The "Do You Even Deadlift" Clinic

(06-14-2017 10:09 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  Sounds like you are doing touch and goes. Try resetting every rep like shown in the video.

It's not that, because the bar isn't even hitting the ground during my reps. Any lower and my back arches, and forms breaks down. If I keep my backs straight, then I'm almost squattting, which isn't right either. So the bar ends up around my shins, before I bring it back up.

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If you are able to come up from the bar on the ground with good form then you should be able to do the exact reverse as that video I posted shows. Either way sounds like maybe you have a hamstring mobility issue if you are having trouble bringing the bar fully back to the ground which RDL's will help with.

I mean hell you could just drop the bar at the top of the lift everytime. I know plenty of dudes who don't care about doing the eccentric portion of the lift at all. I don't recommend it but if you can't put together a method that works for you then it's an option.

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OK. I'll try this and report back.

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Strikeback, thanks for this thread and the lifting advice you've given to the forum in general! Its been ridiculously useful and informative for me.

I have one question though:

When do you recommend training abs? Do you think its wise to do it after my compound lifts?

Thanks again, I appreciate all the information you've shared.

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Would trap bars be better for the back since it seems it helps prevent back rounding. I'm only doing the deadlift once a month maybe eventually every 2 weeks, since I can't get a clear answer from doctors regarding scoliosis. Another said my tight hamstrings would be a problem.

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It is generally easier to keep you back straight with a trap bar, yes.

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Suspect i got a navel hernia from deadlifting. Anyone else had this problem? Can I still keep lifting?

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On the 105 kg I felt my hands slipping. Grip is now my weakest link so I will try hook grip tomorrow. Hook grip is supposed to be painful at first but it is after all preferred olympic grip and you do it naturally overhand. Mixed grip seems a bit weird to me and supposedly leads to uneven body sides but is easy. I could counter that by using different hands each time. Opinions, go for hook grip and endure pain or go for mixed grip?

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Put some chalk, that might help, since you have sweating hands.

I have also seen people putting some kind of sponge on the bar (the same you find inside the mattress), but I have never tried that.


Speaking of deadlifts, I broke 150kg today on Friday for reps. I'll stop there, and will decide if I want to go further up, since I don't want to buy a few pairs of new pants!

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@sterling_archer

Can always just use wrist straps if you never plan to compete

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Actually my hands are not sweaty but my grip is not strong enough. Couple that with small hands any you have something which prevents you from lifting heavy. Luckily we straps and different grips to help.
Stalin, I would prefer not to use straps. Better now to build grip and avoid hassle of tying straps to a bar.

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If that is the case, then you have to increase your grip strength. That you can do by doing forearms - Arnold Press, and to some extent, biceps curls.


Speaking of small hands, Jean Claude Van Damme has also small hands!

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(05-20-2018 02:49 PM)Irenicus Wrote:  Speaking of small hands, Jean Claude Van Damme has also small hands!

I feel more motivated now!

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Just came from the gym. From the first to the last warmup set I used hook grip, in order to practice it. The last set, 110 kg was using straps. It felt really good and lift was much easier to do. Why I did two different grips? Maybe one day I will compete or whatever and I want to have strong grip in the case straps are not allowed.

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(05-20-2018 02:26 PM)sterling_archer Wrote:  Stalin, I would prefer not to use straps. Better now to build grip and avoid hassle of tying straps to a bar.

Agreed, just wasn't sure if you were more concerned about lifting the weight than you were about building your grip.

The best way to build grip is repetition. Do more deadlift, heavy rackpulls, farmer's carries, static holds, and wrist curls also help. The more the merrier.

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In my opinion there is no point to deadlift unless you're competing, or you just... really like it. Not a bodybuilding movement plus high potential to snap your shit up. So, not something to do if you're lifting for the long haul (10+ years) to look good.

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Download convict conditioning 2, good chapter on how to develop grip strength in there.

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(05-21-2018 11:28 AM)LexisNexis Wrote:  In my opinion there is no point to deadlift unless you're competing, or you just... really like it. Not a bodybuilding movement plus high potential to snap your shit up. So, not something to do if you're lifting for the long haul (10+ years) to look good.

I'd like to sway your opinion if you're open to it.

While I do agree that there are more productive movements than the deadlift when talking purely about body building (rows), the deadlift is one of the most beneficial strength movements there are. It is a great lift for overall body strength and conditioning, and also has a lot of carry over to the real world.

Also, if you are body building, I would still use deadlift as another movement to have in the arsenal. Attacking the muscle group(s) from all angles is the best way to build them anyway.

As for injury, I'd like to quote myself here:

(02-27-2018 08:14 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  I'd like to speak on deadlifts for a minute here.

There are some misconceptions about this movement I'd like to shed light on. first, watch the first 60 seconds of this video:





First thing I want to say is "Yikes."

Second thing I want to say is that contrary to popular believe, he is not on his way to "snap city." People all to often relate poor deadlift form to potential injury with spinal discs, but this is very unlikely as you will pull your spinal erector muscles way before you do any skeletal damage picking up weight off the floor. You are far far more likely to fuck your spine up squatting than you are deadlifting as compacting your spine with weight straddled directly on top of it is much more traumatic to your bones than using your body as a lever. All the muscles on your back, most specifically your erectors, are there to support and protect your spine. When doing a movement like the deadlift, these muscles will fail you before you bones fail you; this is partially their function. That said, pulling your back muscles sucks, and tearing them sucks even more. This brings me to my third thing which I touched upon in another thread.

Third thing is that this kid in the video is leaving a lot of gains on the table, and he is missing a lot of the function of the deadlift in the first place... even worse he is doing deficit deadlifts with this shit form. You see, while the deadlift is considered a "back movement" your back doesn't actually do the moving in this lift. Your back's job in the deadlift is to hold the weight, so that your posterior chain can lift it off of the floor and up to lockout. Your glutes, hamstrings, quads, and hips do the moving here. By keeping your back straight, rigid, and tight the muscles are staying contracted throughout the entire lift. This sort of "static hold" you back is doing is working your lats, erectors, traps, and even your core.

A final point: if you want to overload your deadlift, then use boxes, do rack pulls, do it in a rack with bands hanging from overhead, etc. There are plenty of ways to pull more weight than you can actually pull from the floor. Otherwise you are just cheating yourself and ego lifting.

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Holy shit that arch at the beginning! Btw, alpha destiny also made a video about how lifters backs don't snap just easily.





P.S.
I LOVE deadlifts and will have them always in any routine I will follow in the future. The sense of achievement is amazing when you pull each time more weight. Curious thing I noticed is impression loaded bar makes on those who pass.
I lifted today just 110 kg, which is for me as a newbie pretty big deal, but even that weight was the center of attention of anyone who passed by me as I loaded the bar and prepared. Chicks especially. Most people avoid heavy compound lifts.

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(05-20-2018 01:00 PM)Akwesi Wrote:  Suspect i got a navel hernia from deadlifting. Anyone else had this problem? Can I still keep lifting?

You should get that looked at.

If they fix it with surgery (and hopefully without mesh, complications aplenty with mesh), you might want to make ab work central to your workouts for a few months or years.

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(06-15-2017 12:35 AM)dro323 Wrote:  After about 2 years now I've finally noticed the correlation between me doing deadlifts/squats & me having a horrible pain from my lower back all the way down my left leg. (sciatic nerve)

No more deadlifts /squats for me.

What other exercises do y'all recommend I begin to slowly implement that will work the muscles that deadlifts /squats work?

What are the best alternative exercises? I just haven't been able to get the form right.

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Leg press and trap bar deadlift would probably be my choices.

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(05-23-2018 07:28 AM)Arado Wrote:  

(06-15-2017 12:35 AM)dro323 Wrote:  After about 2 years now I've finally noticed the correlation between me doing deadlifts/squats & me having a horrible pain from my lower back all the way down my left leg. (sciatic nerve)

No more deadlifts /squats for me.

What other exercises do y'all recommend I begin to slowly implement that will work the muscles that deadlifts /squats work?

What are the best alternative exercises? I just haven't been able to get the form right.

Dro: Not sure how I missed this one. There are a lot of things you could try.

Have you tried widening your stance?

Mobility work might stop sciatic pain dead in its tracks. Cossack squats (youtube this) are useful mobility.

It's really hard to say from here. I think foam rolling is pretty gay but it might help you out.

You could try some unilateral stuff. Bulgarian split squats, weighted step ups .... hesitate to recommend lunges but possibly lunges, just don't do the BB variety, put dumbbells in your hands so you can dump the weight and not snap your shit up.

You might find that moderately heavy sandbag bear-hug style squats fixes your problem.

And you could just skip leg day except for some bodyweight squats (with dumbbells or weighted vest if you feel like it, in rep ranges of like 5x15 or 1x50+) and hit upper body with a vengeance. Chicks don't really care what your legs look like.

Arado: Drop weight, mass reps, every day? If you have no reason to not do something other than you suck at it then maybe just try to do it more often and get better at it.

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Hey y'all, I'm back in the Lifting Lounge!

(05-19-2018 03:24 AM)Cyr Wrote:  Strikeback, thanks for this thread and the lifting advice you've given to the forum in general! Its been ridiculously useful and informative for me.

I have one question though:

When do you recommend training abs? Do you think its wise to do it after my compound lifts?

Thanks again, I appreciate all the information you've shared.

You're welcome

As for abs, you can do it after your compound lifts, but probably want to keep a set in the tank if you feel a bit tired. Ab cramps when you go balls to the wall after deadlifting and hard ab workouts are no joke... well it's actually rather funny to be stuck in a weird position unable to move for about 5-10 minutes!

Having said that, my father, of all people, misheard me when I said he should not do it, and only do twice a week abs, because the blessed old man is rather deaf. He instead did it twice a day, sometimes three, including after lifting heavy, and in his mid-late 60s, he can bust out 10 reps of *standing* ab wheel rollouts that makes me feel I don't even lift. And he doesn't need no belt when deadlifting either, his abs are too big.

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About the deadlift, I used to do it because I competed in powerlifting. I haven't competed for a couple of years (time, other commitments, powerlifting politics etc.) but I still love the deadlift. I don't do it for bodybuilding or anything body really, and my boxing coach complains that it can make me a bit stiff the morning after when I do my conditioning workout with him. I deadlift because after standing upright with a heavy ass barbell, I feel like I've just conquered the world.

There's a guy I know who's 5'4" with tiny hands, and he deadlifts 300kg with hook grip (which is harder for smaller hands). You don't have small hands, you need stronger grip. Some of that come with grip specific training, some just come from you needing to be more aggressive and not so afraid of the weight. Grab and squeeze the bar like you're gonna kick its ass and destroy it. Chalk is a must if you lift heavy, and especially if you have sweaty hands like mine.

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