Post: #1

So, I've always found it easy to be on 'friend' terms with girls. Historically, it's been a lot harder for me to be in the 'romantic interest' zone. One of the lessons I've learned over the last few years- and the PUA stuff has been incredibly valuable to me, so I really appreciate you all- is that it almost never pays to try and become friends with a girl and later try to ask her out. So I've gotten better at trying to make clear my intentions from the beginning, ask girls out on unambiguous dates, compliment their appearances, and generally try to communicate my romantic interest.

Sometimes, however, I *can't* convey romantic interest early on, because when I first meet a girl she's in a relationship. So the challenge is, when she later breaks up and is single, how do I transition from being on 'friend' terms to conveying that I'm interested and asking her out? This is in some ways more of a challenge for me than meeting someone at a bar or something, getting their number, and then asking them out.

The actual situation I'm thinking of right now: about a year ago I met a girl who worked in the greenhouse where I do my research. She later quit her job and is working somewhere else, so there's no 'don't date where you work' awkwardness. I friended her on FB about a month or two after meeting, and we had a flurry of messaging back and forth a bunch- at some point she gave me her number because we had talked about hanging out (with other friends) over the weekend. Just on friend terms though, because she had a boyfriend at the time. I saw her around fairly frequently because she's a student here and involved with the horticulture club- they meet in the greenhouse where I work so I occasionally go to events. We've chatted periodically since then, and have a few mutual friends in common.

About a month ago she broke up with her boyfriend (on FB). I've hesitated to message or ask her out, because I want to think about the best strategy to improve my chances. I saw her in the building and said hello about a week ago, and we've exchanged a bit more FB chatter, she's occasionally 'liked' things I post, and so forth. This girl is *amazingly* cute, looks kind of like a cheerleader. She's 19 but I think likes somewhat older guys (her last boyfriend was mid-20s) so I figure I could at least give it a chance.

What do you guys recommend I do?

Post: #2

Too much investment.

You have her number text her to join you out for a drink if you know she drinks. If you know she doesn't drink go out and do something fun and somewhat active. Dancing never hurts.

If she's attracted enough she'll say yes or offer an alternative.

If not you've known her long enough she's already put you in the will or will not fuck bin.

The problem guys like you have is you aren't willing to let it sink in that attraction with girls is completely front loaded. Within a half hour of spending time with you (even in a group context) they know if they want to fuck you or not. This is why vibe, clothing, and first impressions are important.

Post: #3

(11-09-2014 01:57 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  Too much investment.

You have her number text her to join you out for a drink if you know she drinks. If you know she doesn't drink go out and do something fun and somewhat active. Dancing never hurts.

If she's attracted enough she'll say yes or offer an alternative.

If not you've known her long enough she's already put you in the will or will not fuck bin.

The problem guys like you have is you aren't willing to let it sink in that attraction with girls is completely front loaded. Within a half hour of spending time with you (even in a group context) they know if they want to fuck you or not. This is why vibe, clothing, and first impressions are important.

Oh, I entirely agree!

The problem is I don't KNOW if she's attracted to me or not, because when we first met she had a boyfriend.

But I generally agree with you- female attraction isn't ENTIRELY front loaded, but it is MOSTLY front loaded. Which is why it's a waste of time trying to get women to be attracted to you- usually they're either attracted or not.

I definitely agree with you re: clothing and first impressions, which is why I've started trying to dress more snazzy ever when going to work, to help with day game.[/i]

Post: #4

Just ask her out already.

It's not like she's your real friend anyway.

WIA

Post: #5

Recently, I found out a hot girl I used to work with had gotten out of her long-term relationship. I sent her a FB message because she had changed her profile pic, and just said "Hot pic, NAME. What's new with you?"

It played out like this:

Her: Thanks!!! ) Well my bf and I broke up a while ago. What's new with you?
Me: Whoa...that is interesting
Me: Nothing, just back in the US and getting a new business started
Her: Yeah!! Why so interesting? LOL
Me: Well personally I always like it when hot girls are single
Her: Haha well damn that's a good answer!
Her: We should hang out...

___________________

Maybe try something like that man. Hopefully you have had no interactions with her since and she doesn't know that you know she is single. I was flirty with this girl in the work setting, like I am with every attractive girl, but there was no indication of interest prior when she was with somebody (seems like it kind of matches your situation)

Whatever you do, do something man. Ask her out, tell her you just broke up and are looking for some fun, anything. Don't let this be a missed opportunity.

Post: #6

Clothing does not make the Master PUA - though it helps.

The by far bigger 98% of the problem is your admission of Friendzone Game. A man ALWAYS conveys his interest - even if it is a co-worker or a taken girl (taken not by a friend of yours), then most guys at least flirt and make sexual comments from time to time.

If you never do this, then she will likely not see you as a sexual option. My recommendation is to learn Game 101 ASAP - Roosh's works, Rollo Tomassi, Heartiste early years and even KrauserPUA's books - though advanced they will show you how Alpha/Sigma Males roll. You don't have to be it 100% - just knowing about it helps.

If you can do all of this fast, then you can contact her afterwards, but the problem with all of this is that she likely put you mentally in a certain slot - and it will be probably the Beta Nice Guy or worse kind of place. Changing a girl's perception of you is one hell of an undertaking - can be done, but takes time and experience.

If you want to go forward, then be as bold and as masculine as possible - ask her out. Maybe you are lucky and you are very attractive to her physically. If it does not work out as is likely - go learn Game 101 - change your ways, unleash the Alpha within, bang 10 chicks via your new Game and meet her again. You will be a new man - even if you have fucked her best friend - or especially because of it - she will be suddenly into you. That is how the way out of the friendzone is done.

The wrong way:

   

Post: #7

(11-09-2014 02:16 PM)texas Wrote:  Recently, I found out a hot girl I used to work with had gotten out of her long-term relationship. I sent her a FB message because she had changed her profile pic, and just said "Hot pic, NAME. What's new with you?"

It played out like this:

Her: Thanks!!! ) Well my bf and I broke up a while ago. What's new with you?
Me: Whoa...that is interesting
Me: Nothing, just back in the US and getting a new business started
Her: Yeah!! Why so interesting? LOL
Me: Well personally I always like it when hot girls are single
Her: Haha well damn that's a good answer!
Her: We should hang out...

___________________

Maybe try something like that man. Hopefully you have had no interactions with her since and she doesn't know that you know she is single. I was flirty with this girl in the work setting, like I am with every attractive girl, but there was no indication of interest prior when she was with somebody (seems like it kind of matches your situation)

Whatever you do, do something man. Ask her out, tell her you just broke up and are looking for some fun, anything. Don't let this be a missed opportunity.

That's good advice! We're chatting over FB right now actually, she just mentioned her social life is lame and had a boring weekend. I suppose I could ask about her boyfriend, e.g. "how's your rapper boyfriend doing these days?" and hopefully she'll mention she is single which gives me an opening.

Post: #8

(11-09-2014 02:21 PM)Hector_St_Clare Wrote:  That's good advice! We're chatting over FB right now actually, she just mentioned her social life is lame and had a boring weekend. I suppose I could ask about her boyfriend, e.g. "how's your rapper boyfriend doing these days?" and hopefully she'll mention she is single which gives me an opening.

Too harsh.

Pay no attention to the BF, just ask her out, now.

WIA

Post: #9

No more FB chat, you're dropping a hammer on your balls without even knowing it.

You know my average number of texts or online messages I exhange before I bang them?

Maybe 4-5 on average many time less even if that spans 2 dates to get the bang.

You can't put your penis in a vagina unless it is right in front of you!

Post: #10

(11-09-2014 02:43 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

No more FB chat, you're dropping a hammer on your balls without even knowing it.

You know my average number of texts or online messages I exhange before I bang them?

Maybe 4-5 on average many time less even if that spans 2 dates to get the bang.

You can't put your penis in a vagina unless it is right in front of you!

yes, that's always been my problem, I'm getting better though!

I'll take your advice and ask her out sometime today.

Post: #11

Let us know how you go.

Post: #12

(11-09-2014 02:16 PM)texas Wrote:  Recently, I found out a hot girl I used to work with had gotten out of her long-term relationship. I sent her a FB message because she had changed her profile pic, and just said "Hot pic, NAME. What's new with you?"

It played out like this:

Her: Thanks!!! ) Well my bf and I broke up a while ago. What's new with you?
Me: Whoa...that is interesting
Me: Nothing, just back in the US and getting a new business started
Her: Yeah!! Why so interesting? LOL
Me: Well personally I always like it when hot girls are single
Her: Haha well damn that's a good answer!
Her: We should hang out...

___________________

Maybe try something like that man. Hopefully you have had no interactions with her since and she doesn't know that you know she is single. I was flirty with this girl in the work setting, like I am with every attractive girl, but there was no indication of interest prior when she was with somebody (seems like it kind of matches your situation)

Whatever you do, do something man. Ask her out, tell her you just broke up and are looking for some fun, anything. Don't let this be a missed opportunity.

this is good, pursue the girl and play stupid about her being out of a relationship. If she brings it up you know she is giving you a green light, if she doesn't just pursue anyway.

Post: #13

(11-09-2014 02:43 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  You can't put your penis in a vagina unless it is right in front of you!

To the OP: Pursue pursue pursue

Travesty444: I had to add that to my signature. So many guys miss that emphasis.

Post: #14

Rule #4 of the Friendzone: The Friendzone knows no qualifiers.

It doesn't care why you're in the friendzone.

If you just "knew her" when she was in relationship, that'd be one thing.

"...when I first meet a girl she's in a relationship..." - potential lover
"...how do I transition from being on 'friend' terms to..." - friendzone

You don't transition her.

There are girls around my social circle who I've banged after "knowing" them a little. So I guess it depends on your definition of "friend". I wouldn't call it transitioning though. I'd say we just got drunk and fucked one night...ya know, a couple people around the same social circle.

Post: #15

(11-10-2014 05:28 PM)heavy Wrote:  Rule #4 of the Friendzone: The Friendzone knows no qualifiers.

It doesn't care why you're in the friendzone.

If you just "knew her" when she was in relationship, that'd be one thing.

"...when I first meet a girl she's in a relationship..." - potential lover
"...how do I transition from being on 'friend' terms to..." - friendzone

You don't transition her.

There are girls around my social circle who I've banged after "knowing" them a little. So I guess it depends on your definition of "friend". I wouldn't call it transitioning though. I'd say we just got drunk and fucked one night...ya know, a couple people around the same social circle.

That's a classical description of what I was talking about - knowing a girl, but also being aware of a sexual undertone. You never were in a friendzone with those girls - sometimes it is just certain words, some sexually spike jokes, an intense glance etc. - if it's not the girlfriend of your friend it's just some innocent fun. Though fun that can quickly escalate as soon as she is drunk and with you or her LTR is gone. There is no "transition" - just fluid move to being a lover following on the vibe you put out before.

Post: #16

(11-10-2014 05:38 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

(11-10-2014 05:28 PM)heavy Wrote:  Rule #4 of the Friendzone: The Friendzone knows no qualifiers.

It doesn't care why you're in the friendzone.

If you just "knew her" when she was in relationship, that'd be one thing.

"...when I first meet a girl she's in a relationship..." - potential lover
"...how do I transition from being on 'friend' terms to..." - friendzone

You don't transition her.

There are girls around my social circle who I've banged after "knowing" them a little. So I guess it depends on your definition of "friend". I wouldn't call it transitioning though. I'd say we just got drunk and fucked one night...ya know, a couple people around the same social circle.

That's a classical description of what I was talking about - knowing a girl, but also being aware of a sexual undertone. You never were in a friendzone with those girls - sometimes it is just certain words, some sexually spike jokes, an intense glance etc. - if it's not the girlfriend of your friend it's just some innocent fun. Though fun that can quickly escalate as soon as she is drunk and with you or her LTR is gone. There is no "transition" - just fluid move to being a lover following on the vibe you put out before.

Yeah I think so too. Even if the girl has a boyfriend, there should still be a sexual vibe if you're into her. The girl then knows that you're not "just a friend", but more like a potential future sex buddy / boyfriends etc. Being friends and then transitioning out of it is hard in my opinion if you didn't maintain a sexual vibe in the first place.

Post: #17

"I'll take your advice and ask her out sometime today." Did you do it

Post: #18

kino (even before she was single)

Post: #19

(11-11-2014 03:05 AM)L M McCoy Wrote:  "I'll take your advice and ask her out sometime today." Did you do it

Haha thank you for asking! On this front, nothing to report yet. I said I was a recovering p*ssy, didn't I? I've seen her a bunch of times since then, complimented her outfits, etc., she looks great as ever. She's been hanging out a bunch with the ex-boyfriend she just broke up with six weeks ago- I just got to meet him the other day and he friended me on FB. I'm hoping they don't get back together before I can ask her out- which I REALLY need to do, like now.

On another front though, I'm supposed to meet up for coffee or lunch or something with the cute 18-year old checkout girl from the grocery store that I like. I got her number a few weeks ago and we chat whenever I'm at her store, yesterday I was joking about our conversation being Not Safe For Work (we were talking about drug/alcohol experiences), and she suggested meeting up for coffee when she's off work. It's not a date since it's during the day time, but I hope to take advantage of the opportunity to ask her on a real date. Let you know how it goes.

Post: #20

^ Jesus Christ.

Who cares if you meet her in the day time? It's a date. Touch her, make her laugh, deep eye contact when you can. Go for a kiss at some point.

Your dating mentality is about the same as saying:

"Hey let's play some basketball guys! I'll play in a wheelchair though because that's when I'm comfortable! Hey before we start playing... have any tips to make me better?"

Post: #21

(11-09-2014 01:47 PM)Hector_St_Clare Wrote:  Sometimes, however, I *can't* convey romantic interest early on, because when I first meet a girl she's in a relationship.

You CAN convey romantic interest to a taken/unavailable girl no problemo. All it takes is to do it subtly and discreetly enough for her to enjoy that attention and never ever try to date her in a classic romantic way [no courting]. That's how I personally do it. If I like a girl I express my interest even in high risk situations like work or social circle etc. I just never do it in a "I really like you" romantic way. I simply flirt and give her more ATTENTION than others. It's positive and negative attention. For example I might say I love her haircut that day and then I tell her I would never marry her, ever. On verbal level it's mixed signals so it might sound like I'm just messing with her for fun [so people don't freak out that I hit on a taken girl] but it spikes emotions well and most importantly just by the fact that I mess with HER it means I pay more attention to her. That's interest.

So in my opinion it's best to convey your interest right away. You make good impression cause every girls like to draw men's attention so you are fun cool and 'real' to her. And when she becomes single [not that you should wait] she knows who to call first.

The real challenge is how to convey interest in a way that is fun and not serious so that nobody can judge you or her that you both flirt with each other. That's the fucking key here. Basically, lots of mixed signals [push/pull], lots of misinterpretations, lots of takeaways, blaming her for turning you on, using other people to mock her in playful way, complimenting her on something she does [not on physical traits], some real talk in between all of this gamey stuff.

The whole point is to quickly let her see that you're cool non needy guy who she can have fun with if she allow herself to. The quicker you convey it the better for you.

If she doesn't see you that way now then you have to start doing all of this what I described now. You have to start to game her from ground zero. That's why it's never good idea to hold back. Whether it's situation like this or social circle or random girl met via cold approach. If you like some girl then fucking go! go! go! Flirt shamelessly but always be aware how you come across to her and others in a given situation.

Good luck

Post: #22

(11-11-2014 03:05 AM)L M McCoy Wrote:  "I'll take your advice and ask her out sometime today." Did you do it

Alas, my waiting killed me. I ended up being too much of a damned wuss. After about two months of being single, she got back with her ex-boyfriend, and they seem pretty happy together again. Lesson learned: *don't be a p*ssy*.

If they break up again (or if any other 'taken' girl I have a crush on ever ends up becoming single), though, I'll know not to miss my chance a second time.

Post: #23

(11-09-2014 02:43 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  



You can't put your penis in a vagina unless it is right in front of you!

That is the fundamental tenet of my philosophy of game in almost those exact words.

"Pussies don't get pussy" is another one as the OP has learned.

Post: #24

(11-09-2014 01:47 PM)Hector_St_Clare Wrote:  What do you guys recommend I do?

Have sex with three other women. Then let's talk.

Post: #25

Seems like ur pedestalizing women waaaay to much.

Why Dont you consciously go out and be an asshole to random people? Then do some approaches (I know, its hard) but its all good. Desensitize yourself a bit.