Post: #251

(12-07-2016 09:28 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

(12-06-2016 09:44 PM)Tenerife Wrote:  I'm in Ukraine and the overcast winter skies and short hours is contributing to a terrible sleep cycle and overall winter malaise.

I need a light box asap.

Any tips on how to get one of these things in Ukraine are welcome.

Tenerife, both the Sunlight Jr. from Sunbox and the Lumie Brazil from Lumie can be shipped to Ukraine. The Lumie Brazil may be a better deal for you because it ships from the UK, but you should find out the full price with shipping for both and get one of them as soon as possible. If you use it correctly and consistently it will obliterate your winter malaise and sleep dysregulation, and there is no way to put a price tag on that.

I'm down to buy the sunlight JR., but when I go to that link and proceed to checkout it only allows me to enter an address from two countries: USA and Canada.

I went to the Lumie link and it has an arrow down for Ukraine, but doesn't tell me how long it will take to get here, or any ETA. I might switch my apartment relatively soon so that's another concern.

I would pay a premium to be able to get this thing ASAP.

Also, is there any way to shop amazon by products that will ship to ukraine? It seems like Ebay shows you products that ship to your country but not amazon.

Post: #252

(12-08-2016 09:06 PM)Tenerife Wrote:  

(12-07-2016 09:28 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

(12-06-2016 09:44 PM)Tenerife Wrote:  I'm in Ukraine and the overcast winter skies and short hours is contributing to a terrible sleep cycle and overall winter malaise.

I need a light box asap.

Any tips on how to get one of these things in Ukraine are welcome.

Tenerife, both the Sunlight Jr. from Sunbox and the Lumie Brazil from Lumie can be shipped to Ukraine. The Lumie Brazil may be a better deal for you because it ships from the UK, but you should find out the full price with shipping for both and get one of them as soon as possible. If you use it correctly and consistently it will obliterate your winter malaise and sleep dysregulation, and there is no way to put a price tag on that.

I'm down to buy the sunlight JR., but when I go to that link and proceed to checkout it only allows me to enter an address from two countries: USA and Canada.

I went to the Lumie link and it has an arrow down for Ukraine, but doesn't tell me how long it will take to get here, or any ETA. I might switch my apartment relatively soon so that's another concern.

I would pay a premium to be able to get this thing ASAP.

Also, is there any way to shop amazon by products that will ship to ukraine? It seems like Ebay shows you products that ship to your country but not amazon.

Tenerife, Sunbox will ship worldwide including Ukraine (I'm pretty sure). But you have to call them. They say this in their user's guide page:

http://www.sunbox.com/buyers-guide/

Quote:If you’re in a rush to get your order, most orders can be shipped by expedited methods, for an additional fee.

We do ship worldwide, but do not have standardized fees for international shipping charges. Therefore, if you are placing an order to be shipped outside the U.S.A. or Canada, we will contact several carriers to obtain a quote before shipping your order. You will need to provide the following information before we can obtain the quote:

complete delivery address, including recipient’s name
daytime telephone number of the recipient (include country & city codes, if applicable)
which product(s) are to be ordered
how & when it would be convenient for us to contact you with a quote (our preferred method is by e-mail, so we don’t have to worry about time-zones)

Once we receive our quote from the various carriers – usually within an hour or two – we will contact you with the relevant information and ask you to verify the method of delivery and acceptance of the shipping charges.

Call them at 1.301.869.5980 from outside the US and they will get you a quote for shipping to where you are. They should be able to give you different shipping options and an ETA. If you're willing to pay a real premium they might give you an expedited shipping option.

With Lumie, you can call them as well at this number:

01954 780500

(It's in the UK so the UK country code would come first).

You should talk to them and find out how long it would take to ship to where you are. Talk to both of these companies and choose the best deal that gets you your light box the fastest.

Post: #253

Lightbox update! I bought the Lumie Brazil about a month ago but took a while to get into a regular routine of using it everyday. For the last 2 weeks I've used it every single day without fail - usually around 7am for 20-30 minutes.

I was naturally quite sceptical of all this but given all the praise light therapy gets on here thought it would be worth trying. After consistent use I am definitely falling to sleep much easier, usually within 10 minutes of getting in bed which is something I've never done - can remember way back at school around 15/16 I had a terrible time falling asleep, almost every night. Note that my work/gym routine and diet hasn't changed at all, only difference is the light box use.

Another thing I've noticed is I can wake up much earlier than before, but feel much more well rested - even sometimes after only 6 hours sleep. To be honest I never had a problem waking early but the difference here is I actually feel awake almost immediately rather than it taking all morning and shit loads of coffee to get going. I'm now nearly into a solid routine of sleep between 10-11, up at 6/7.

The Lumie boxes bought on their website have a 45 free trial so that swung it for me over any other brand. The box itself is great quality - expensive at around £150 and whoever makes them must make a serious margin but I didn't want to go for a cheaper imitation box that might not work as well.

As you can see I am sold on them, great thanks and +1 to LOZ for this for this thread! If you are on the fence like I was just give it a go.

Post: #254

SanMiguel, that's wonderful to hear, thank you for this update.

Keep using the light box correctly and consistently like you are doing now, and you will only see the benefits continue and deepen over time. Correct and consistent usage is the key to getting the most out of it.

Post: #255

TLOZ, do you have any opinions on this light box?

https://www.amazon.com/Aurora-LightPad-M...+light+box

I recently bought this guy and holy shit is it bright. It provides 10,000 LUX at 25 inches, however it uses LED lights. I was wondering if you (or anybody else) had come across any literature supporting or condemning the use of LED lights for bright light therapy.

Post: #256

TLoZ, first of all thank you for the awesome thread. I'm almost 100% certain that I have had Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder since my early teens. So I just bought myself a Carex Day-Light Classic Plus off Ebay for US$150 including shipping to Australia. It's going to take 2-3 weeks for this baby to arrive, but I'll be sure to report back as soon as I can.

Post: #257

(01-06-2017 07:57 AM)arafat scarf Wrote:  TLOZ, do you have any opinions on this light box?

https://www.amazon.com/Aurora-LightPad-M...+light+box

I recently bought this guy and holy shit is it bright. It provides 10,000 LUX at 25 inches, however it uses LED lights. I was wondering if you (or anybody else) had come across any literature supporting or condemning the use of LED lights for bright light therapy.

arafat scarf, the answer is that it's currently not really known just how effective the LED based devices are. There is some evidence to show that they are at least somewhat effective (eg this study) but the track record is just not comparable to the track record for fluorescent full spectrum light boxes. My inclination would be to give the LED devices more time to prove themselves. In addition, I am concerned that the extreme brightness of this particular box might make it uncomfortable to use or to come near it and that will lead, over time, to it not being used correctly or to a lapse in use. Light therapy is at its most effective when it is being done correctly and consistently, same time every morning like clockwork, so it's important to get a box that you will actually start using and keep using.

Since you already have this box, you could try it out and see how it works for you. Or, given that the price is comparable to something like the Sunlight Jr. and the latter has a proven track record and is easy and convenient to use, you could return it and get that instead. In either case, I'd be very interested if you could follow up with an update post and let us know what your experience with it has been like.

Post: #258

(01-06-2017 08:55 AM)Deluge Wrote:  TLoZ, first of all thank you for the awesome thread. I'm almost 100% certain that I have had Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder since my early teens. So I just bought myself a Carex Day-Light Classic Plus off Ebay for US$150 including shipping to Australia. It's going to take 2-3 weeks for this baby to arrive, but I'll be sure to report back as soon as I can.

Deluge, first of all welcome back -- I feel like I haven't seen you around here for a while, or at least I've missed seeing your name in threads. I hope that all is well.

I'm glad to hear that you are treating your DSPS -- or whatever sleeping difficulties you have -- in the best possible way. I look forward to your updates once you actually start using it -- I think that you will see a rapid and dramatic initial effect, which then consolidates over time. But please do follow up here either way.

Post: #259

Going to pull the trigger on Lumia (EU based).
However, what is your opinion on ARABICA vs BRAZIL?

Arabica has 2 bulbs, needs 25 cm which seems a bit restrictive. Official website says it needs 30 to 60 minutes.

Brazil is much bigger, 3 bulbs, you can be much further (35 cm) which makes use so much easier... but the big bonus is the website states that you only need 30 mins max, as oposed to the arabica where they recomend longer exposures because it has one less bulb.

Opinions? I don't mind spending on the Brazil, it seems more convenient (longer distance plus more bulbs means same effects at shorter exposures).


Also, anyone bought it from amazon.co.uk? Did you get EU plugs or one of those stupid UK plugs?

Post: #260

(01-11-2017 03:31 PM)Stallion Wrote:  Going to pull the trigger on Lumia (EU based).
However, what is your opinion on ARABICA vs BRAZIL?

Arabica has 2 bulbs, needs 25 cm which seems a bit restrictive. Official website says it needs 30 to 60 minutes.

Brazil is much bigger, 3 bulbs, you can be much further (35 cm) which makes use so much easier... but the big bonus is the website states that you only need 30 mins max, as oposed to the arabica where they recomend longer exposures because it has one less bulb.

Opinions? I don't mind spending on the Brazil, it seems more convenient (longer distance plus more bulbs means same effects at shorter exposures).


Also, anyone bought it from amazon.co.uk? Did you get EU plugs or one of those stupid UK plugs?

I recommend the Lumie Brazil, for the reasons you stated. It's a bigger box so you don't have to sit so close and it's easier to generate 10,000 Lux at a reasonable distance. It's also sturdy and well-constructed. For those in Europe, the Lumie Brazil would be my go-to light box.

Not sure about the plugs.

Post: #261

Does bright light therapy have to be done right after you wake up? I'm thinking of doing it at work because I usually don't have half an hour to sit still in the morning before going to work.

Post: #262

(01-19-2017 07:46 AM)duedue Wrote:  Does bright light therapy have to be done right after you wake up? I'm thinking of doing it at work because I usually don't have half an hour to sit still in the morning before going to work.

duedue, it depends on how early you get to work. It is best to use the light box within about an hour of waking up; if you really have to you can stretch that to 90 minutes but I wouldn't go beyond that. So if you could be seated in front of a light box at work within 60-90 minutes of waking up, go for it.

Otherwise, you might consider moving your waking time up by half an hour or so to accommodate the light box since it will likely pay off in terms of better quality and consistency of sleep.

Post: #263

OK, then I have a little problem. I usually wake us too early, say around 5 am and am usually awake in bed for 1 hour (or even more) trying to get back to sleep, before I give up and get up.

Post: #264

I have upgraded my Sunbox Jr. with a brand new appliance timer.

I've blacked out my room completely using trash bags and painter's tape. This is amazing for sleep hygiene but terrible for waking up. When I wake up there's no sun or light to keep me awake and it's easy to want to climb back into bed after hitting the alarm. Enter the timer..

I saw they had it on the Sunbox website. I already own the light so instead of paying $15 for the timer + $15 shipping, I went to my local Home Depot and bought a similar model for $15.

I highly recommend buying the timer. I have a desk in my room that's 10 feet away from the bed, so the light hits my bed. If you use the Sunbox in the living room this is unnecessary but it's great for me.

After tinkering with the time settings, I have it set so the light comes on at 6:30 and my timer goes off at 6:32. This means I've got a good two minutes where the light is shining down on me but no alarm has gone off. Sometimes I'll wake up from just the light. Other times I'll wake up from the alarm, then be surprised when the light is shining right in my face.

I put my phone right in front of the light, so I have to get up and get assaulted by the light in order to turn my alarm off.

I'm waking up faster and never skipping a bright light session since the light is already on.

You can buy one from Sunbox here.

OR if you're a cheap bastard like me you can get the exact same timer at Harbor Freight for $5 or just go down to your local hardware store and buy one.

Post: #265

I've been using a Suntouch Plus off and on for close to a year now and have great results, noticeable within 3-4 days. It really helps in the transition from day shift to night shift, which I sometimes have to go through for my job. I actually have two of them now because I had to relocate to the east coast unexpectedly and didn't bring the light box with me. I also didn't bring it down south with me during my two month trip but am back home now and using it daily within ten minutes of waking up for about a half an hour, it really helps because we're in the middle of winter (huge storm today, 60 cms of snow!) and the light box coupled with vitamin D supplementing makes the winter blues easier to deal with.

Post: #266

I just finished going through the whole thread, and I must say I am very tempted to start trying this. I sometimes suffer continuous insomnia, and on weekends when I sleep more, I actually feel more tired.

Also because I am starting to do early morning fasted cardio, I was thinking I could try waking up a bit earlier to do this light therapy, and do my cardio session 20-30 minutes after it. Do you have any opinion on this approach?

I am a bit unsure on which box should I get though. I am looking for something small that doesn't take much space, since my current desk is not very big. Would appreciate some recommendations.

Post: #267

(02-21-2017 03:10 AM)FretDancer Wrote:  I just finished going through the whole thread, and I must say I am very tempted to start trying this. I sometimes suffer continuous insomnia, and on weekends when I sleep more, I actually feel more tired.

Also because I am starting to do early morning fasted cardio, I was thinking I could try waking up a bit earlier to do this light therapy, and do my cardio session 20-30 minutes after it. Do you have any opinion on this approach?

I am a bit unsure on which box should I get though. I am looking for something small that doesn't take much space, since my current desk is not very big. Would appreciate some recommendations.

FretDancer, if you are suffering from insomnia you should definitely try this. Bright light therapy, if you use it correctly and consistently, is likely to cure your insomnia, and in relatively short order. And yes, sleeping in on weekends and feeling even more tired as a result is something that just kills a sleeping schedule. The key is to regularize it as much as possible and have consistent times at which your body and brain shut down and restart. That's exactly what the light box will help you achieve. The idea of waking up a little earlier to fit a 30 minute light box session before your cardio sounds like a good one.

As far as the specific light box to get, I think the Sunlight Jr. that I recommended in the OP is a good choice:

http://www.sunbox.com/shop/10000-lux-bri...ight-jr-2/

It is fairly small and light, from the specs:

Quote:Dimensions: 14.5″ Tall x 7″ Wide (Face) x 6″ Sides with 8′ power cord
Weight: 3.5 lbs – Very light weight, aluminum construction

It should fit comfortably even on a small desk.

Post: #268

(01-19-2017 07:46 AM)duedue Wrote:  Does bright light therapy have to be done right after you wake up? I'm thinking of doing it at work because I usually don't have half an hour to sit still in the morning before going to work.

(02-21-2017 03:10 AM)FretDancer Wrote:  Also because I am starting to do early morning fasted cardio, I was thinking I could try waking up a bit earlier to do this light therapy, and do my cardio session 20-30 minutes after it. Do you have any opinion on this approach?

Once you start using the light box I think you'll find it easier to wake earlier anyway. I've found that with a decent routine of regularly using my light box (Lumie Brazil) - every single day at the same time and a good regular nightime routine in general, I need less sleep and wake up naturally considerably earlier than usual. Although I'm asleep for less time I'm getting a much higher quality sleep than before and definitely notice the difference.

The absolute key is using it regularly, I've had periods of really poor sleep when staying at my girlfriends on and off through the week, not using the light box. It really ruins my routine unless I take the light box to hers which is a pain. I've limited myself to staying there once a week now as good sleep is more important.

Post: #269

PSA: Do not plug your American Sunbox Jr. into a 230V European outlet without a stepdown converter, you will blow the light out.

Post: #270

I bought the Sunlight Junior a while ago per Lizard's suggestion, but haven't really started using it until today, as it just sat on my desk and was forgotten about. I've realized that I take too many naps to be productive, and often wake up later than what is helpful for optimal productivity. As I work from home and can set my own schedule, that can be counterproductive.

Day 1 (today) on the Sunlight Jr: I have the light about 16-20" away from my face. The manual recommends 14" for 10,000 lux, but I can't scoot my long legs under the desk and get closer to the light. This thing would be really useful to come with a flexible arm mount. I'm going to try for about 30 minutes at this current distance and increase exposure as needed due to being the less-than-optimal 14" recommended. One thing I've noticed right away, is that the light helps me feel very focused. You can't get drowsy with this bright light less than two feet away from your face. It is a Sunday morning here, where I normally wake up around 9am, but for some reason woke up at 7:30am despite going to bed around 1am last night. So I'm going on six and a half hours sleep. I'm going to try to go to bed earlier, then wake up earlier, then use the Sunboy each day until I can dial it in.

Some tips:

1. Set a "go to bed" alarm to consistently go to bed at the same time each night.
2. Set a "wakeup" alarm at the same time each morning.
3. Title your wakeup alarm Sunboy to remember to use the unit.
4. Set a countdown timer to dial in 30 minutes (or more if you are farther away from the light like I am). Play with the length of time needed until your sleep improves.

Here's the manual with further advice if anyone wants to read it:

http://www.sunbox.com/wp-content/uploads...3-2016.pdf

Post: #271

The instructions to the light I purchased state:

Quote:If you find it difficult to stay awake in the late evening and wake up too early in the morning, you need supplemental light in the evening.

Also the website to the Sunbox, recommended in this thread says:

Quote:At the opposite end of the spectrum are those affected by Advanced Sleep Phase Syndrome (ASPS), a condition that primarily affects older people.14It is characterized by early sleep onset and early morning awakening, with the inability to maintain sleep past the predawn hours (e.g., 3-4 am).15 As with Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome [see above section], people with ASPS typically sleep the same number of hours as those without sleep phase disorders, they just experience it out of sync with the world’s daily living patterns.

Again, bright light treatment is highly effective in treating this problem. Used in the evening – about 2 to 4 hours before scheduled bedtime – 10,000 lux of light for at least 30 minutes or 2,500 lux for at least 2 hours daily will gradually delay sleep onset, with a subsequent delay of awakening time. If the bright light treatment is found to be too energizing at bedtime, it should be scheduled to end at least 1 to 2 hours before the scheduled bedtime. Once the target schedule is achieved, it can be maintained by regular use of a shorter duration of bright light in the evening.

Does anyone have experience using Bright Light therapy in the evening instead of the morning?

Post: #272

(06-26-2017 09:12 PM)nmmoooreland20 Wrote:  The instructions to the light I purchased state:

Quote:If you find it difficult to stay awake in the late evening and wake up too early in the morning, you need supplemental light in the evening.

Also the website to the Sunbox, recommended in this thread says:

Quote:At the opposite end of the spectrum are those affected by Advanced Sleep Phase Syndrome (ASPS), a condition that primarily affects older people.14It is characterized by early sleep onset and early morning awakening, with the inability to maintain sleep past the predawn hours (e.g., 3-4 am).15 As with Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome [see above section], people with ASPS typically sleep the same number of hours as those without sleep phase disorders, they just experience it out of sync with the world’s daily living patterns.

Again, bright light treatment is highly effective in treating this problem. Used in the evening – about 2 to 4 hours before scheduled bedtime – 10,000 lux of light for at least 30 minutes or 2,500 lux for at least 2 hours daily will gradually delay sleep onset, with a subsequent delay of awakening time. If the bright light treatment is found to be too energizing at bedtime, it should be scheduled to end at least 1 to 2 hours before the scheduled bedtime. Once the target schedule is achieved, it can be maintained by regular use of a shorter duration of bright light in the evening.

Does anyone have experience using Bright Light therapy in the evening instead of the morning?

It's rarely a good idea, unless you're a geezer who is having trouble staying awake by 8pm and is up well before dawn (which is more or less what the quoted paragraphs describe).

What is the problem you are trying to address?

Post: #273

(06-26-2017 09:22 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

(06-26-2017 09:12 PM)nmmoooreland20 Wrote:  The instructions to the light I purchased state:

Quote:If you find it difficult to stay awake in the late evening and wake up too early in the morning, you need supplemental light in the evening.

Also the website to the Sunbox, recommended in this thread says:

Quote:At the opposite end of the spectrum are those affected by Advanced Sleep Phase Syndrome (ASPS), a condition that primarily affects older people.14It is characterized by early sleep onset and early morning awakening, with the inability to maintain sleep past the predawn hours (e.g., 3-4 am).15 As with Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome [see above section], people with ASPS typically sleep the same number of hours as those without sleep phase disorders, they just experience it out of sync with the world’s daily living patterns.

Again, bright light treatment is highly effective in treating this problem. Used in the evening – about 2 to 4 hours before scheduled bedtime – 10,000 lux of light for at least 30 minutes or 2,500 lux for at least 2 hours daily will gradually delay sleep onset, with a subsequent delay of awakening time. If the bright light treatment is found to be too energizing at bedtime, it should be scheduled to end at least 1 to 2 hours before the scheduled bedtime. Once the target schedule is achieved, it can be maintained by regular use of a shorter duration of bright light in the evening.

Does anyone have experience using Bright Light therapy in the evening instead of the morning?

It's rarely a good idea, unless you're a geezer who is having trouble staying awake by 8pm and is up well before dawn (which is more or less what the quoted paragraphs describe).

What is the problem you are trying to address?

I'm generally fatigued all the time, but I do tend to wake up before dawn or around dawn sometimes and get very sleepy in the evenings, especially after eating dinner, or when sitting around reading or watching TV.

Post: #274

(06-27-2017 07:57 AM)nmmoooreland20 Wrote:  I'm generally fatigued all the time, but I do tend to wake up before dawn or around dawn sometimes and get very sleepy in the evenings, especially after eating dinner, or when sitting around reading or watching TV.

1. Decide on the time in the morning that you want to wake up every day. Let's say for example it's 7am (but it can whatever time you think is best for your day to day schedule).

2. Make sure you stay up until a reasonable time, no earlier than 8 hours before you want to wake up. So if you want to get up at 7, don't go to bed until 11pm even if you feel sleepy.

3. No matter what time you wake up, do your light box at the time you want t wake up. In this case, you would do the light box shortly after 7. Do it for 30 minutes at the right distance and setting to get 10,000 Lux.

4. Repeat steps 1, 2, and 3 every day without fail, including weekends.

If you do all of this repeatedly, you will be able to entrain a schedule where you wake up when you want and go to bed when you want. The key is to be consistent. There is no need to use the light box in the evening -- just use it around the time when you want to wake up and don't go to bed earlier than the time you would be going to bed on your desired schedule.

This kind of use of the light box will also likely give you better energy through the day and prevent you from feeling fatigued all the time.

Two more things:

a) Do not abuse caffeine to get yourself through the day; drink at most one cup of coffee, in the first half of the day, and not on an empty stomach. For example you can have your coffee after lunch, or after breakfast (but don't have breakfast before the time when you want to be waking up)

b) Do you have good shades in your bedroom? Part of the reason you are waking up too early may be that there is too much light in your room in the morning during this time of year. Look into getting an opaque paper shade to cover your window if you need to, they are cheap and get the job done.

Post: #275

Fuck me, my mood has taken a serious turn for the worse, since days got shorter. I've ordered a Philips light therapy lamp. Thanks for the tip TLoZ, really hope it helps.