Post: #1

I was from Vietnam, was smart enough to got a full ride to one of US top liberal arts college, and wasted it studying, well, liberal arts.

While it gives me a very good sense of critical thinking and knowledge, a BA in Sociology doesnt do you shit if you ever want to make a decent living.

Now Im currently in Paris for a Master degree, also in Sociology (in France if u wanna change your study field u have to start over) Being a student in France is the best thing in the world.

I thought I cant stand the corporate world, but now Im doing an internship in one of the most prestigious corporation and frankly its not wonderful, but its bearable, and the $ is good. I quickly realize that being a freelancer/researcher with more autonomy will never quite match this level of income.

But with my degree I have very little chance of entering the corporate world.

I stand now at a crossroad:

1. I could choose to finish my Master in Sociology and spend the next few years trying to find a job with it and see how it goes. IF I do find a job I will make a decent living, though nowhere near the corporate level. Maybe take a gap year or two to travel

2. I apply to one of the biggest business school in Europe (think ESCP and the like) ASAP, take a shit load of loans and 2-3 more years of study. Higher chance of finding good corporate job with good $ to support my game and lifestyle, but has to endure the corporate slave world.

I need to make my decision based on what I want out of life. To have enough $ to support my lifestyle Im looking at 2000 euros a month with appreciating income over the years. And I want enough freedom, which a corporate job will never afford. But somehow having $ offers you another kind of freedom.

I have absolutely no intention of going back to Vietnam atm, maybe much later

Would appreciate some advice on my situation, and also some alternatives to my dilemna.

Post: #2

You could do professional qualifications in the field you choose.

Say you want to go into marketing.. then do a CIMA course
or accounting... do an ACCA
or HR, do a CIPD

whatever field you choose, you can do a professional qualification in a shorter time, put it on your CV with your degree and some experience and bob's your uncle... so you might as well finish the MA just to inflate your resume

I know you are from Vietnam, went to the USA and now in France, but here is a list of UK professional qualifications https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profession...ed_Kingdom usually the barrier to entry is zero, or a degree in any field. For the highest recognized professional qualifications, you may need a specific degree, but you can start at a lower entry qualification within the same organization, then progress on from there

Post: #3

I second the professional qualification/designation suggestion. That's the route I'll be taking, as I will also be graduating with a liberal arts BA. They're cheaper than an MA, and self study suits my learning style much more. Plus, in my field, they are just as (or even more) respected than an MA.

Bright side is you don't need relevant degrees if you are capable, can sell yourself well, and catch the eye of the right people. So worry about that more than what you should study next.

Post: #4

(07-31-2014 04:33 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  I was from Vietnam, was smart enough to got a full ride to one of US top liberal arts college, and wasted it studying, well, liberal arts.

While it gives me a very good sense of critical thinking and knowledge, a BA in Sociology doesnt do you shit if you ever want to make a decent living.

Now Im currently in Paris for a Master degree, also in Sociology (in France if u wanna change your study field u have to start over) Being a student in France is the best thing in the world.

I thought I cant stand the corporate world, but now Im doing an internship in one of the most prestigious corporation and frankly its not wonderful, but its bearable, and the $ is good. I quickly realize that being a freelancer/researcher with more autonomy will never quite match this level of income.

But with my degree I have very little chance of entering the corporate world.

I stand now at a crossroad:

1. I could choose to finish my Master in Sociology and spend the next few years trying to find a job with it and see how it goes. IF I do find a job I will make a decent living, though nowhere near the corporate level. Maybe take a gap year or two to travel

2. I apply to one of the biggest business school in Europe (think ESCP and the like) ASAP, take a shit load of loans and 2-3 more years of study. Higher chance of finding good corporate job with good $ to support my game and lifestyle, but has to endure the corporate slave world.

I need to make my decision based on what I want out of life. To have enough $ to support my lifestyle Im looking at 2000 euros a month with appreciating income over the years. And I want enough freedom, which a corporate job will never afford. But somehow having $ offers you another kind of freedom.

I have absolutely no intention of going back to Vietnam atm, maybe much later

Would appreciate some advice on my situation, and also some alternatives to my dilemna.

An MA is Sociology will provide you with little job prospects. However, if this is your passion then you should consider doing a PHD which could lead to an academic career. You won't get rich, but an academic career has a lot of perks: time off, manageable work schedule, and nothing beats the university setting in my opinion. If sociology is your passion this is a viable route. It doesn't sound like you want to work in the corporate world. I wouldn't take out loans for a degree in business if you are that unsure.

Post: #5

What is the logic behind doing a further graduate degree in a fairly marginal subject in a country like France? I mean, look at the big picture. It's like you compounded the first mistake. Maybe I'm biased, but if you want to go corporate, this is not the way to go. I do like the profession accreditation idea.

Post: #6

Get the MA in sociology and an MBA with a marketing focus.

What's your citizenship now?

Post: #7

I think the professional accreditation is a great idea. Doesnt take that long and costly, while still offer some mobility.

Lots of people in Sociology goes into marketing and communication, so yeah Im looking at that too.

I knew I shouldnt have continued with a MA in Sociology, but more or less this MA feels like a gap year to me. In France you cannot change cursus, so I could only apply to a Soc MA. Im at the Sorbonne, the best public uni in France and maybe Europe (though its losing prestige compared to private institutions) and it cost 400 euros a year for education... less than you pay for rent a month. Ive always been the brilliant kid (top 5%) so I basically cruise through my MA. Most of my time is spent on socializing, dancing, practicing martial arts and learning game.

If I think of it as 2 gap years then its not wasted at all, since I get to do what most gap year people do and more, while still getting an MA. It was this year that I took the most transformational steps to become redpill.

Citizenship is a big deal. Im still a Viet citizen which is a huge bummer. But I wasnt staying one minute longer in USA after graduation (I was dying to travel, thanks RVF), not to mention US naturalization takes forever.

If I find a job in France I can get citizenship after 4 years of professional visa status.

Post: #8

^^ Ok, that makes more sense now that you mention citizenship. In that respect, you definitely did the right thing by going to EU (not sure about France still but hey), because it is a long ass road to get citizenship in the US. Sorbonne is definitely elite.

Post: #9

btw is your MA Soc in French or English?

I know that a lot of EU degrees are offered in English, despite it not being the native language of the country the degree is undertaken.

Post: #10

Network like a motherfucker.

Post: #11

If you want to go to a business school in france you won't necessary need to take a loan. As you have a bachelor degree you can get the master in two years.

You can do apprenticeship track where it is basically two months school/two months works. You need to find a company to hire you and then they will pay the school fees and you are paid each months between 1000/1500€ even the months when you are in class.

Post: #12

Two things.

1. I believe that Vietnamese citizenship will be worth more than most western citizenship's within the next two decades. I also think repatriation will be easier in the near future because those current laws are ridiculous.

2. The lifestyle you want is easily attainable without entering the corporate world or even furthering your education within academia. Never compromise decisions that affect your life in a major way.


Also. Concerning US naturalization, you can always marry a fatty to streamline the process.

Post: #13

(08-01-2014 05:34 PM)Mac Chicken Wrote:  If you want to go to a business school in france you won't necessary need to take a loan. As you have a bachelor degree you can get the master in two years.

You can do apprenticeship track where it is basically two months school/two months works. You need to find a company to hire you and then they will pay the school fees and you are paid each months between 1000/1500€ even the months when you are in class.

do you have a link about this?

Post: #14

(08-01-2014 08:53 PM)2014 Wrote:  

(08-01-2014 05:34 PM)Mac Chicken Wrote:  If you want to go to a business school in france you won't necessary need to take a loan. As you have a bachelor degree you can get the master in two years.

You can do apprenticeship track where it is basically two months school/two months works. You need to find a company to hire you and then they will pay the school fees and you are paid each months between 1000/1500€ even the months when you are in class.

do you have a link about this?

http://www.tbs-education.fr/fr/formation...rentissage

You can find it on all the website of the french business school. However, it is only in french.

Post: #15

Mac Chicken thanks, I was actually thinking about doing a Master with apprenticeship at ESCP Paris. Once done I'm likely to get a job.

Thing is, its not about the degree to get itself, its the life orientation. I've been working corporate for 2 months and I reallize that this is not the lifestyle I ideally want. Now granted, not everyone can get their dream job, I can do just fine in corporate but the lifestyle will kill my game and my self development.

I did sociology bc I once wanted to do academia, then I realize the job prospect is even worse. For every job opening there are 13 phd in US. In france it's similar. And the job is actually not lighter than in corporate, only upside its that you have no (literal) boss.

All in all I want something that would give me freedom and flexibility, something location independent. Granted, maybe an additional MBA or professional qualification will be always useful. Im fluent in both French and English btw. Trilingual.

Im a dedicated martial artist and avid salsa dancers. I thought about becoming professional to teach and make $, but lots of people warned me about turning your hobby into your full time job: you will have to deal with the bad and the ugly. Much better to do a run of the mill job and keep your hobbies on the side. So I guess if I go get an MBA Im going down that road.

I kinda miss school. Im still a master student and life is wonderful with tons of opportunity for self-improvement, except that you are on a tight purse.

Looking back, my Sociology BA was personally very valuable to me. When you are reading articles on ROK about culture and gender dynamics it's sociology, without the bullshit ofc. But I realized that the liberal arts are for the rich or for those who dont have to be concerned with making a living. Historically its always the nobility or the well off who studied that sort of things.

Post: #16

Path of least resistance seems to be to just finish your Sociology MA.
Then, since you want to work in the corporate world, get your MBA.
Having the MA sociology degree besides your MBA is not going to hurt you and in fact may well set you apart in a positive way.