Post: #26

I've had a recurring injury for the past few years in my lower left back. Its been so bad that I've once gotten out of bed in the morning and immediately felt a sharp stab right in that area ,almost like a lightening bolt to put it figuratively. It left me in bed for half the day and took me a few days to recover. That was the first time it was ever that bad for me.

Fast forward to today, I'm doing squats in the gym and I feel it again in the usual spot. I'm only 23, this shit is ridiculous having back problems like an old man. So I finally decided to go to a chiropractor for the first time ever.

The chiropractor says my sacrum curves to the left and that the Sacroiliac joint on my right side is hard, while the left side is soft.

This means my left side has proper motion, while the right side is stiff, meaning the left side flexes more that it should under weight and is overcompensating for my right side that won't flex under heavy weight.

This results in the muscles or tendons on left side getting sprained when under heavy stress. The doc says its fixable but will take several sessions to get everything properly lined up

After a few years of dealing with this shit I'm so happy to finally figure out what is going on. I'm glad it has nothing to do with my spinal cord or nerves. Also, after the alignment I felt my posture improve significantly.

I'm definitely a fan of chiropractic medicine now.

Post: #27

Been having a bit of back pain myself lately, so I've laid off the gym for a few days. Going back tonight, but I'll eliminate the dead lifts for while and scale back the Romanian dead lifts. Kinda sucks, because dead lifts are one of the few routines I do well. Gives me a jolt to watch all the young bucks staring at the old man doing his 4 X 4's.

Post: #28

Thanks for the information everyone. Took a break off RVF and just got back here now.

I can't remember the weight I did but I had a personal trainer previously and I know my form was pretty spot on - I imagine the problem was that I'm a skinny guy and was going for the "lift more weight less reps" mentality.

It's been a few months and my back got better then worse and is now bad again. I'm icing it as we speak. I went for some massage therapy and physiotherapy but it hasn't been great. I'll try to rest it again for the next week or two and if it's still bad I'll see a chiropractor.

Post: #29

(11-17-2014 07:10 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  Get it checked out by a doctor, get an MRI if necessary. STAY AWAY FROM LIFTING until you do this. I injured my back lifting in 2009. I didn't listen to my body and it only continued to get worse over several years until I had to have back surgery about a year ago when I literally couldn't even walk without opiate pain killers. I still have some residual pain that will likely last the rest of my life but I'm functional.

And my herniated disc caused nerve damage and my right foot feels perpetually numb and tingly like it's half asleep. That will most likely remain the rest of my life. Take care of your back man, once you fuck it up, it'll never be the same again.

Hey Speakeasy can you elaborate a bit? How did the injury occur, what lifts were you doing? Was it a debilitating a pain with a sudden onset or gradual worsening?

I also suffer from lower back pain for over 2 years now, however I still lift. I have given up on the idea of squatting and deadlifting. I do Bulgarian Split Squats for my leg routine that puts no pressure on my spine.

Post: #30

It seems form is absolutely imperative for this lift. Whenever I notice some lower back stiffness when lifting, I step back to figure out its source. With the deadlift I've been working on hamstring tightness for months and won't put weights on the bar until my form is perfect i.e. no rounding in the lower back. I'm not sure about the aesthetic benefits, but I definitely notice the extra core strength and posture improvement. Guys should be very sensitive about any tweaks and twinges because it's not to be expected if you're lifting on the regular.

Post: #31

I'll say this: If you are deadlifting with a rounded back then you are not getting the benefit of actually doing the movement. You are using too heavy of a weight and/or using improper technique.

Potential injury aside, deadlift is one of the most "ego-lift" susceptible movements there is, right alongside arm curls. If you aren't keeping your back straight and using your legs, glutes, and hips to pull up and lock out the weight then you are missing the whole purpose of the lift. Do you know why your back gets strong from doing the deadlift? It's from holding the weight. Not snaking it up with your spinal erectors.

Post: #32

When it comes to deadlifting, there are those who have injured their back and those who will injure their back in the future. When you are holding that much weight all it takes is one rep to injure yourself even if your form is perfect the rest of the time.

If you absolutely need to deadlift I'd recommend going no lower than 7 reps per set and always deadlifting as your first exercise. Trap bar deadlifts are a safer alternative. It's cool to throw around heavy ass weight but you really have to ask yourself if you can deal with living with a fucked up back for decades. Minor back injuries are pretty bad but I can't imagine how debilitating a serious back issue can be. I barbell deadlifted for a long time but I'm giving them up now. Just not worth the risk of injury unless this is part of what you do for a living (sports, bodybuilding, powerlifting, etc).

I have had a couple minor injuries over the years. One was a relatively light deadlift set at the end of my workout where I kind of hyperextended at the top. That was a careless avoidable one. Another time I couldn't pinpoint the exact moment of injury but I think it may have been a minor compression fracture in the lumbar area. I'm guessing it was from wear and tear over the years. Took over a month before it felt normal again.

Post: #33

(02-27-2018 07:47 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  I'll say this: If you are deadlifting with a rounded back then you are not getting the benefit of actually doing the movement. You are using too heavy of a weight and/or using improper technique.

Potential injury aside, deadlift is one of the most "ego-lift" susceptible movements there is, right alongside arm curls. If you aren't keeping your back straight and using your legs, glutes, and hips to pull up and lock out the weight then you are missing the whole purpose of the lift. Do you know why your back gets strong from doing the deadlift? It's from holding the weight. Not snaking it up with your spinal erectors.

Respectfully, you can still get a very serious back injury even if your form is perfect over 95% of the time. I do agree ego lifting can be a problem that can lead to injuries. Things like fatigue and lack of sleep can be distractions that contribute to increasing the risk of injury. The lumbar spine isn't built to handle the repetitive shearing force from pulling a heavy weight off the floor from directly in front of you. It's an unnatural position to be pulling from. The trap bar deadlift puts you in an anatomically superior position to lift heavy weight off the floor while de-loading the lumbar spine to a degree. That is basically all I do now besides occasional rack pulls for any type of deadlift or variations. And this coming from someone who barbell deadlifted for a long time. Sure I might not get the same degree of back development but if I am a recreational lifter who cares? If anyone is that obsessed with getting the most back development possible they would be on gear. And then your exercise selection doesn't matter nearly as much. Just pure volume in the gym and eating.

Post: #34

When I first got into lifting weights, it was the 80's and Arnie, Sly, Lundgren, Van-Damme were ruling the cinemas and video stores, and everyone wanted big arms, shoulders and chests. It was all about 'Show instead of Go'. The opposite of today's 'functional' fitness.

I would buy Muscle & Fitness, Flex and Musclemag and see what I could learn from the routines of the 'stars'. It didn't really sink in at the time that literally everyone in these mags were taking enough steroids to kill a horse! I hardly ever saw mention of Deadlifts. When I did, it was always in a negative light; that they made you strong yes (nobody disputed that), but from a bodybuilding perspective, it didn't do much to grow muscle and that there were better alternatives. It was always well-respected, but just seen as more of a powerlifting thing.

I remain stuck in my ways even today. Since DL's became cool again, I've tried them and found out for myself that even though they make you strong as fuck, they don't make you 'look' particularly strong. Whereas, at least with the Bench Press, you quickly develop big shoulders, chest and arms and at least look like you lift weights!

I've seen some people who don't even look like they lift, hoist impressive numbers on the DL. But they don't look like they lift! It's always puzzled me, as I'm of the opinion that if you are spending time in the gym, you should have visible results at the end of it. The flip-side of that , is that if you just want to be strong, then I accept that you could do far worse than just concentrate on this one exercise. But I've always been happy with rows and pullups for my back (and forearms). Heavy deadlifts require a massive time investment for me (long waits between sets) and I just prefer the bodybuilding route for appearance sakes.

Also, and to come back to the point; the few times I've done them I've enjoyed them, but one time they did fuck my back up and I've been doubly wary of them ever since. Pull-ups and Rows have never given me an issue.

Post: #35

(03-12-2018 02:28 AM)Razor Beast Wrote:  Respectfully, you can still get a very serious back injury even if your form is perfect over 95% of the time. I do agree ego lifting can be a problem that can lead to injuries. Things like fatigue and lack of sleep can be distractions that contribute to increasing the risk of injury. The lumbar spine isn't built to handle the repetitive shearing force from pulling a heavy weight off the floor from directly in front of you. It's an unnatural position to be pulling from. The trap bar deadlift puts you in an anatomically superior position to lift heavy weight off the floor while de-loading the lumbar spine to a degree. That is basically all I do now besides occasional rack pulls for any type of deadlift or variations. And this coming from someone who barbell deadlifted for a long time. Sure I might not get the same degree of back development but if I am a recreational lifter who cares? If anyone is that obsessed with getting the most back development possible they would be on gear. And then your exercise selection doesn't matter nearly as much. Just pure volume in the gym and eating.

I agree that barbell deadlift is not the best movement for back "development" which I assume you mean building mass. You're better off with rows, pulldowns, and heavy rack pulls for growing size.

That said, I don't agree with you on spinal damage from deadlifts as your bones aren't what gives when you get hurt from pulling - it's your muscles. Quoting myself here:

(02-27-2018 08:14 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  



Second thing I want to say is that contrary to popular believe, he is not on his way to "snap city." People all to often relate poor deadlift form to potential injury with spinal discs, but this is very unlikely as you will pull your spinal erector muscles way before you do any skeletal damage picking up weight off the floor. You are far far more likely to fuck your spine up squatting than you are deadlifting as compacting your spine with weight straddled directly on top of it is much more traumatic to your bones than using your body as a lever. All the muscles on your back, most specifically your erectors, are there to support and protect your spine. When doing a movement like the deadlift, these muscles will fail you before you bones fail you; this is partially their function. That said, pulling your back muscles sucks, and tearing them sucks even more.

Lifting heavy ass weights you are always putting yourself at risk for some kind of injury. Even if it's not serious, just tweaking something is very easy. That said, I do not believe deadlift is a dangerous lift at all and is only injury-prone if done irresponsibly.

Post: #36

Back Pain and Back Strength

Quote:Mark Rippetoe reads his article Back Pain and Back Strength in which he argues for the use of barbell lifts in fixing back pain.

Post: #37

A lot of deadlift injuries are caused by tight muscle groups such as the hamstrings or hip flexors. You can do the lift with good form and still run into issues if you have tension where there should not be. These kinds of things are very common with people who sit or drive a lot.

In my experience the rack pull is a superior lift for those who have these mobility issues but still want to do a floor oriented pull. It tends to result in fewer injuries because the lower back starts in a less compromised position.

Post: #38

^cosigned

I tweaked my back twice a couple years ago from deadlifting: once was heavy weight with poor form pulling my lower back muscles, and the other time was submaximal with no warmup and my tight posterior chain was slacking in the lift (I sit at a desk a lot and drive a lot for work so need adequate warmup bermfor every DL and squat workout to loosen up my hams, hips, and glutes)