Post: #1

I haven't forgot about our previous discussion, but I'm feeling pretty good right now, like I just hit a heat check from thirty feet with my opposite hand, and now I'm calling a 20-second timeout to talk about something that I've read between the lines on a number of discussions that we've had here lately.

I hate that I have to say this again, but the women you have in your life is serious business. You have to treat this game just like you treat your business. In business, your main goal is to make money, yes there are other motives at play, providing a good product/service, contributing something positive to the community/society at-large, but at the end of the day, you want to be in the black.

In terms of the game, being in the black means having relationships with the women who you want to have them with and getting what you want out of those relationships.

Some guys are deep into the red in their current relationships because they pity their women.

Pity and the game don't mix.

She's A Good Person
We talk a lot about the most negative aspects of women that we've experienced, but honestly, not every girl is going to fuck another guy behind your back, accuse you of a false rape, steal from you, or do any of the other foul shit that we know women are capable of doing.

We've dealt with some women who are decent human beings, they have their flaws, but that's inherent to being a human being; however, you can't stay in a bad relationship with a woman just because she's a good person.

Your relationship with her is not about her being a good person, it's about her being the right person. Some of you are dealing with women who albeit may be decent people, but they're not what you want, they don't add value to your life, for whatever reasons. Furthermore, you have to remember that you've given them the time to demonstrate that they were the right one for you and to bring value to your life, yet they've failed to do that, again, for whatever reasons.

Time is the most valuable commodity we have.

Some of you are spending months, years of your lives worried about being "good boyfriends" -- future session coming up on "good boyfriends" -- for women who aren't for you, who don't deserve you.

Think about it, you were faithful to a chick you were with for two years, who you probably should have dropped after three months, so you threw away 21 months on the wrong chick. In a sport, that's taking an L, in business, in this case personal business, that's being deep in the red.

We've Been Together For A Long Time
I love when guys hide behind how long they've been with a chick, as if that's reason to continue to stay in something that's killing your soul. The best time to get the fuck out is as soon as you realize you've been together for a long time, yet you're still thinking about getting the fuck out.

Women are resilient human beings, thinking that leaving her is going to rock her world, and she's going to find the nearest razor blades over you is an exercise in hubris. She might be hurt in the short-term, she's human, but chances are, she'll forget about you as soon as she's with the next dude who is giving her new butterflies, new dick, new ebbs and flows, and new experiences; that's all it really takes.

People take comfort in the devil they know, but that's not an excuse to forestall going back into the world, bettering yourself, and finding something better. Reality check, your woman is a reflection of you. Don't tell me how great of a guy you are, yet your chick is a piece of shit. You might actually be a great guy, but you don't really know it, you don't really believe it, because you're dealing with someone who is below your level; you're just taking what you can get instead of going after what you desire.

Moving On
Sometimes we're not in situations that we can just hit an instant eject button, or maybe we don't necessarily want to hit the eject button hastily, we want to plot and strategize our next move(s) -- women do it all the time, beta orbiters are parachutes for when we drop them off while in mid-air.

If that's your situation, you have to start disconnecting prior to, again, you have to do this, because this is what's best for you. You can't prevent yourself from doing what you need to do, what you know is best for you, because you don't want to hurt her feelings.

It's your life.

It's not her life.

It's not "our" life.

How can it be when you're on your way out?

When the time comes, whatever you considered to be ours has to be eschewed for you getting yours. Some may say that is a selfish way to look at the game, that is a cold outlook to have on relationships, no, it's not, this is the real talk, and real talk isn't talk that you want to hear, but from a real homie, it's the shit you need to hear, because at the end of the day, it's for the betterment of you, and in you, there is no me, and there's definitely no her.

Post: #2

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Post: #3

delete

Post: #4

It's all about value, it's all about being selfish (as you should be), and you're absolutely right Jariel.

TIME>Everything

Post: #5

This post perfectly describes the depressing feelings I get when dealing with non-wife material girls.

I'm not looking to settle down right now, so my guilt starts as soon as I get her number. This internal voice tells me its wrong to take them on a date or two and have sex with them if I'm not looking for an LTR. My goal is just to have a couple fun nights with them and get laid while treating them with kindness and respect. Isn't that innocent enough?

A long time ago, I called a mediocre girl back after a drunk hookup because I 'felt bad.' I kept justifying seeing her because it was 'the right thing to do.' Ended up getting attached and having a miserable relationship with her for almost 5 years. I learned my lesson, but the feelings of guilt still remain when I date and fuck girls I know from the get-go are not worthy of being my girlfriend. I love being single for now but not the feelings that accompany it.

Anyone feel me on this? Guys who don't feel guilty about avoiding commitment: what kind of mindset do you have when you are with your girl(s)?

Post: #6

For some reason in our society certain emotions and acts of decency are accepted as a one way street, which is foolish as any function relationship (keyword being functional), being one with a woman, a friend, even a larger societal institution such as a bank, needs to be a two-way street. Otherwise, it's a countdown till collapse. I'll give an example: People popping out kids they have no way of supporting. Somehow the burden is on everyone else to have the compassion to support these children (WIC, for instance in the US of A), yet there is on expectation on these same people to have the compassion to not burden everyone else with their children.

Jariel's post reflects a much needed paradigm shift. There's a ton of voices telling men to be a "good boyfriend" and to be there for a woman when she's not at her best, yet none of those voices are conveying the same message to women. This paradigm of "manning up" for lack of a better term is implicitly justified by the assumption that men are stronger than women. While this is true in many circumstances, is it true in the realm of male/female relationships? Women by and large have their choice of men, typically win out in a divorce, and are all but guaranteed the children in custody battles. Yet the burden is on men to make the relationship function, being the man and all. So since society writ large isn't going to enact the change to balance out relationships, the onus is on men individually to enact that change in their lives.

PS great point about not allowing "time put in" to be an excuse. Should someone keep doing heroin b/c it's been with them for 7 years?

Post: #7

Very necessary post. I have a hard time with this especially when it comes to girls abroad.

Not being from the culture and having more trouble reading them as people makes it easy to think that cutting them off is going to crush them. Its easy to mistake their femininity for emotional weakness and sometimes you both get caught up in the fantasy world that it could work out long term.

But really they know what they're getting into and they'll find someone on their level eventually.

Post: #8

(06-05-2015 04:57 PM)Eddie Winslow Wrote:  This post perfectly describes the depressing feelings I get when dealing with non-wife material girls.

I'm not looking to settle down right now, so my guilt starts as soon as I get her number. This internal voice tells me its wrong to take them on a date or two and have sex with them if I'm not looking for an LTR. My goal is just to have a couple fun nights with them and get laid while treating them with kindness and respect. Isn't that innocent enough?

A long time ago, I called a mediocre girl back after a drunk hookup because I 'felt bad.' I kept justifying seeing her because it was 'the right thing to do.' Ended up getting attached and having a miserable relationship with her for almost 5 years. I learned my lesson, but the feelings of guilt still remain when I date and fuck girls I know from the get-go are not worthy of being my girlfriend. I love being single for now but not the feelings that accompany it.

Anyone feel me on this? Guys who don't feel guilty about avoiding commitment: what kind of mindset do you have when you are with your girl(s)?

I can definitely relate to this and it essentially comes down to your core values and the kind of man you want to be. If you're getting the inkling on *some* of your dates that you probably shouldn't try to end the night with your unit in one hole and your thumb in the other with your belt around her neck, you may want to consider that feeling and why you're getting it. If you're getting it on *every* date, it's possibly some form of anxiety or some other issue that you'll need to work on internally.

Speaking from my own experience, even recently I've had situations where I haven't bothered pursuing after the first date because I don't want to have to justify going against my values just to get another notch. There are more than enough women who are interested in ONS / FWB out there; I don't need to deal with a woman who is going to burst into tears later (or worse) because she was seduced and dropped on her head.

In short, the more skilled you become at game the more you will be able to slash through a woman's shields and get right to her core, convincing her that you're her soul mate or romantic match without ever having any intention of doing more than railing her.

"With great power..."

Post: #9

When I was younger I spent a lot of time with the wrong chicks, years in fact with a few that I knew wasn't going to go anywhere. In the end you are doing a disservice to them and more importantly to yourself.

Post: #10

(06-05-2015 12:19 AM)jariel Wrote:  She's A Good Person

For some reason this line compelled me to look up an old Solomon II post, which are actually archived on ROK:

http://www.returnofkings.com/misc/The-Solomon-Group.pdf

Page 76 is the relevant page. Choice quote:

Quote:These days, your freshly busted girlfriend can stand naked right in front of God and everybody with the DNA of the man she was cheating on you with running down the inside of her thigh, look you straight in the eye and say “But I’m a good person”.

...

A woman who is a total bitch, selfish, scheming, prone to cheating and eternally spotlighting
will get righteously indignant with a man for not treating her like an itty bitty teensy weensy
loveable princess because, despite her faults, “She’s a good person”.

A good person? A GOOD PERSON?! What the fuck kind of bullshit response is
that? Everyone is lovable most of the time. Everyone cares about their family most of the
time. Everybody is willing to perform random acts of kindness most of the time. Everybody
is nice to their neighbors most of the time. Everybody puts someone else’s needs above their
own most of the time. Everybody is good to their partner most of the time. Everybody is
faithful most of the time.

Post: #11

There is no doubt in my mind, based on my own experiences and what I see; relationships make men soft.

I don't know if it's the 'feelings' that develop or because we tend to get apathetic when we have steady pussy (especially steady good pussy) at the flick of a switch, but the edge on your game wears, and I see lots of guys (myself included at times) misconstruing feelings - they think they 'love' her, but really 'it's what's easy'.

Women don't want a man who stays with her because it's the easiest thing, they want a man who stays with her because he feels for her, but also at the same time she knows that if he left he's back on his feet with a fresh next within a few weeks. As much as women (the world over, not just in the west, though the trait is a little more muted in more traditional societies) profess to 'hate players', nothing sets into motion the tingles and the dread like the knowledge to her that her man is attractive to other women.

And yes, lots of guys stay with girls because 'the breakup will crush her'...women are more like men in this way then most of us can ever understand. Most of you understand that, while not all women are the same, there's really nothing different between the way that woman X and woman Y ultimately make you feel - chicks look at dick sort of this way as well. She might have loved man X and been sad when it ended, but look how quickly she forgets when man Y enters the fray.

At the end of the day, flip it. The most devastating breakup I had in my life was with a girl who was extremely solid, but I had begun to wear tired of but stayed in it for the sex and the comfort, and for what? For her to quit me a few months later. That lesson was not wasted on me.

No woman is gonna stay with you because she thinks it's whats best for you; they are 100% in it for themselves, and you should be too.

Post: #12

I bailed on that Korean girl, I had to give 99% of my strength to do so, and it was before a big event in life. You experience these things, and you learn the hard way, I guess they make you a slightly stronger person.
The word 'resilient' describes some women very well.

Post: #13

Gonna have to listen to this one again..

Post: #14

This thread and She's Not Good Enough, which was also recently bumped, have hit me like a ton of bricks.

Every guy who stays in the game long enough to develop some skill and get good returns inevitably goes into a lull in which it's hard to find meaning on banging new girls non-stop. It's normal to start seeking intimacy, connection, feelings.

I love this:

Quote:Your relationship with her is not about her being a good person, it's about her being the right person. [...]. Furthermore, you have to remember that you've given them the time to demonstrate that they were the right one for you and to bring value to your life, yet they've failed to do that, again, for whatever reasons.

These two threads should be mandatory reads for anyone with good prospects on the line. Either they'll cement the prospects as worthy or help make your mind up to bail on them. It's not personal, it's just about not wasting anyone's time.

Post: #15

^ Don't waste your time, and do what's best for yourself. Jariel's threads make these seem like the most obvious principles in the game