Post: #1

Los Angeles follows Seattle in $15 hourly minimum wage

Quote:Los Angeles has become the largest city in the US to agree a $15 (£9.67) minimum wage.

The City Council voted 14-1 to pass the law in a victory for the national campaign to raise wages for low-paid workers.

Seattle and San Francisco have already agreed to increase the minimum wage to $15 by 2017 and 2018 respectively.

That compares with a $7.25 federal minimum wage which individual states can opt to beat or reduce.

"Today, Los Angeles becomes the latest and largest city to throw its support behind the legions of workers who ask for nothing less than to be paid a fair and decent wage," said Christine Owens, executive director of the National Employment Law Project, a lobby group for worker rights.

The $15 minimum will be in place by July 2020, according to the proposed legislation.

To get there, from July 2016, the wage will increase annually starting at $10.50. Non-profit organisations with 25 workers or fewer will have longer to raise wages.

"There's still work to be done, but you will not see this council shy away from its responsibility," Council President Herb Wesson said on his Twitter account.

US retail giant Walmart - the nation's largest private employer - announced in February it plans to raise wages for employees at its US stores.

By 1 February 2016, all current workers will earn at least $10 per hour, it said.

How do you guys feel about this?

My female co-workers were bitching that they don’t think somebody who flips burgers deserves $15/hr. They also think that there’s going to be loads of people running across the US-Mexico border coming to work for the higher salary. I countered that I doubt it, since people who come here across the border tend to work under the table and are paid less.

Post: #2

(05-19-2015 06:54 PM)WalterBlack Wrote:  My female co-workers were bitching that they don’t think somebody who flips burgers deserves $15/hr.

I think I already know the answer to this, but how many of your female co-workers have ever flipped burgers?

Post: #3

(05-19-2015 06:55 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

(05-19-2015 06:54 PM)WalterBlack Wrote:  My female co-workers were bitching that they don’t think somebody who flips burgers deserves $15/hr.

I think I already know the answer to this, but how many of your female co-workers have ever flipped burgers?

Zero!

One of them used to live in Kansas City, where she said she earned $23/hr before she came to LA. She was horrified at the fact that somebody with no education could make almost as much as her, who has a CPA and spent 4 years at college. I said “Well the burger flipper’s smarter than you, they have no student loans to pay back!”

Post: #4

(05-19-2015 06:59 PM)WalterBlack Wrote:  

(05-19-2015 06:55 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

(05-19-2015 06:54 PM)WalterBlack Wrote:  My female co-workers were bitching that they don’t think somebody who flips burgers deserves $15/hr.

I think I already know the answer to this, but how many of your female co-workers have ever flipped burgers?

Zero!

One of them used to live in Kansas City, where she said she earned $23/hr before she came to LA. She was horrified at the fact that somebody with no education could make almost as much as her, who has a CPA and spent 4 years at college. I said “Well the burger flipper’s smarter than you, they have no student loans to pay back!”

I heard about an illiterate or a functionally illiterate guy who just made nine figures. His name, Floyd Mayweather.

Post: #5

Meanwhile we still make 8.05 USD in Florida

Post: #6

Well shit, I'm about to take a mcjob and start stacking paper.

On a serious note, it will be interesting to see how long it takes for fast food and other businesses to switch over to machines that can do the same work as the burger flippers, and how much they cut their staff by. $15/hour is an extremely good wage. I think we will see a huge number of people go unemployed now in Los Angeles because none of the employers will have the money to hire more workers. A $15/hour minimum wage might sound good, but if it means 30% of the workforce becomes unemployed, it can't be a good idea, we are looking at the creation of another Depression with laws like this(not trying to sound like chicken little, but this is that bad of an idea).

Post: #7

I think it's a good idea. Even low-skilled, low IQ, or whatever designation the elite have for them people deserve a decent wage. Yes, even the people flipping burgers.

To the guys saying $15 is "way too much", how does Costco afford it then? I think the manosphere just hates poor people and considers them all a bunch of lazy-asses. I want the guy who makes my burger or dish to be able to afford food and rent. Then he is at least less likely to mug you or me for it.

Post: #8

Most fast food restaurants are going to switch over to machines with maybe 1 or 2 full time staff running the show.

What about restaurant and wait staff? Are tips deducted out?

Post: #9

(05-19-2015 07:17 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  I think it's a good idea. Even low-skilled, low IQ, or whatever designation the elite have for them people deserve a decent wage. Yes, even the people flipping burgers.

To the guys saying $15 is "way too much", how does Costco afford it then?

Costco makes all of their money by selling memberships. They also do not accept credit cards and are cash/check only to keep fees down.(they do take amex).

Most businesses cannot survive by having a $55 dollar annual fee to shop there the way costco can.

Tips are not deducted out in the state of California, so waitstaff will continue to make huge amounts of money in Los Angeles.

Post: #10

(05-19-2015 07:25 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Most fast food restaurants are going to switch over to machines with maybe 1 or 2 full time staff running the show.

What about restaurant and wait staff? Are tips deducted out?

"What you need to know about Los Angeles' $15 minimum wage"

Quote:I am a waitress who receives tips as part of my job. Will my hourly wages change?

Yes. In California, tipped employees cannot make less than minimum wage. The wage proposal would not exempt tipped employees from the new wage structure.

Post: #11

(05-19-2015 07:17 PM)eradicator Wrote:  I think we will see a huge number of people go unemployed now in Los Angeles because none of the employers will have the money to hire more workers. A $15/hour minimum wage might sound good, but if it means 30% of the workforce becomes unemployed, it can't be a good idea, we are looking at the creation of another Depression with laws like this(not trying to sound like chicken little, but this is that bad of an idea).

Even during the depression the unemployment rate was only 25%.

Post: #12

(05-19-2015 07:29 PM)eradicator Wrote:  

(05-19-2015 07:17 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  I think it's a good idea. Even low-skilled, low IQ, or whatever designation the elite have for them people deserve a decent wage. Yes, even the people flipping burgers.

To the guys saying $15 is "way too much", how does Costco afford it then?

Costco makes all of their money by selling memberships. They also do not accept credit cards and are cash/check only to keep fees down.(they do take amex).

Most businesses cannot survive by having a $55 dollar annual fee to shop there the way costco can.

Tips are not deducted out in the state of California, so waitstaff will continue to make huge amounts of money in Los Angeles.

In Canada Costco takes MC now and Amex is a credit card too. Also, I am not sure about them making their money by selling memberships. They make money by selling in bulk and buying in bulk at discounted rates. They have a policy of not marking anything up by more than 15% and they also only buy very few brands/items. Once they select your brand or item then they buy in bulk and pass those savings to the customer. The products they sell are usually high quality and they don't give much choice to their customers but I am okay with that.

Post: #13

(05-19-2015 07:17 PM)eradicator Wrote:  Well shit, I'm about to take a mcjob and start stacking paper.

On a serious note, it will be interesting to see how long it takes for fast food and other businesses to switch over to machines that can do the same work as the burger flippers, and how much they cut their staff by. $15/hour is an extremely good wage. I think we will see a huge number of people go unemployed now in Los Angeles because none of the employers will have the money to hire more workers. A $15/hour minimum wage might sound good, but if it means 30% of the workforce becomes unemployed, it can't be a good idea, we are looking at the creation of another Depression with laws like this(not trying to sound like chicken little, but this is that bad of an idea).

I remember several years ago...ok...maybe it was a couple decades ago...Taco Bell actually demo'd a machine in a store that could make tacos to order. I'm pretty sure that they can roll that out, and it's got to be way more complicated than a machine that makes burgers.

Post: #14

Step 1: Make low skilled workers more expensive to hire.
Step 2: ????
Step 3: Prosperity for all!

Post: #15

I'm skeptical of such a high minimum wage, but fine, let's accept it, for the sake of argument.

It does nothing to acknowledge the fact that the city has made housing here a totally unaffordable clusterfuck for poor and middle class people. Instead of making big moves on that, the city is saying "Suck it, let employers fix this shit!" And people will fall for it, because they think it's a law of fucking nature that housing must be expensive, and not that it's caused by bad government policy.

Post: #16

A few years ago I was hiring a copy editor in LA for full time at $15 an hour.

We got 200 resumes per day.

Post: #17

It's all been done before. Look at places like Norway. People eat and drink at home instead of going out. If they do go out, they pre-drink heavily and then spend as little as possible. As a result, fewer service sector jobs and more people who want to get out even though they make a lot of money (on paper).

Also, higher disposable income for the masses will just be absorbed by higher real estate prices. As a result, it will be more difficult to find work but still difficult to earn enough to make ends meet for most people.

Post: #18

If minimum wage workers were worth $15, they'd get it. I'm not paying my receptionist $31,200 plus extras to text her friends all day. If this comes here, she'll just be fired. I can use the money to upgrade the phone systems.

Post: #19

"Also, higher disposable income for the masses will just be absorbed by higher real estate prices. "

When the supply of housing is limited by government policy.

When the supply is not limited, housing is like any other good - it sells at cost plus a little profit. If housing wasn't so limited, it would cost little more than the cost of construction, $100-200 per sq foot. When the city limits building heights and drags its feet on issuing permits, requires parking and setbacks and a thousand other things, it drives costs way up.

"If minimum wage workers were worth $15, they'd get it. I'm not paying my receptionist $31,200 plus extras to text her friends all day. If this comes here, she'll just be fired. I can use the money to upgrade the phone systems."

No. Companies pay people their replacement cost. If an employee makes me $100 an hour but I can find a replacement for him for $10 an hour easily, I won't pay him much more than $10 an hour. If you forbid me from paying him $10, then I'll pay him $15. That's not all jobs, of course, but that's the idea behind the minimum wage.

Post: #20

Won't the cost of the food have to simply go up to afford the help? And would people be willing to pay much higher costs for the same food?

Post: #21

For those who think a higher minimum wage won't have any impact on unemployment, then why doesn't Los Angeles just make the min wage 100 dollars an hour.

It would make almost everyone in LA much wealthier and their poorest citizens would thank the city government profusely for their wise economic stewardship.

In all seriousness though...

This will hurt small businesses the most, because they will be least able to adapt to the market conditions that 15hr produces and will force more people to become economic criminals if they don't close up shop, because a lot of businesses can't survive paying that wage, in particular business that hire young workers just starting out in the working world and poor people willing to do an honest job.

Businesses will hire less poor and young people and slim their hires to only the most competent and experienced workers that are actually worth that wage and then maybe supplement those workers with illegal aliens.

All in all, this will prove to be a complete disaster for LA. It will hurt those who it purports to help the most, help the least in need of a helping hand the most (highly capitalized major companies able to adapt to the change in labor law) and put some small businesses out of business creating more people on the government dole.

Californian government creating more inequality! For the Win!

Post: #22

I notice... they always have a new excuse for why the minimum wage should be raised

Post: #23

(05-19-2015 08:24 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  No. Companies pay people their replacement cost. If an employee makes me $100 an hour but I can find a replacement for him for $10 an hour easily, I won't pay him much more than $10 an hour. If you forbid me from paying him $10, then I'll pay him $15. That's not all jobs, of course, but that's the idea behind the minimum wage.

The standard take is that people get paid according to their marginal revenue product. If you legislate that the payment must be no less than $15/hr the only adjustments employers can make are to shed workers until they get to that MRP, work them harder up to the new limit, mechanize the jobs, and probably a combination of all three.

I lied. There's really a fourth option. If they can't make the other options work they scale back. They're not obligated to stay in business.

Post: #24

On the principle of it all, I'm of the mindset that the minimum wage should purposely NOT be a livable income. Taking a person in an unskilled, low wage job and increasing their perceived value i.e. though monetary reimbursement is akin to a woman receiving unmerited attention which increases her perceived SMV.

Aside from that, logically thinking...

As a business owner, my production costs are going to increase. I'm either going to outsource my work to someone who'll work for less, I'll hire less employees, or I'll increase the cost of the product to the end user.

My product is something that is purchased by the minimum wage earning demographic, and now their cost living has increased. So the government steps in and raises the wage again. So now I've got to up the cost. And we have a downward spiral thanks to greater government regulation.

https://mises.org/library/how-minimum-wa...se-poverty

Quote:The standard of living is not raised by arbitrary laws and decrees imposing higher wage rates, but by the rise in the productivity of labor, which increases the supply of goods relative to the supply of labor and thus reduces prices relative to wage rates, and thereby allows prices to rise by less than wages when the quantity of money and volume of spending in the economic system increase.

Post: #25

Does that mean waiters will make 15 an hour with tip?