Nemencine: You're still setting up a false dichotomy between giving it away and giving it to useless children, grandchildren, etc. Have kings throughout history said, "Well, my sons are all useless layabouts, time to pick some hardworking peasant out of a field and make him king?" No.
How about a little imagination? Step one is you create some sort of trust that no individual member of the family can touch. Step two is you have someone capable oversee that trust (this would be equivalent to a regent/regency council in a monarchy for a monarch who had not reached the age of majority, or a very clever and shrewd adviser). Step three is that you set certain conditions for someone being able to take over the trust or gain access to its funds. Step four is you have people (e.g. the person overseeing the trust) train other members of the family, (e.g. grandchildren, great grandchildren, etc.) such that they can meet those conditions (and you attach incentives to those teaching them to get them to that point). Step five is that someone from within the family rises to the occasion eventually, thus keeping the wealth and/or power within the family.
Certain families have maintained wealth and power for centuries. Did this come down to a run of good luck or good parenting, or did they put in place a whole set of plans to ensure that they literally couldn't lose? These are the same people who, regardless of plagues, famines, wars, etc. have kept on prospering. They don't let one bad incident screw everything up. Rather, you'd say, "Party's over. Everyone out of the pool." I think that's short-sighted.[/u]
^^^
Your arguments are non-sequitur and they are completely outside the points of contention.
There are 3 points of contention.
(1) After the parents have taking care of the basics, are the offsprings entitled to a self-righteous sense of indignation/entitlement to their parent's wealth?
(2) Do the parent have any moral obligation-- after providing for schooling, food, shelter, clothes-- do they have any moral obligation to bequeath a dynastic wealth to their children?
(3) If you are a grown adult, and yet, you are non-functional, spoilt brat; can you still go around blaming your parents?
These are the three points of contention. In fact, let me quote you:
for point # 1:
(09-18-2014 11:46 PM)Feisbook Control Wrote: I will probably inherit a reasonable amount of money from my own parents...... Frankly, I would be offended if I didn't inherit it.....
(09-19-2014 09:28 AM)Feisbook Control Wrote: Yes, I would be pissed off if my parents didn't pass it along to their grandchildren and so on.
For point #2:
(09-18-2014 11:46 PM)Feisbook Control Wrote: I can't get behind this idea of giving your money away.
For point #3:
(09-18-2014 11:46 PM)Feisbook Control Wrote: If kids turn out to be spoilt little idiots, then that's a failure on the part of the parents. .....
My position is that i disagree completely with all three of your position.
for point #1. If you feel that strongly about getting that kind of wealth("pissed off", "offended") then go and make that kind of money yourself. nothing is stopping you. you've been educated, feed, sheltered by your parents' effort and that is all you need. Point #2: Your parents wealth = their moral choice. everything else is a tax. political leanings have nothing to do with it. Point #3. After a certain stage, it is weak and pathetic for a grown arse man to go around blaming his parents for his fucked up life. get a grip.
All your scenarios about burning rembrandt, emperors and kings and some peasants are based on the thought process that the parents have a moral obligation to provide dynastic wealth. This thought process is based on the sense of entitlement. The offspring making any claim of moral obligation to dynastic wealth from the parents, is just entitlement masquerading as moral piety. Let us cut through the hamster. If you feel that strongly about it, why don't you go and create your own wealth? what is stopping you? You are not entitled to shite. Again, I addressed the moral entitledment arguments in this post.
This whole business of the moral imperative for parents to set up guidance of trust funds for grandchildren simply roils my stomach: in my ear it is basically saying "mommy and daddy should not only work their arses off to provide for me, but they should go the extra mile and take care of my own offsprings(my responsibilities). Afterall, my offsprings are their grandchildren, hence they should provide trust fund for them too.".
I am genuinely puzzled how you cannot find this to be deeply offensive. This is your exact quote
(09-19-2014 09:28 AM)Feisbook Control Wrote: Yes, I would be pissed off if my parents didn't pass it along to their grandchildren and so on.
In my view, a man should NEVER, NEVER think like way. It is a total abdication of responsibility, self-determination, lack of self-respect, a testament to incompetence and infantilism. Create your own wealth for your own children(your parent's grandchildren). On a primal level, it just offends my being as a man. Regardless of whether your parents decide to do this or not, no male should ever think like this. It is self-emasculating.
And the idea of you getting offended or pissed off if mommy and daddy didn't give you their money? Bloody Christ hanging on a Cross, feisbook control, please don't ever say that. It is nauseating your addition of "if somebody turned up all fucked up, even though they are a grown arse man, it is still their parents fault"!!!. This is such an abdication of personal responsibility i just cannot stand it. All these things offend conservative principles.
You know what i would have liked to read?
Instead of comments along the lines of mommy and daddy providing guardianship of a trustfund for me and my children. i would like to read stuff along the line of: this is how i am rigorously preparing and training myself to expand and build to stratospheric heights the fortune my parents will leave behind for me. I am the patriarch. The Alpha. This is my duty.
I will leave here as an intermission this "Life of a GO GETTA" song by Young Jeezy:
Even more kickarse if you wrote this: i used my own money + my parent's connection to start my own enterprise, and now, i am a multimillionaire in my own rights. If my parents decide to give me any inheritance, that will just be fuel to the fire. That is why i was soo irritated with Nicole Buffet going on Oprah, whining about not being able to spend Warren's billions. She could have applied herself + Warren's business/political connections = to make herself millions; then she won't be on Oprah whining about not getting Grandaddy's money.
I am not interested in hearing abhorrent stuff like "i will be pissed off" or really "offended" if daddy and mommy didn't give me money, or how daddy and mommy should also create trusts for my children, etc. because if they don't, that will be like them burning a rembrandt in fire or giving the king's kingdom away to peasants. Jesus H. Fucking Christ on a crutch!!!.
I think samsamsam and I have explained all we could about this. There is really nothing else to add.
I leave you with this "No Quitter, Go Getter" song by Lil Wayne.
Our psychology is just very different.
regards,
Nemencine
p.s. to Lizard of Oz...... i think it is a great injustice to life itself, to humanity, to the privilege of being alive, if a man waste his talents. (Man needs missions, goals, objectives...etc. Raw ambition provides this. Game, Self improvement, etc that RVF is all about, is simply ambition translated.)
Nemencine: You seem to have taken all that I have written very personally, and have constantly seen fit to insult me. I am sorry if I have inadvertently offended you, so let me try to diffuse the situation by admitting that maybe it's my fault and maybe you are right.
Whilst I don't agree with your position, I can see the merit in it and I also don't take it personally that we disagree.
I suggest you read Lizard of Oz's post again. It is good that you have the courage of your convictions, but as he wrote, don't lose the world. I have had certain convictions of which I was convinced 110%. The funny thing is that now I hold the complete opposite positions. I'm not trying to pull rank (in the sense of age) on you, just trying to point out that sometimes things change. I have lost good friendships either through heated exchanges or through someone just quietly going their own way because I was too overbearing. Whilst you and I have had little contact, what contact we have had so far has been both positive and encouraging, so I would hate to make an enemy of you over this.