Post: #51

(07-24-2014 06:49 AM)Fisto Wrote:  Do we have a battle of wits going on here? You know Sp5 is a Sicilian...

Nah. Sp5 has been around long enough to know the score. Moving abroad merely for the sake of moving abroad seems senseless. Moving abroad to make some kind of progress in life impossible where you are makes perfect sense. If you are in McQueen-hell working at Wendy's and fucking 5s, by all means rush to Korea and teach English. I did. But, if you are comfortable, in a decent job, with a decent social circle--which I concede most people aren't--there's a good chance your standard of living will decline if you up and move to, say, China or Burma.

Here's a secret, not all American women are your enemies. I've met several really tuned in women, both attractive and unattractive, here. I spend months a year in Vegas, I've seen 9s in XS buying their own drinks and strippers who refinish vintage furniture as a hobby. I don't know about in Asia because even though I lived there, I was never strong enough in the language to be fully culturally competent or intuitive enough to fully know what was going on. Unless you're from an ethnic family, until you've lived in a country for a few years, you are at best Charisma Man.

'baller

Post: #52

For as long as I can remember I've wanted to leave I used to dream about it when I was a kid. Expatriation is something I'm excited about. I plan on doing a year abroad in school so I'll get a bit of experience living in a foreign country.

Post: #53

Yeah the main thing that I wish people prepared me for was the discrimination and the massive bureaucratic fuck around when you want to register yourself, get a tax car / bank account and then start work.

Everything else I could handle. But that's probably because I am very social and I drink a lot.

Post: #54

(07-24-2014 04:14 AM)lowbudgetballer Wrote:  

(07-24-2014 01:20 AM)weambulance Wrote:  

(07-24-2014 12:39 AM)Jaydublin Wrote:  I disagree... get out and get some world experience. What sort of life is living in some small city inside your comfort zone?

Judging by the people I grew up with, you can then safely feel like an expert on every subject and dismiss what people who Went Out Into The World have to say about anything.

...There's a reason I don't keep in touch with any of the tards I went to high school with.

Who had it better in The Deer Hunter: the guys in Vietnam--De Niro, the Russian Rouletter, the guy who lost his legs and was in the military hospital--or the guy who never left Clairton?

'baller

'baller

Who had it better, my friend who was killed by a sniper in Baghdad, or my friend who stayed home and drowned in a river in a state park?

There are no guarantees in life. Of the people I personally know, I have lead one of the riskiest lifestyles. Probably #2; my buddy Shane has me handily beat. I specifically enlisted in the infantry to go fight in a war and saw plenty of combat. I ride motorcycles all the time. I regularly go off into the Alaskan bush by myself. I could keep listing things, but I have had many very close calls in my life. Yet here I am, healthy and whole. Meanwhile every few months I hear about another kid I was in school with who played it safe and is now dead.

If people want to stay home, fine. Whatever, if they're happy then more power to them. But, if you never left the shire, don't act like you know more about what's past the damn farm than I do.

Post: #55

(07-24-2014 02:48 PM)Coldfire Wrote:  I plan on doing a year abroad in school so I'll get a bit of experience living in a foreign country.

I wish I had been smart enough to have done that.

'baller

Post: #56

(07-24-2014 03:00 PM)spalex Wrote:  Yeah the main thing that I wish people prepared me for was the discrimination and the massive bureaucratic fuck around when you want to register yourself, get a tax car / bank account and then start work.

I notice you didn't mention credit cards.

'baller

Post: #57

(07-24-2014 03:05 PM)weambulance Wrote:  

(07-24-2014 04:14 AM)lowbudgetballer Wrote:  

(07-24-2014 01:20 AM)weambulance Wrote:  

(07-24-2014 12:39 AM)Jaydublin Wrote:  I disagree... get out and get some world experience. What sort of life is living in some small city inside your comfort zone?

Judging by the people I grew up with, you can then safely feel like an expert on every subject and dismiss what people who Went Out Into The World have to say about anything.

...There's a reason I don't keep in touch with any of the tards I went to high school with.

Who had it better in The Deer Hunter: the guys in Vietnam--De Niro, the Russian Rouletter, the guy who lost his legs and was in the military hospital--or the guy who never left Clairton?

'baller

'baller

Who had it better, my friend who was killed by a sniper in Baghdad, or my friend who stayed home and drowned in a river in a state park?

There are no guarantees in life. Of the people I personally know, I have lead one of the riskiest lifestyles. Probably #2; my buddy Shane has me handily beat. I specifically enlisted in the infantry to go fight in a war and saw plenty of combat. I ride motorcycles all the time. I regularly go off into the Alaskan bush by myself. I could keep listing things, but I have had many very close calls in my life. Yet here I am, healthy and whole. Meanwhile every few months I hear about another kid I was in school with who played it safe and is now dead.

If people want to stay home, fine. Whatever, if they're happy then more power to them. But, if you never left the shire, don't act like you know more about what's past the damn farm than I do.

You are quite the Hemingway.

'baller

Post: #58

My findings-
Friends- I come from London and moved to rural USA. I have 3 really good friends back home. I initially didn't click with people. I didn't enjoy their company, their jokes were terrible. I was trying to find carbon copies of my friendship group back home which was my mistake. You have to learn to accept the people what they are and work hard to find people who are similar to you or you'll just be alone for most of the time. Luckily I managed to do to this but it took a good 3 months.

City- you come from a vibrant city so anywhere else except for perhaps London will be a step down. I went from one extreme to another and I'm telling you you will get bored. The good thing is, with the big city flavour, style and overall swag us city boys have you'll have status. I was 'the man' and everyone wanted me around so I got invited to a lot of events I may not have if I was in London.

Time stays still- I'm currently back in London and whilst it's my city I don't miss being here. Everything is exactly the same. People are still doing the same old shit and talking about the same old rubbish they were talking years ago. You develop a lot as a person when you are away and just realise you can't be around the old lifestyle anymore. I find myself looking at my friends and thinking 'aren't you bored of the same old routine' but we can't all be ambitious.

Post: #59

(07-24-2014 03:10 PM)lowbudgetballer Wrote:  You are quite the Hemingway.

'baller

Yeah, I'm kind of a big deal.

Post: #60

(07-24-2014 03:00 PM)spalex Wrote:  Yeah the main thing that I wish people prepared me for was the discrimination and the massive bureaucratic fuck around when you want to register yourself, get a tax car / bank account and then start work.

Everything else I could handle. But that's probably because I am very social and I drink a lot.

I think the "discrimination" thing depends on the country and your situation. In some places being an expat is almost like being royalty. On the other hand, if by discrimination you are referring to never being able to completely become part of the local society then yeah, but so what? That is part of the point of leaving, you don't have to worry about keeping up with the Joneses because you don't even understand the local society enough to have reason to care.

And finally for non-whites leaving America maybe the discrimination thing is not as relevant. I have heard of African-Americans who move to China and feel that people treat them fairer than in America so it all depends. I think America can be a really race conscious place whereas other places don't have the same history/politics and so local people, while naive about race issues, don't have as much bent up anger. So again, I think the discrimination angle depends and is not always a negative of moving abroad.

Post: #61

There is so much shit in Germany I have to handle with on a daily basis it is not even a joke.I cannot believe how these people live and enjoy life such brutality sometimes.But Germans are unique folks aren't they.Anyway I cannot understand.

Post: #62

(07-24-2014 02:22 PM)lowbudgetballer Wrote:  Here's a secret, not all American women are your enemies. I've met several really tuned in women, both attractive and unattractive, here. I spend months a year in Vegas, I've seen 9s in XS buying their own drinks and strippers who refinish vintage furniture as a hobby.

Being tuned in doesn't necessarily make for good relationship material. They may have a "good" head on their shoulder and talk a good game when it comes to traditional values but when you get in too deep it becomes another story. I think American values and to a great extent modern anglosphere values inherently distorts gender relationships. It taints and corrupts everything it touches. You may find a few needles in haystacks but by and large it's like gambling in a casino, you will give up all your winnings eventually.

Post: #63

The aim of this thread wasn't to bring negativity or analyze America's culture. There are plenty of other places to do that in.

Post: #64

(07-24-2014 03:24 PM)Jsprint Wrote:  My findings-
Friends- I come from London and moved to rural USA. I have 3 really good friends back home. I initially didn't click with people. I didn't enjoy their company, their jokes were terrible.

Wait wait wait...

You're a brit, and you're complaining about American humor? Whoops, I mean humour?

Post: #65

(07-24-2014 04:14 AM)lowbudgetballer Wrote:  

(07-24-2014 01:20 AM)weambulance Wrote:  

(07-24-2014 12:39 AM)Jaydublin Wrote:  I disagree... get out and get some world experience. What sort of life is living in some small city inside your comfort zone?

Judging by the people I grew up with, you can then safely feel like an expert on every subject and dismiss what people who Went Out Into The World have to say about anything.

...There's a reason I don't keep in touch with any of the tards I went to high school with.

Who had it better in The Deer Hunter: the guys in Vietnam--De Niro, the Russian Rouletter, the guy who lost his legs and was in the military hospital--or the guy who never left Clairton?

'baller

'baller

I am a bit confused. First, I will admit I have not seen Deer Hunter but from what you said it sounds like you are comparing the life of soldiers who went to fight in an absolutely horrific war to the guy who stayed home.

So fighting in the Vietnam War is similar to expatriation?

Post: #66

(07-24-2014 12:34 PM)Constitution45 Wrote:  I recommend ex pat life, although its not for everyone. It has to be said that a large chunk of men in the West, are more suited for the countries in the East, due to the toxic conditions set for masculinity. Intellectual guys with morals, or those who have a drive to succeed, will probably find it a hell lot easier to do so in Asia or SA.

Possible, I'd like to believe that this is true, because it would mean good things for me.

Quote:When I was growing up, I always felt out of place because I didn't subscribe to the whole celebrity obsessed culture and I didn't go out like some Joey Essex styled clown. Although living abroad and having relationships, achieving my goals, really made me realise that its actually them who have the problem, not me. Having that realisation made it a lot more easier to get on with life and go for my goals. Life became a lot more deeper and actually had some meaning, rather than this narrative everyone else holds on to back at home, "Be popular, get a comfortable job, get a mediocre wife".

I lived this. I didn't understand the motivations of my classmates. Now that I'm older, I understand them better, but what made me different was that I always set my sights higher.

That's why the popularity game I experienced in high school didn't make sense to me. I didn't realize that to my classmates, there was nothing at the time that was more important than high school. To me, I was always dreaming about the future, so I had no interest in investing into being the coolest high school student.

Quote:In some cases it genuinely is the "grass is greener" on the other side scenario. However I believe there are locations in the world which are far more healthy for your soul and mental state. If was a EE man or woman, I would probably immigrate to London and start a new life. Money will be easy to come by and being from a traditional country, they don't appreciate the positives that come along with that, their character has probably already been healthily rounded.

This is so true.

Quote:Positives:

- Sense of adventure, you really will have this raw feeling added to your life, which becomes addicted.

This is the biggest thing for me, at least on a day to day basis. To walk out more door and to know that I'm living the dream, right now, living in a massive world class city, seeing it all happen, being a part of it. It's rugged, too. It isn't easy, so success is that much sweeter.

Quote:- Better quality of life, money goes a long way in a lot of other countries.

Potentially, yes, provided you don't have a sucky salary.

Quote:- Women, this is one of the biggest positives, before I envisioned my life as begin this nihilistic player who will just grow old hating women. Being with traditional women who are actually nice people and value relationships with you as a man, just blew my mind.

This is big for me too. I can't get far enough away from bitchy, entitled Western women. They are horrible.

(07-24-2014 02:22 PM)lowbudgetballer Wrote:  If you are in McQueen-hell working at Wendy's and fucking 5s, by all means rush to Korea and teach English. I did. But, if you are comfortable, in a decent job, with a decent social circle--which I concede most people aren't--there's a good chance your standard of living will decline if you up and move to, say, China or Burma.

Completely true.

Quote:Here's a secret, not all American women are your enemies. I've met several really tuned in women, both attractive and unattractive, here. I spend months a year in Vegas, I've seen 9s in XS buying their own drinks and strippers who refinish vintage furniture as a hobby. I don't know about in Asia because even though I lived there, I was never strong enough in the language to be fully culturally competent or intuitive enough to fully know what was going on. Unless you're from an ethnic family, until you've lived in a country for a few years, you are at best Charisma Man.

Excellent point. Not stated enough here.

Post: #67

This is for Jay Dublin. You may have gotten lost because I'm referring to something which is as far as I know a very specific American phenomenon. My first post mentioned the rustbelt. There's an Anthony Bourdain episode about the rustbelt. It was a set of prosperous American cities on the East Coast and Midwest, featuring strong industry like steel mills in Pennsylvania or automobile plants in Detroit. All of the businesses were staffed by union members with full benefits, pensions, making great wages. Think of Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino. I essentially view Gran Torino as an economic tale because if Clint Eastwood was one of those Hmong kids in 2k, he would never be able to maintain that standard of living, modify his car on the factory line, etc. Our friend MajorStyles expounded upon this concept on the ROK site.

http://www.returnofkings.com/37502/the-a...-nightmare

These days, the kind of bank the American middle class regularly made in those days is usually reserved for small percentage as opposed to a large percentage of the workforce: in the old days, every worker on the shop floor had a high standard living, while now it is reserved for people like factory owners in China--the ones who have to Buddhist priests on hand to keep the factory workers from committing suicide--maybe stockbrokers, ceos, higher management types. The people who actually do the work in the economy make the least while the people at top just skim off of them.

I am originally from the rustbelt, roughly near Clairton, the area where the American sections of the Deer Hunter took place. My father told me in his day, when you graduated school, you put your application in at one of the steel mills in the town and within a week or two, you would have a job which would set you up well: house, 5 kids, pension, full benefits, 3 cars, good vacations, expensive hobbies, etc. I had a great-uncle who was recruited into a steel mill after graduating from eight grade. He lived the American dream working for a high wage and getting a pension benefits until he died in his 80s. When I was a kid, they were buying out workers in their 30s with $200k and full pensions.

So, the reason I mentioned the Deer Hunter is because I would have liked to have had one of these jobs and never had to go overseas in the first place, unless it was the Caribbean during a vacation. If you consider the film, who had the most highest quality of life: material comfort, earning power, and safety? It was the millhunks who never left the steel towns. Ironically, though, during the Vietnam era, the good jobs wouldn’t hire draft-age young men.

‘baller

Post: #68

I really never thought about expatriating until I was sent overseas on my first job out of college.

I ended up being overseas for roughly 4 years on that job. Nothing was the same when I got back.

As others have mentioned, everything and everyone is practically the same. It's felt kind of like a time warp where you never left.

I found that as time passed, the things I had in common with lifelong friends ended up decreasing. It's not a bad thing. I still enjoy hanging with them and consider these guys great friends.

My experiences just changed radically to theirs.

Since that job, I have come home and went back overseas a few times. I happen to like living in the US, but the idea of hitting up different countries is always nagging at me. I kind of wish it wasn't there and I could just settle down.

The main thing I didn't like about living overseas was the feeling that it was temporary. Like I as living out of a suitcase. Let's face it, with visa's only being for set time limits, it can be temporary.

I really hated the visa hoops.

But, the experiences and the people you meet out weight the negatives. Even if you decide that type of life isn't for you, you will be a better man from the experiences. The only problem is you may change and find you have less in common with the people from home. Not a good or bad thing.

Post: #69

(07-25-2014 12:21 AM)lowbudgetballer Wrote:  This is for Jay Dublin. You may have gotten lost because I'm referring to something which is as far as I know a very specific American phenomenon. My first post mentioned the rustbelt. There's an Anthony Bourdain episode about the rustbelt. It was a set of prosperous American cities on the East Coast and Midwest, featuring strong industry like steel mills in Pennsylvania or automobile plants in Detroit. All of the businesses were staffed by union members with full benefits, pensions, making great wages. Think of Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino. I essentially view Gran Torino as an economic tale because if Clint Eastwood was one of those Hmong kids in 2k, he would never be able to maintain that standard of living, modify his car on the factory line, etc. Our friend MajorStyles expounded upon this concept on the ROK site.

http://www.returnofkings.com/37502/the-a...-nightmare

These days, the kind of bank the American middle class regularly made in those days is usually reserved for small percentage as opposed to a large percentage of the workforce: in the old days, every worker on the shop floor had a high standard living, while now it is reserved for people like factory owners in China--the ones who have to Buddhist priests on hand to keep the factory workers from committing suicide--maybe stockbrokers, ceos, higher management types. The people who actually do the work in the economy make the least while the people at top just skim off of them.

I am originally from the rustbelt, roughly near Clairton, the area where the American sections of the Deer Hunter took place. My father told me in his day, when you graduated school, you put your application in at one of the steel mills in the town and within a week or two, you would have a job which would set you up well: house, 5 kids, pension, full benefits, 3 cars, good vacations, expensive hobbies, etc. I had a great-uncle who was recruited into a steel mill after graduating from eight grade. He lived the American dream working for a high wage and getting a pension benefits until he died in his 80s. When I was a kid, they were buying out workers in their 30s with $200k and full pensions.

So, the reason I mentioned the Deer Hunter is because I would have liked to have had one of these jobs and never had to go overseas in the first place, unless it was the Caribbean during a vacation. If you consider the film, who had the most highest quality of life: material comfort, earning power, and safety? It was the millhunks who never left the steel towns. Ironically, though, during the Vietnam era, the good jobs wouldn’t hire draft-age young men.

‘baller

Baller: I am NOT sure whether I agree with your politics; however, I appreciate what seems to be your rendition of the decline of the "American Dream."

In fact there seems to have been security and prosperity for a large number of American jobs from the 50s to the 80s. From the 80s to the present, increasingly the surplus value of production has NOT been very well distributed across the American work force. Accordingly, there has been considerable loss of job security and/or prosperity for only a narrow elite.

It is actually complicated to explain what has caused the decline in American worker prosperity, and a political battle to devise and/or to carry out some kind of plan to restore prosperity.

Accordingly, guys have to work with what resources they have to figure out whether expatriating is going to provide a better path forward. A guys resources and skills are going to affect his decisions regarding when or how to expatriate. Some guys in this forum have suggested that guys make as much money as they can in first world countries in their 20s and 30s in order to be able to expatriate off of that accumulated wealth in their later years. Such a plan is NOT going to work for every guy, and certainly, some guys may find profitable avenues by expatriating earlier in life b/c the world distribution of opportunities seems to have largely drifted away from America in recent years.

Post: #70

For me, America is really good for getting arts projects done with proactive people.

But I CAN NOT DEAL with not having sexual access to highly fertile, under-25 ( and of course over 18) women. It is a primal basic desire almost as urgent as breathing.

I held my breath for twenty years saving up so I could get out of the sexual coffin that is America if you're over 45, under 6'3" and not famous.

Post: #71

(07-25-2014 12:31 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  The main thing I didn't like about living overseas was the feeling that it was temporary. Like I as living out of a suitcase. Let's face it, with visa's only being for set time limits, it can be temporary.

I really hated the visa hoops.

That's something that got on my nerves during my last two years overseas. I was using less than legit visas to work in China and it was always six months at a time with no guarantees that the world wouldn't change.

I've grown more comfortable with the visa game due to now having more experience at it. Also, with an undergraduate degree under my belt as of January 2014, it's going to be a lot easier from now on to meet work visa requirements.

Work visas run for up to a year generally, which is a lot less stress than every six months, which means that it is basically always on your mind. A year in the future, however, is something you don't need to think about or plan for for a while.

My attitude now is that even if China doesn't work out in the long term, I'm going to be setting myself up financially to move onto Taiwan or SEA if things don't work out here or I get bored.

I'm aiming to acquire possessions that, even though they won't fit in a suitcase, they will ship relatively inexpensively within Asia itself.

No expensive furniture, but I think I can get some nice guitars, some decent artwork, a small collection of favourite books, a very nice set of kitchen knives.

And, of course, there is nothing more portable than a good sense of humour.

I'd prefer long term stays of at least three years per location, so the transportation costs shouldn't add up too long on the long run.

So, my sense of impermanence is mitigated significantly.

Post: #72

(07-25-2014 12:31 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  The main thing I didn't like about living overseas was the feeling that it was temporary. Like I as living out of a suitcase. Let's face it, with visa's only being for set time limits, it can be temporary.

But if you were doing it that way, you weren't really an 'expat.' Country-hopping is more of a nomad or permanent tourist lifestyle, and for most people, it isn't comfortable to do that long-term.

Eventually ones aim should be to find a country (or a couple of them) which they are comfortable enough to live in. At that point one begins to determine how they will stay in that country legally. There are usually many options, especially outside of the OECD nations.

Post: #73

(07-25-2014 12:21 AM)lowbudgetballer Wrote:  This is for Jay Dublin. You may have gotten lost because I'm referring to something which is as far as I know a very specific American phenomenon. My first post mentioned the rustbelt. There's an Anthony Bourdain episode about the rustbelt. It was a set of prosperous American cities on the East Coast and Midwest, featuring strong industry like steel mills in Pennsylvania or automobile plants in Detroit. All of the businesses were staffed by union members with full benefits, pensions, making great wages. Think of Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino. I essentially view Gran Torino as an economic tale because if Clint Eastwood was one of those Hmong kids in 2k, he would never be able to maintain that standard of living, modify his car on the factory line, etc. Our friend MajorStyles expounded upon this concept on the ROK site.

http://www.returnofkings.com/37502/the-a...-nightmare

These days, the kind of bank the American middle class regularly made in those days is usually reserved for small percentage as opposed to a large percentage of the workforce: in the old days, every worker on the shop floor had a high standard living, while now it is reserved for people like factory owners in China--the ones who have to Buddhist priests on hand to keep the factory workers from committing suicide--maybe stockbrokers, ceos, higher management types. The people who actually do the work in the economy make the least while the people at top just skim off of them.

I am originally from the rustbelt, roughly near Clairton, the area where the American sections of the Deer Hunter took place. My father told me in his day, when you graduated school, you put your application in at one of the steel mills in the town and within a week or two, you would have a job which would set you up well: house, 5 kids, pension, full benefits, 3 cars, good vacations, expensive hobbies, etc. I had a great-uncle who was recruited into a steel mill after graduating from eight grade. He lived the American dream working for a high wage and getting a pension benefits until he died in his 80s. When I was a kid, they were buying out workers in their 30s with $200k and full pensions.

So, the reason I mentioned the Deer Hunter is because I would have liked to have had one of these jobs and never had to go overseas in the first place, unless it was the Caribbean during a vacation. If you consider the film, who had the most highest quality of life: material comfort, earning power, and safety? It was the millhunks who never left the steel towns. Ironically, though, during the Vietnam era, the good jobs wouldn’t hire draft-age young men.

‘baller

Im not quite sure what that has to do with any of my posts. I dont think many people are going to argue with what your saying here.

I was asking about you comparing the fighting in Vietnam to expatriation. I was hopping you could clear it.

It is fine that you personally would prefer not to leave your home city. It is an old fashioned lifestyle and I can respect that but there are many experiences and things to be learned by traveling abroad for long periods of time. If somebody has the itch to go abroad in 2014 then they should probably make the move, otherwise they will wonder forever. It's always possible to return as well.

And to be clear, living in the baby boomer days would be cool (if your of a certain race) if one loves the middle class lifestyle, but that is not today. Today it is 2014 and that lifestyle is gone. A career job at a plant today only lasts until they can ship it to Mexico, China, etc etc.


On the topic of the paragraph above, I am currently a trainer in Mexico at a plant that has taken hundreds of Canadian jobs. My Mexican friend here starts a new job next week where he will spend the next 2 years transistioning almost 1,000 jobs from a plant in the south eastern USA to Mexico.

Post: #74

(07-25-2014 05:04 AM)DaveR Wrote:  

(07-25-2014 12:31 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  The main thing I didn't like about living overseas was the feeling that it was temporary. Like I as living out of a suitcase. Let's face it, with visa's only being for set time limits, it can be temporary.

But if you were doing it that way, you weren't really an 'expat.' Country-hopping is more of a nomad or permanent tourist lifestyle, and for most people, it isn't comfortable to do that long-term.

Eventually ones aim should be to find a country (or a couple of them) which they are comfortable enough to live in. At that point one begins to determine how they will stay in that country legally. There are usually many options, especially outside of the OECD nations.

There's only a few countries outside Europe and the US where I would feel like I could become a local, Hong Kong, Singapore being among them. No way in places like Thailand or China. You will always be an outsider there. I wonder how long term expats feel about that. It does bother me.

Post: #75

(07-25-2014 09:07 AM)Jaydublin Wrote:  I was asking about you comparing the fighting in Vietnam to expatriation. I was hopping you could clear it.

Ok. Take it at face value. People who lived in their own country and did well vs. people who were forced (compelled?) to leave. I left because I was making livable money in a shit job in which I didn't want to get comfortable and stay the rest of my life. It's my own fault for my choice to attend college and my choice of major.

Do I have job satisfaction now? No. but I do have Summers off.

'baller