Post: #1

   

Quote:The idea of a "nuclear family"—white picket fence, a kid or two, friendly golden retriever—has been under siege for a while now.

No longer do stories of step-parents or half-siblings shock us, and children being raised by parents of the same gender (so-called "pink families") are becoming increasingly common.

Another new, lesser known family structure that has emerged is that of multi-parenting—or raising a child with more than two legal parents. For instance, a lesbian couple and a gay couple bringing up a child together as a single family, but in separate households.

That's more or less the family unit that these two couples in the Netherlands—Jaco and Sjoerd, and Daantje and Dewi—have decided upon. The four have known each other for 10 years, and have been considering the possibility of having a child together for about six. That possibility is going to become a reality this week, when Daantje gives birth.

Both couples are married, but Jaco and Sjoerd's relationship also involves a third person: an Australian named Sean who's been their partner for the last three years.

"Three and a half," Sean shouts from the kitchen when he hears me asking Sjoerd how long they have been together. Sean is such a big part of their relationship that he will play an equal role in raising the gang's future son.

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Sjoerd and Dewi are both married to other people, but will co-parent a son. Photo: Raymond van Mil/VICE

"Jaco and I have been married for eight years now. Unfortunately we can't marry Sean as well, otherwise we'd have done it in a heartbeat," says Sjoerd.

"Five parents with equal rights and responsibilities, divided across two households—those are the terms of the agreement that we all signed and had notarised," says Dewi.

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They had to do this because, legally speaking, the Netherlands isn't quite ready for multi-parenthood just yet. A child can still only have a maximum of two legal parents and, in a marriage, those parents are usually the biological mother and her husband or wife. However, the biological mother is also allowed to appoint someone else as the second legal parent.

The laws surrounding parental rights have improved significantly for gay parents in the Netherlands over the past few years, but the issue of multi-parenthood is still a complicated one. In the case of this particular five-parent family, Jaco has taken on the role of legal parent No 2—replacing Dewi, who initially held the position because of her marriage to Daantje.

"We wanted to make sure that there was one legal parent in both households, because we're splitting the upbringing equally," explains Dewi.

"The advantage of that is that us men can take our son on vacation without customs stopping us for travelling with a child that, legally speaking, isn't ours," agrees Sjoerd.

"If Daantje and I go travelling with our son, we will need an official permission slip from Jaco, because the baby will have his last name," continues Dewi.

"The laws weren't written for people like us, so we're constantly looking for ways to make things work for all five of us. Sometimes, that can make you a little opportunistic," Sjoerd told me.

"I don't have any legal connection to my son, so I'm not entitled to any parental leave when he's born. But I want to be there, so now I have a statement from Daantje and the "father," that says I take care of "their" child, which will grant me the right to foster care-leave; even though I am not a foster parent.

"It's very complex for everyone involved and isn't ideal for any of us. I mean that legally because, in practice, I think our situation is ideal."

When I ask whether it was difficult to come up with a first name that they all liked, Dewi assures me that it wasn't but they'd rather keep the name to themselves. "We'd already settled on a name before we were even pregnant."

The legal aspects of multi-parenthood are complicated enough as it is, but what about the practical side? Who had to sleep with whom?

"Oh no, that wasn't something we wanted to do," Sjoerd tells me when I ask if Daantje had slept with the biological father (who'd prefer to remain anonymous).

Instead they used artificial insemination at home, and Daantje fell pregnant within two months.

The vast family (the baby will have five parents, 11 enthusiastic grandparents, and 21 aunts and uncles) seem to be ready for whatever issues that may arise while they're raising the child together.

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The group say settling on a name they all liked wasn't too difficult. Photo: Raymond van Mil/VICE

"We're ridiculously well-prepared," says Sjoerd. "We've already picked out schools. It's mainly people around us that expect problems, but that whole myth about the more people being involved with something the harder it being to come to a decision, isn't true. With us, there isn't a lot of room to be irrational—if it's just the two of you, you can easily get stuck in an emotional discussion which you both want to win. But when there's five of you, you're forced to reach a reasonable consensus."

Dewi tells us that she was surprised about the criticism they'd been getting from the LGBT community.

"People say things to Daantje and I, like: 'You shouldn't get the men involved,' and to the boys: 'Be careful with those lesbians, they'll take your child away from you.' It is all about ownership, about fears, and ego."

"And about stereotypical views of what men and women are like—that us men will only be there for the good parts, the fun days out with daddy, and that Daantje and Dewi will be overflowing with hormones and turn into overprotective mama bears. I don't think that's how things will go," Sjoerd chimes in.

Another problem that their friends and family seem to worry about is the question of what will happen if Daantje and Jaco (the legal parents) die in a car accident.

"But," argues Sjoerd, "If that were to happen, it would be less of a problem for us than for a traditional family. I wish everyone had a safety net like ours. If I suddenly lose my job, our son can still take violin lessons or whatever. I don't understand why more couples don't have children together.

"You see all these young parents barely surviving the first few years. They don't get any sleep and hardly see their friends. We'll still have enough energy to go out with our friends and talk about other things than babies a few days a week."

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- This story first appeared on VICE Netherlands.

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http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/life/7...y-together

More than anything I feel sorry for the child - I see this whole indulgence ending in tears.

Post: #2

This sort of setup wouldn't be strange any pre-agricultural hunter-gatherer society.

That being said, in a post-agricultural society where a stable existence requires a lot more than just moving your shelter two miles to where a better food source exists.

A two parent nuclear family has worked very well to provide a stable environment in a post-agricultural world where the stakes are much, much higher.

This five parent "family" is the poster child of a movement that isn't the slightest bit interested in a better society. Rather, their only goal is to remove the limits on freaks, while stifling healthy male sexuality.

Notice in these "non-standard" families, there are always more men than women?

Post: #3

Oh whatever. The West can just go fuck off. I'm happy to never put another foot on Western soil again, with the exception perhaps of participating in a revolution that destroys the left.

Post: #4

   

Post: #5

^ Nice, lol. I really think I need to make my pilgrimage to East Europe soon. I'm starting to just blanket-associate white female faces with disgustingness and mental illness.

Post: #6

I really hope the pendulum starts to swing back eventually. The degeneracy is getting out of hand. Is there no limit to how far these freaks are willing to go? Imagine how fucked up this child is going to be from the "values", that they are going to feed him.

Post: #7

(08-06-2015 02:31 AM)Suits Wrote:  Notice in these "non-standard" families, there are always more men than women?

Only the 'families' that attention-whore. The Mormons just get on with it.

Notice how these are posing as if they are straight couples?

The brunette... WT (would turn)

Post: #8

I'm still waiting for the tax benefits to kick in with my 5 wives.

Post: #9

Awesome, the idea of good parenting reduced to "having schools already picked out".

Post: #10

(08-06-2015 02:31 AM)Suits Wrote:  This sort of setup wouldn't be strange any pre-agricultural hunter-gatherer society.

That being said, in a post-agricultural society where a stable existence requires a lot more than just moving your shelter two miles to where a better food source exists.

A two parent nuclear family has worked very well to provide a stable environment in a post-agricultural world where the stakes are much, much higher.

This five parent "family" is the poster child of a movement that isn't the slightest bit interested in a better society. Rather, their only goal is to remove the limits on freaks, while stifling healthy male sexuality.

Notice in these "non-standard" families, there are always more men than women?

Except the the 'pre agricultural' setup missing here is an elder or elders that provide the wisdom. I've written it elsewhere, but when you erase/exclude the wisdom of the aged you get self riteousness and stupid ideas.

Post: #11

This is a yet another puff piece designed to softly promote the idea of legal polygamy, the end goal being the destruction of marriage and children being raised by the state. That will be the outcome when "relationships" such as what is in this article are legitimized. This about it, what happens when a five way marriage with offspring from this one and that one breaks up? Who gets what? Who raises whom? Who is the heir to the house the five way marriage purchased? No one knows so the State will step in. Hence the goal of Marxism is realized - everyone owns everything in common. It takes a village, you know.

Post: #12

(08-06-2015 05:30 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  Awesome, the idea of good parenting reduced to "having schools already picked out".

Because the trend for parenting is moving towards letting the state educate one's child.

This British politician wants to make "sex education" mandatory in State run schools. http://www.carolinelucas.com/latest/pshe...ng-for-mps

PHSE is blatant indoctrination. My daughter attends a school that has PHSE in the curriculum. She said she has learned about pansexuals, panromantics, stages of sex change. Etc. I have agreed with her that she can miss those classes if she wants as she doesn't like them, and sees them for what they are.

It is part of a larger agenda, which I believe seeks to desensitise children to obscure and abnormal sexual practices.

Post: #13

It's just like the old saying goes: If homosexual parents are good for raising a child, then extra sets of homosexual parents are even better for raising a child! It is a saying so old as to fade into the mists of time. Ancient wisdom, really.

Statistically speaking, however, how likely is it that this kid ends up sexually abused by one of these 5 fine parental figures?
Forced to have sex against their will:
31% raised by lesbians
25% raised by gay father

So flip a coin I guess. Though this "family" tosses in one extra dude for good measure. To be honest, I'm still not 100% sure how the family shakes out in this article. The two dudes on the left are a couple, but the other 3 I don't get. The two women are a lesbian couple..... but added in a dude? They don't even all live together, the article states that they are separate households. So on what planet does that make them a "family"? Seems to me none of these people truly give a shit about how their child will turn out. This is attention whoring pure and simple. Hey, look at us and how progressive we are. So wonderful and loving.

Five people to raise one kid, but not one real human being among them.

Post: #14

I have seen the kind of social degradation that the breaking from the heterosexual nuclear family can cause. Single mothers with the "bad guy" partner of the week wreak on the poor kids minds. I can not imagine what this kind of degeneracy could cause on thise kid.

Post: #15

Gonna be funny when these crazy setups end up with cheating allegations and who the father is questions. And some of them going on a murder suicide rampage. Think the human ego is set up for this stuff? Suppress the anger for a while but at some point they might lose it. Also, I bet in these fucked up dynamics there is probably always going to be more men than woman in the clan. Thirst is strong for sloppy seconds and thirds.

Post: #16

OK. I am confused. I think part of the reason is the names, but who is in a relationship with who? From what I gather it is two gay men, a lesbian pregnant wife and her bi-sexual wife who has a boyfriend?

Is that right?

The weird thing is how normal they look compared to American freak shows. I guess the Netherlands has that going for them. If this was America they would be all tatted up with dyed hair and they would be fat and skinny fat, depending on whether we are talking male or female. Hell, if this was America one of them would probably be a tranny.

Post: #17

(08-06-2015 10:23 AM)Troll King Wrote:  OK. I am confused. I think part of the reason is the names, but who is in a relationship with who? From what I gather it is two gay men, a lesbian pregnant wife and her bi-sexual wife who has a boyfriend?

Is that right?

The weird thing is how normal they look compared to American freak shows. I guess the Netherlands has that going for them. If this was America they would be all tatted up with dyed hair and they would be fat and skinny fat, depending on whether we are talking male or female. Hell, if this was America one of them would probably be a tranny.

I understood it as a gay three-way with two dykes. Could be wrong though.

Post: #18

(08-06-2015 02:31 AM)Suits Wrote:  This sort of setup wouldn't be strange any pre-agricultural hunter-gatherer society.

That being said, in a post-agricultural society where a stable existence requires a lot more than just moving your shelter two miles to where a better food source exists.

A two parent nuclear family has worked very well to provide a stable environment in a post-agricultural world where the stakes are much, much higher.

This five parent "family" is the poster child of a movement that isn't the slightest bit interested in a better society. Rather, their only goal is to remove the limits on freaks, while stifling healthy male sexuality.

Notice in these "non-standard" families, there are always more men than women?

Agreed, this is about the parents, not the child. If there's a different structure in traditional society, it's for a reason, like the Tibetans who practiced polyandry to ensure that one woman could marry several brothers, who all contributed to the welfare of the children and to farming.
With these oddballs it's because the males are so cunt-struck they'll voluntarily adopt that model, without economic impulse or the desire to see their bloodline survive, even if nobody's sure who the biological father is.

Notice how you never hear about extended families collaborating in rearing children any more?, uncles, aunts, grandparents

Post: #19

Guys none of the men above are the father - there was an anonymous sperm donor.

Post: #20

These people are going to rip each other apart eventually when it comes to their egos and who should decide what. It's all fun, giggling, and happy times until that kid is born and grows up some. The backstabbing, shit talking, and general disdain for what one "parent" approves and another disapproves will certainly cause this "family" to fall apart. All that will be left is a poor, confused child with an absent father and a dyke, idiot mother. Poor kid. Fingers crossed for a stillbirth.

Post: #21

(08-06-2015 04:18 PM)Aphex Wrote:  These people are going to rip each other apart eventually when it comes to their egos and who should decide what. It's all fun, giggling, and happy times until that kid is born and grows up some. The backstabbing, shit talking, and general disdain for what one "parent" approves and another disapproves will certainly cause this "family" to fall apart. All that will be left is a poor, confused child with an absent father and a dyke, idiot mother. Poor kid. Fingers crossed for a stillbirth.

Well, three absent fathers, one absent mother and one dyke idiot mother.

Post: #22

(08-06-2015 02:39 PM)draguer Wrote:  Guys none of the men above are the father - there was an anonymous sperm donor.

....who is now laughing his ass off.

Post: #23

(08-06-2015 04:22 PM)Socrates Wrote:  

(08-06-2015 04:18 PM)Aphex Wrote:  These people are going to rip each other apart eventually when it comes to their egos and who should decide what. It's all fun, giggling, and happy times until that kid is born and grows up some. The backstabbing, shit talking, and general disdain for what one "parent" approves and another disapproves will certainly cause this "family" to fall apart. All that will be left is a poor, confused child with an absent father and a dyke, idiot mother. Poor kid. Fingers crossed for a stillbirth.

Well, three absent fathers, one absent mother and one dyke idiot mother.

Yeah, I meant it won't know the real dad but knows the real mother. Those other people have no relationship to it, merely contract holders of it's life, so they can legally borrow it and not get fucked with basically.

Post: #24

(08-06-2015 03:49 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  ^ Nice, lol. I really think I need to make my pilgrimage to East Europe soon. I'm starting to just blanket-associate white female faces with disgustingness and mental illness.

It's like fingernails on a chalkboard.

Post: #25

(08-06-2015 02:31 PM)shameus_oreaaly Wrote:  

(08-06-2015 02:31 AM)Suits Wrote:  This sort of setup wouldn't be strange any pre-agricultural hunter-gatherer society.

That being said, in a post-agricultural society where a stable existence requires a lot more than just moving your shelter two miles to where a better food source exists.

A two parent nuclear family has worked very well to provide a stable environment in a post-agricultural world where the stakes are much, much higher.

This five parent "family" is the poster child of a movement that isn't the slightest bit interested in a better society. Rather, their only goal is to remove the limits on freaks, while stifling healthy male sexuality.

Notice in these "non-standard" families, there are always more men than women?

Agreed, this is about the parents, not the child. If there's a different structure in traditional society, it's for a reason, like the Tibetans who practiced polyandry to ensure that one woman could marry several brothers, who all contributed to the welfare of the children and to farming.
With these oddballs it's because the males are so cunt-struck they'll voluntarily adopt that model, without economic impulse or the desire to see their bloodline survive, even if nobody's sure who the biological father is.

Notice how you never hear about extended families collaborating in rearing children any more?, uncles, aunts, grandparents

There's seriously been a lot of variety in family structure and accepted sexual activity through out history, especially pre-agriculture history.

However, three norms are clear.

(1) Where more than one man (often brothers) would share one woman (a smaller share of pussy per man), poverty was the norm. Also, I have yet to uncover a single example of this occurring a truly pre-agricultural society. It seems more common in impoverished areas of Western China/Tibet where farming is the norm, but conditions prevent many men from acquiring enough wealth to support a woman all by himself.

(2) Free sexual sharing. Strictly pre-agricultural societies. The rational appears to be that for the good of the community, as even when more static couples did form, there were periods of the year where having sex with any BUT your regular partner were encouraged. This would result in less sense of jealousy between community members and more incentive to share possessions food.

(3) Following the development of agriculture, the world become a much more competitive place. With people locked down to the land they farmed, they had the option to acquire wealth (since they no longer needed to carry everything they owned on their backs when relocated to new food sources). This made them vulnerable to attacks by lazy marauders who liked to sweep in just after the harvest was gathered and help themselves. The need for security and a justice system led to governments and naturally, taxation.

Women simply couldn't even come close to competing with men in this arena (unlike hunting and gathering, where a woman was in the position to simply gather enough food to survive if she wished). Therefore, they trading pussy for protection and resources and the world has never been the same again.

Women (and probably their fathers) wanted to have some guarantee of long term protection, hence marriage.

Of course, wealthy men now had the option to acquire as many wives as they desired (and thus always have access to young, youthful pussy) while a poor man had to do without if he couldn't afford it, or in societies that would allow it, share one pussy with several other men.

At some point, religion and morality became involved, proffering the option of a more stable society (no sexually frustrated men likely to cause social disturbance) in exchange for a basic compromise -- one woman for one man.

We've seen a move away from a stable sexual market and a stable society since the feminists sexual revolution. Bra burning freed women to no longer participate in this social compromise and resulted in an increasingly unstable society.

This is why we are seeing awkward situations with several men sharing one woman or in this case, three men sharing two women.

There's a lot of sexual poverty in otherwise well off societies.