Post: #26

People on here who argue that colonialism and white rule was better for Africa are totally missing the point and the plot. It was colonialism (and its neo-colonial form today) which is at the primary route of Africa's problems today.

Post: #27

(08-19-2015 09:00 AM)captndonk Wrote:  I was always told that Mandela is like Ghandi, but one day I found following video on youtube: (there are plenty others as well)





Now, I am confused. Does anyone know more about this stuff?

He's probably singing an old Apartheid era song for old time’s sake.

Mandela was jailed for 27 years and when he was released he set upon reconciliation and not revenge. How many of us would shake hands with our enemies after they had jailed us for 27 years? Mandela is a bigger man than most us could hope to be.

Nobody's perfect. Gandhi had some very negative opinions about black people. Winston Churchill was pretty racist..the world was a different place back then.

In regards to the OP, well let’s see what happens. S Africa does have an actual rape problem, unlike the non-existent rape issue perpetuated by SJWs in western countries.

Post: #28

(08-19-2015 12:23 PM)Lord Tito Wrote:  People on here who argue that colonialism and white rule was better for Africa are totally missing the point and the plot. It was colonialism (and its neo-colonial form today) which is the primary route of Africa's problems.

Not trolling you. Really. But I have a loaded question:

What is your opinion of present Chinese-African relations, and how do you think this compares with current, and past, Western-African relations?

I ask because, to me and many others, it seems blatantly obvious that present African governments are so influenced by China's desires that you could say that the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs runs the continent. Sometime to Africa's advantage, but also often to its disadvantage. Up to material support for genocide, as in Sudan.

Post: #29

(08-19-2015 12:27 PM)WalterBlack Wrote:  ...

He's probably singing an old Apartheid era song for old time’s sake.

Mandela was jailed for 27 years and when he was released he set upon reconciliation and not revenge. How many of us would shake hands with our enemies after they had jailed us for 27 years? Mandela is a bigger man than most us could hope to be.

Nobody's perfect. Gandhi had some very negative opinions about black people. Winston Churchill was pretty racist..the world was a different place back then.

In regards to the OP, well let’s see what happens. S Africa does have an actual rape problem, unlike the non-existent rape issue perpetuated by SJWs in western countries.

Yes, most white people here don't have a big problem with Mandela. He did his job and retired peacefully and with dignity. Much worse people than him. But he should have known better than to sing those songs.

His family however, many members of whom were US raised and educated, as I said above, has nothing in the tank. Dying of Aids. Dying in a street race. Losing it all in a silly gold mining venture Accusations of rape. These are not the headlines of a family going somewhere. There will be no family legacy.

Post: #30

Why are most African post-colonial / post-apartheid countries so terribly run?

I know this is a very expansive question, but I don't want to take the easy route and say "because the blacks are in power"; there has to be a deeper reason.

Post: #31

This thread has tuned into a pile on for a dead man who was greater man then any of us. People use petty nonsense to go after Mandela. Then man got shit done. Go ahead and blame the inept ANC, but Mandela, for the simple goal of creating a legal framework for a inclusive South Africa was successful.

Money has always been the issue. The oligarchs still have control of reosures in SA and continue to pay off inept and curropt black leadership in SA.

I have brought this up before but South Africa has a ecnonomy nearly triple the size of Ukraine but per capita wealth is the same...

Where does all that money go?

350 billion and over half vanishes into thin air...

It isn't building roads, schools, or maintaining rule of law that is for sure. It is all being sent offshore to old oligarchs in the Netherlands and UK who still control SA money and resources.

(08-19-2015 12:34 PM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 12:23 PM)Lord Tito Wrote:  People on here who argue that colonialism and white rule was better for Africa are totally missing the point and the plot. It was colonialism (and its neo-colonial form today) which is the primary route of Africa's problems.

Not trolling you. Really. But I have a loaded question:

What is your opinion of present Chinese-African relations, and how do you think this compares with current, and past, Western-African relations?

I ask because, to me and many others, it seems blatantly obvious that present African governments are so influenced by China's desires that you could say that the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs runs the continent. Sometime to Africa's advantage, but also often to its disadvantage. Up to material support for genocide, as in Sudan.

The China-Africa alliance is pure business. China is getting paid, and Africa is getting infrastructure and technology. There is no moral bullshit tied to it like the Europeans emposed.

Kenya wants a highway built..Chinese firms come there and build it cheap. Kenya gets a modern highway that aids in the expansion of local/regional trade and logistics, which then helps local business in the ability to expand to new ventures helping locals out and being the precursor towards economic growth. It is a crude no bs way of how a free market works. Africa isn't getting the best deal, but every deal and business is never truly 50/50.

China isn't about moral colnalalism. It is building up a new common market that will be a dumping ground for its goods, no different then what the USA did in Europe and East Asia post WW-II. But again, minus the moral garbage. China is not attempting to build schools molded after Chinese cultural values, or attempting to rewrite African nations constitutional laws, its pure business, and I can respect that for what it is.

Africa is getting more hard infrastructure and technologies sources in these past 5 years then which has been created and accessible for the past 20.

Africa once it builds up its infant large scale industries will be the workshop of industry for Chinese firms once its own people become to expensive to pay.

While Europe and the West try and whine over some moral obligations China has to Africa (they have none) they are being shut out of the largest untapped human and natural resource market in Africa. Its all just butthurt sentiments you see typed in the western aimed press.

Post: #32

(08-19-2015 12:34 PM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 12:23 PM)Lord Tito Wrote:  People on here who argue that colonialism and white rule was better for Africa are totally missing the point and the plot. It was colonialism (and its neo-colonial form today) which is the primary route of Africa's problems.

Not trolling you. Really. But I have a loaded question:

What is your opinion of present Chinese-African relations, and how do you think this compares with current, and past, Western-African relations?

I ask because, to me and many others, it seems blatantly obvious that present African governments are so influenced by China's desires that you could say that the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs runs the continent. Sometime to Africa's advantage, but also often to its disadvantage. Up to material support for genocide, as in Sudan.

You are not trolling at all and its a perfectly legitimate question. I am rather troubled by Beijing's support for the Khartoum regime. However the Chinese are in it for purely business transactions. As Kosko rightly pointed out, if the Kenyans want a road built, they will get it.

Post: #33

(08-19-2015 01:02 PM)Killer Joe Wrote:  Why are most African post-colonial / post-apartheid countries so terribly run?

I know this is a very expansive question, but I don't want to take the easy route and say "because the blacks are in power"; there has to be a deeper reason.

One reason is that a lot of the countries are "fake" in a way... When Africa was split up by the colonial powers many arbitrary borders (look at how many straight lines there are in the map) were drawn which threw in disparate peoples in the same country e.g. look at Nigeria, it has a Christian portion and a Muslim portion. Is it logical for these groups to be unified as one country?



The same is true of the Middle East. Iraq is unstable because it has 3 groups (Sunnis, Shias and Kurds) thrown together in one country.

Instead of a unified country trying to look forward and improve itself (e.g. look at the example of South Korea or Taiwan, which are mostly homogenous), you have various ethnic groups vying for power. This is a recipe for civil war and eventual collapse of many state run institutions.

Another reason was the Cold War - various African dictators were backed by western countries or the former Soviet Union at some time and this caused a lot of bad shit to happen too.