Post: #1

I've seen some good articles on ROK talking about this, but I'd like to hear more from the masters themselves about this. What do you guys know about this?

For instance, in the field I just got into (aviation) can't say what exactly I do, but its very competitive, people have tried to sully my name and throw me under the bus etc, and I notice that all of the hate comes from beta-schlubs who are married, bull dyke girls who don't like my cavalier lifestyle and playboy demeanor.

I can only hide so much red pill in real life without reverting to beta myself.

Why do they hate on this lifestyle and try to ruin others who have more freedoms than they do? Is it just jealousy? Or pity? Or envy?

They spread this story about how I banged a rental car lady around like it was big news, to me it was just one lay, nothing big, something I never admitted to but just mentioned in passing.

Bah, just wondering. How many of you have seen this in your fields? The beta betrayers are the source of all malcontent in the present.

Is there a deeper reason behind it? I've tried to philosophize with several but its like the circuit is closed and there are no sparks left in the socket. Is it even worth trying to save a beta who would betray you or is that just ignoring the 48 laws of power and making yourself a beta?

Post: #2

People are put into question when they see someone else who's life is very different from their own. It's even more pronounced if they interact with that person often.

For example: The married guys are slaving away every day to support their bitter, bitchy wife and ungrateful, entitled kids. He sees you, having fun, living a care-free life and seemingly much happier. It brings him into question about his own existence, his own choices, you see.

To get rid of the question they will say, "Hey why don't you man up already and get on the Highway to Hell", or "Geeez, aren't you worried about STD's?" or some other reason to negate your lifestyle and bring comfort to their own. And if you follow their advice, even better from them because the question then disappears. You have now been assimilated.

However, older guys who are well into their 40s and 50s tend not to do that so much. They have lived the modern day married life and understand full well where you are coming from and quite often applaud you.

Post: #3

It's all rooted in envy.

Keep your exploits and lifestyle private. If you remember from the same "48 laws of power":

So much depends on reputation.

You aren't keeping this hence the hating. People don't like successful people whether its professional, social, or otherwise. Keep your accomplishments under a bushel unless they directly relate to the group/career.

For the record, i've done this a ton of times too sullying my reputation.

Post: #4

Learn a lesson from this. Workplaces are full of neurotic, envious, bitter people who are insecure and are looking for opportunities to undermine you.

Don't give them ammunition. Don't talk about your true personal life or your opinions. But don't seem secretive either, this raises suspicions.Don't volunteer information except to use cover stories to make your life seem as bland as possible. Just tell people you watched sports on TV all weekend or went fishing or whatever. Keep conversations about work as much as you can. Don't discuss controversial topics

No one needs to know what you do, where you go, who you know, who you bang or what you think when you're not at work. The work climate today is full of landmines and is a hostile environment for men and masculinity, at least in a corporate setting. You are behind enemy lines, so act accordingly. It's about making money, not expressing yourself.

Post: #5

Never talk about your exploits and private life in general to your colleagues. It's ok if you appear boring. Tell them as little as possible.

Post: #6

^ Yes, keep it to yourself, but don't let others impinge on your lifestyle.

Post: #7

I think I have somewhere around 1000 friends from my days in the military, training at the gym, traveling the world, on from this forum.

Saying that, I only have about 20 friends that I know that would never do anything betrayal wise when a perfect piece of ass comes along. You can be friends with everyone but choose your close friends carefully. What you see in the aviation field is relevant everywhere, even in the manosphere. There's no escaping it.

Post: #8

Another way to look at it is to use the word friend carefully.

Everyone else is really just a degree of acquaintance.

FB and social media has really destroyed the value of the word friend over the years.

Post: #9

(07-15-2015 04:29 PM)Stack Thornehawk Wrote:  Is there a deeper reason behind it? I've tried to philosophize with several but its like the circuit is closed and there are no sparks left in the socket. Is it even worth trying to save a beta who would betray you or is that just ignoring the 48 laws of power and making yourself a beta?

Yes there is a deeper reason but it is simple. Jealousy. They aren't getting what they want out of life but you appear to be so they are jealous and attack you.

It might be worth saving a beta if he has potential but not if you think he would betray you.

Post: #10

The same problem exists in everyday life as well as work. The more you improve your worth as a man the better your life will be. The better your life the more people will consider their own shortcomings and poor decisions.

People will look at you and associate all kinds of negative feelings. Then they must rationalize away all the reasons your life is better. This is a ego defense system and is common.

Try not to take it personally and read books like 48 laws of power and Influence to understand how to deal with these problems.

Post: #11

Betrayal isn't alpha or beta, and feeling betrayed isn't alpha or beta either.

Post: #12

First rule of Game Club is....
That's right and you broke it.
Whoever asks, you are single and rarely date because you have very high standards and are presently "working on yourself". Female co-workers will want to bang you, set you up with their friends, etc. Male co-workers will see you as a hopeless chump like them and will allow their wives and GF to set you up with dates too. Bang all the hot skinny ones, and when they ask why no LTR say "you didnt feel good enough for their _____" (insert sister, friend, etc) Total passive pussy stream. Nobody likes a braggart. Allow your male co-workers to call you a ladies man and your female co-workers to consider you a good available catch, but always deny and play down such compliments. "Oh, I just wish I had what you guys have!" You will get along much better. Your sexual exploits should never enter the workplace unless you work in one of the last bastions of the male workplace.

Post: #13

Never talk about your private life at work. If you have a drug fueled orgy with a bunch of models on the weekend, when asked "how did your weekend go?" on Monday say" just caught with Orange is the New Black on Netflix". People knowing anything about you causes resentment and will be used against you if possible, that is just how it is.

Post: #14

(07-15-2015 05:28 PM)Onto Wrote:  People are put into question when they see someone else who's life is very different from their own. It's even more pronounced if they interact with that person often.

For example: The married guys are slaving away every day to support their bitter, bitchy wife and ungrateful, entitled kids. He sees you, having fun, living a care-free life and seemingly much happier. It brings him into question about his own existence, his own choices, you see.

To get rid of the question they will say, "Hey why don't you man up already and get on the Highway to Hell", or "Geeez, aren't you worried about STD's?" or some other reason to negate your lifestyle and bring comfort to their own. And if you follow their advice, even better from them because the question then disappears. You have now been assimilated.

However, older guys who are well into their 40s and 50s tend not to do that so much. They have lived the modern day married life and understand full well where you are coming from and quite often applaud you.

(07-15-2015 05:36 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  It's all rooted in envy.

Keep your exploits and lifestyle private. If you remember from the same "48 laws of power":

So much depends on reputation.

You aren't keeping this hence the hating. People don't like successful people whether its professional, social, or otherwise. Keep your accomplishments under a bushel unless they directly relate to the group/career.

For the record, i've done this a ton of times too sullying my reputation.

(07-15-2015 07:59 PM)MrXY Wrote:  Learn a lesson from this. Workplaces are full of neurotic, envious, bitter people who are insecure and are looking for opportunities to undermine you.

Don't give them ammunition. Don't talk about your true personal life or your opinions. But don't seem secretive either, this raises suspicions.Don't volunteer information except to use cover stories to make your life seem as bland as possible. Just tell people you watched sports on TV all weekend or went fishing or whatever. Keep conversations about work as much as you can. Don't discuss controversial topics

No one needs to know what you do, where you go, who you know, who you bang or what you think when you're not at work. The work climate today is full of landmines and is a hostile environment for men and masculinity, at least in a corporate setting. You are behind enemy lines, so act accordingly. It's about making money, not expressing yourself.

Great,great advice for a 24 year old. I feel honored.

Post: #15

So I thought as much, I have to appear to have the personality of a cardboard box, just another lifeless zombie addicted to netflix and facebook and beer and pizza, in order to avoid suspicion from losers. Keep everything under wraps (literally) , but what then when advancing to the next stage? We will never get anywhere in life if our dominance doesn't display at some point,

and to be straight I don't think I can get in trouble for saying it but yes I am in military aviation and it is mostly males here, however the PC SJW tactics are slowly creeping into this final frontier of male only clubs, but there are still a few out there. I've met some good men here, but where there is a bountiful feast above, there flourishes a sewer of rats below, and betas are littered amuck in this career field. Many of them are not the betrayal kind, some are simpering, some are inquisitive to the nature of a playboy's lifestyle and habits. But there are those who will step over you and even use your name to cover their ass if something happens, try to pin everything on you or make you look bad.

In the experience I had before I even got to flight training there were two who were trying to get me kicked out, these fuckers to try to fuck with a man's well being and dignity, let alone his career. I can tell from the responses that many red piller's and alphas have endured this too.

Does anyone else have any other different solutions to dealing with these types of people? Has anyone here ever saved a beta from his horrible fate of being an orbiter and denying help to his fellow man?

Post: #16

There are several issues here OP. The world is complex. We in the manosphere may oversimplify it into an alpha vs beta conflict. It is clear that you are as well.

In reality, both the concepts and realities of the world (what we know as "game") are far more relevant. I have met "alphas" that "don't give a fuck" and piss people off left and right. They are so abrasive and cavalier about their ways that it comes off as showing off or flaunting. The fact that others are betas has nothing to do with how degenerative this is in a professional work environment. The other category of alphas are better readers of people and their body language. It allows him to keep the betas in check and not piss them off. He may be cavalier in his personal life but does not show off or "kiss and tell." He knows the consequences of his actions well.

In your particular situation, you are mixing work with personal life, consciously or not. Remember that there are genuine people and not so genuine. You add an alpha vs beta filter on top of that and you overcomplicate things at work. The truth is that the beta and alpha personalities are not that clear in reality to make fair assessments. There are some betas who busted their ass to make it to a Director role and alphas that are lazy as fuck and work in the warehouse. In this case you don't want to get on the beta's bad side especially if he is above in your chain of command.

Also, I don't know what these guys have done to betray anyone. They're jealous at best. If you can be cavalier, keep it away from work and still be genuine to others at work, I think you'll be fine. Read them for who they are as people and what their values really are. If you give them that chance, you would be surprised as to who really is alpha.

Overall, it's all about game. We don't dismiss gaming hot girls because they're bitchy or jaded by western culture right? So why would we dismiss gaming betas at potentially relevant political positions at work because of the fact that they're beta?

Think it through.

Post: #17

(07-15-2015 05:28 PM)Onto Wrote:  However, older guys who are well into their 40s and 50s tend not to do that so much. They have lived the modern day married life and understand full well where you are coming from and quite often applaud you.

Alternatively, a lot of the ones that I've seen grabbed a feminine woman young(back when it was easier to find them) and got her domesticated and pregnant quickly. The RoK poster GhostofJefferson is a good example.

The idea of being married to most of these harpies is repulsive. In my case I got a good one (just barely old enough to drink) and put her under my spell. I feel bad both for any man who has never experienced what it's like to have a girl on your team who , for lack of a better phrase, worships the ground you walk on.

I feel even worse for men who have subordinated themselves to a woman who will never respect them or look up to them.

Post: #18

(07-17-2015 08:23 AM)Natural Born Gyalist Wrote:  First rule of Game Club is....
That's right and you broke it.
Whoever asks, you are single and rarely date because you have very high standards and are presently "working on yourself". Female co-workers will want to bang you, set you up with their friends, etc. Male co-workers will see you as a hopeless chump like them and will allow their wives and GF to set you up with dates too. Bang all the hot skinny ones, and when they ask why no LTR say "you didnt feel good enough for their _____" (insert sister, friend, etc) Total passive pussy stream. Nobody likes a braggart. Allow your male co-workers to call you a ladies man and your female co-workers to consider you a good available catch, but always deny and play down such compliments. "Oh, I just wish I had what you guys have!" You will get along much better. Your sexual exploits should never enter the workplace unless you work in one of the last bastions of the male workplace.

Also I've found this to be generally good advice. If you're just "open to whatever comes along" but currently "focusing on my career" or "focusing on improving myself" or some such vague bullshit it goes over pretty well to both men and women.


Of course, Wall Street, roofing, oil field work, truck driving, and until recently the military were exceptions.

Post: #19

This is the most reasoned and reasonable reply.

That "alpha" male shit only works on the Serengeti or in the comment sections of a manosphere blog.

In the real world, everyone is out for his own self interest. Your work "friends" will undercut you when you aren't looking. And if they don't, they will remain as peons.

If OP is seeing this kind of "deplorable" behavior from people that he finds beneath him, wait until he starts dealing with upper management, the executives, owners, and founders.

Avarice, Greed, and amorality....

or maybe i'm just a cynic.

WIA

(07-18-2015 09:55 AM)Cobra Wrote:  There are several issues here OP. The world is complex. We in the manosphere may oversimplify it into an alpha vs beta conflict. It is clear that you are as well.

In reality, both the concepts and realities of the world (what we know as "game") are far more relevant. I have met "alphas" that "don't give a fuck" and piss people off left and right. They are so abrasive and cavalier about their ways that it comes off as showing off or flaunting. The fact that others are betas has nothing to do with how degenerative this is in a professional work environment. The other category of alphas are better readers of people and their body language. It allows him to keep the betas in check and not piss them off. He may be cavalier in his personal life but does not show off or "kiss and tell." He knows the consequences of his actions well.

In your particular situation, you are mixing work with personal life, consciously or not. Remember that there are genuine people and not so genuine. You add an alpha vs beta filter on top of that and you overcomplicate things at work. The truth is that the beta and alpha personalities are not that clear in reality to make fair assessments. There are some betas who busted their ass to make it to a Director role and alphas that are lazy as fuck and work in the warehouse. In this case you don't want to get on the beta's bad side especially if he is above in your chain of command.

Also, I don't know what these guys have done to betray anyone. They're jealous at best. If you can be cavalier, keep it away from work and still be genuine to others at work, I think you'll be fine. Read them for who they are as people and what their values really are. If you give them that chance, you would be surprised as to who really is alpha.

Overall, it's all about game. We don't dismiss gaming hot girls because they're bitchy or jaded by western culture right? So why would we dismiss gaming betas at potentially relevant political positions at work because of the fact that they're beta?

Think it through.

Post: #20

Yes WIA, you're right. It's actually amusing to me how many people, especially forum members, subscribe to the manosphere archetype of "alpha" which in reality is non existent. It's a purple squirrel. Some of the thought processes of our younger members at RVF point to sumilarities very akin to a cult mentality or religion. They're using a very basic alpha vs beta template as their primary basis for understanding the world rather than understanding each person's (including women) individual values and motivations to form a better relationship with them. It's clear these guys are likely millenials but not that different from cult followers that are blind to everything else but one set of beliefs.

I just wish we had more solid experienced masculine male figures both inside and outside the forum to counteract this.

Edit: I wanted to add another thing about "married guys slaving away." I keep hearing various forum members highlight how frustrated and "beta" these guys are. I would strongly disagree. These are men busting their ass to provide for their wife and kids (a value I share in and practice). They perform more of an alpha male function to me than someone scoring a bunch of women and adding no other value to the world. These are guys you can learn a thing or two from even if it is not learning how to game women.