the unknown pre-bang. If you bang and lay some serious good pipe then that potential has been converted to "actuality"..."OMG he rocked my world"

If I meet a girl for the first time while out and I can tell she's into me I try to get her to my place with laser focus....but I do not kiss her. If it's not going to happen but I can tell she's into it and open for a make out I get her number and leave. Just before I jettison I lean in like Im going to kiss her and just ever so slightly brush her lips with mine, stop, pull back, look her in the eyes, give her a wink, turn and leave without looking back. Mystery/potential preserved and amplified. I wish I had a $1 for every time a chick later told me this move left her in a puddle of her own pussy juice

Lesson #2

Shit tests are when a girl consciously does something to get a reaction so they can gauge and measure you...to see what value you think you have. But that doesn't mean they aren't measuring you unconsciously the rest of the time. Asking you to "hang" with her and another guy friend, whether consciously or unconsciously on her part was a critical moment in her inventory of you...and you likely lost all your remaining "Mr Man" currency at that juncture.

Never agree to hangout with a chicks friends pre-bang unless it specifically puts you in a position to demonstrate high value via social proof. Random examples: if you're a great salsa dancer, surfer, snowboarder, speak a foreign language then you may want to let her friends see you dance, surf, snowboard, order food in Mandarin, etc, respectively then yes...they will then actually help you by saying "wow he's so cool, talented, smart, etc". A male friend along for a date?..what's the possible upside?...none. He's certainly not going to hold her legs up for you while you bang her.

Like its been said before...file it away and chalk it up to experience. Youre lucky you've come to the right place...RVF can make the learning curve faster and less painful if you pay attention

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ok, just to summarize my mistakes:

1 I should have not made out for son long if we're not gonna have sex, and I must be the one to end the kiss/makout. I forgot about this one in this case.
2 when we were making out in my car on our second date, after 10-15 mins I should have said something to get in her apartment.
3 In our last date, I should have kept my frame, and I should not have agreed to meet up with her friends included, and definetely I should have ejected when she said a guy was also coming and her female friends left, so it was just the three of us.

Anything else?

Anyway it went wrong mainly cause, for some reason, her interest in me dropped a lot in a few days God knows why. Had she kept the same interest level, we would have gone to have a drink and to dance as I suggested, and I would have probably gotten her in my bed by the end of the night which was the original plan, like I've done with previous girls...

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The real problem here is simple:

You are not dominant/manly enough.

get the sorted and the rest will fall into place.

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(09-27-2015 06:29 AM)CodyB Wrote:  Don't let your thirst rule you.

Wisdom right there. I learned this the hard way.

- Hey Thing, how about we grab dinner with my female friends first, and then go to dance?
- No. Fuck you.

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