Post: #151

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Post: #152

4. Single Motherhood Rates
This actually is the most plausible to me--but it is mostly because I have seen the least evidence against it, not because I think it has been shown that single motherhood rates per se is a great driver of violent crime and IQ.

This is because women who have children out of wedlock likely tend to be low in IQ, low in impulse control, low in consciousness, and high in time preference--thus passing these traits onto their children genetically. Same goes to the sires of these children. So it is tough to see what the impact of single motherhood is, adjusted for genetics.
^^^
Speaking of sophomore year social studies - this has been known for some time

Examples of follow-up questions that should be asked:

What factored in to those fathers leaving their families?
What circumstances made this a plausible option for these men?
Is there a cycle effect that causes the likelihood of low IQ becoming mothers?

Again, I maintain I am interested in the disease and NOT the symptoms

This is a discussion that can't be had by everyone because not everyone is willing to peel off the layers of the onion, opting instead to only peel off the outer skin

Again - the number/graphs/algorithms you are seeking aren't necessary to state obvious things we all know by now. Besides, I don't have to read about them or google articles - I've LIVED some of these things and have been affected by them via family & friends.

Therefore, you are getting 1st hand accounts not opinions or conjecture. My entry into this dialogue was never to debate or argue a position because as an earlier poster stated most people come to this discussion with preconceived bordering on unshakable beliefs.

Rather as RVF members with deeper discernment abilities, my intentions have been to encourage the why's and what for's of this matter
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http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/01/...ck-father/

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recently published new data on the role that American fathers play in parenting their children. Most of the CDC’s previous research on family life — which the agency explores as an important contributor to public health and child development — has focused exclusively on mothers. But the latest data finds that the stereotypical gender imbalance in this area doesn’t hold true, and dads are just as hands-on when it comes to raising their kids.

That includes African-American fathers.

In fact, in its coverage of the study, the Los Angeles Times noted that the results “defy stereotypes about black fatherhood” because the CDC found that black dads are more involved with their kids on a daily basis than dads from other racial groups

In some cases, the differences between black fathers and white or Latino fathers weren’t statistically significant. Nonetheless, the fact that there’s no dramatic drop-off for African-American fathers is still a surprising revelation for some people.

Considering the fact that “black fatherhood” is a phrase that is almost always accompanied by the word “crisis” in U.S. society, it’s understandable that the CDC’s results seem innovative. But in reality, the new data builds upon years of research that’s concluded that hands-on parenting is similar among dads of all races. There’s plenty of scientific evidence to bust this racially-biased myth.

The Pew Research Center, which has tracked this data for years, consistently finds no big differences between white and black fathers. Gretchen Livingston, one of the senior researchers studying family life at Pew, wasn’t at all surprised by the new CDC data. “Blacks look a lot like everyone else,” she pointed out.

Although black fathers are more likely to live separately from their children — the statistic that’s usually trotted out to prove the parenting “crisis” — many of them remain just as involved in their kids’ lives. Pew estimates that 67 percent of black dads who don’t live with their kids see them at least once a month, compared to 59 percent of white dads and just 32 percent of Hispanic dads.

And there’s compelling evidence that number of black dads living apart from their kids stems from structural systems of inequality and poverty, not the unfounded assumption that African-American men somehow place less value on parenting. Equal numbers of black dads and white dads tend to agree that it’s important to be a father who provides emotional support, discipline, and moral guidance. There’s one area of divergence in the way the two groups approach their parental responsibilities: Black dads are even more likely to think it’s important to financially provide for their children.

Dr. Roberta L. Coles, a sociology professor at Marquette University, has also researched black fathers for nearly a decade. Her most well-known work includes The Best Kept Secret: Single Black Fathers and The Myth of the Missing Black Father: The Persistence of Black Fatherhood in America. Like Pew, Coles has also found that even though black dads may be less likely to marry their kids’ mothers, they typically remain involved in raising their children.

In an interview with the Grio this week, Coles explained that she’s invested in continuing to challenge the prevailing stereotypes in this area. “It’s important to get it out there that that’s not the whole picture,” Coles noted. “People need to know there are men out there trying to do their best.”

That’s the same reason that Kenrya Rankin Naasel recently published Bet On Black, a collection of essays in which African-American women share their stories of being raised by great fathers. “For years, we’ve all been bombarded with statistics that scream our men are not up to the important task of fathering,” she explained in an interview with BET about her project. “Ultimately, I hope that Bet On Black challenges the rhetoric about our families and changes the conversation to one that celebrates rather than denigrates.”

Despite the concrete evidence to dispel the prevailing assumptions about black dads, the conversation is still dominated by headlines like “What’s the Problem with Black Fathers?” and “Who’s Your Daddy: The Epidemic Of Absent Black Fathers.” President Obama has drawn some criticism for repeatedly delivering speeches about the importance of fatherhood to nonwhite audiences. And this past fall, when Minnesota Vikings running back Adrian Peterson’s two-year-old son tragically passed away, the media wasted no time falling back on all the stereotypes about irresponsible black dads.

The resistance to the research in the field may speak to the fact that racially-motivated stereotypes are particularly hard to break out of. For instance, despite the wealth of evidence disproving Americans’ assumptions about welfare recipients, the deeply-ingrained myth of the “welfare queen” remains.
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There seems to be a difference of intent that has reared it's ugly head; On one hand you are sounding like you exist in this conversation to score wins debating "facts" about a community that you have not a stake in; whereas I exist to actually seek solutions & SOLVE problems that has eroded a community that I am a part of.

Shalom

Post: #153

(11-11-2014 11:25 PM)Kabal Wrote:  This is the difference, Giovonny, between violent crime and examples like high school/colleges shootings

Kabal,

Thanks again for posting with in depth detail and evidence. I appreciate it.

Before I respond, I need to ask you, respectfully..

What is the point you are trying to prove?

What is your hypothesis? What is your thesis?

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The point I was trying to make was simply this..

Crime statistics from Black American neighborhoods do not prove anything about the nature of Black people. This is because there are many other factors, other than race, that influence the likelihood of crime. These are things like poverty, living conditions, lack of families, drugs, criminal culture, etc.

The color of their skin is not necessarily causing crime. It's a combination of all of these things.

My other argument was this: Throughout history and around the world, Whites, Latins, and Asians have proven to be just as violent as modern day American Blacks.

That was my argument. (I understand that I could be wrong.. Which is why I seek a deeper understanding)

What is your argument? What is the point that you are trying to prove?

Thanks for the dialogue. This is a hard topic to discuss.

Post: #154

@Joga Bonito: You've clearly given them all the factual data they need. These arguments are actually rather pointless, because anyone making the argument of blacks having genetically having lower IQs is already someone who doesn't like blacks, so there's really nothing short of a declaration from God to the contrary that would change their mind. They are where all aware that taking IQ tests of people in Watts and comparing them to the IQs taken from people in Newport Beach are going to yield different results. There would have to be a study of black people not only born in Newport, but whose parents were born and raised in Newport as well, and then compare their IQs to whites in that same category.

I'll give a little example of what I'm trying to say above. This is a real world example, not taken from some racist blog or website. This past Monday a friend and I went to dinner at a Thai restaurant in town. While we were sitting there a Chinese couple and their two young kids walked in and sat down next to us. One of their kids, who appeared about 1 1/2 years old, started yelling out "water", as he was drinking his sippy cup of water. The father then started speaking to the 1 1/2 year-old, saying, "Yes, water is usually found in 3 states, liquid, condensation and frozen..." I couldn't hear everything he was saying, but this guy was breaking down the elemental nature of water to his 1 1/2 year-old! Of course his other child, who appeared about 6, was sitting there as well. So, will this child more than likely grow up having better test scores than someone whose parents don't talk to them about science and math, or worse yet, who only has one parent to begin with? Probably. But again, everyone knows it's environmental. Only people who have some racist agenda pretend it isn't.