Post: #26

I've noticed this too, was in a relationship for a year and a half and when I got out it all seemed a little bit harder. Texting took more effort, same night lays were slightly more difficult to achieve.

It's accelerating I guess, exciting times

Post: #27

1. Yes, generally all markets in the west are a terrible deal for men, and the trend is down, so prepare for it to get worse before it gets better if it ever does get better.

2. Online game skews the already poor market for men even more. Here you have a lot of mentally ill women many of whom are scared to go out of the house, or the more 'normal' ones still have loads of issues. Full of 49ers. You are just another screen she can flick through. Cut out online game, it's shit in the western world unless you really are going through a long dryspell (1+ year). Choose your battleground wisely, and for most men online game has defeated them before they have even begun.

3. Your high quality early in your life was due to your being in social circles. You may have been the orbiter friend, but you at least had regular access to interact socially with these hot girls. You were lucky you managed to turn the relationships intimate, because so many more men remain in the friendship abyss, wasting time/effort for nothing in return but stories about how hot this or that man is. However it is yet more proof that being an orbiter is a legitimate strategy, true it is shunned by many men in the cold approach focsed "PUA" scene, but just being FRIENDS with women at least gives you opportunities to escalate. Many women are not welcoming of another man as they may be otherwise engaged at the moment, but there may be other times where the window is open. You need to seize that opportunity. It's definitely possible to game while being an "orbiter" with a girl. I prefer a middle ground of just being a good but casual friend, not being a pushover, yet sometimes tolerating listening to her crap and pretending you care. Collect these hot female "friends" and you have over time many high quality girls that might have a brief open window, and during the time they don't, female friends have lots of other female friends, once they introduce you it's a very warm "social circle" approach. One girl may never sleep with you no matter what you do. You may have ginger hair and she is stubbornly against gingers in the romantic sense, but she will have no problem telling her girlfriend(s) how cool and sweet you are. Disadvantages of social circle are that it is hard to maintain. Do you want to be 10 girls' emotional tampon? In highschool I used to be genuine friends with some girls. But you can try to make it fun We bonded over R&B music and school gossip. I liked the fact that these girls liked some of the same music I did, so we traded songs on MSN. I think some of them were genuinely wanting me to escalate, but they are also OK if you don't as they like to have you as a friend. Then when a girl is crying in front of me about her boyfriend breaking up with her, what do?

4. The best source high quality girls if cold approach must be done, is during the day. Try this instead of online game because online game is gay and far more rigged against you than any game IRL, and the state of IRL game is bad enough as it is. If you're doing things online then even the best chicks who are serious about online dating, are average at best, and usually with lots of issues (beware and heed the warning signs). You will never access the quality you can get from walking the streets of a busy city centre or a busy supermarket.

Post: #28

I would say that technology presents an opening for those of us game aware types in that most guys do not approach and are relying on online dating and social circle/work/school to meet women.

It's equivalent to working in sales. The Reps I work with that rely on LinkedIn, Affinity Groups, emails, etc. DO NOT COME CLOSE to closing the amount of sales I and my "cold approach" style colleagues utilize. When you approach a woman or a business you've already done 2 things:

1. You've created an appointment right on the spot.

2. You've cut through the "noise" of technology and presented yourself as a blue cow in a herd of brown cows. You're seen as different and assertive.

Now, there are still challenges....Younger women have lost social skills so you need to lead and layer conversations or they'll just go blank and lose attention.

The old saying holds true...When life throws lemons, make lemonade. These girls are still horny and WILL get with someone. Make it you.

Post: #29

(08-11-2015 12:30 PM)Lex S. Wrote:  Some backstory - I didn't get laid until I was 18. I was a super omega kid in high school but then upgraded to beta doormat. I was the BFF orbiter of this amazingly gorgeous girl in college who eventually let me put it in her for a few months. The next year I dated another girl who was way out of my league. Now I had no game at this time. I was a brainwashed college kid who acted as an emotional pincushion for these girls, wanted to cuddle, actively pushed for relationships, etc. Yet both these girls were some of the hottest girls I've ever been with.

Right after college I had my longest relationship (2 years) with a girl who wasn't as hot as the other 2, but who had done some modeling work and cleaned up well. I have to reiterate that I was still a major beta chump, spending all my money on her and letting her wear the pants. When we split up I had my first true taste of red pill rage and I discovered the manosphere. I also studied up on game as a means to either get her back or to try and find a new girl.

But somewhere around 3-4 years ago I noticed the girls I was getting just weren't up to the standard I had. I tried online dating and each girl was worse than the last. In the span of about 6 months I went on about 15 dates - The first girl was out of my league for my level of game, but by the end I was scraping the bottom of the barrel (Read: SIFs and uggos), and even these girls wouldn't kiss me or return calls after the date. I eventually got into a 3 year relationship with a girl I met in person who was the ugliest girl I had dated long-term, but who felt I was out of her league and therefore did her best to please me. It was settling, pure and simple.

We broke up about a year ago and my life is much different. I'm older, making more money, going to the gym and looking better, and my confidence levels are much higher than they've ever been. I find it easier to talk to people and be more bold. Yet I'm having the worst time gaming girls. I do have to say that I've had two of the easiest lays of my life during this time, though. But surprise surprise, they were just okay. The last of these happened this weekend - The girl was in her early 30's and not in the best shape. When she left I just thought to myself "This is seriously the best I can do?"

But it's not just me who notices this. I have some single friends who are finding it harder and harder to build rapport with girls. Most of them are stand-offish, if not straight up abrasive. There's a bar/club I used to go to about 5 years ago where I'd have no trouble dancing with girls and getting number/kiss closes. But I began going back there since being single and the level of bitch shield in the place has skyrocketed. This weekend I got chewed out by a 5 for trying to talk to her and her friend of similarly average looks. I also began online dating again 2 months ago and have had zero dates, when just 3-4 years ago I managed to have a couple a month.

I'm wondering if smartphones have something to do with it. Since the proliferation of these opiates for the masses I've found it tougher to connect to people. A smartphone gives a girl all the validation she needs - Why should she talk to most people when she has social media to keep her entertained? It's also hard to open a girl when she's got her phone up to her face and doing whatever it is she's doing. A lot of times while texting girls they'll just disappear in the middle of a conversation and never come back. I've NEVER had that happen to me until about a few years ago. But why would she concentrate on one conversation when someone she likes more could email, call, text, IM, tweet, Instagram, etc. her on one device?

So yeah, anyone else noticing that their returns are very disproportionate to the level of game they have?

I've also noticed the very same thing in the UK. In fact, 3 months ago I wrote a similar post expressing the same sort of sentiments:

/thread-47427.html

Post: #30

Where have you been though? NO shit.

Post: #31

(08-11-2015 03:16 PM)Saladin Wrote:  I have a friend who has around 80+ lays this year itself in Toronto.

Can you describe this guy? What his game is like, what he looks like? I think I asked in an earlier thread but I got no reply.

Post: #32

(08-11-2015 02:28 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  Its the Paradox of Choice. The more choices people have the less likely they are to be satisfied with what they have/the more likely they become paralyzed and cannot decide, whether that be in choice of sexual partners, entertainment, or at the grocery store looking at the 40 different ketchups. It's been shown in studies that, in general, more choice does not equal more happiness, it causes anxiety.

Not only are we ourself facing the paradox of choice, but we're having to deal with girls' constant distraction from too many options.

Exactly. This is something I noticed too, and a lot of people point this out and act like it's exclusive in dating and sex. It's supply and demand - too much supply results in value going down, unless you become a Purple Cow.

All of this, however, is just an impetus to get better!

Post: #33

This year I've noticed mostly stone faced girls who give terse one, two, or three word answers to everything I say. Zero angry/public blowoffs but a huge percentage of girls I approach whose attitude and body language says "please leave me alone".

It's a change from the past few years. I was getting laid more before this year, and it was from girls who were engaged in the conversation, even if that engagement was "bitchy flirty". Which means a lot of words spoken which were disinterested or mean on the surface, but with lots of subcommunicated tells that they were interested. I don't see that anymore.

Post: #34

(08-11-2015 02:21 PM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  It's not just you, the market in western countries is extremely skewed against you.
I know a couple good looking 'naturals', who once they got out of the social status they had in school / college, they ended up with ugly or average girls. To get a cold approach interested in you is pretty difficult, and that's just the beginning.
Getting girls outside social circle has probably never been harder than it is now.

Bullshit. I have never, ever used social circle to pull girls (except for my frat days).

Yes it is hard as sh*t, especially in the beginning. But being able to walk down to the bar and know you can take a hot chick home is pretty nice tbh.

Post: #35

If you can carry a conversation, it is not harder and possibly easier.

Those girls who don't want to talk to you? They're in a relationship, or just got out of one, or not their type, or gay, or meeting up with other people, or have mind on other important matters. Just like 50 years ago.

Post: #36

(08-11-2015 03:16 PM)Saladin Wrote:  It may be getting harder for the average guy, but it seems to a skewing towards a small percentage of guys getting a disproportionate amount of sex.

I have a friend who has around 80+ lays this year itself in Toronto. What this tells me is that a lot of girls are looking to hook up, but only with "hot" guys.

This leaves the average dude out in the cold, but it seems to be helping a small percentage of dudes who are the top 1 percent.

Its always been thus.

The top tier are getting all the easy action, we have to work very hard for the scraps.

Post: #37

I feel a lot changes even within a year. I actually had a situation recently where I met a girl and number closed her, hung out with her a few days later and found out she had a boyfriend.

Instead of thinking "oh no she has a boyfriend" I actually instead thought "sweet that means shes not on tinder".

That was my first instinctive thought, it made me realise just how bad these days are right now where I consider a taken girl a better prospect than a single girl.

Post: #38

Technology is a double edged sword. I get what your saying about people being less connected but then from the logistics perspective they are also a godsend.

Shit I'm not even that old but smartphones and even cellphones weren't really a household thing 10 years back when I was starting college. A booty call was calling a girls dorm room if you didn't see her at a party where as now all night long you can be texting setting up soemthing for later while your still out.

Also, stuff like Tinder adn craigslist and having email, messaging apps, etc lets you do stuff on the go.

SMartphones are good and bad.

Post: #39

This is Game thread.
In the wrong spot.
Smartphones have skewered everyone.
It's made the game easier.
For the players.

Post: #40

I'm in the wrong spot.
Carry on.

Post: #41

[As a disclaimer I assume we're talking about pick-up].

When I was a teenager [Early 2000s Pre mobile phones as a standard] I was able to hook up with around 5-6 real hotties each year [Which would be awesome as an adult].

Even to this day [I'm 28] I can't achieve those numbers [Maybe by doubling my nights out].

Echoing your thoughts: Since my teenage years - I've gone from a skinny 145lber to 190lb. I've travelled. I can carry a great conversation [As a teen I could barely speak]. I'm confident. Have money in order etc etc BUT… It is so much harder.

My reasoning why is a little different though. IMO any girl from 6+ only wants to go home with a 9+ guy. As a guy: When you work on your physique, education, personality etc and reach that 7-8 level you hit a bit of a no mans land. You will have visible contempt for those over 2-3 points below you - So your perception is that it's extremely difficult [Especially when you ignore the girls below you - And those at your standards make it very difficult for you].

My best friend just so happens to be that 9+ guy. He could literally fart in a girls face and she'll go home with him. That's the unfortunate reality. Close to a decade ago - I think the playing field was a lot more open.

That being said:

A guy in this 7/8 range is probably perfect to hook an 8-9 female for a relationship if you're beta. WHY? Because you're less likely to cheat but still attractive enough to date.

Unfortunately no guy on these forums will want to act like a beta pussy and subsequently will not be exposed to pussy from this angle.

Based on my experience that's my own little theory.

Post: #42

The theory I have is that smartphones and online dating, have made it possible for the 5s and 6s to get regular and constant attention, from high quality men. The only way they could get this before, was at a club or bar " by accident", if said type of man was drunk or wanted something very easy, for that night.
This attention and ego stroking from a high quality male is gold, to many young girls.....worth way more than sex or a relationship with a beta, and more than a simple pump and dump from an alpha, which could damage her over inflated and fragile ego.

Post: #43

Sign of the times.

Getting pussy is the easiest it has ever been, but getting a quality LTR is the hardest it has ever been.

Smartphones/social media and the information age are only one piece of the change. It's the cultural shift of the Western World as a whole that has brought this on.

Relationships, family, stability, and long-term commitment are valued far less where consumerism, careerism, pursuit of academia, hedonism, and general personal pursuits are valued more. Look at the change of the subjective "American Dream" over the past 60 years. Life isn't about white picket fences, marriage, 2.5 kids, church on Sunday etc. anymore. Life is about getting yours before they get theirs, having as many cool and exciting experiences as you can, making money so you can afford that loft condo downtown right near all those hip microbreweries, traveling to all the cool foreign countries, yadda yadda yadda.

Shit, look at what we promote on the forum. It's all the shift in culture. We say we are just "enjoying the decline." If you can't beat 'em, join 'em type of thing - but really we are all part of the party line. Stacking cash and smashing gash.

Look at modern porn. Remember the dreamy and passionate dimly lit sequences with the cheesy music in the background? Now there's no music or candlelight; you get plastic bimbos gagging on dicks in a bright room getting two cocks in their ass at the same time while their mascara runs. Thats what the West is - fast, dirty, extravagant, and fake. No one is impressed by anything unless its over the top.

Post: #44

Smartphones are only one aspect game. Don't over-emphasize or under-emphasize it, just see it as a part of what you do to incorporate it into your game. Possibly if you see having to use a smartphone to do game as ritual process you're not looking at the big picture. If you see yourself as having to use text game to make yourself stand-out, you view yourself as "just another guy on the phone", then you're already looking at it all as a person with from a self-defeatist point of view. It might be a challenge, but challenge doesn't equate to a loss.