(03-03-2015 08:31 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  I agree that we should not let the government gradually roll over us, but then there's something my professor told me that still really sticks with me till this day:

IF the government really want to come down on you, do you really think your pistol/assault rifle could outmatch heavy armor tanks, rocket launchers, grenade launcher, attack helicopter and all of that shit?

I hope your professor doesn't teach history, because 1964-1972 would seem to suggest 'tanks and rocket launchers' are no guarantee of victory.

Suggest that he research that time period, as there are valuable lessons to be learned.

(03-03-2015 08:31 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  I agree that we should not let the government gradually roll over us, but then there's something my professor told me that still really sticks with me till this day:

IF the government really want to come down on you, do you really think your pistol/assault rifle could outmatch heavy armor tanks, rocket launchers, grenade launcher, attack helicopter and all of that shit?

How much of the population is armed? How much of those who are armed has the training to actually use it against professional soldiers?

Look at it guys, it's never changed since the middle ages. The peasants are not allowed to buy warhorses or swords or armors. The nobility own all the heavy hitting stuff. We didn't come a long way.

Over half of all American males own at least one firearm and the ratio of firearms to people stored in private households is roughly 1:1. The famous quote supposedly made by a Japanese admiral about a rifle being behind every blade of grass is apt to describe the situation.

With regard to heavy tanks, rocket launchers, attack helicopters, aircraft carriers, and the like, those don't necessarily determine the outcome of a revolution. The fact of the matter is that to quell an uprising on home soil, you need boots on the ground to go door to door and stand on corners like an occupation force. The last thing you'd want to do is have bombing runs by jets that would kill 100 innocent people to every 1 revolutionary. This isn't Iraq we're talking about here so every major offensive a government would launch would have incredible amounts of collateral damage among its own constituency, further radicalizing that same constituency against it. There are at least 10X more military veterans than active military and the vast majority of them own firearms. This isn't to add the number of national guardsmen and local police across the country would who might not take kindly to bombs going off or people disappearing in their backyards. This is exactly why a revolution is so hard to stop once it starts; The government is essentially fighting its own people and every victory through aggression merely broadens and intensifies the opposition.

Last but not least, the USA isn't a nation of peasants and never has been. If there's anything that unifies the American people, no matter their race, creed, political affiliation, or regional identity, it's their hate for the federal government(although for varied reasons). Everyone I know, Democrats, Independents, and Republicans, thinks that something's going to eventually snap. We've already seen political proto-rebellions in the form of OWS and the Tea Party. I'm not going to say that we're going to have a violent revolution anytime soon but there's definitely a whole hell of a lot of support for it from both sides of the aisle when engaged in private. Even SWPL strongholds would protest against martial law or infringements of their basic liberties in their hometowns and cities.

(03-03-2015 08:31 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  I agree that we should not let the government gradually roll over us, but then there's something my professor told me that still really sticks with me till this day:

IF the government really want to come down on you, do you really think your pistol/assault rifle could outmatch heavy armor tanks, rocket launchers, grenade launcher, attack helicopter and all of that shit?

How much of the population is armed? How much of those who are armed has the training to actually use it against professional soldiers?

Look at it guys, it's never changed since the middle ages. The peasants are not allowed to buy warhorses or swords or armors. The nobility own all the heavy hitting stuff. We didn't come a long way.

Underequipped Vietnamese overcame the French, US, and Chinese. They had the home court advantage, but much poorer weapons and training.

These "government troops fighting the people" scenarios always sound horrifying until you remember that those doing the killing on behalf of politicians are citizens themselves; people with family and friends on the other side.

In my opinion you would never find the troops of a Western nation slaughtering their own people; they might follow orders for a day or two but not much longer.

(03-03-2015 08:55 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 08:04 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 07:39 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 07:26 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 05:50 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  I was going to get an M1A before I lucked into an FAL. Only problem I had with it is that my steel targets couldn't take repeated hits of .308, so I had to upgrade to 1/2" thick AR500 steel.

FAL's are nice dude !

Hehe yeah that's the problem, gotta get better targets, ever use those steel jacks on the ground ? Love those things also !

I haven't, no. My setup is a portable aluminum frame that came with the first steel target I bought. It's got heavy duty steel chains attached to it that hold the target up. The new target is rock solid. I've hit it with everything from .22LR up to 8MM Mauser as well as plenty of .223 and 5.45 and there is barely any cratering. You have to be careful not to put holes in the frame, though.

It's funny, for Christmas my buddy filed all the jagged edges down, cleared off the jacket splatter and "pimped" the frame with bright gold spray-paint. It looks ridiculous. I'll try to get a picture of it if I go down there this weekend.

No shit ? That's awesome, that's what always pissed me off is cratering.

Check out the steel jacks, they're great or hand gun practice or at most 5.56.

Yeah I wouldn't want to do that to the frame either !

Is this what you're talking about?

Yessir those are it, come in different thicknesses also !

US citizens would beat the dogshit out of the government if it came to it. 300 million people with 300 million weapons fighting guerilla warfare in the cities and the countryside. Not to mention all or the tanks and heavy weaponry defectors from the military would bring with them.

This isn't Cambodia, would we slaughter them. The difficult part would be getting people to the point of taking up arms, as opposed to just taking bullshit because as mentioned, we are so comfortable in our daily lives.

All the talk about hypothetical revolution stuff is pointless mental masturbation. It won't happen.

There have been plenty of events and government actions in recent years that would've sparked violent insurrection if America was still populated by men half as tough and wild as our 18th Century revolutionary forefathers. What do you think their reaction would've been to the revelation that the NSA was spying on all of us and recording our communications?

But we aren't a nation full of those men and likely never will be again. Such men have to be born in adverse conditions and overcome them, conditions the likes of which really don't exist in modern America. They have to be self-made men who are distrustful of governmental power. In an age where that's considered a bad thing, unless you're simply distrustful of the police for popular SJW reasons, and government worship is at an all time high, you're not going to find many men like that.

By the way, Cody Wilson and the rebels at Defense Distributed have come up with an affordable CNC mill to finish AR receivers. Federal law states that a receiver, which is the core of a rifle that usually accepts the magazine and where all the important operations go on, is a firearm. But if it is only 80% finished it is not considered a firearm. In the past you could buy 80% finished receivers and machine them yourself, but only if you knew how and had access to the proper specs and machinery.

Now you can do it easily, by simply sticking it in this machine, downloading the software, and letting it do the work for you. You then have a legal, unregistered firearm. From there all you have to do is buy the upper, some parts, and put it together.

I love how he needles the control freaks in our government.

If the weapon you create is fully automatic, would it still be legal? Regardless, this is pretty damn cool.

(03-04-2015 04:14 PM)Repo Wrote:  If the weapon you create is fully automatic, would it still be legal? Regardless, this is pretty damn cool.

No, it wouldn't be.

Damn. Well thanks.

(03-04-2015 04:18 PM)Repo Wrote:  Damn. Well thanks.

But you could always buy a SlideFire stock, which is legal.





Federal law defines automatic weapons as any weapon that fires more than one bullet per trigger pull. Civilian ownership of automatic weapons manufactured after 1986 is a federal felony. So right now American civvies can only buy automatic weapons manufactured before 1986 if their state allows it. Needless to say, they're expensive as fuck and the legal hoops you have to jump through are annoyingly arduous. Owning Class III weapons is largely a rich man's game because of the cost.

Accessories like the SlideFire, however, allow you to pull the trigger really fast and are legal as long as they contain no springs to assist the shooter.

Automatic fire is overrated, though. It's fun but it's costly because ammo ain't cheap. Down here you can go to local ranges and rent some full-auto guns.

We actually have a lot of British tourists who come here on vacation and hit up the gun ranges and rent tommy guns.

(03-03-2015 09:39 PM)Switch Wrote:  Cuba was taken by Castro with an army that often numbered less than 200 men. The USA is far larger and more powerful, but if there ever was a need for US citizens to take back their government, it wouldn't be impossible. Hopefully democracy kicks in before a situation occurs where that seems necessary, however.

We have democracy-- the idiots keep electing millionaires who then get bribed by billionaires, and above all, don't pass campaign finance reform which is the only thing that will stop the vote buying.