Post: #1

So I'm in my early 20's and am trying to decide whether to start an e-commerce business in America (and market a physical product to Americans) or start a separate location-independent internet business (in southeast Asia or EE). It's a very difficult time to be young and in America as there are no easy answers, only highly calculated risks! I should mention that I have Euro citizenship so staying in Poland wouldn't be a big problem.

As an American, the future of our country is obviously looking very rough on many levels. We have extreme federal debt, the highest corporate tax rates in the world, a police state, a declining middle class, bitchy women, etc. While I KNOW this market of people very well, it's also a declining one. I want to start a business here in all honesty, but I just feel as if I'd be paying over 30% of my net income into a welfare state.

However I have a business idea that will work here in America (already validated it), but I would have to spend at least 2-5 years "on the ground" here busting my ass. This idea is highly scalable and would likely generate millions after quite some dedication.

Or I could travel the world while busting my ass on a different location independent business which would likely generate a smaller income - maybe mid five figures within a couple of years. It isn't as scalable, but allows much more freedom.

Sometimes I think being location independent is more valuable than the possibility of earning six figures because it provides freedom. So here's my question:

Would you rather start a business in America with the possibility of grossing millions after 5+ years?

Or enjoy worldwide location independence with a somewhat passive internet business that generates over $35,000/yr?

Post: #2

(08-04-2014 08:26 PM)stefpdt Wrote:  So I'm in my early 20's and am trying to decide whether to start an e-commerce business in America (and market a physical product to Americans) or start a separate location-independent internet business (in southeast Asia or EE). It's a very difficult time to be young and in America as there are no easy answers, only highly calculated risks! I should mention that I have Euro citizenship so staying in Poland wouldn't be a big problem.

As an American, the future of our country is obviously looking very rough on many levels. We have extreme federal debt, the highest corporate tax rates in the world, a police state, a declining middle class, bitchy women, etc. While I KNOW this market of people very well, it's also a declining one. I want to start a business here in all honesty, but I just feel as if I'd be paying over 30% of my net income into a welfare state.

However I have a business idea that will work here in America (already validated it), but I would have to spend at least 2-5 years "on the ground" here busting my ass. This idea is highly scalable and would likely generate millions after quite some dedication.

Or I could travel the world while busting my ass on a different location independent business which would likely generate a smaller income - maybe mid five figures within a couple of years. It isn't as scalable, but allows much more freedom.

Sometimes I think being location independent is more valuable than the possibility of earning six figures because it provides freedom. So here's my question:

Would you rather start a business in America with the possibility of grossing millions after 5+ years?

Or enjoy worldwide location independence with a somewhat passive internet business that generates over $35,000/yr?

In my opinion, go for the millions.

This is coming from someone who is reaping the hardships of growing up poor. There is a HUGE difference between a few millions and tens of thousands. After the business is up off the ground and you have some money saved up, you can start to travel and live freely, on a bigger budget as well. Particularly if you plan on having a family someday, $35,000 isn't much when you have a few hungry mouths to feed.

Post: #3

I also grew up in a very frugal family. I wouldn't say that we were poor, but I've always had to account down to each dollar if I wanted something.

While trying to make millions of dollars sounds like constant hardship and labor, it's actually the fight that we have to win if we want true freedom. For a few decades, at least. They say $5mm is the new $1mm.

I think true, hardcore entrepreneurship is just the process of getting ALL of the work of a lifetime finished upfront - rather than spreading it out throughout a lifetime. This will obviously still take anywhere from 5-15 years.

Lifestyle design/the 4-hour-workweek thing is still an awesome way to live in my opinion...but you run into the "coconut cash" conundrum. I.E. you get lazy.

Post: #4

An ecommerce business is location-independent unless you're doing the warehousing & shipping, in which case you'll need property.

Most companies that do ecommerce use 3PLs to store and ship everything for them.

As you grow you'll need marketers, graphic designers, laywers, etc. You can determine whether to hire a firm to do these or hire people and train them. In the former case you're still location-independent, in the former you'll need an office.

It all depends on hands-on you want to be, how talented you are & how much of the margin you want to keep for yourself or hire others.

Post: #5

(08-04-2014 08:26 PM)stefpdt Wrote:  So I'm in my early 20's and am trying to decide whether to start an e-commerce business in America (and market a physical product to Americans) or start a separate location-independent internet business (in southeast Asia or EE). It's a very difficult time to be young and in America as there are no easy answers, only highly calculated risks! I should mention that I have Euro citizenship so staying in Poland wouldn't be a big problem.

As an American, the future of our country is obviously looking very rough on many levels. We have extreme federal debt, the highest corporate tax rates in the world, a police state, a declining middle class, bitchy women, etc. While I KNOW this market of people very well, it's also a declining one. I want to start a business here in all honesty, but I just feel as if I'd be paying over 30% of my net income into a welfare state.

However I have a business idea that will work here in America (already validated it), but I would have to spend at least 2-5 years "on the ground" here busting my ass. This idea is highly scalable and would likely generate millions after quite some dedication.

Or I could travel the world while busting my ass on a different location independent business which would likely generate a smaller income - maybe mid five figures within a couple of years. It isn't as scalable, but allows much more freedom.

Sometimes I think being location independent is more valuable than the possibility of earning six figures because it provides freedom. So here's my question:

Would you rather start a business in America with the possibility of grossing millions after 5+ years?

Or enjoy worldwide location independence with a somewhat passive internet business that generates over $35,000/yr?

I guess I don't understand why you capped yourself at a small wage just because you are doing it online.

If you can't create a scaleable business online you shouldn't be in business.

Post: #6

(08-04-2014 10:05 PM)monster Wrote:  An ecommerce business is location-independent unless you're doing the warehousing & shipping, in which case you'll need property.

Most companies that do ecommerce use 3PLs to store and ship everything for them.

As you grow you'll need marketers, graphic designers, laywers, etc. You can determine whether to hire a firm to do these or hire people and train them. In the former case you're still location-independent, in the former you'll need an office.

It all depends on hands-on you want to be, how talented you are & how much of the margin you want to keep for yourself or hire others.

You make a very good point. I just figured that if I'm going to do something then I want to go all in. Living near my target market (USA) would maximize my business' potential through some "on the ground" work...even though it would be an ecommerce business. Promoting at festivals, sponsoring events, etc.

But now that I think about it, I think you're right that an ecommerce biz doesn't exactly NEED to have a permanent location with use of a 3PL.

Post: #7

(08-04-2014 10:09 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(08-04-2014 08:26 PM)stefpdt Wrote:  So I'm in my early 20's and am trying to decide whether to start an e-commerce business in America (and market a physical product to Americans) or start a separate location-independent internet business (in southeast Asia or EE). It's a very difficult time to be young and in America as there are no easy answers, only highly calculated risks! I should mention that I have Euro citizenship so staying in Poland wouldn't be a big problem.

As an American, the future of our country is obviously looking very rough on many levels. We have extreme federal debt, the highest corporate tax rates in the world, a police state, a declining middle class, bitchy women, etc. While I KNOW this market of people very well, it's also a declining one. I want to start a business here in all honesty, but I just feel as if I'd be paying over 30% of my net income into a welfare state.

However I have a business idea that will work here in America (already validated it), but I would have to spend at least 2-5 years "on the ground" here busting my ass. This idea is highly scalable and would likely generate millions after quite some dedication.

Or I could travel the world while busting my ass on a different location independent business which would likely generate a smaller income - maybe mid five figures within a couple of years. It isn't as scalable, but allows much more freedom.

Sometimes I think being location independent is more valuable than the possibility of earning six figures because it provides freedom. So here's my question:

Would you rather start a business in America with the possibility of grossing millions after 5+ years?

Or enjoy worldwide location independence with a somewhat passive internet business that generates over $35,000/yr?

I guess I don't understand why you capped yourself at a small wage just because you are doing it online.

If you can't create a scaleable business online you shouldn't be in business.

I didn't mean to cap myself. I'm just being completely realistic for my current situation. I'm choosing between an ecommerce business that is HIGHLY scalable and a separate location-independent internet business which has a niche market. There are definitely many other ways for myself to earn income online.

But I don't like to multitask hence why I'm "choosing." I could live off of either income. I want to pick one and go all in.

Post: #8

(08-04-2014 10:20 PM)stefpdt Wrote:  I didn't mean to cap myself. I'm just being completely realistic for my current situation. I'm choosing between an ecommerce business that is HIGHLY scalable and a separate location-independent internet business which has a niche market. There are definitely many other ways for myself to earn income online.

But I don't like to multitask hence why I'm "choosing." I could live off of either income. I want to pick one and go all in.

You are able to access people all over the world via the internet.

So why would you not be able to scale up an internet based business? I don't think you are being realistic in your scenario which is why I asked. If you want to be location independent and your current business plan doesn't allow it, just change your plan to something else. You are obviously open to working online and no one will force you to work a market that has little potential online.

If you are going to sell something online, just sell something a lot of people want. The process of selling will be the same. Nail down the sales funnel, know your lifetime customer value and then turn on as much traffic as you can get. There isn't anything more scaleable in my opinion.

Post: #9

Fellow American here. I’ve started a business in Korea, getting ready to launch a second, and I would still encourage you to do it in the US.

For all the shit we give the US on these boards, especially about our bitchy and unfeminine women, it’s still one of the best places on Earth to start and operate a business.

So let me argue each of your points:

1. You mentioned that it’s very difficult to be young and in America. While there is definitely truth to this statement, it doesn’t seem to really apply in your case, does it? You have a business idea that could pay off in millions after 2-5 years on the ground, you say? Well, then perhaps your youth and being in America aren’t such limiting factors after all.

2. You mention a declining market. Which market are you talking about? The US economy is actually growing. It is NOT declining. It is in the middle of a transformative shift that is reallocating resources differently than what we are used to, which makes a lot of people and companies uneasy, but it's still very much open for business and welcoming of new ones.

3. The tax issue has been talked about a lot on these boards. Suffice it to say, as an American citizen, you will be taxed no matter where in the world you are. If you get to make millions one day, I'd consider this a very GOOD problem to have to deal with.

4. You mention freedom as something important to you, which is why the draw of building a location independent business is so strong. But wouldn’t you agree that grossing millions after 5+ years and then calling it quits offers you more real freedom than busting your ass year after year indefinitely for $35k?

Now, some questions for you:

A. If you stay in the US to build this, what's your financial situation going to look like? What are you going to do about income/rent while you're building this?

B. If you go abroad, how will you support yourself?

When you boil everything down to its core, your question reads to me as:

"Should I choose a path that MAY make me 35K after a few years? Or one that MAY bring me millions after a few years?"

Swing for the fences. Make your millions and get out and enjoy real freedom.

Post: #10

Why not establish the online business that will make you $2-3k/month asap, then get your ass over to Ho Chi Minh City, China, or another hotbed of mobile entrepreneurialism and work on the concept that will make the big bucks? Sounds like you have two specific ideas in mind, and that's great, but there are many more possibilities out there.

Post: #11

Count yourself fortunate that you are already ahead of most people in your age group, and have these two options available in the first place.

2-5 years is not a long time, if you are really able to start up a company worth millions in that time, then I say go for it. Especially as you are in your early 20s, screw this whole "forever young" mantra, that our generation sings in clubs, we aren't forever young, building empires takes years of hard work, but its the adventure and mission in the first place that keeps us alive.

Is there anyway you can do both, it may take longer work in the process, with learning a new language going to a foreign country, but people have done it before. I don't wish to go into too much detail with my plans, however I am actually facing a very similar situation to you, feel free to PM me.

Post: #12

(08-07-2014 04:36 AM)GyopoPlayboy Wrote:  Fellow American here. I’ve started a business in Korea, getting ready to launch a second, and I would still encourage you to do it in the US.

For all the shit we give the US on these boards, especially about our bitchy and unfeminine women, it’s still one of the best places on Earth to start and operate a business.

So let me argue each of your points:

1. You mentioned that it’s very difficult to be young and in America. While there is definitely truth to this statement, it doesn’t seem to really apply in your case, does it? You have a business idea that could pay off in millions after 2-5 years on the ground, you say? Well, then perhaps your youth and being in America aren’t such limiting factors after all.

2. You mention a declining market. Which market are you talking about? The US economy is actually growing. It is NOT declining. It is in the middle of a transformative shift that is reallocating resources differently than what we are used to, which makes a lot of people and companies uneasy, but it's still very much open for business and welcoming of new ones.

3. The tax issue has been talked about a lot on these boards. Suffice it to say, as an American citizen, you will be taxed no matter where in the world you are. If you get to make millions one day, I'd consider this a very GOOD problem to have to deal with.

4. You mention freedom as something important to you, which is why the draw of building a location independent business is so strong. But wouldn’t you agree that grossing millions after 5+ years and then calling it quits offers you more real freedom than busting your ass year after year indefinitely for $35k?

Now, some questions for you:

A. If you stay in the US to build this, what's your financial situation going to look like? What are you going to do about income/rent while you're building this?

B. If you go abroad, how will you support yourself?

When you boil everything down to its core, your question reads to me as:

"Should I choose a path that MAY make me 35K after a few years? Or one that MAY bring me millions after a few years?"

Swing for the fences. Make your millions and get out and enjoy real freedom.

Very good reply, thank you for it.

As for your questions:

A. I'd be bootstrapping the US business but I have access to good investors who trust me. Side income/rent will be minimized to the extreme as I live in a US state with the cheapest cost of living possible.

B. I can make shit happen if I have to man. I could explain in detail how but I'll just assure you that I'm vigilant with business and landed an internship with the best startup business at my university last year.

And yes, you're right that both situations are somewhat hypothetical. But I have validated the particular US market that I'm interested in, and it's completely unsaturated. Just waiting for competition to swoop in.

Thanks again for making the point that swinging for the fences is key. You're absolutely right. Point #4 which you made really summed things up.

Post: #13

(08-07-2014 05:08 AM)RawGod Wrote:  Why not establish the online business that will make you $2-3k/month asap, then get your ass over to Ho Chi Minh City, China, or another hotbed of mobile entrepreneurialism and work on the concept that will make the big bucks? Sounds like you have two specific ideas in mind, and that's great, but there are many more possibilities out there.

The big bucks is really only viable in the US. It's an ecommerce opportunity that I'm 90% sure I'd have to startup in America due to shipping costs. Unless I can work a dropshipping deal in the near future - then I could hit up HCMC. Trust me, HCMC has been on my radar for a while.

(08-07-2014 05:41 AM)Constitution45 Wrote:  Count yourself fortunate that you are already ahead of most people in your age group, and have these two options available in the first place.

2-5 years is not a long time, if you are really able to start up a company worth millions in that time, then I say go for it. Especially as you are in your early 20s, screw this whole "forever young" mantra, that our generation sings in clubs, we aren't forever young, building empires takes years of hard work, but its the adventure and mission in the first place that keeps us alive.

Is there anyway you can do both, it may take longer work in the process, with learning a new language going to a foreign country, but people have done it before. I don't wish to go into too much detail with my plans, however I am actually facing a very similar situation to you, feel free to PM me.

I completely agree with ditching the forever young thing. Most people our age waste themselves away getting hammered every night. I have no problems with partying...but only to really celebrate our accomplishments!

I appreciate your thoughts. And I'll shoot you a PM a little later tonight. I may actually be able to do both, yes. It would just be a little bit extreme. But yeah it's insanely tough to be young and justify starting a business in America because there are so many other emerging markets. But at the same time, it could really pay off because so many other people are discouraged because > higher barriers to entry US markets > less competition = better odds for us to capitalize.

Post: #14

(08-04-2014 08:26 PM)stefpdt Wrote:  So I'm in my early 20's and am trying to decide whether to start an e-commerce business in America (and market a physical product to Americans) or start a separate location-independent internet business (in southeast Asia or EE). It's a very difficult time to be young and in America as there are no easy answers, only highly calculated risks! I should mention that I have Euro citizenship so staying in Poland wouldn't be a big problem.

As an American, the future of our country is obviously looking very rough on many levels. We have extreme federal debt, the highest corporate tax rates in the world, a police state, a declining middle class, bitchy women, etc. While I KNOW this market of people very well, it's also a declining one. I want to start a business here in all honesty, but I just feel as if I'd be paying over 30% of my net income into a welfare state.

However I have a business idea that will work here in America (already validated it), but I would have to spend at least 2-5 years "on the ground" here busting my ass. This idea is highly scalable and would likely generate millions after quite some dedication.

Or I could travel the world while busting my ass on a different location independent business which would likely generate a smaller income - maybe mid five figures within a couple of years. It isn't as scalable, but allows much more freedom.

Sometimes I think being location independent is more valuable than the possibility of earning six figures because it provides freedom. So here's my question:

Would you rather start a business in America with the possibility of grossing millions after 5+ years?

Or enjoy worldwide location independence with a somewhat passive internet business that generates over $35,000/yr?

Personally, i think you'd be better off being location independent and enjoying the world. $35,000/yr may not sound like alot but its goes a LONG way in EE/Asia. The US also basically bankrupt.. who knows when it will default (it will eventually) on its ridiculous debt and when it does, your US business idea will go down with it. Keep your investments outside of the US/Western Europe and you should be okay.

Post: #15

If you have a shot at a multimillion dollar business in five years, why would you go for the low hanging fruit of 35k? Sounds like a no-brainer to me.

I can't see an argument for the alternative, considering you are in your early 20s.