Post: #26

Quote:What is the female equivalent of a slim guy who doesn't lift.

Have you ever visited a site called OKCupid? That.

Post: #27

(09-17-2015 11:05 PM)fareast Wrote:  

(09-17-2015 10:47 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

(09-17-2015 04:07 PM)MrRoundtree Wrote:  I'm pretty sure french girls are attracted to slim guys with nice clothes that can dance well and not jacked up dudes with muscles, usually this is a sign of being in a lower social class and looking dumb there or just being insecure with your body. But you need to have an athletic shape, have a good physique and lift a bit but not have arms bigger than your head.

You can always tell the dudes who don't lift. So much passive aggressiveness towards guys that do lift.

It reminds me of girls talking shit about other girls who are more attractive than they are and saying what sluts they are to make themselves feel better.

At a certain point weightlifting/bodybuilding becomes counterproductive. It takes 10 times as much effort to have a ripped, huge body as it does to just be in good shape, and the difference in attention/positivity from girls is nowhere near 10 times as great.

It's much smarter to be in above average shape (top 10% of people, as opposed to the top 1%) and spend your time and energy improving other aspects of your life which have a better ROI.

In the West -- particularly in the USA and Australia -- big muscles seem to be really important. In other countries, not so much. I see jacked guys in Thailand and other Asian countries (mostly Aussies) and most of the girls they're with are 5-7s. Not once have I ever seen a jacked guy with a girl that's equal to or better than him in appearance. They always date down.

Even Zyzz, who is revered like a god by most guys on Bodybuilding.com, got lousy pussy. Look at the girls in photos with him. They're all plain.

I think a lot of guys really overestimate the importance of being big. If you don't have good game, what is the point? Being big is a great way to guarantee success with 5s to 7s. After a certain point, it doesn't help. Really stunning girls are surrounded by other attractive people all the time, so to them looks are just another commodity.

Call me a troll or passive aggressive if you want -- just observing reality. The guys with top tier girls (8+) are very rarely the guys that have ripped, bodybuilder type physiques.

I did this experiment in Thailand.

I opened a fake profile on Thaifriendly of a guy who was jacked.
I also opened another profile of a chubby guy who was kinda ugly.
Then there was my profile, I'm 5''10, slim, middle eastern/mediterrenan look.

I was mostly getting messages from 5-6's and the occasional 7

The chubby guy was only getting messages from 4's-5's at most.

The jacked guy was usually getting messages from 6's-7's and the occasional 8.

The chubby guy got 2 messages a day from females at most, the rest were from ladyboys.

I was getting around 10-11 messsages from females, but the quality was low.

The jacked guy was getting around the same amount of interest as me, but the quality was way higher.

I easily scored 7's in Thailand, but I always had to make the first move. If I lifted, the girls would of made the move.....

As a skinny guy you can definitely pull, but you gotta put in more effort than the jacked guy unless you have a model like face...

If you're chubby you're gonna have a hard time getting a decent girl, yes even in Thailand..

So yeah, lifting definitely makes a difference...

Post: #28

As far as looks, a good face goes a long way with women. If you have a good face you can get away with being thin/not working out and still attract plenty of women. Having said that, a good face is definitely not required.

You need one of these 3:

-Good Face + Passable Body
-Good Body + Passable Face
-Good Face + Good Body

The good news is you can always work on your body, so you always have a chance.

Post: #29

(09-18-2015 04:49 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  As far as looks, its more about the face with women. If you have a good face you can get away with being thin/not working out and still attract plenty of women.

I think physique is more important(Shoulder/Waist ratio, Height, Build) when it comes to one night stands.

Face is kinda important but definitely not more important than your physique.

Game is very important, but you gotta get the girls to open the first door, so you need to look decent at least if you want a quality girl. How can you game a girl who won't even reply to your message?

Post: #30

(09-18-2015 04:52 PM)Turkish Republican Wrote:  

(09-18-2015 04:49 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  As far as looks, its more about the face with women. If you have a good face you can get away with being thin/not working out and still attract plenty of women.

I think physique is more important(Shoulder/Waist ratio, Height, Build) when it comes to one night stands.

Face is kinda important but definitely not more important than your physique.

Game is very important, but you gotta get the girls to open the first door, so you need to look decent at least if you want a quality girl. How can you game a girl who won't even reply to your message?

If you have a great face and thin body I submit that you'll do just as well as a jacked guy with just an ok face. With the same woman? Probably not. Different ladies like different things.

Quote:Game is very important, but you gotta get the girls to open the first door, so you need to look decent at least if you want a quality girl. How can you game a girl who won't even reply to your message?

A great face + thin/passable body = "looking decent", thus opening the door.

Post: #31

(09-18-2015 04:58 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

(09-18-2015 04:52 PM)Turkish Republican Wrote:  

(09-18-2015 04:49 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  As far as looks, its more about the face with women. If you have a good face you can get away with being thin/not working out and still attract plenty of women.

I think physique is more important(Shoulder/Waist ratio, Height, Build) when it comes to one night stands.

Face is kinda important but definitely not more important than your physique.

Game is very important, but you gotta get the girls to open the first door, so you need to look decent at least if you want a quality girl. How can you game a girl who won't even reply to your message?

If you have a great face and thin body I submit that you'll do just as well as a jacked guy with just an ok face. With the same woman? Probably not. Different ladies like different things.

I probably have a very ugly face because girls keep telling me I look like Adrien Brody, he's like the ugliest a list star in Hollywood.

Post: #32

It is what it is..different women like different things. The most muscular guys in France are the rugby llayers and even are not as muscular as most bodybuilders of the anglosphere. Parisians and people from the north dont like rugby players that much but i see girls being super attracted to guys who dance rock well and that are in good shape. Bodybuilders are just not revered in France. Anyway if the girls are super petite in their countries they already feel much smaller than most guys so getting extremely muscular wont be super useful. I know in anglosphere countries and scandinavian guys need to be huge to feel bigger than their women..

Post: #33

(09-18-2015 04:42 PM)Turkish Republican Wrote:  

(09-17-2015 11:05 PM)fareast Wrote:  

(09-17-2015 10:47 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

(09-17-2015 04:07 PM)MrRoundtree Wrote:  I'm pretty sure french girls are attracted to slim guys with nice clothes that can dance well and not jacked up dudes with muscles, usually this is a sign of being in a lower social class and looking dumb there or just being insecure with your body. But you need to have an athletic shape, have a good physique and lift a bit but not have arms bigger than your head.

You can always tell the dudes who don't lift. So much passive aggressiveness towards guys that do lift.

It reminds me of girls talking shit about other girls who are more attractive than they are and saying what sluts they are to make themselves feel better.

At a certain point weightlifting/bodybuilding becomes counterproductive. It takes 10 times as much effort to have a ripped, huge body as it does to just be in good shape, and the difference in attention/positivity from girls is nowhere near 10 times as great.

It's much smarter to be in above average shape (top 10% of people, as opposed to the top 1%) and spend your time and energy improving other aspects of your life which have a better ROI.

In the West -- particularly in the USA and Australia -- big muscles seem to be really important. In other countries, not so much. I see jacked guys in Thailand and other Asian countries (mostly Aussies) and most of the girls they're with are 5-7s. Not once have I ever seen a jacked guy with a girl that's equal to or better than him in appearance. They always date down.

Even Zyzz, who is revered like a god by most guys on Bodybuilding.com, got lousy pussy. Look at the girls in photos with him. They're all plain.

I think a lot of guys really overestimate the importance of being big. If you don't have good game, what is the point? Being big is a great way to guarantee success with 5s to 7s. After a certain point, it doesn't help. Really stunning girls are surrounded by other attractive people all the time, so to them looks are just another commodity.

Call me a troll or passive aggressive if you want -- just observing reality. The guys with top tier girls (8+) are very rarely the guys that have ripped, bodybuilder type physiques.

I did this experiment in Thailand.

I opened a fake profile on Thaifriendly of a guy who was jacked.
I also opened another profile of a chubby guy who was kinda ugly.
Then there was my profile, I'm 5''10, slim, middle eastern/mediterrenan look.

I was mostly getting messages from 5-6's and the occasional 7

The chubby guy was only getting messages from 4's-5's at most.

The jacked guy was usually getting messages from 6's-7's and the occasional 8.

The chubby guy got 2 messages a day from females at most, the rest were from ladyboys.

I was getting around 10-11 messsages from females, but the quality was low.

The jacked guy was getting around the same amount of interest as me, but the quality was way higher.

I easily scored 7's in Thailand, but I always had to make the first move. If I lifted, the girls would of made the move.....

As a skinny guy you can definitely pull, but you gotta put in more effort than the jacked guy unless you have a model like face...

If you're chubby you're gonna have a hard time getting a decent girl, yes even in Thailand..

So yeah, lifting definitely makes a difference...

I would say looking Middle Eastern hurt your response rate more than your body. Sad reality of life in Thailand -- people can be pretty racist.

I actually agree with you: having a muscular body does help, but only to a point. It takes you from getting average girls to getting slightly above average girls. But the further you move up in quality, the less it matters. After a certain point, status and access are worth a lot more than a top tier physique.

There's nothing bad about taking care of yourself and being in good shape. But there's also a cult-like attitude about getting big/ripped as if it's vital for attracting decent girls. It isn't. There are much more effective ways to get better pussy.

Like other people have mentioned, different looks also attract a different audience. I see ripped guys getting 7s often but never have I seen a really buff guy with a girl that's physically better than him. They always date down.

Post: #34

No one is talking about a body builder physique in the sense of Jay Cutler or Ronnie Coleman.

Brandon Carter, on the right, has my ideal physique. Big, but not huge. Everything being equal, a guy built like that pulls higher quality ass than a thin guy on a regular basis. Anyone saying otherwise is only lying to themselves.

Post: #35

(09-18-2015 06:25 AM)Suits Wrote:  Here in China, I've had a LOT of local women tell me that they are honestly scared of dating/marrying muscular guys. When I ask why they say, "if we fight."

I think they are serious.

I wouldn't be surprised if they really were serious either.

I like to think that bigger stronger men do not feel the need to ever hit a woman. But that's something I've never looked into.

Post: #36

Having not been ripped but in decent shape for my whole life and now being in the "ripped" category I can tell you it's worth every single rep. My interactions with everyone are 1000% better, this could be confidence on my part for sure, but when I have a 20-something 8 looking at my 45 year old plus abs unapologetically and opening me in the line at the market, uuuh yeah, I'd say it works. I'm not HYOOOOGE but I'm definitely someone who is recognized as a lifter. Yes I'm in the US. People can smell success they seek it, they gravitate to it, someone who is disciplined in a sport is recognized as such.

The first time one of your plates says to you "I miss your powerful arms and want to fall asleep on your gorgeous chest."
Or lies beside you tracing your linea Alba, pecs or abs with her tongue...You'll understand.

Post: #37

(09-19-2015 12:39 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  No one is talking about a body builder physique in the sense of Jay Cutler or Ronnie Coleman.

Brandon Carter, on the right, has my ideal physique. Big, but not huge. Everything being equal, a guy built like that pulls higher quality ass than a thin guy on a regular basis. Anyone saying otherwise is only lying to themselves.

I have a similar body to the guy on the left but wouldn't want to look like the guy on the right. My genetics are capable of it just by upping calories but to me, he looks like a fucking cloud. In the guy on the left was the same height/had the same face, he would look way better to the average female (without a muscle fetish) than Carter.

Post: #38

(09-18-2015 11:58 PM)fareast Wrote:  

(09-18-2015 04:42 PM)Turkish Republican Wrote:  

(09-17-2015 11:05 PM)fareast Wrote:  

(09-17-2015 10:47 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

(09-17-2015 04:07 PM)MrRoundtree Wrote:  I'm pretty sure french girls are attracted to slim guys with nice clothes that can dance well and not jacked up dudes with muscles, usually this is a sign of being in a lower social class and looking dumb there or just being insecure with your body. But you need to have an athletic shape, have a good physique and lift a bit but not have arms bigger than your head.

You can always tell the dudes who don't lift. So much passive aggressiveness towards guys that do lift.

It reminds me of girls talking shit about other girls who are more attractive than they are and saying what sluts they are to make themselves feel better.

At a certain point weightlifting/bodybuilding becomes counterproductive. It takes 10 times as much effort to have a ripped, huge body as it does to just be in good shape, and the difference in attention/positivity from girls is nowhere near 10 times as great.

It's much smarter to be in above average shape (top 10% of people, as opposed to the top 1%) and spend your time and energy improving other aspects of your life which have a better ROI.

In the West -- particularly in the USA and Australia -- big muscles seem to be really important. In other countries, not so much. I see jacked guys in Thailand and other Asian countries (mostly Aussies) and most of the girls they're with are 5-7s. Not once have I ever seen a jacked guy with a girl that's equal to or better than him in appearance. They always date down.

Even Zyzz, who is revered like a god by most guys on Bodybuilding.com, got lousy pussy. Look at the girls in photos with him. They're all plain.

I think a lot of guys really overestimate the importance of being big. If you don't have good game, what is the point? Being big is a great way to guarantee success with 5s to 7s. After a certain point, it doesn't help. Really stunning girls are surrounded by other attractive people all the time, so to them looks are just another commodity.

Call me a troll or passive aggressive if you want -- just observing reality. The guys with top tier girls (8+) are very rarely the guys that have ripped, bodybuilder type physiques.

I did this experiment in Thailand.

I opened a fake profile on Thaifriendly of a guy who was jacked.
I also opened another profile of a chubby guy who was kinda ugly.
Then there was my profile, I'm 5''10, slim, middle eastern/mediterrenan look.

I was mostly getting messages from 5-6's and the occasional 7

The chubby guy was only getting messages from 4's-5's at most.

The jacked guy was usually getting messages from 6's-7's and the occasional 8.

The chubby guy got 2 messages a day from females at most, the rest were from ladyboys.

I was getting around 10-11 messsages from females, but the quality was low.

The jacked guy was getting around the same amount of interest as me, but the quality was way higher.

I easily scored 7's in Thailand, but I always had to make the first move. If I lifted, the girls would of made the move.....

As a skinny guy you can definitely pull, but you gotta put in more effort than the jacked guy unless you have a model like face...

If you're chubby you're gonna have a hard time getting a decent girl, yes even in Thailand..

So yeah, lifting definitely makes a difference...

I would say looking Middle Eastern hurt your response rate more than your body. Sad reality of life in Thailand -- people can be pretty racist.

I actually agree with you: having a muscular body does help, but only to a point. It takes you from getting average girls to getting slightly above average girls. But the further you move up in quality, the less it matters. After a certain point, status and access are worth a lot more than a top tier physique.

There's nothing bad about taking care of yourself and being in good shape. But there's also a cult-like attitude about getting big/ripped as if it's vital for attracting decent girls. It isn't. There are much more effective ways to get better pussy.

Like other people have mentioned, different looks also attract a different audience. I see ripped guys getting 7s often but never have I seen a really buff guy with a girl that's physically better than him. They always date down.

Actually I got mad attention in Thailand because of my looks, most girls thought I was Italian,Spanish etc.

Post: #39

(09-19-2015 12:39 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  No one is talking about a body builder physique in the sense of Jay Cutler or Ronnie Coleman.

Brandon Carter, on the right, has my ideal physique. Big, but not huge. Everything being equal, a guy built like that pulls higher quality ass than a thin guy on a regular basis. Anyone saying otherwise is only lying to themselves.

How many people have body like the guy on the right? Maybe 1 in 500 if not less. Utterly pointless to have a body like that just to get girls. The time needed to maintain it will be huge, you can use that time to make $$$$

My ideal body is this

Post: #40

(09-17-2015 10:51 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

(09-15-2015 05:21 PM)Hoo Wrote:  According to women:




Btw, some studies also asked guys what kind of body they think women want most... And it's always the biggest, most shredded dude.

That isn't according to women, and it definitely isn't a study. 20Nation posted the same thing on his blog. You'd think he'd know by now not to listen to what women say, but to watch what they do. RVF seems to forget that when this topic comes up though.

Your "study" was just an online poll conducted by these two skinny hipsters on the people who visited their fitness blog.

Does anyone really want to take advice from these two guys on women, or from the women who would follow their blog?

Eh, I am guessing they could pull at art gallery showings but would have a tougher time finding women to bang at the beach. Call it a hunch.

Post: #41

(09-19-2015 01:56 AM)Adrenaline Wrote:  

(09-19-2015 12:39 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  No one is talking about a body builder physique in the sense of Jay Cutler or Ronnie Coleman.

Brandon Carter, on the right, has my ideal physique. Big, but not huge. Everything being equal, a guy built like that pulls higher quality ass than a thin guy on a regular basis. Anyone saying otherwise is only lying to themselves.

I have a similar body to the guy on the left but wouldn't want to look like the guy on the right. My genetics are capable of it just by upping calories but to me, he looks like a fucking cloud. In the guy on the left was the same height/had the same face, he would look way better to the average female (without a muscle fetish) than Carter.

Brandon isnt that big, hes tall at 6'2 with low bf, but if im not mistaken hes always between 180-190 lbs...

Post: #42

Lol at that cloud-shaped man "isn't that big". You know people's perceptions are warped when a steroid body gets called 'not that big'.

But yeah RioNomad is right. Skinnyness is disgusting to women in the same way obesity is disgusting to us. Take it from someone who knows firsthand.

Post: #43

(09-19-2015 04:41 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  Lol at that cloud-shaped man "isn't that big". You know people's perceptions are warped when a steroid body gets called 'not that big'.

But yeah RioNomad is right. Skinnyness is disgusting to women in the same way obesity is disgusting to us. Take it from someone who knows firsthand.

If this is true then all the guys in Asia and South east asia are disgusting?

Post: #44

(09-19-2015 04:41 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  Lol at that cloud-shaped man "isn't that big". You know people's perceptions are warped when a steroid body gets called 'not that big'.

You may be right, but i just dont see a massive guy in the vid with roosh..

Post: #45

(09-19-2015 12:39 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  No one is talking about a body builder physique in the sense of Jay Cutler or Ronnie Coleman.

Brandon Carter, on the right, has my ideal physique. Big, but not huge. Everything being equal, a guy built like that pulls higher quality ass than a thin guy on a regular basis. Anyone saying otherwise is only lying to themselves.

If this is true, why do so few of these ultra-muscular guys (that guy is easily in the top 0.1% of people in terms of physical conditioning) have girlfriends or wives that are better looking than they are?

You can find a pic of that guy's girlfriend on Google. She's pretty but not outstanding. Same story with every male fitness model/fitness guru: they get 7s but never seem to land truly impressive girls.

Status trumps physical conditioning, every time.

A top 1% physique gives you great access to 7s. The higher you aim in terms of quality, the less it helps. No one is arguing that taking care of yourself and having a good physique won't improve your access to pussy, since it obviously will. The point is that building an elite physique for the purpose of getting pussy has terrible ROI.

It's a huge time investment without much of a payoff. Much better to stay in good shape, spend 1/5th as much time and effort monitoring your diet and working out, and spend the rest of your time on things that deliver better returns.

Post: #46

(09-19-2015 04:45 AM)Turkish Republican Wrote:  

(09-19-2015 04:41 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  Lol at that cloud-shaped man "isn't that big". You know people's perceptions are warped when a steroid body gets called 'not that big'.

But yeah RioNomad is right. Skinnyness is disgusting to women in the same way obesity is disgusting to us. Take it from someone who knows firsthand.

If this is true then all the guys in Asia and South east asia are disgusting?

Maybe in an alternate world where all those guys are skinny.

There's simply no other explanation. I've been almost everywhere in the East and Southeast, and girls are very clear in their disgust. Girls touching arms and asking "why you so skinny?" with a look of displeasure on their faces, girls noticing on a date and looking away suddenly with a peeved look on their face, girls saying "please eat more" and when I mentioned gymning they would inject "yes you should". Others would just say it more politely off-hand. Even scrawny girls who I thought didn't care, you see them later on on facebook typing swooning comments on ripped guys photos etc. The only reason I ever had success was because I offered enough other attributes they liked, so they could stomache 'the total package on offer'. You know that's the case when they negatively comment on your skinnyness after you already banged them. I'd estimate that had I not been born with skinnyness tendency, I'd have been around 3 to 4 times as successful generally.

Regarding their countrymen, they say it all the time. In Japan they freely say it if you ask. Asian guys actually develop a good triangular physique if they gym, but in Japan most do zero exercise whatsoever. When I walk the streets in Japan, good looking girls are disproportionately with bigger guys versus how many there are.

(09-19-2015 06:06 AM)eL-JJ Wrote:  

(09-19-2015 04:41 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  Lol at that cloud-shaped man "isn't that big". You know people's perceptions are warped when a steroid body gets called 'not that big'.

You may be right, but i just dont see a massive guy in the vid with roosh..

Sure, but I see a big guy.

Post: #47

Muscular guys with low BF% wearing normal clothes do not look huge to most people in the Anglosphere, because the latter are used to massively fat guys taking up all the space. Guys like Brandon Carter wouldn't weigh much either, because they have very little fat.

Facial attractiveness, muscularity and body fat level are linked. As you gain muscles and/or drop body fat, your face will become more attractive. You will never see an attractive male face on a fat body (not just the fat, but also high estrogen, low T making it less attractive).



Asian girls (in the Anglosphere or in Asia) do comment a lot and openly on how disgusting skinny Asian guys are. You hear they even say it about their own boyfriends or husbands. But they are also pretty mercenary so if the guy's loaded and easy to control, they can deal with his weak skinny frame.

Post: #48

(09-19-2015 04:41 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  Lol at that cloud-shaped man "isn't that big". You know people's perceptions are warped when a steroid body gets called 'not that big'.

But yeah RioNomad is right. Skinnyness is disgusting to women in the same way obesity is disgusting to us. Take it from someone who knows firsthand.

He isn't that big. He's big, but nothing compared to competitive bodybuilders.

You saying he has a steroid body just shows how ignorant you are about lifting. You should join a gym.

Post: #49

^ Delusion. Steroids are pretty standard. I'd happily drop 1k on a bet that that man on the right, with that musculature and bodyfat, is on steroids. Chris from Goodlookingloser, Mike from dangerandplay, and Victor from boldanddetermined are all on steroids. This is nothing out of the ordinary, no need to be delusional.

Post: #50

(09-20-2015 01:11 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  

(09-19-2015 04:41 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  Lol at that cloud-shaped man "isn't that big". You know people's perceptions are warped when a steroid body gets called 'not that big'.

But yeah RioNomad is right. Skinnyness is disgusting to women in the same way obesity is disgusting to us. Take it from someone who knows firsthand.

He isn't that big. He's big, but nothing compared to competitive bodybuilders.

You saying he has a steroid body just shows how ignorant you are about lifting. You should join a gym.

I think he's on the Juice Rio. I'd bet my house on it.