Post: #51

(02-02-2015 10:33 AM)komatiite Wrote:  http://www.dangerandplay.com/2014/07/21/...n-anxiety/

I find this helps me a bit, been taking it for a year now.

I have had that for over a year now and it has done nothing for me...

Perhaps I should start taking it instead of just buying the bottle and having it sit in my cupboard??

Post: #52

Your body feels like shit, maybe rightfully so. Ask yourself what you have done for "it" to make it release awesome chemicals?
We all know what it needs, but we grow easily lazy.

Keep moving, good luck.

Post: #53

(02-02-2015 11:33 AM)Cr33pin Wrote:  

(02-02-2015 10:33 AM)komatiite Wrote:  http://www.dangerandplay.com/2014/07/21/...n-anxiety/

I find this helps me a bit, been taking it for a year now.

I have had that for over a year now and it has done nothing for me...

Perhaps I should start taking it instead of just buying the bottle and having it sit in my cupboard??

Try it... I think it helps with my anxiety. Not sure if I am less depressed but Definetly just overall more stable. Less moodiness, overreacting to dumb shit etc

Post: #54

There are quite a few members here who have experience with depression (including myself). I think we should make a one or two page step by step RooshV-how-to-get-out-of-depression manual.

When new members come here complain about their depression, hand the manual to them, tell them to follow it religiously and report back in 8 weeks or something.

Post: #55

(02-04-2015 03:36 AM)lowside Wrote:  There are quite a few members here who have experience with depression (including myself). I think we should make a one or two page step by step RooshV-how-to-get-out-of-depression manual.

When new members come here complain about their depression, hand the manual to them, tell them to follow it religiously and report back in 8 weeks or something.

Its hard to have a manual you would follow religiously and "it just works". Perhaps there would be a load of material and a way to guide you through it.

I think types of depression can be very different. There are things which help me- eating clean/paleo does, regular sleep does(though many people think depression gets worse by sleeping too much) taking magnesium(chloride) does, going in sunlight during the bright sunny summer days help significantly(bright light), being social when I can helps, (good) therapy helps, stress management helps. Weights marginally help but I really dislike doing them.

But there are a lot of things which dont seem to do much. Plus, many people think it works well for them, or have experienced gains with it, that they often think I am lazy or "making excuses" when I dont do them, while they really arent all cracked up to be(for me). Like "exercising", or the infamous virtuous cycle cliche common to therapy- "You gain energy by doing more things, and you are able to do more things with more energy".

Perhaps compiling a list of stuff which should work/make a difference is a good idea. Then a group of us would weight the list items depending on how big of an impact it has made. With enough information and effort(something depressed people are short of) we can even do a helpful rough step by step guide. But there really isnt a one size fits all. Hell, despite all my trying, there still feels like theres at least one or two factors causing my depression Im not considering.

Post: #56

Quote:Perhaps compiling a list of stuff which should work/make a difference is a good idea. Then a group of us would weight the list items depending on how big of an impact it has made. With enough information and effort(something depressed people are short of) we can even do a helpful rough step by step guide.

This is quite frankly, exactly what i meant.

Post: #57

I can tell you from my own experience:

The fastest and easiest way to overcome depression is exercising. Go to the gym at least 3 days a week and do half and hour cardio and half an hour lifting. Within 2 weeks you start to see a difference. Of course exercising has a host of other benefits.

Unless your depression is really serious, like you think you'd better not be alive, medicine is not such a good idea. Fisrt of all they take a few months to take any effect. Antidepressants have a lot of side effects. Insomnia is one of them but the worst is that you loose your fucking libido and become an eunuch. Withdrawal effects can be quite serious too. Don't take your doctors words for what the side and withdrawal effects are for a medicine, use websites like webmd instead.

Traveling for at least week is a good idea too. It separates you from your problems and your environment and gives you an oppotunity for re-evaluating your life.

Post: #58

Exercise helps but I've exercised all my life and still had bouts of depression. My number one recommendation is see a psychiatrist and get on medication. You can fool with the type and dosage once you are on it (and depending on the medication you may get some anxiety or other side effects at the beginning). I'd tried different strategies for coping over the years but now that I am medicated I wish I'd done it years earlier. And btw, with the right balance of medication you should be able to avoid any sexual dysfunction, which can be a side effect, especially of the meds that focus on serotonin (e.g. prozac).

Secondary recommendations: cognitive behavioral therapy--Feeling Good, by Dr. David Burns, is a good book on it.

The Mood Cure by Julia Ross attributes most depression to dietary deficiencies, and recommends fixes. I felt her recommendations had some merit but ultimately weren't enough for me. Btw, her recommendations are red-pill friendly, focusing on protein and healthy fats, anti carbs.

Post: #59

Do:
Lift weights/high intensity workouts
Eat well
Spend time in nature
Improve social life
Get Laid

Don't:
See 'professionals' - Its a racket, they just want your money
Take drugs - Shit will mess up your brain chemistry and cause its own problems

Consider:
Traveling solo - This always takes me out of a funk. You meet awesome people and experience great things. Leave your cell phone at home.

Post: #60

I have definitely battled depression over the years. Probably since I was in my late teens I noticed that during the winter, I would get depressive a lot more, and have since concluded that I have some kind of variant of SAD.

Anyway, it is a case of biting the bullet I find and just forcing yourself to do stuff.

- go to the gym, cardio in particular helps me.
- stop eating bad food. (its amazing how you notice a mood difference after a few healthier meals)
- stop taking drugs if you are, cut down on drinking, I'm talking no more then 1-2 drinks anytime you are out.
- Try and stay productive. I find the little things like tidying my room, cleaning the kitchen, reading a book, cleaning the inside of my car for example all help me to feel like I am on top of things and that I am actually trying to achieve something each day and helps keep me motivated.

On that note, I need to clean my kitchen and bedroom!

Post: #61

It's worth pointing out that there are two therapeutic modalities that have been shown in repeated and well-reviewed studies to be as or more effective as drugs in treating depression, but without the often very serious side effects that various antidepressants have.

These are:

1. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and associated/related therapies (NOT "psychoanalysis" or techniques that have nothing to do with the ideas of CBT).

For a great resource on REBT/CBT, I strongly recommend checking out Dusty's great thread here:

/thread-28873.html

You may also want to find a good CBT/REBT therapist in your area if you'd rather work with someone than do it alone.

2. Bright Light Therapy. I have a thread about it here:

/thread-39799.html

If you feel you might be suffering from depression, you should check out these resources. Again, neither one is "bro science" or anything like it; they have been proven to be as as or more effective as pharmaceuticals in repeated and well-designed studies. They work.

Of course, some of the other suggestions made by others in this thread are valuable. In particular, depressive types should stay well away from drugs like alcohol and caffeine (do not underestimate how powerful a drug caffeine is and how easy it is to abuse). Exercise, especially weightlifting, is essential; and good nutrition with plenty of proteins and fats. But if that is not enough, do check out the two therapeutic modalities above, because they are very likely to solve your problem without needing to resort to crude and messy medications that can affect your brain and body in unpredictable and sometimes damaging ways.

Post: #62

I posted this in a similar thread but I think it's worth re-posting here.

Check out the book "The Depression Cure".

The author, also in this video, is a clinical psychologist and his "therapy" involves walking (exercise) every day, sunlight (or a light box), and adequate omega 3.

Post: #63

Every winter I get depressed. Probably because winter sucks in Massachusetts and it gets dark at like 5pm. To cope I lift weights, excercise in other ways (these two are the most important,) see friends and family, listen to and make music, spend time with my dogs, watch movies, in general stay occupied and not allow negative thoughts to flourish in my mind.

Post: #64

How often are you supposed to take NAC and what dosage?

Post: #65

(02-15-2015 11:58 AM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  It's worth pointing out that there are two therapeutic modalities that have been shown in repeated and well-reviewed studies to be as or more effective as drugs in treating depression, but without the often very serious side effects that various antidepressants have.

These are:

1. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and associated/related therapies (NOT "psychoanalysis" or techniques that have nothing to do with the ideas of CBT).

For a great resource on REBT/CBT, I strongly recommend checking out Dusty's great thread here:

/thread-28873.html

You may also want to find a good CBT/REBT therapist in your area if you'd rather work with someone than do it alone.

2. Bright Light Therapy. I have a thread about it here:

/thread-39799.html

If you feel you might be suffering from depression, you should check out these resources. Again, neither one is "bro science" or anything like it; they have been proven to be as as or more effective as pharmaceuticals in repeated and well-designed studies. They work.

Of course, some of the other suggestions made by others in this thread are valuable. In particular, depressive types should stay well away from drugs like alcohol and caffeine (do not underestimate how powerful a drug caffeine is and how easy it is to abuse). Exercise, especially weightlifting, is essential; and good nutrition with plenty of proteins and fats. But if that is not enough, do check out the two therapeutic modalities above, because they are very likely to solve your problem without needing to resort to crude and messy medications that can affect your brain and body in unpredictable and sometimes damaging ways.

Yes, this is great advice. For about the last month i was seeing a therapist who was able to assist me in searching for the specific assistance i'm looking for. This week it begins. Tomorrow i'm off to a psych evaluation and am just beginning work on actually writing out the scope of my problems so we can see exactly what issues to address in order to move forward towards a more acceptable life.

Post: #66

Thanks for this thread and all the advice therein. I found it by forum searching for "therapist" because I am skeptical of going to some random blue pill therapist (never been to therapy) and hoped to find advice. I have been tearing my hair out with frustration lately with multiple issues in all areas of my life and I don't know where to begin to sort it all out. I think winter on top of it just makes it all worse, since I like to be outside and active and cold gray weather just kills it. My sleep almost always sucks, and I have a huge problem (my entire life) keeping a regular sleep schedule. I'm a night person, have trouble falling asleep, never want to go to bed, and (this sounds so sad) the feeling I get when I go back to sleep after waking up in the morning, that warmth and feeling of satisfaction is the best feeling I'll have all day. Of course, going back to sleep is horrible for your sleep patterns and usually results in me feeling worse later when I wake up.

I don't know if I sleep like shit because I have depression, or if I have depression because I sleep like shit. Because of this, pain from past injuries and other health issues, I don't handle stress well at all, and struggle even to maintain a part time job schedule. I work from home 20 hours a week...which would be fine if I made a higher wage but I'm barely scraping by financially and I'm almost 30. It's pathetic, I know, and I used to work 40 hours a week full time but I don't think I can go back to it. In the meantime I'm trying to get my newly started freelance writing business off the ground but my lack of energy and willpower is fucking me over there. It seems like a few days a month I have a huge burst of positivity and energy and accomplish a bunch of shit but most days are mediocre and a few are really bad where I mostly shut down.

Anyway, my actual contribution to this thread aside from my personal vomit is that I've been taking St. John's Wort for about 1.5 years. It definitely makes a difference, but for me it's very subtle. I guess it's not enough for me though to keep having these problems. I have Nature's Bounty brand and take 3 a day. Keep in mind that STJW causes high sensitivity to light in your eyes so make sure you wear sunglasses and protect your eyes when using it. Exercise definitely helps me too but various injuries in the past (back, shoulder) limit what I can do weightlifting and cardio wise.

The idea of going on meds sounds terrifying to me. I really don't want to do it unless necessary. What is the forum's thoughts on finding a psychotherapist? I really have no idea how to filter them for quality or applicability to my issues. Like some other shit these days it seems like even finding help is some insurmountable task.

EDIT: I just found the Lightbox Therapy thread and it might be exactly what I need...wonder if I should spend the money there instead of therapy first.

Post: #67

FB,

You should definitely check out the light therapy thread and start using a full spectrum light box. It will make a dramatic difference in the quality of your sleep, and it will greatly reduce depressive symptoms if you use it correctly and consistently. Those effects tend to kick in rapidly so it should be your first priority.

After you do that, you may well consider going to a therapist if you still feel the need to do so. Make sure it's a CBT trained therapist (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy), not a random psychoterapist.

Finally, St. John's Wort is very tricky and I don't think that it's a good idea to be taking it. You should go off it when you start on the light box.

Post: #68

Thanks for the advice. I wouldn't use the lightbox and St. John's Wort together, but what do you mean by "very tricky"? I know about the increased eye damage potential from sunlight and interactions with pharmaceuticals.

Post: #69

I mean that it's a complex substance with a lot of side effects (some of which you've mentioned), so using it is not a very good idea when there are treatment modalities that are both safer and more effective.

Also (I should add) the herbs vary a great deal and can have different potency batch to batch. So you are likely also not getting a consistent dosage which is another thing that makes it tricky -- consistency is key to any kind of successful administration of a substance.

Post: #70

When I'm feeling down or demotivated I find the following works:

1. Meditation.

I'm surprised it hasn't been recommended more often. I take a bath daily to clean the dirt and sweat from my body. I meditate daily to clean the stress and negative energy from my mind.

I experience a mild natural high every time I do it.

This shit works. There have been scientific studies about it. Google it.

2. Working out.

As recommended by many posters. Releases endorphins or some shit giving you an natural high. I have experienced even greater highs doing combat sports.

3. No sugar, no carbs.

I find that sugar, refined carbs - even carbs in general - really fuck up my focus. I get that blood glucose rush followed by a crash bringing on lethargy and apathy. No sugar, no carbs keeps me focused and productive.
__

I really wouldn't take prescribed drugs. That shit can be addictive and really fuck you up. Look at Michael Jackson and Whitney Houston.

Post: #71

(02-15-2015 12:49 PM)godfather dust Wrote:  Every winter I get depressed. Probably because winter sucks in Massachusetts and it gets dark at like 5pm.

This is common but don't forget that spring, not winter, can be the toughest time for a lot of people. It's harder to see the sun shine stronger, the plants bloom and everyone enjoying themselves more...except still feel as down as before. For me that was always the worst. The weather in one's head doesn't always correspond to the weather outside (in fact it usually doesn't), so if it's spring and anyone is still working through this stuff, don't let it sap your hope or your drive.

Post: #72

(02-27-2015 04:24 AM)Saga Wrote:  

(02-15-2015 12:49 PM)godfather dust Wrote:  Every winter I get depressed. Probably because winter sucks in Massachusetts and it gets dark at like 5pm.

This is common but don't forget that spring, not winter, can be the toughest time for a lot of people. It's harder to see the sun shine stronger, the plants bloom and everyone enjoying themselves more...except still feel as down as before. For me that was always the worst. The weather in one's head doesn't always correspond to the weather outside (in fact it usually doesn't), so if it's spring and anyone is still working through this stuff, don't let it sap your hope or your drive.

There is a clinical description for seasonal depression, not sure if it was mentioned before.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-condi...n-20021047

Post: #73

(02-27-2015 04:12 AM)Robert JS Wrote:  2. Working out.

As recommended by many posters. Releases endorphins or some shit giving you an natural high. I have experienced even greater highs doing combat sports.

Exercise for sure, but I would add fresh air. Get outside and do something even if it is cold and miserable. Fresh air and exercise do wonders for depression.

Post: #74

I totally get the link between exercising and feeling better, although I've been struggling for a long time to truly implement a workable system that lets me work 9-10 hours a day at the office, and exercise around that AND sleep properly. Part of my problem, I find working out, in particular cardio, keeps me up and buzzed, so exercising in the evenings means I don't sleep until later then usual, and then the next day, I get this quite bad crash. I feel depressed.

I think consistently, exercising first thing in the morning would make more sense therefore. I just can't face the prospect of getting up at the crack of dawn and going to the gym. It just feels like a massive hurdle of f**k no in my head to get over. The times I have tried exercising in the morning, I didn't get a full nights rest the night before, and so kind of crash again later in the day. Its like I percieive that there is this 'island' of balance that I could hypothetically get too, where I am getting proper sleep on a nightly basis, exercising everyday in the mornings, feeling buzzed and good in the day, and sleeping deeply at night.

But for the life of me, as much as it makes sense, I just can't do it. Hell, I need to try and breakthrough for like a week. Force myself to get up everyday at 6am, go the gym, even just for a light workout, and force myself to go to bed at 9.30pm. Maybe after a week of doing it suddenly my body clock and energy levels would be begin to adjust, but I don't seem to have the willpower or belief that it will pay off.

Anyway, one day..!

Post: #75

I've had periods of depression from time to time in my life, some longer and more severe than others, and am going through one now.

It can be incredibly frustrating, because you tell yourself that you are not actually depressed, but rather its just bad things in your life are happening to you. You hope that if you can turn those bad things around it will go away, but time has gone on and I have not been able to, and the depression gets more severe. I know that somehow I need to snap out of it, and sometimes I can for a period of time, but without the bad issues being resolved once they come up I sink back in again.

You want to talk to someone about it, but deep down you feel that there isn't really much someone can say that will change anything. And just by talking about it, it seems to continue the downward cycle, in addition to seemingly pushing people away from you. So I bottle it and act like nothing is wrong and try to deal with it by myself.

Isolation is the worst thing about it, as it seems you have voices in the back of your head telling you negative things about yourself. .. you are broken, you aren't good enough, you can't connect with anyone, etc etc etc. You put on your happy face and try to prove the voices wrong, but nothing is ever good enough. But when you do try to tell someone about it, they either seem to want less to do with you or say that their sorry, and thats about it.

The scary part is the only times I have ever truly been at peace are times in my life where I have just let life coast, with little ambition to move forward. Living in the moment has been the only cure I have found, which is frankly terrible from a life planning perspective. Not to mention that usually leads towards alcohol and drugs.

Deep down it seems like you just want to blurt everything out to someone close, and hope somehow just talking to them about everything will somehow fix it, but having done that it definately doesnt.

It looks like alot of ideas where posted in this thread, I'll look into some and it would be great if anyone has anything not already stated. I will say regarding sugar and excercise, that while having sugar and carbs and not excercising definately makes it worse, avoiding sugar and excercising regularly definately hasn't made it better.