Post: #1

(Googled around the forum, didn't find a thread that tackled this head on) - this was the closest but not quite hit the spot: /thread-16782.html

TL;DR: I think I'm having issues with building attraction and conveying sexual intent, would appreciate advice from more experienced guys on troubleshooting.

About me for context: early-intermediate day gamer, I practice on and off. Generally approach 5-7's, focus on college age girls - street, campus, or sometimes store approaches. I can get phone numbers fairly consistently - about 20% rate over my last ~30 recent street approaches which lasted over 1 min. About 1/3 are dead, 1/3 flake after a couple of texts, and 1/3 have converted into a date in recent times. My approach anxiety is relatively under control, and I can hold a ramble for 5-10 minutes, especially on social topics. I've gotten dates and a few lays from girls I've cold approached over the last couple of years (when between relationships), but not at the quality I'd like. I get pinned as nice guy material, I seem to do better with more feminine girls, lacking the frame control needed for the dominant ones.

Typical approach: indirect (usually ask for directions, events nearby, or situational), ramble, drop bait, get her name, handshake (try to extend the hold), see if she asks for my name, and ask if she wants to grab a drink once the conversation fizzes out regardless. Much of the time the rambling / conversation stays at a social level, the girls are friendly and polite but don't pick up on the bait - no "oh wow" and asking me questions, more tolerating my questions and deflecting more personal ones (what do you do for fun, etc ) - stays shallow and superficial, like a bus stop conversation - vibes are good throughout, and I don't get branded as a creeper.

When an approach goes well, there is strong eye contact and that "it's on" moment, but often I can't get the "maybe" girls to slow down and hooked in a conversation. What seems to have happened is that I've gotten better at screening for "yes" girls and running don't-fuck-up game, but having trouble at building the "maybes" into converting. Often, if I try to insert a "actually, I wanted to talk to you because I thought you're cute," there's good vibes, but the girl bows out or gives me a dud #.

I've gone on a few dates recently, sourced from both cold approaches and online. I seem to be having similar issues on those as well - conversation often stays at a superficial / logical level, the girls don't open up emotionally and are not receptive to kino, and flake.

Post: #2

How's your looks? How are you dressing? Imagine a hot girl just comes up to you. She doesn't have to build attraction because its already there. As long as she doesn't come off as a serial killer you're probably likely to say yes if she asks you out.

How confident is your voice? Your voice conveys your confidence, and if you are quiet and your body language is not right, she will not build attraction to you.

Also just expect a large majority to flake. you're getting 1/3 of the girls you meet out on dates, thats pretty good already.

Post: #3

(08-26-2014 10:14 PM)polar Wrote:  (Googled around the forum, didn't find a thread that tackled this head on) - this was the closest but not quite hit the spot: /thread-16782.html

TL;DR: I think I'm having issues with building attraction and conveying sexual intent, would appreciate advice from more experienced guys on troubleshooting.

About me for context: early / mid-20s, early-intermediate day gamer, I practice on and off. Generally approach 5-7's, focus on college age girls - street, campus, or sometimes store approaches. I can get phone numbers fairly consistently - about 20% rate over my last ~30 recent street approaches which lasted over 1 min. About 1/3 are dead, 1/3 flake after a couple of texts, and 1/3 have converted into a date in recent times. My approach anxiety is relatively under control, and I can hold a ramble for 5-10 minutes, especially on social topics. I've gotten dates and a few lays from girls I've cold approached over the last couple of years (when between relationships), but not at the quality I'd like. I get pinned as nice guy material, I seem to do better with more feminine girls, lacking the frame control needed for the dominant ones.

Typical approach: indirect (usually ask for directions, events nearby, or situational), ramble, drop bait, get her name, handshake (try to extend the hold), see if she asks for my name, and ask if she wants to grab a drink once the conversation fizzes out regardless. Much of the time the rambling / conversation stays at a social level, the girls are friendly and polite but don't pick up on the bait - no "oh wow" and asking me questions, more tolerating my questions and deflecting more personal ones (what do you do for fun, etc ) - stays shallow and superficial, like a bus stop conversation - vibes are good throughout, and I don't get branded as a creeper.

When an approach goes well, there is strong eye contact and that "it's on" moment, but often I can't get the "maybe" girls to slow down and hooked in a conversation. What seems to have happened is that I've gotten better at screening for "yes" girls and running don't-fuck-up game, but having trouble at building the "maybes" into converting. Often, if I try to insert a "actually, I wanted to talk to you because I thought you're cute," there's good vibes, but the girl bows out or gives me a dud #.

I've gone on a few dates recently, sourced from both cold approaches and online. I seem to be having similar issues on those as well - conversation often stays at a superficial / logical level, the girls don't open up emotionally and are not receptive to kino, and flake.

This is basically all you need. The veteran players out there got really good at screening yes girls and approach a lot more to get more yes girls. They dont waste time with the maybe girls unless she is really really hot.

And 20pct of number is pretty good, 1/3 converted to date meaning roughly 7pct of dates. I say you are doing fine. As for attraction you need to sexualize the date a bit. Tease her. Thats the most basic and works for just about everyone. Also escalate. It creates tension.

Try to venue change if your date is about grabbing drinks.

Do you go for instant date during your day game? Try it and see how it works for you. Personally Im done number farming.

Post: #4

I think the difference is in indirect vs direct approach, indirect means you have to build attraction, direct pretty for the majority of the time lets you skip attraction.

Post: #5

I appreciate the suggestions.

I'm finding best results in a button up shirt with jeans (a clean cut casual look), moderate in dress clothes (conservative), and mediocre in a t-shirt, but the differences aren't large. I also try for the instant date, but those have been fairly rare - I ask about grabbing drinks on the spot, if not I fall back on going for the number.

I reread a bit of Day Bang, based on that, better ramble and more bait should help. I think more practice would help me get my voice dialed in with hotter girls on approaches. I've met some girls which weren't really up for being teased on the date and were lukewarm to kino. I've been taking the path of least resistance by not pushing my sets, rather leaning back into low-energy mode.

Post: #6

In short you don't escalate the interaction in the direction you want it to go. I mean not moving the interaction forward conversationally, emotionally, logistically and physically too.

I think rambling about random stuff, dropping a bait and expecting girls to bite it is very "cross your fingers" kind of game. Why would a girl take the lead and game some random dude who appears out of nowhere? It's unrealistic and usually leads nowhere. Take the charge. Take over the interaction and convey some sort of interest to knock them off the fence. That's how you "enforce" yellow light girls to stay or leave.

Relevant...

Post: #7

XXL - thanks, this hits the spot!! Yes, I need to get more control and structure in my sets. My escalation has been too loose. I go from observational to impersonal to personal topics, but have been slacking on the logistical side. I don't do much physical when it's daytime.

His model idea works well - if there's no escalation going on, there's no game going on.

Escalating options:
a) logistics
b) physically
c) emotionally (move to conversations about you and her)
---Conversation topics: I > you (asking questions > you (telling things and cold reads) > we (creating the bubble)
d) conversation topics (from less to more sexual)

He does not advocate escalating only in one area at a time, particularly logistics as it creates a risk of appearing forced.

Other noteworthy suggestion from the video: be willing to step away from something that already works for you to experiment with a different structure and get better in the long run.

Post: #8

Here's another good one that Nomad77 forwarded along:





In short, if she's standing there, try something small, if she doesn't react negatively, push it further. If she reacts negatively, take a step back and try again later.

I'm going to give this a roll.

Post: #9

I have found that body language is everything. I guarantee it's in your body language, but it's too big of a subject. Throw in cocky funny a little ways into the conversation. Don't take the entire conversation too seriously and find ways to add in DHV's. Then make her think you won't ask for her number and almost let her leave, then get it or give her yours. Giving her your number is a show of confidence in itself "I'm so confident that you like me that I know you will text ME later, I don't need your number."

I recently asked a girl what type of interesting ways has a guy got her number and she said the one that sticks out the most was when he gave her his number. It showed a lot of confidence in himself. It reconfirms the hundreds of papers with my number that I have given out helps my success.

Post: #10

(09-20-2014 08:00 AM)20Nation Wrote:  I have found that body language is everything. I guarantee it's in your body language, but it's too big of a subject. Throw in cocky funny a little ways into the conversation. Don't take the entire conversation too seriously and find ways to add in DHV's. Then make her think you won't ask for her number and almost let her leave, then get it or give her yours. Giving her your number is a show of confidence in itself "I'm so confident that you like me that I know you will text ME later, I don't need your number."

I recently asked a girl what type of interesting ways has a guy got her number and she said the one that sticks out the most was when he gave her his number. It showed a lot of confidence in himself. It reconfirms the hundreds of papers with my number that I have given out helps my success.

Paul Janka said he has never ever given a woman a number and she called him. He may have been talking about in the context of if you ask her for her digits and she just says "give me yours" instead of the context of what you're talking about which is giving a girl your number with the confident assurance she'll call. But still, a successful PUA like Janka is vehemently opposed to just letting her have your number and not getting hers as women being so non-aggressive...even if they like you okay....they'll rationalize not calling a stranger.

I'd like to know if you have had success with giving girls your number.

Post: #11

A lot of success. But about 75% of the girls i approach give me an IOI first. that could be one thing. Also could be new york, I have never gamed there. But he must be doing something wrong, giving it to them in a weird way or someth. When guys get comfortable in their own styles, they usually stick to it. If a girl is interested in you, why would she not message you?

Post: #12

I honestly don't know how to "build attraction".

The only thing I know is to be attractive and have a good personality.

This means.. Work on your presentation (looks, fashion, grooming, etc.) and your conversational skills (humor, rapport, comfort, etc.)

If you are not attractive to a girl and you can't have a good conversation with her, I don't see how you can "build attraction".

There are exceptions but.. "Attraction" is often instinctive and immediate.. The girl knows if she is attracted to you in the first few seconds or minutes. If no attraction exists, it can be hard to build it. If attraction pre-exists, all we have to do is cultivate it and maintain it.

If a girl is not attracted to me, I often just find another who is.

I don't have time to try and convince a girl to be attracted to me.

I would rather spent that time making myself more attractive.

Post: #13

"Personally Im done number farming."
number farming is cold approaches during the day to get her number?

In which case what is your preferred method for getting new leads? Just interested in alternative methods to cold day approaches

Post: #14

Obviously some girls give numbers without responding later...or it resulting in a date. Are these girls "not attracted" or have they changed their mind?

Sometimes, I get a girl's number and I'm sure she'll respond to my text and a date will happen because of her IOIS....and she doesn't even respond to my first text.

Other times, interested girls do end up in dates.

Rarely, do I have it go where the girl seems aloof, gives her number and it ends in a date. I need to tweak my game as I'm getting a lot of numbers in day game that are leading no where.

In other words...I'm getting less than the "11%" Janka and others have said result in bangs. That is....1 in 9 numbers results in a bang. Maybe this is some universal number for players with ultra tight game....but for the "average" player it must be a different universal constant. Hell, I got 5 numbers in one week recently that didn't even result in a date ( though in all honesty, after considering I decided one wasn't attractive enough )

I think someone on here said you have to approach 40 women to get ( it was either one or two bangs )

Post: #15

^^^^^ I like this one.



Or you can just go balls deep like the simple pickup guys and go for the kiss.







^^^^ Personally I have never tried this. But if any guys have tried let us know.