Post: #1

I remember when I first started reading about inner game, a lot of the concepts were really hard to swallow.

One in particular that I never really believed was "you are the prize (and act accordingly)".

One reason I think guys have trouble accepting this frame is because it's hard to believe you're the prize when reality is giving you ample evidence to the contrary.

Men are logical creatures and we look for real-life evidence and reasons for taking a given position.

The evidence seems to run counter to you being the prize.

After all, YOU are out there pursuing chicks, YOU are actively learning game and struggling to upgrade your lifestyle and working out and building a career, and so on and so forth, ALL for the end result of getting more girls and hotter girls.

If that doesn't make girls the definition of a 'prize' I don't know what does.

That's on the one hand...

But let's fast forward almost a decade, hundreds of girls, and countless experiences later.

And let me assure you with full confidence that you, the man, ARE the prize in the battle of the sexes.

Consider a few things:

1. We live in a matriarchy masquerading as a patriarchy.

Women, taken as a whole, do jack shit and men do all of the hardest and most demanding work (including warfare, man's unique privilege).

A woman's luxury is almost always paid for in blood and sweat by her man (or men).

Her jobs of childrearing and housewifery require minimal effort and mental exertion, and that's precisely why they appeal to women.


2. Ask yourself a question: if a man blithely follows the conventional path of marriage and kids, who stands to benefit, and who stands to lose the most...?

Of course we all know the answer to that, especially in the Western world.

With Marriage, the woman has 'trapped' the man in the most literal sense.

She can now put her dumbass meandering career on temporary pause (to be extended indefinitely once she "accidentally" forgets to take her birth control, with the ostensibly legitimate excuse of having to be a mother and housewife).

While the husband now has to work twice as hard to satisfy his increasingly unattractive and more demanding wife (and kids), he also slowly starts to realize that all along he, himself, has been his wife's accomplice in putting his own damn self between a rock and a hard place.

And now with a wife, kids, a houseful of crap and on average, tens of thousands of dollars in debt, his best choice is to slave away and slave away some more.

The wife drives him mercilessly by guilt tripping him that he's always working and never has time to spend with her and the kids, knowing perfectly well that this encourages him to actually spend *less* time at home and more time earning the money that finances her lifestyle.

She further manipulates him using the children as leverage, playing on his sense of decency and fear of disapprobation and being a bad father/bad man, which she, and his mother before her, have trained him to dread more than anything.

His second best choice, which is no choice at all, is to file for divorce.

In this case, the wife is 'entitled' to enslave him for a long time to come, even though now she's withdrawing the reciprocal services which the marriage CONTRACT provided for.

And if there are kids involved, he's really up shit's creek without a paddle.

3. Most men enter into some variation on this theme of slavery with glee.

They suppose women to be powerless, weak, helpless, stupid, and desperately in need of saving by a REAL man.

And women exploit a man's protective instinct in the same manner that they exploit his sex instinct, by exaggerating the characteristics which trigger this protectiveness.

The more imbecilic, frail, clumsy, inept, ditzy and utterly incapable of self care a woman can portray herself to be, the more likely she can snag a 'daddy'.

So:

- if the man is taking care of the woman

- if he is slaving his life away for her comfort

- if he is going to war for her

- if he is defending her honor in public disputes as befits a proper gentleman (who was raised by his mom precisely in anticipation of this,his wife's exploitation of him)

- if he is decreeing from positions of power to give more of his fellow man's hard-earned money to women under all kinds of dubious circumstances, and threatens his fellow man with loss of liberty, property and life for violation of these edicts

...then one really must ask, WHO is the prize?

Does any slave stand proud and consider himself lucky - no, blessed! - when he's been purchased by a nice looking massah?

A buffalo may be big and strong but it doesn't take but a little girl of 8 to lead him around by the nose plowing the field for her.

Form follows function in nature.

Woman's function isn't hard physical labor or fighting, thus the forms that her power takes aren't readily visible, and are thus quite erroneously dismissed as not existing.

But female power is very real and very jiu-jitsu-esque.

It operates by subterfuge, manipulation, guilting, shaming, ego-attack and other subtle means that use the man's own instincts and energies against him and to her benefit.

If men can be convinced, as they have been, that they are oppressors (guilt), sexual predators (shame), big and strong (ego inflation), not strong enough (ego attack), bad husbands (guilt), or any of a million other things that can be used and contradicted as convenience necessitates, to ruthlessly manipulate them without lifting a finger, then it makes perfect sense that women would spend so much time on the business of their business: subterfuge and manipulation.

Their chief outward subterfuge consists of what Chinweizu calls 'glamour' in his awesome book The Anatomy of Female Power (must read book for any man).

This is the manufacturing of sexual attractiveness via makeup, clothing and various optical illusions.

A littler earlier, before sexual maturity devolves upon them the task of glamorization, they begin their practices of manipulation as taught to them by their mothers and grandmothers.

So precocious are little girls in this domain that by the time they're 10 they've got the grown up males in their lives wrapped around their little oscar meyer weiner fingers, just like their mommies.

They hyperbolize their ineptitude, their physical weakness, their dodo-headedness.

They learn to skillfully shed tears, pout, act standoffish, call upon an authority figure, create guilt, withhold attention.

While boys are busily rehearsing for their roles as beasts of burden, girls are learning the basics of puppet mastery.

It should be clear by now that it is the female who engages in predatory behavior, seldom the man.

Some translations:

He's a hard worker and a good man ::: he will make an excellent slave and rarely give me grief
He's a man's man, a real macho guy ::: he has an overcompensatory ego and will be incredibly easy to exploit
He's a gentleman ::: his mother removed all friction for his transition to my personal slave; too easy
I want a man who makes me feel safe ::: I want a man who is unaware of my manipulation of his protective instinct and how I erroneously conflate it with sexuality to get what I want from him
I want a man who can take care of ::: I want to engage in mindless idiocy for the rest of my life on his dime
He'll be a good father ::: once I manage to get pregnant, he ain't goin' nowhere

No matter where you are in your level of game, to say that women are the prize is absolutely ludicrous by all accounts and all available evidence.

All you've got to do is open your eyes and see through the bullshit.

To call a woman the prize, no matter how hot she is, and even if it's just in the context of casual sex, is like a diver saying to a hungry great white shark "whew! I'm so glad I finally found you."

Post: #2

Like male mantises and spiders, we are compelled by the forces of nature to seek our own demise. Though human women usually don't actually eat us alive, that principle is still at play in our species in other ways.

Women are predators to the beta provider, not the lover stud (though they may still try). Inasmuch as we are the latter, we are the prize.

Post: #3

Have you recently read Esther Vilar?

(03-22-2015 12:00 PM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  Some translations:

He's a hard worker and a good man ::: he will make an excellent slave and rarely give me grief
He's a man's man, a real macho guy ::: he has an overcompensatory ego and will be incredibly easy to exploit
He's a gentleman ::: his mother removed all friction for his transition to my personal slave; too easy
I want a man who makes me feel safe ::: I want a man who is unaware of my manipulation of his protective instinct and how I erroneously conflate it with sexuality to get what I want from him
I want a man who can take care of ::: I want to engage in mindless idiocy for the rest of my life on his dime
He'll be a good father ::: once I manage to get pregnant, he ain't goin' nowhere

No matter where you are in your level of game, to say that women are the prize is absolutely ludicrous by all accounts and all available evidence.

All you've got to do is open your eyes and see through the bullshit.

To call a woman the prize, no matter how hot she is, and even if it's just in the context of casual sex, is like a diver saying to a hungry great white shark "whew! I'm so glad I finally found you."

Post: #4

(03-22-2015 12:25 PM)philosophical_recovery Wrote:  Have you recently read Esther Vilar?

Actually yes I recently finished her lesser known book The Polygamous Sex.

Post: #5

Also, if you get to know enough women your age in depth, they're all losers. Up to their ass in debt of all kinds, making no money, shitty home (that's probably filthy), etc. I haven't yet found one that was anywhere close to my level of success in life, and that bar isn't very high.

Post: #6

It clearly benefits women because their value (beauty) is so temporary.

What makes you attracted to her is guaranteed to fade away sooner or later.

However, what makes HER attracted to You is expected to stay there most of your lives.
For example, what if you were 1/2 an inch shorter every year, to where by 40 years old you would stop at 5'3. She would lose attraction for you

Imagine if every year you made $1 less per hour. She would no longer have the high earning man she married....so shed lose attraction.

If a man's value decreased every year, NO woman would agree to marriage, since they could plainly see they dont benefit long term.

The reverse is the truth with women... because while you can grow your career, her beauty is guaranteed to fade every year. Youre buying a rapidly depreciating asset, and in most cases was already broken in by the time you married her.


The ONLY incentive for a man to get a good deal out of marriage, is if you took her virginity and had her during her prime years, and also she gave you a great family and was a great wife. That's literally the only conditions where youd be getting a good deal with marriage.

Obviously most men agree to very shitty deals and pay full price for used up hos

Post: #7

(03-22-2015 12:42 PM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  

(03-22-2015 12:25 PM)philosophical_recovery Wrote:  Have you recently read Esther Vilar?

Actually yes I recently finished her lesser known book The Polygamous Sex.

Where did you get a copy? Amazon shows it's being reviewed for accuracy and they pulled it for the time being. It's probably something to do with the translation since I think the original was in German.

Post: #8

(03-22-2015 05:42 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  Where did you get a copy? Amazon shows it's being reviewed for accuracy and they pulled it for the time being. It's probably something to do with the translation since I think the original was in German.

http://naturalthinker.net/trl/texts/Vila...ousSex.pdf

Post: #9

(03-22-2015 03:09 PM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  However, what makes HER attracted to You is expected to stay there most of your lives.
For example, what if you were 1/2 an inch shorter every year, to where by 40 years old you would stop at 5'3. She would lose attraction for you

Imagine if every year you made $1 less per hour. She would no longer have the high earning man she married....so shed lose attraction.

If a man's value decreased every year, NO woman would agree to marriage, since they could plainly see they dont benefit long term.

Well said! Accurate and right up there with the master key versus shitty lock metaphor.

Post: #10

(03-22-2015 03:09 PM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  The ONLY incentive for a man to get a good deal out of marriage, is if you took her virginity and had her during her prime years, and also she gave you a great family and was a great wife. That's literally the only conditions where youd be getting a good deal with marriage.

Disco, you made some great points, but I disagree with the idea that a "great family" and a "great wife" are incentives to get married, simply because your "great wife" can wake up one day and decide she wants a divorce which means she no longer wants to be your wife and she's breaking up your "great family".

So in that sense, she's not offering you anything that is guaranteed.

On the other hand, a man will never wake up one day and say "I don't want to provide for my family anymore." When a woman ropes you into a certain lifestyle, and you have children, you'll work to death to keep that lifestyle, for her and the kids, she knows it's virtually guaranteed, unless you suffer any type of health or job-related issues that are out of your hands, but that's not the same as you just making a decision to quit, again, a decision you would never consciously make.

There are certain inherent guarantees that come with marriage that make it a much better deal for a woman, but there's nothing in it that can be guaranteed for a man, it's at best a roll of the dice, and when you're rolling dice, and something is on the line, you're gambling.

Post: #11

What Disco's saying though is that if you have to gamble, you have to do it with the odds in your favor and not like a degen asshole. Divorce probably follows a bell curve distribution with the Mormon couple at the far end and other couples falling in the middle and lower end. You know you can check back in 10, 20 years and they'll be together. In fact, this applies to everyone in my neighborhood's parents and even all my highschool classmates. It's only when I hit college that I started running into kids of divorced parents.

Post: #12

(03-22-2015 09:19 PM)CactusCat589 Wrote:  In fact, this applies to everyone in my neighborhood's parents and even all my highschool classmates. It's only when I hit college that I started running into kids of divorced parents.

That's because the sample size increased.

Maybe you lived in a community that painted a certain type of picture, and once you got outside of your community, you were forced to realize that your community was not the norm.

Look, I get guys want to get married, want to have families, want to have what their parents had. I'm sure a number of us are from conventional, two biological parent homes with siblings, and we look back at how great our childhoods actually were.

But times have changed.

Some of us had/have amazing mothers, as our mothers die, those types of women are going with them. We're dealing with a new brand of females, so the expectation to have the same results is unreasonable.

At this point of the game, entering into marriage with the types of females we have at our disposal, is a gamble. Just because you learn how to count cards, doesn't mean you're no longer gambling, you're just somewhat minimizing the risk.

The marriage game is still rigged and we're playing with cheaters, good luck.

Post: #13

(03-22-2015 09:29 PM)jariel Wrote:  Look, I get guys want to get married, want to have families, want to have what their parents had. I'm sure a number of us are from conventional, two biological parent homes with siblings, and we look back at how great our childhoods actually were.

But times have changed.

This is by far the most difficult part of my transition to the red pill. I had an amazing mother who never cheated on my father, and when my father got sick with cancer, she stayed by his side and slept at the hospital next to his bed almost every night for two years until he died.

At the time I was aware of the game (the basics anyway), but what my mother did and how she was made me want to believe in the blue pill and I fell back into that trap when I met my ex wife. I wanted to believe that there were still some women like that.

It's very difficult to accept the truth and see today's women for what they really are... and it took a failed marriage (getting cheated on) to REALLY open my eyes - this time, for good. It feels like a kid being shown that Santa isn't real and multiply that by 100.

Post: #14

"Anatomy of female power" looks like an interesting book. It is listed as 271 usd on amazon.com, and not available for kindle.

I found it scanned at rawness:
http://therawness.com/AFP.pdf

There's a discussion page too on the same site:
http://therawness.com/anatomy-of-female-...sion-page/

Post: #15

I really just had the enlightenment that if for whatever reason I meet a girl in a foreign country and I bring her back knowing there will be better opportunities for my children, I think I can get a pre-nup, (guessing marriage visa is the easiest way to get a chick to the U.S.) the rest though I just know going in, yeah she and me probably won't work out long run.

Have to chalk up the cost to the ability to have children - even then she can turn on you and try to keep the kids from seeing you. I would have to risk on my instinct the girl's motherly nature will override the hamster and she will know deep down if we aren't together the kids still need to see and have a good relationship with their dad. I think that type of girl is pretty easy to pick out. Frivorce girls on the otherhand I agree make up such a huge number of chicks it isn't worth trusting your gut. You go in knowing you will most likely end up frivorced.

Hell if it gets bad, initiate the divorce (hopefully easy pre-nup (that includes children custody payment clauses) divorce yourself). Get out early, you really wanted kids now you took the best shot at success in the U.S. you could hope for so you can't blame yourself. You got your kids to look forward to. It's a shit sandwhich, I think building a family the best you can is still worth it.

I do have faith that U.S. custody laws and whatnot will improve significantly - I think societal problems will start sticking out like such a sore thumb something will have to be done.

Post: #16

Well-written, thanks.

For me, the conclusion or takeaway to remember from OP's piece is to internalize and repeat to yourself that you are the prize, especially mentally during your interactions. It has been repeated ad nauseam on this board but actually telling yourself that you the judge of whether the girl you are speaking with is worth your time, instead of frantically racking your brain to determine what incredible thing you can say next too keep the interaction going, has real positive effects. Women have acute vibe sensors that can detect power changes which affect them and their decision-making from moment to moment. That is what body language, tone, external stimuli are all based upon.

I've been in situations where the interaction was all but dead, and I forced myself to mentally believe I was the prize here and the shift in dynamic lead to the bang. It sounds like new-agey bullshit but I believe it.

Naturals live life thinking they are a gift and prize to the world and woman - why shouldn't you? Just because a woman is attractive - is that reason enough for you to pedastalize her? What effort did she go through? What pain did she endure to allow her to reach that status in your mind? Did she discover the cure for cancer?

Inner game really boils down to respecting yourself and not allowing women to dictate how you feel about them - especially when they do not deserve it

Post: #17

Quote:That's because the sample size increased.

Maybe you lived in a community that painted a certain type of picture, and once you got outside of your community, you were forced to realize that your community was not the norm.

Look, I get guys want to get married, want to have families, want to have what their parents had. I'm sure a number of us are from conventional, two biological parent homes with siblings, and we look back at how great our childhoods actually were.

But times have changed.

Some of us had/have amazing mothers, as our mothers die, those types of women are going with them. We're dealing with a new brand of females, so the expectation to have the same results is unreasonable.

At this point of the game, entering into marriage with the types of females we have at our disposal, is a gamble. Just because you learn how to count cards, doesn't mean you're no longer gambling, you're just somewhat minimizing the risk.

The marriage game is still rigged and we're playing with cheaters, good luck.

Yeah, I grew up in a very good neighborhood where divorce was unheard of, even in the liberal state of Oregon. The community was too much like an extended family, to divorce was to not exist anymore. The problem is that children of these places usually tend to go to college, where none of that upbringing matters anymore.

Quote:Also, if you get to know enough women your age in depth, they're all losers. Up to their ass in debt of all kinds, making no money, shitty home (that's probably filthy), etc. I haven't yet found one that was anywhere close to my level of success in life, and that bar isn't very high.

The problem with guys is that they KNOW this, but they can't do anything about it because they either haven't tasted success with even these low-class women or they're in a rut. We need to canonize a sexual Maslow Hierarchy of Needs. At the lower levels of the pyramid, guys, even if they are conscious that these girls objectively are low-value besides their looks - their looks ARE the value, and this leads to the debasement of men. You have to rise above the level of fighting for scraps to allow the precepts of inner game to work. And you have to stay there. That's where you're baller, you pick and choose which hot girls you'll take in, and can behave as a man without any trouble.

Even though I'd like to say I've completely internalized my confidence, I know I have an ecosystem. I need to have a core group of high-value friends who are as driven, stylish, and about as tall as me if they're guys and pretty and good-natured if they're girls. I need to have the security of my routines - of going to the gym, trying new venues, getting good grades, and making personal progress in my goals and socializing with people because when I start working in some new city, I need to know I can build it all up from scratch again. For most guys, they will always be subject to external validation to some extent. Without it, it can really fuck them up and lead to this inane pedestalization of women.

Post: #18

The reality is that for a guy like myself (I am a somewhat average guy in my mid 20s and haven't fully sorted out my career yet), living in the Anglosphere, the dating marketplace is absolutely relentless. When you analyse the dating "scene" (i.e. marketplace) for people in their 20s in the Western world, I think that the truth is that the man is definitely not the prize (unless you are very rich and/or famous).

I understand what you are saying Vincent Vinturi, but who the "prize" is, is dependent on who has more value in that particular situation.

The man only becomes the prize when he reaches around age 30, and he is aiming to date women who are around the same age as him (or slightly younger). This is because, at this age:
- Women have already hit the wall or are about to, so their sexual marketplace value is decreasing rapidly.
- The women who want to have kids are desperate to find a husband to do so with.
- Men generally have more money, an established career, more life experience and better game.

The way I approach inner game is that I recognise that my value is increasing, and that in the future, I will be the prize.

Post: #19

(03-22-2015 09:55 PM)dies irae Wrote:  "Anatomy of female power" looks like an interesting book. It is listed as 271 usd on amazon.com, and not available for kindle.

I found it scanned at rawness:
http://therawness.com/AFP.pdf

There's a discussion page too on the same site:
http://therawness.com/anatomy-of-female-...sion-page/

One of the best red pill books out there! Price is so high because the book was banned in the US I've heard, because it reveals the truth about women. That author is a genius. Read it.

Post: #20

(03-23-2015 06:33 AM)Smooth Operator Wrote:  

(03-22-2015 09:55 PM)dies irae Wrote:  "Anatomy of female power" looks like an interesting book. It is listed as 271 usd on amazon.com, and not available for kindle.

I found it scanned at rawness:
http://therawness.com/AFP.pdf

There's a discussion page too on the same site:
http://therawness.com/anatomy-of-female-...sion-page/

One of the best red pill books out there! Price is so high because the book was banned in the US I've heard, because it reveals the truth about women. That author is a genius. Read it.

They banned it? I definitely have to read it now

Post: #21

(03-22-2015 10:40 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  initiate the divorce (hopefully easy pre-nup (that includes children custody payment clauses) divorce yourself).

At least in the jurisdictions I've investigated, you can NOT prenup child support payments or child custody.

Those are determined at the time of separation/divorce and are done so with the "best interest of the child" in mind.

Your ex and you can agree to whatever you want, because who knows better for the kid than the two parents - but in the event of a dispute - the court and law will reign.

Post: #22

^ this. you can forget about anything in your prenup purporting to absolve you of child support or anything establishing custody arrangements in advance.

Post: #23

(03-22-2015 09:42 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

(03-22-2015 09:29 PM)jariel Wrote:  Look, I get guys want to get married, want to have families, want to have what their parents had. I'm sure a number of us are from conventional, two biological parent homes with siblings, and we look back at how great our childhoods actually were.

But times have changed.

This is by far the most difficult part of my transition to the red pill. I had an amazing mother who never cheated on my father, and when my father got sick with cancer, she stayed by his side and slept at the hospital next to his bed almost every night for two years until he died.

At the time I was aware of the game (the basics anyway), but what my mother did and how she was made me want to believe in the blue pill and I fell back into that trap when I met my ex wife. I wanted to believe that there were still some women like that.

It's very difficult to accept the truth and see today's women for what they really are... and it took a failed marriage (getting cheated on) to REALLY open my eyes - this time, for good. It feels like a kid being shown that Santa isn't real and multiply that by 100.

This. My brain is resisting "accepting the programming" because it's too hard to take.

Post: #24

(03-23-2015 04:21 AM)Biologist Wrote:  I understand what you are saying Vincent Vinturi, but who the "prize" is, is dependent on who has more value in that particular situation.

The man only becomes the prize when he reaches around age 30, and he is aiming to date women who are around the same age as him (or slightly younger). This is because, at this age:
- Women have already hit the wall or are about to, so their sexual marketplace value is decreasing rapidly.
- The women who want to have kids are desperate to find a husband to do so with.
- Men generally have more money, an established career, more life experience and better game.

The way I approach inner game is that I recognise that my value is increasing, and that in the future, I will be the prize.

I agree. At one extremes there are girls vs average guys. On the other extreme, guys who are good looking AND have game absolutely kill it with women and make it so easy, you would think that they have magic. 6-7s Girls fall head over heel for them and they dont even care.

My Ryan-Gosling lookalike wing emphasizes that the mere fact that he is talking to a girl is all the IOI he ever needs to show. He so internally believes he is the prize that he thinks his mere presence is enough reward. Just like girls think showing up is enough to justify a guy buying her 300$ dinner.


It really depends on the SMV of you and the girl in question. If you can blast your SMV at her, she will falls for you like a beta falls for a porn actress. Now of course, being able to do this is itself good game.

Since girls are getting more and more superficial and ADHD, immediate apparent values like looks and wealth and fame are becoming more and more important. Other values like knowledge, lifestyle, travels and conversation skills are great but still need to be shown before they start having an impact. I find DHV getting more and more difficult the last few times I went out, because I didnt even have time to DHV. The few bangs I have and almost every date I went on, the girl told me she thought I was cute since the first look. So either that, or my game is not good enough to bypass a girl's look threshold requirement.

Girls have an upper hand in this game because their values, looks and vaginas, are VASTLY inflated in our society.

Post: #25

(03-23-2015 01:18 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  It really depends on the SMV of you and the girl in question. If you can blast your SMV at her, she will falls for you like a beta falls for a porn actress. Now of course, being able to do this is itself good game.

Nah, SMV has nothing to do with being the prize.

What does a chick being hot and being able to fuck you do for your life?

A woman doesn't complete your dreams, she's only along for the ride.

It's you, the man, who completes her dreams, without you it's not possible for her to be fulfilled.

Women don't play the same role for us as we play for them. The role we play for them is multi-faceted and expected until death, most of what we ask them to do for us is temporary at best.

It's obvious VV has read both of Esther Vilar's books, as have I, so I recognize the message he's communicating to the rest of you guys.

But here's what's being missed.

When you're the prize, you make the rules.

Women, especially non-white women, often view white men as the prize, as do white women, because after all that's who they mostly marry and procreate with, yet despite the fact you're the prize, you're the LEAST demanding of the men out there.

It's your game because you're the one who brings everything to the table that you can offer her until the day she dies, if she's not going to get with the program, then let her find her misery with someone else, and you can preserve your happiness for someone who's more worthy.

You guys also have to get off pedestalizing chicks for how they look and how they suck and fuck. A bitch should look good. A bitch should know how to suck a dick and ride a dick, otherwise, what kind of woman is she?

If she can't look decent and she can't please a dick, then as far as I'm concerned she's not a she, she's just an it, I don't want to fuck with an it.

I mean, the game is all fucked up, now we have to give props to women for doing basic shit because so many women don't even do the fuckin' basics.