Post: #1

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/20...cmpid=yhoo

Imagine a government program that has exploded in size, is the subject of bitter partisan haggling and spends almost $80 billion a year in secret.

No, not the National Security Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency or the Department of Homeland Security, which all spend less (as far as anyone call tell). The program in question is food stamps, formally known as the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, which now are used by one in six Americans.

But after the U.S. Department of Agriculture lost a court case in January, in which it opposed telling the public which businesses get all that money, the government is reconsidering: This month it said it would think about revealing how much money individual retailers receive. The department is accepting public comments on the proposal. If the past is any indication, big-box retailers, supermarkets and convenience stores will oppose it.

Let's hope the department ignores them, if only to make good on the principle that taxpayers deserve to know how their money is spent. Nor is there sound legal precedent for withholding food-stamp spending data. Other social programs, such as Medicare and Medicaid, provide a bounty of data on how much specific vendors receive in government payments and are releasing more all the time.

What might the food-stamp information tell us? At a minimum, we would get confirmation that they make up a large part of the sales of some of the country's biggest retailers, such as Wal-Mart Stores Inc.

Wal-Mart, the nation's largest grocer, has already acknowledged the importance of food stamps in its latest annual report. It warned that if the program ever experienced large spending cuts -- as House Republicans unsuccessfully demanded during much of the past two years -- its results could be hurt. Wal-Mart had about $279 billion in U.S. sales last year, about half from groceries.

We might also get some insight into where and how fraud occurs in the food-stamp program. That was one rationale in the court ruling, which noted that "Congress has clearly indicated its intent to involve the public in counteracting fraud perpetrated by retailers participating in the program." Although fraud is estimated by the Government Accountability Office at about 1 percent, that's as much as $800 million a year.

If the data were public, watchdogs and the news media could ferret out retailers that do an inordinate amount of food-stamp business, perhaps because they permit misuse of the benefits. This was one of the reasons that the USDA ended up in court in the first place: A newspaper in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, the Argus Leader, filed a Freedom of Information Act request as part of an investigation into claims that beneficiaries received cash from retailers instead of food.

A number of food activists think the Agriculture Department should go further and disclose what products are purchased. The department shouldn't hesitate to do so. Food stamps can be used to buy almost anything, with the exception of tobacco and alcohol and a short list of nonfood goods such as pet food, soap, household supplies and some prepared foods. That leaves the entire universe of junk food, which is responsible in large measure for the U.S. obesity epidemic. Obtaining product information might help public-health officials persuade lawmakers to adopt reasonable prohibitions on food-stamp use; a parallel nutrition program known as Women, Infants and Children already bars almost all heavily processed foods.

Any complaints by the USDA that imposing limits would be too complicated have to be viewed skeptically. Food stamps are stamps in name only: Beneficiaries make purchases with a card much like that used at an automated teller machine. The cards could be programmed to help the USDA glean valuable data on what recipients are buying. With that, the government could develop a "do-not-sell" list that retailers could incorporate into the product codes that are scanned at the point of sale.

This might even pay dividends: Along with ensuring that beneficiaries have healthier diets, it might steal some of the rhetorical heat from those who think too many people on food stamps are living high on the taxpayer's dime.

Post: #2

Yes, the number of people on food stamps has nearly doubled since the 2008 housing crash.

Not only is our national debt out of control, but the number of people dependent on a govt. that is going bankrupt is beyond alarming.

Also look at the explosion in the number of people who now collect disability. If we don't get someone in there next election that actually understands economics and will actually tell us the truth that we need to cut EVERYTHING and work harder to get out of this, we will eventually suffer badly.

Post: #3

The day that the government can't afford to pay for food stamps will be a dark day indeed. I bet they'll stop social security payments first before they go and do that.

Post: #4

I bet that you would find that SNAP significantly or even primarily contributes to the viability of the junk food market.

Post: #5

These people will be in trouble when the economy implodes. Relying on the state is never a good thing.

Post: #6

At least some of this has to do with immigration and NAFTA. People coming in while jobs are sent overseas = food stamps for the masses.

Immigration was always strictly controlled under FDR and his immediate predecessors. For example, my people, the Italians, were only allowed to immigrate from around 1890-1920 -- in limited numbers. You don't hear about throngs of Italians suddenly arriving in the US circa 1950 because there were none.

The reason for this was that when you take in millions upon millions of immigrants and you already have a problem with unemployment in your country, troubles arise.

Meanwhile, the guy who wrote this article is worried that people are using the food stamps to buy Twinkies. Yeah, that's our biggest problem.

Post: #7

You have to hand it to the idiots who still think this system is good for the country and the people it serves.

The last time I read up on these were that you could buy all sorts of stuff outside of the essentials. I don't see the benefit of buying alcohol when you're poor and jobless. it basically feeds a lazy monster type of society which is angry when the good times stop.

When you create dependency on something, be it drink, drugs or food and you then reduce the intake or go cold turkey, the effects are most often violent and exasperated the longer it has been allowed to continue.

Food stamps are a dependency the majority of people are addicted too for no other reason than they can just get them.

I can understand someone down and out after falling from grace using them and wants to get back on their feet but when you have multiple generations of single mothers and sloth-like men using them for a free meal ticket, you're going to meet a lot of problems head-on when the system starts to buckle.

Post: #8

There aren't enough good jobs anymore. Only if you're above-average with high skill, or lucky enough to get a government, union construction, or manufacturing job are you going to be able to be comfortable.

Getting by on a few part-time low wage service jobs for the rest.

But there's plenty of money in the economy judged by GDP per capita; it's just going to the top.

Post: #9

That leaves the entire universe of junk food, which is responsible in large measure for the U.S. obesity epidemic.

I call it the Deliberate Obesity Pandemic.

Here's something even more fucked up about this shit: here in hawaii, the most highly desired and sought after food is poke (pronounced "po-kay"). Raw fish (yellowfin tuna being the most popular) with various sauces/garnishes. It often goes for $16 - $22 a lbs. It's quite expensive and considered a treat. It's our favorite drinking food/party food/pupu. When people throw parties for special occasions like weddings, kid's 1st birthday etc., the host will usually spend hundreds of $$ just on the poke.

But due to SNAP federal guidelines for which you're not allowed to buy "prepared foods," you're supposed to be buying raw ingredients to go home and cook yourself....the grocery stores and fish mongers all get away with accepting EBT cards for poke purchases because it's "raw and uncooked meat, not heated or cooked on the premise," therefore eligible.

A total fucking scam.

Hard working poor folks not on EBT/SNAP? Can barely afford the occasional 1/2 lbs. of poke.

But the EBT folks? I literally see a line of welfare recipients buying 5 lbs. at a time and using their EBT cards to pay for it, while they use cash to buy their cases of Heineken and packs of generic cigarettes.

Post: #10

Heh, "benefits". Good intention, terrible outcome.

It'll never happen in my lifetime, but a solution would either be a minimum basic income for everyone (which would actually save money) or cutting all subsidies/welfare from corporate down to individual.

That's a pipe dream though.

Post: #11

RVF member on SNAP?

Buys steak, salad, coconut oil, apple cider vinegar, and baking soda with EBT card.

Post: #12

(08-19-2014 04:07 PM)DJ-Matt Wrote:  RVF member on SNAP?

Buys steak, salad and coconut oil with EBT card.

You forgot the apple cider vinegar...

Post: #13

(08-19-2014 04:07 PM)DJ-Matt Wrote:  Buys steak, salad and coconut oil with EBT card.

Post: #14

When I was unemployed earlier this year, with three mouths to feed, the first thing I did was get on food stamps so I wouldn't have to cut in to my savings; it made my job search a little easier. Food stamps helped get me on my feet again; a successful society is one which helps people going through hard times (and, of course, one where people do everything they can to contribute to society)

Post: #15

(08-19-2014 11:47 PM)placer Wrote:  When I was unemployed earlier this year, with three mouths to feed, the first thing I did was get on food stamps so I wouldn't have to cut in to my savings; it made my job search a little easier. Food stamps helped get me on my feet again; a successful society is one which helps people going through hard times (and, of course, one where people do everything they can to contribute to society)

That is what your savings are for though. Of course not everyone can save but that is one of the reasons for saving money, to prepare for the unexpected.

Unemployment once sent me into a fucking 99 week party binge. within 3 weeks of my benefits running out I had two 6 figure job offers. I still cant believe I got hooked on that shit like a drug..... sure was a fun time though.

A lot of social program recipients are actually victims... Especially life time recipients. Most people are capable of much more but their motivation is destroyed just like mine was.

Post: #16

While I was driving around LA, I kept getting mad by fucked up roads and disgusted by dirty streets. The property tax is higher there but where do they spend all their money and have huge deficits? social welfares?

Post: #17

In California they can be used at most fast food places, even pizza hut allows them (at least in LA county).

I remember at the subway on Sunset/Cherokee a few months back this crazy woman was trying to get a sub for free although had an EBT card and was going to pay for it that way.

In most places, this would be a huge deal. In Texas for example, there might be a massive boycott to all fast food establishments allowing the use of EBT.

California, people don't seem to care what the next person does, whether it's them using an EBT card or dressing up like Marilyn Manson. A self-centered society opposed to a groupthink society (most of the US) is actually much less annoying.

Post: #18

What should a man do?

I keep breaking my bad or say my brain but my high-school friends all hook up with Food Stamps and dropping babies like crazy are having a semi good time on my back and people like myself. Little by little I have been changing my opinion about being self sufficient and never to rely on uncle Sam. But it is becoming more difficult to keep the head above ground when I see the government does not encourage virtues that once where the center of American Culture.

One of this day I will go on fucking strike and collect all the beanies and start bringing babies from south of the border and collect welfare checks, and collect disability and travel the world. I went today to a Walt-Mart near by, I'm in Houston, TX, and is unbelievable the amount of babies some of these recipients keep dropping while I have to see a huge chunk of my salary go to pay for services I do not use and never will. It sucks!!!!!!!

Post: #19

(08-20-2014 12:40 AM)la_mode Wrote:  In California they can be used at most fast food places, even pizza hut allows them (at least in LA county).

That was not my experience; when I got food stamps, they were pretty strict about not having anything "hot" or "prepared", to the point that, when I tried to buy some bread for making Mexican style tortas (sandwiches), I couldn't buy them with my EBT card.

Forget about getting anything at a fast food joint.

Post: #20

Do people sell their EBT cards? Might be a good idea to buy with cash at discounted rate and use it for your grocery...

Post: #21

(08-20-2014 04:02 AM)placer Wrote:  

(08-20-2014 12:40 AM)la_mode Wrote:  In California they can be used at most fast food places, even pizza hut allows them (at least in LA county).

That was not my experience; when I got food stamps, they were pretty strict about not having anything "hot" or "prepared", to the point that, when I tried to buy some bread for making Mexican style tortas (sandwiches), I couldn't buy them with my EBT card.

Forget about getting anything at a fast food joint.

That used to be the case. Sometime in 2009 or 10 they started allowing EBT use on prepared foods. It seemed like a per state thing.

Post: #22

It makes me sick to see the numbers adding up for people who get foodstamps. Yeah, I get the idea...some people need help. But what about the oh-so-many Mexicans that need a TRANSLATOR to apply, the people so strung out on drugs that they spend their grocery money on drugs, and people driving nice new cars and talking on $600 phones? How is it fair to the elderly on SSI or disabled who can't work? I think they should make every adult applicant who is applying pay to take a drug screen. If it comes back positive then they are denied and lose the money they paid on the test. There should be a 2 child limit you could claim, because if you can't feed 2 then you need to get your stuff cut out and burned off.

When I was out of work and my husband was working 7 days a week keeping us afloat, we applied for temporary assistance. Of course we got turned down. But I bet if I had 2 or 3 kids and pregnant again I'd get approved...or if I didn't speak English. That's what is wrong with this country now. Giving handouts to immigrants and going broke because of it.

Post: #23

Stop causing conflict around the world, maybe stop wasting water on ice buckets and shove that ice down the throats of those who need foot stamps.

Post: #24

(08-20-2014 05:59 AM)joseph80 Wrote:  When I was out of work and my husband was working 7 days a week keeping us afloat, we applied for temporary assistance. Of course we got turned down. But I bet if I had 2 or 3 kids and pregnant again I'd get approved...or if I didn't speak English. That's what is wrong with this country now. Giving handouts to immigrants and going broke because of it.

Post: #25

(08-20-2014 07:56 AM)Cunnilinguist Wrote:  

(08-20-2014 05:59 AM)joseph80 Wrote:  When I was out of work and my husband was working 7 days a week keeping us afloat, we applied for temporary assistance. Of course we got turned down. But I bet if I had 2 or 3 kids and pregnant again I'd get approved...or if I didn't speak English. That's what is wrong with this country now. Giving handouts to immigrants and going broke because of it.

!!! We have a woman registered, mods DO SOMETHING!!!