Post: #1

First before the article. WB. She is 31 has had 4 kids and didn't blow up like a blimp. Good job.

Are these borderline crazy eyes?

Quote:Heather Barwick, who has come out against gay marriage despite having a lesbian mom. Photo via Women of Grace.

A South Carolina woman’s new essay about being raised by her lesbian mom contains a surprising revelation: she opposes marriage equality.

“Gay community, I am your daughter. My mom raised me with her same-sex partner back in the ’80s and ’90s,” writes Heather Barwick, a 31-year-old mother of four, in The Federalist. “I’m writing to you because I’m letting myself out of the closet: I don’t support gay marriage. But it might not be for the reasons that you think. It’s not because you’re gay. I love you, so much. It’s because of the nature of the same-sex relationship itself.”

Barwick, who also recently shared her story with the Christian publication World — and who signed onto a letter of support to designers Dolce & Gabbana following their controversial statements regarding gay and lesbian parents — would not speak with Yahoo Parenting. She replied to an interview request with the following message: “At the moment I’m unable to do an interview or further commenting on my letter.”

In her essay, she explains that when she was 2 or 3, her mother, who already knew that she was gay, left Barwick’s father to have a relationship with a woman. “Her partner treated me as if I was her own daughter,” she writes. “Along with my mom’s partner, I also inherited her tight-knit community of gay and lesbian friends.” Her father, meanwhile, “wasn’t a great guy,” and “didn’t bother coming around anymore.”

As she grew up with her loving mom and stepmom, Barwick writes, her family taught her “how to be brave,” have “empathy,” “how to listen,” and “how to stand up for myself, even if that means I stand alone.” And for a while — into her 20s — that meant being an advocate for gay marriage. But now she’s had a change of heart.

“Same-sex marriage and parenting withholds either a mother or father from a child while telling him or her that it doesn’t matter. That it’s all the same. But it’s not,” she writes. “A lot of us, a lot of your kids, are hurting. My father’s absence created a huge hole in me, and I ached every day for a dad. I loved my mom’s partner, but another mom could never have replaced the father I lost.”

But while her argument is heartfelt, note some gay-parenting supporters, it’s also full of holes.

“There’s nothing wrong with her sharing her experience — it’s an important conversation, and one that we have, and should have, all the time,” Gabriel Blau, executive director of the Family Equality Council, tells Yahoo Parenting. “But denying a huge swath of American citizens our civil rights is not an answer.”

Blau, who is raising a 7-year-old son with his husband, adds, “I think it’s disingenuous to say you don’t support LGBT rights and that your concern is children. Supporting marriage equality does not create our families — it creates support for families that already exist.” He adds that Barwick’s pain over the absence of a father “who chose not to be in the picture” and her conclusion to not support gay marriage represent two distinct issues, and that her connection of the two is “such a non-sequitur.”

https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/daughter...92687.html

Post: #2

(03-19-2015 01:28 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  First before the article. WB. She is 31 has had 4 kids and didn't blow up like a blimp. Good job.

Are these borderline crazy eyes?

Quote:Heather Barwick, who has come out against gay marriage despite having a lesbian mom. Photo via Women of Grace.

A South Carolina woman’s new essay about being raised by her lesbian mom contains a surprising revelation: she opposes marriage equality.

“Gay community, I am your daughter. My mom raised me with her same-sex partner back in the ’80s and ’90s,” writes Heather Barwick, a 31-year-old mother of four, in The Federalist. “I’m writing to you because I’m letting myself out of the closet: I don’t support gay marriage. But it might not be for the reasons that you think. It’s not because you’re gay. I love you, so much. It’s because of the nature of the same-sex relationship itself.”

Barwick, who also recently shared her story with the Christian publication World — and who signed onto a letter of support to designers Dolce & Gabbana following their controversial statements regarding gay and lesbian parents — would not speak with Yahoo Parenting. She replied to an interview request with the following message: “At the moment I’m unable to do an interview or further commenting on my letter.”

In her essay, she explains that when she was 2 or 3, her mother, who already knew that she was gay, left Barwick’s father to have a relationship with a woman. “Her partner treated me as if I was her own daughter,” she writes. “Along with my mom’s partner, I also inherited her tight-knit community of gay and lesbian friends.” Her father, meanwhile, “wasn’t a great guy,” and “didn’t bother coming around anymore.”

As she grew up with her loving mom and stepmom, Barwick writes, her family taught her “how to be brave,” have “empathy,” “how to listen,” and “how to stand up for myself, even if that means I stand alone.” And for a while — into her 20s — that meant being an advocate for gay marriage. But now she’s had a change of heart.

“Same-sex marriage and parenting withholds either a mother or father from a child while telling him or her that it doesn’t matter. That it’s all the same. But it’s not,” she writes. “A lot of us, a lot of your kids, are hurting. My father’s absence created a huge hole in me, and I ached every day for a dad. I loved my mom’s partner, but another mom could never have replaced the father I lost.”

But while her argument is heartfelt, note some gay-parenting supporters, it’s also full of holes.

“There’s nothing wrong with her sharing her experience — it’s an important conversation, and one that we have, and should have, all the time,” Gabriel Blau, executive director of the Family Equality Council, tells Yahoo Parenting. “But denying a huge swath of American citizens our civil rights is not an answer.”

Blau, who is raising a 7-year-old son with his husband, adds, “I think it’s disingenuous to say you don’t support LGBT rights and that your concern is children. Supporting marriage equality does not create our families — it creates support for families that already exist.” He adds that Barwick’s pain over the absence of a father “who chose not to be in the picture” and her conclusion to not support gay marriage represent two distinct issues, and that her connection of the two is “such a non-sequitur.”

https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/daughter...92687.html

A well adjusted adult speaks honestly. The left will treat her like a heretic now.

Post: #3

(03-19-2015 02:33 PM)Jneg Wrote:  “There’s nothing wrong with her sharing her experience — it’s an important conversation, and one that we have, and should have, all the time,” Gabriel Blau, executive director of the Family Equality Council, tells Yahoo Parenting. “But denying a huge swath of American citizens our civil rights is not an answer.”

Gays keep shouting about their civil rights, but we all know it isn't about that, so when you disguise your argument in something reasonable when there's obviously an ulterior motive, then I have to shun your argument altogether.

The woman who wrote the letter was only speaking the truth.

Mr. Blau and his partner are raising a Black child, so they're already lost in the land of the nonsensical. You can't tell them that a little girl needs her father just as much as she needs her mother, nor can you tell them that a Black child should have Black parents. Simply because they choose to lead an alternative lifestyle, which again is totally their choice, that doesn't give them to right to inflict emotional abuse on dependent children who have no choice but to go along for the ride.

The fact that they're choosing to live in a fairy tale in which none of these biological and social realities are important, doesn't mean the rest of us have to join along in the party of willful ignorance and in the process cheer them on and make concessions that were never meant to be made nor that are in the best interests of all parties involved.

Post: #4

That Yahoo link took quite a bit out of context to paint a completely different picture of what she actually said. This can be seen by looking at how the commenters on the Yahoo article are responding. Specifically about her father and a few other points. Here is a link to the federalist


Here is the full essay:

Quote:Gay community, I am your daughter. My mom raised me with her same-sex partner back in the ’80s and ’90s. She and my dad were married for a little while. She knew she was gay before they got married, but things were different back then. That’s how I got here. It was complicated as you can imagine. She left him when I was two or three because she wanted a chance to be happy with someone she really loved: a woman.


My dad wasn’t a great guy, and after she left him he didn’t bother coming around anymore.

Do you remember that book, “Heather Has Two Mommies”? That was my life. My mom, her partner, and I lived in a cozy little house in the ‘burbs of a very liberal and open-minded area. Her partner treated me as if I was her own daughter. Along with my mom’s partner, I also inherited her tight-knit community of gay and lesbian friends. Or maybe they inherited me?


Either way, I still feel like gay people are my people. I’ve learned so much from you. You taught me how to be brave, especially when it is hard. You taught me empathy. You taught me how to listen. And how to dance. You taught me not be afraid of things that are different. And you taught me how to stand up for myself, even if that means I stand alone.


I’m writing to you because I’m letting myself out of the closet: I don’t support gay marriage. But it might not be for the reasons that you think.


Children Need a Mother and Father

It’s not because you’re gay. I love you, so much. It’s because of the nature of the same-sex relationship itself.

It’s only now, as I watch my children loving and being loved by their father each day, that I can see the beauty and wisdom in traditional marriage and parenting.

Growing up, and even into my 20s, I supported and advocated for gay marriage. It’s only with some time and distance from my childhood that I’m able to reflect on my experiences and recognize the long-term consequences that same-sex parenting had on me. And it’s only now, as I watch my children loving and being loved by their father each day, that I can see the beauty and wisdom in traditional marriage and parenting.

Same-sex marriage and parenting withholds either a mother or father from a child while telling him or her that it doesn’t matter. That it’s all the same. But it’s not. A lot of us, a lot of your kids, are hurting. My father’s absence created a huge hole in me, and I ached every day for a dad. I loved my mom’s partner, but another mom could never have replaced the father I lost.


I grew up surrounded by women who said they didn’t need or want a man. Yet, as a little girl, I so desperately wanted a daddy. It is a strange and confusing thing to walk around with this deep-down unquenchable ache for a father, for a man, in a community that says that men are unnecessary. There were times I felt so angry with my dad for not being there for me, and then times I felt angry with myself for even wanting a father to begin with. There are parts of me that still grieve over that loss today.


I’m not saying that you can’t be good parents. You can. I had one of the best. I’m also not saying that being raised by straight parents means everything will turn out okay. We know there are so many different ways that the family unit can break down and cause kids to suffer: divorce, abandonment, infidelity, abuse, death, etc. But by and large, the best and most successful family structure is one in which kids are being raised by both their mother and father.


Why Can’t Gay People’s Kids Be Honest?

Gay marriage doesn’t just redefine marriage, but also parenting. It promotes and normalizes a family structure that necessarily denies us something precious and foundational. It denies us something we need and long for, while at the same time tells us that we don’t need what we naturally crave. That we will be okay. But we’re not. We’re hurting.


If anyone can talk about hard things, it’s us.

Kids of divorced parents are allowed to say, “Hey, mom and dad, I love you, but the divorce crushed me and has been so hard. It shattered my trust and made me feel like it was my fault. It is so hard living in two different houses.” Kids of adoption are allowed to say, “Hey, adoptive parents, I love you. But this is really hard for me. I suffer because my relationship with my first parents was broken. I’m confused and I miss them even though I’ve never met them.”


But children of same-sex parents haven’t been given the same voice. It’s not just me. There are so many of us. Many of us are too scared to speak up and tell you about our hurt and pain, because for whatever reason it feels like you’re not listening. That you don’t want to hear. If we say we are hurting because we were raised by same-sex parents, we are either ignored or labeled a hater.


This isn’t about hate at all. I know you understand the pain of a label that doesn’t fit and the pain of a label that is used to malign or silence you. And I know that you really have been hated and that you really have been hurt. I was there, at the marches, when they held up signs that said, “God hates fags” and “AIDS cures homosexuality.” I cried and turned hot with anger right there in the street with you. But that’s not me. That’s not us.


I know this is a hard conversation. But we need to talk about it. If anyone can talk about hard things, it’s us. You taught me that.


Heather Barwick was raised by her mother and her mother's same-sex partner. She is a former gay-marriage advocate turned children's rights activist. She is a wife and mother of four rambunctious kids.

Post: #5

“But denying a huge swath of American citizens our civil rights is not an answer.”

First of all, you're not even 5% of the population. I'd wager that less than 5% of that wants to get married.

Secondly, homosexuals have always had the same civil rights as everybody else regarding marriage. If they wanted to start a family they could marry a member of the opposite sex just like everybody else.

It's telling that the woman was able to give her personal experience and the homosexual can only spout platitudes.

Post: #6

We need about a million more like this woman.

Post: #7

I'd also like to point out the author's malapropism of referring to "his husband". A husband can only exist with a wife. That would be like me referring to both of my arms as "right". A right arm can only be "right" if it is opposed to a "left".

I really feel sorry for this homo's kid. I have a feeling he/she will be spending a lot of time in therapy.

Post: #8

I'm still waiting for their response to the three dudes who married each other in Thailand a couple of weeks ago. What about their civil rights? Why can't they join the equality party?

Crickets chirping......

Post: #9

(03-19-2015 03:25 PM)Chevy Woonsocket Wrote:  I'd also like to point out the author's malapropism of referring to "his husband". A husband can only exist with a wife. That would be like me referring to both of my arms as "right". A right arm can only be "right" if it is opposed to a "left".

I really feel sorry for this homo's kid. I have a feeling he/she will be spending a lot of time in therapy.

I recently overheard a gay guy talk about his husband - can't figure out if the "husband" does the same thing back.

Post: #10

(03-19-2015 03:06 PM)Chevy Woonsocket Wrote:  “But denying a huge swath of American citizens our civil rights is not an answer.”

First of all, you're not even 5% of the population. I'd wager that less than 5% of that wants to get married.

Secondly, homosexuals have always had the same civil rights as everybody else regarding marriage. If they wanted to start a family they could marry a member of the opposite sex just like everybody else.

It's telling that the woman was able to give her personal experience and the homosexual can only spout platitudes.

All that nonsense about being denied rights - one does not gain any rights in a marriage, one LOSES them. These idiots have obviously no clue what happens in a modern American divorce court.

Post: #11

I'm going to cut out the fat and get right to the point.

Quote:My mom raised me with her same-sex partner back in the ’80s and ’90s. She and my dad were married for a little while. [...] She left him when I was two or three because she wanted a chance to be happy [...] and after she left him he didn’t bother coming around anymore.

[..] Growing up, and even into my 20s, [...] And it’s only now, as I watch my children loving and being loved by their father each day, that I can see the beauty and wisdom in traditional marriage and parenting.

My father’s absence created a huge hole in me, and I ached every day for a dad. [...] another mom could never have replaced the father I lost.

[...]

I grew up surrounded by women who said they didn’t need or want a man. Yet, as a little girl, I so desperately wanted a daddy. It is a strange and confusing thing to walk around with this deep-down unquenchable ache for a father, for a man, in a community that says that men are unnecessary. There were times I felt so angry with my dad for not being there for me, and then times I felt angry with myself for even wanting a father to begin with. There are parts of me that still grieve over that loss today.

Honestly, if you cut out the same-sex marriage aspect then this comes across like every other, literally, person her age, and my age, who grew up as products of divorce, single-motherhood-by-choice, parental alienation, and female empowerment.

I have heard that divorce is better for guys today, but in the 80's and 90's when it peaked it was ruthless for men. In many ways it was worse for kids.

I still remember the transition between 2nd and 5th grade. Every couple of weeks it was some kid crying about how he or she didn't get to see their dad anymore because mom has a new boyfriend.

Five years or so later and every chick I knew talked about, "how she really hated her dad for abandoning her" and then five minutes later she would be talking about how she hated her mom for kicking her dad out. A number of these girls found out that their mom had lied about receiving child support and other things.

A number told me about how their mom coached them to say mean things to their dad. They also had a number of stories of being abused by step dads, moms boyfriend of the month, and step-siblings.

Most developed drug problems (which is how they knew me in and right after HS...hehe) and other problems like cutting or bulimia.

Of course, the guys who I was friends with had a much different set of problems. Some of them are dead today from suicide and drugs. Most of the girls are single mothers. Some became strippers and god knows what happened to others.

I suppose we should thank feminists though, if it wasn't for all the divorce in the 80's, 90's, and today in the 00's I probably never would have gotten laid.

I used to have a meme that said: Feminist Single Mothers....Creating tomorrows sluts

But I can't find it and am too lazy right now to create a new one.

So, here you go.

Post: #12

(03-19-2015 03:29 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

(03-19-2015 03:06 PM)Chevy Woonsocket Wrote:  “But denying a huge swath of American citizens our civil rights is not an answer.”

First of all, you're not even 5% of the population. I'd wager that less than 5% of that wants to get married.

Secondly, homosexuals have always had the same civil rights as everybody else regarding marriage. If they wanted to start a family they could marry a member of the opposite sex just like everybody else.

It's telling that the woman was able to give her personal experience and the homosexual can only spout platitudes.

All that nonsense about being denied rights - one does not gain any rights in a marriage, one LOSES them. These idiots have obviously no clue what happens in a modern American divorce court.

I still maintain that the reason this is being pushed onto the American people is so divorce attorneys can clean up. If you thought regular divorces were messy you ain't seen nuthin' yet.

Post: #13

(03-19-2015 03:06 PM)Chevy Woonsocket Wrote:  “But denying a huge swath of American citizens our civil rights is not an answer.”

First of all, you're not even 5% of the population. I'd wager that less than 5% of that wants to get married.

Secondly, homosexuals have always had the same civil rights as everybody else regarding marriage. If they wanted to start a family they could marry a member of the opposite sex just like everybody else.

It's telling that the woman was able to give her personal experience and the homosexual can only spout platitudes.

It's 2% of the population at best and 5% only wanting to marry. So it concerns 0,1% of the population. Also almost 100% of those are fucking around merrily with orgies with or without marriage certificate. The lesbian partnerships are less promiscuous, but they are interlaced with a greater degree of psychopathic women who simply hate men.

So Dolce & Gabbana knew perfectly well when they made their comments. Gay parents should be treated highly secondary when allocated children or given parental rights. I would not necessarily give them no parental rights, because a kid raised by them is still better than being raised in a rotten group home. So if there are not normal parents around who want to adopt them, then gay parents should be given a choice. Yeah - I know - treating them like second class citizens in that regard, because essentially their parental bond is second class. It beats third class orphanage experience though.

A few other children have come out against their same sex parents, but nothing will change of course. The trans-agenda has also barely begun. I foresee a time where you can marry a 5 year old legally - wait and see.....

Also the statistics do not lie - biological parents at home give you security to avoid greater shit in life:

Post: #14

Quote:I still maintain that the reason this is being pushed onto the American people is so divorce attorneys can clean up. If you thought regular divorces were messy you ain't seen nuthin' yet.

Gays do seem to have more money than the rest of the population. Or at least gay men do. I don't know about lesbians. Part of the reason is that they don't have to spend any money or real time getting laid. Even before gay clubs and what not, all a gay dude had to do was go and hang out at the right park or public restroom to get off. Compared to the amount of money beta males spend on women, gays save up big time.

Post: #15

The "manosphere" could learn a lot about how this chick framed her criticism of a social over-correction. Note the nuance and precision. It's very difficult to completely dismiss this argument, not just because of who she is, but because of well-placed she's made it.

Post: #16

(03-19-2015 03:42 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  The "manosphere" could learn a lot about how this chick framed her criticism of a social over-correction. Note the nuance and precision. It's very difficult to completely dismiss this argument, not just because of who she is, but because of well-placed she's made it.

Yeah she did it well, but the main reason she could do it was because she was a woman and left religion out of it. If it had been a man, he would have been ignored.

It would have been better though if she were a blind black woman in a wheelchair - then the SJWs would have been unable to criticize her at all with all that privilege bonus.

Post: #17

(03-19-2015 03:42 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  The "manosphere" could learn a lot about how this chick framed her criticism of a social over-correction. Note the nuance and precision. It's very difficult to completely dismiss this argument, not just because of who she is, but because of well-placed she's made it.

Eh, if she hadn't been raised by lesbians I don't think she would get any compassion what so ever or be seen as credible in any way. As it is "the left" still loves to eat their own, no matter what group they belong to. There is a long history, at least on the far left (and speaking as someone who is fairly liberal), of engaging in circular firing squads over issues.

Post: #18

(03-19-2015 03:42 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  The "manosphere" could learn a lot about how this chick framed her criticism of a social over-correction. Note the nuance and precision. It's very difficult to completely dismiss this argument, not just because of who she is, but because of well-placed she's made it.

I noticed that too. She was quite deft as a wordsmith. I was impressed. I wish there were more voices out there like her but unfortunately, I think kids with two gay parents that share her opinion are far and few between.

Post: #19

Quote:“There’s nothing wrong with her sharing her experience — it’s an important conversation, and one that we have, and should have, all the time,” Gabriel Blau, executive director of the Family Equality Council, tells Yahoo Parenting. “But denying a huge swath of American citizens our civil rights is not an answer.”

Can someone post a link to the most recent version of our "civil rights"? These people just seem to keep adding to the list with each passing day. It's like building a model airplane and painting your initials on the side, then suing the manufacturer for not including it on the instruction manual.

Post: #20

(03-19-2015 02:33 PM)Jneg Wrote:  A well adjusted adult speaks honestly. The left will treat her like a heretic now.

I think you're treating a vague, undefined group of people you imagine as "left" like heretics now.

And neither you or anyone else really knows exactly who they are, or what a vague term like "left" means.

I agree with her statement, and I'm a full pinko soshulist.

Post: #21

My suspicions about gay parenting arose when it turned out that abuse or domestic violence was much higher among gay couples.

Man/man was at about 20% and woman/woman was more than 30%.
Both seemed high to me but they were definitely higher than heterosexual which was above 10 but below 20 (hence why I think it is too high, whatever they consider to be abuse has an overly broad definition).
Either way it is higher.

And for the record, this is hilarious to point out to feminists. Since the female/female is higher than male/male it shatters the idea that woman are more peaceful and not just physically weaker.

I'm still in favor of gays living together of course but they are not the same as a heterosexual couple, clearly.

First result from google: http://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/s...uples.html

Post: #22

(03-19-2015 06:30 PM)GeroMeroHero Wrote:  My suspicions about gay parenting arose when it turned out that abuse or domestic violence was much higher among gay couples.

Man/man was at about 20% and woman/woman was more than 30%.
Both seemed high to me but they were definitely higher than heterosexual which was above 10 but below 20 (hence why I think it is too high, whatever they consider to be abuse has an overly broad definition).
Either way it is higher.

And for the record, this is hilarious to point out to feminists. Since the female/female is higher than male/male it shatters the idea that woman are more peaceful and not just physically weaker.

I'm still in favor of gays living together of course but they are not the same as a heterosexual couple, clearly.

First result from google: http://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/s...uples.html

Excellent point. In my experience lesbians tend to be EXTREMELY jealous of each other, and even moreso when a man is interested in one of them.

Homosexual men that I've known also tend to take a very lax attitude towards promiscuity. Hell, they have "circuit parties" which are glorified orgies where the dudes take enough methamphetamine to fornicate for days on end.

Post: #23

Its funny how all of a sudden they start bringing up the nature of Logic, her "non sequiturs", poking holes in her argument, and how to maintain a coherent argument when someone coming from the *other* side speaking from emotion.


I guess its more ironic than anything.

Post: #24

This woman is part of the start of the backlash against liberalism. Children that survive the cultural wasteland of the present day west and manage to have families of their own are going to be almost universally conservative. They are like the 2% bacteria that do not get killed by the anti-bacterial soap that live on and go to reproduce a new strain. The next group of family minded Americans will probably resemble the 16th century more than the 21st.

Post: #25

I smell attention-whoring in this, of the Jenny Erikson "Christian conservative" type.

There's a famous kids' book, Heather Has Two Mommies.



Was her family the model, or is it just that "Heather" was a popular middle class name in the USA in the 70s and 80s. Like the movie "Heathers."

Since this Heather ended up as a heterosexual mom and apparently a Christian conservative, she's more of an example on the absence of deviant effects or other "Cultural Marxist" indoctrination of children in gay parent families.

As Troll King pointed out, the absence of a father is much more of a general effect of divorce culture than gay marriage. Most of what she says about gay marriage is just her saying it, not borne out with statistics or even the facts of her case.

Gay marriage is a social experiment with its long term effects unknown and possibly deleterious, but to me it's a freedom of contract issue. Marriage in its relationship to the government is just another contract with obligations and benefits to be enforced; religions can define it any way they want. Freedom is always an experiment.