I'm a California resident, will be expatriating soon, and California does a lot of weird stuff with just billing you for stuff.

I've gotten over $500 deducted from tax returns and also directly seized from my bank accounts for car registration fees for cars I no longer own because they were stolen or sold. This seems constitutionally questionable to me, as they are assuming I am guilty of something , in one case even when I sent in the notice "I sold this car".

In the case of the stolen car, I had reported it stolen to the State Police, so the state had reason to know I didn't own it.

But I can't bother trying to take down these procedures, I just want to get out of reach of them for that type of scam.

It might be more useful to all readers if someone knowledgeable could offer ways to start a bank account out-of-state for anyone, so , say, someone in New York could get an account in another state if there were someone hounding them for money in NY.

i'm assuming if I get an account in a bank with NO branches or presence in California, they would have to go to more trouble than it is worth to try to grab assets there.

I have to work in California, but I want to be exposed to their financial bureaucracy as little as possible.

But how do I search for a bank WITHOUT branches somewhere?

(07-15-2014 08:44 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  But how do I search for a bank WITHOUT branches somewhere?

IKE, take a look at Bank of Internet USA. They have no physical branches at all :

https://www.bankofinternet.com/

(07-15-2014 09:06 AM)Steve9 Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 08:44 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  But how do I search for a bank WITHOUT branches somewhere?

IKE, take a look at Bank of Internet USA. They have no physical branches at all :

https://www.bankofinternet.com/

Thanks for the idea, but they look like they actually are incorporated in California

... here's from their start-your-account contract:

"Governing Law
This Agreement is governed by federal laws and, when applicable, the laws of the State of California."

...So as far as I can tell the State of Calif can make a grab just like they do at a bank with physical branches.

What about ING direct, I think it's now owned by Crapital one and called 360. But I know they don't have any real ATMs, you use a network of them that are leased.

What's to stop them from taking the right out of your check? They do that for debts and child support.

Here are some more you could look at :

First Internet Bank : https://www.firstib.com/

Ally Bank : http://www.ally.com/

Connexus Credit Union : https://www.connexuscu.org/

If I was you, I would find a small bank or credit union out of state with good online and mobile banking. I prefer credit unions, but most of them require you to be a resident/member of something in order to join. If you can deposit a check using your phone and transfer money between your accounts online, the bank's physical locations could be located anywhere in the US.

Every little town across America has at least one local bank or credit union. I know nothing about the intricacies of government collecting so I don't know if the state of CA will be able to find any open account you possess. But I'm sure there are hundreds of banks that would suit your needs.

You could also open an account under a friend or family members name. But I personally wouldn't recommend it.

You could also look into Schwab or Fidelity. I think technically they are headquartered in CA but they use a third party bank to service their customers and both are based outside of CA.

Still, I don't think the problem is having the bank in CA. If they want to garnish your bank account they can do it even if it's out of state. Any time you sign up for a bank account it goes on your credit report and they just have to pull that to track down your bank. If they have a lawful court order or lien it won't be hard for them to garnish your out of state bank accounts as well.

(07-15-2014 08:44 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  I'm a California resident, will be expatriating soon, and California does a lot of weird stuff with just billing you for stuff.

I've gotten over $500 deducted from tax returns and also directly seized from my bank accounts for car registration fees for cars I no longer own because they were stolen or sold. This seems constitutionally questionable to me, as they are assuming I am guilty of something , in one case even when I sent in the notice "I sold this car".

In the case of the stolen car, I had reported it stolen to the State Police, so the state had reason to know I didn't own it.

But I can't bother trying to take down these procedures, I just want to get out of reach of them for that type of scam.

It might be more useful to all readers if someone knowledgeable could offer ways to start a bank account out-of-state for anyone, so , say, someone in New York could get an account in another state if there were someone hounding them for money in NY.

i'm assuming if I get an account in a bank with NO branches or presence in California, they would have to go to more trouble than it is worth to try to grab assets there.

I have to work in California, but I want to be exposed to their financial bureaucracy as little as possible.

But how do I search for a bank WITHOUT branches somewhere?

Your really asking about basic asset protection. It's complex subject but there are a number of ways to accomplish what you want.

Physical branch or not isn't your problem. The state queries by SSN number...so you can still get and a "lien" and funds seized even if it's a totally digital bank.

One way around this is to have a joint account (with someone you trust obviously) and keep funds there. The state isn't supposed to be able to collect on individual liabilities / judgements against shared accounts BUT this isn't foolproof by any means. Plus you have the added worry of having to trust someone.

A better way is to incorporate in a state where corporate officers are not disclosed (Wyoming, Nevada, Delaware, etc) This is fairly easy and inexpensive to do BUT you have to do it correctly else you now owe CA Franchise Tax Board $800 minimum per year. The key is making sure that your corp is properly "domiciled" in that state (I'd suggest researching "corp domicile"). Corp bank accounts are separate from yours and are linked to the corp's EIN (tax ID number) so not subject to seizure for your liabilities (If set up AND maintained properly)

This is one way protecting your personal assets and is something that everyone should do

(07-15-2014 05:05 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  What's to stop them from taking the right out of your check? They do that for debts and child support.

I receive a pension check (I'm old) and the only people who can get at that easily is IRS and child support and to some degree student loans.

I believe the Pension Protection Act of the US Congress protects pensions to a degree, otherwise there would be a whole class of lawyers doing nothing but creating homeless old people lzolzllz.

(07-15-2014 07:28 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  Physical branch or not isn't your problem. The state queries by SSN number...so you can still get and a "lien" and funds seized even if it's a totally digital bank.

Thanks for the detailed reply.

Are you sure they can grab the money with the same amount of steps in another state?

Here in California, they just sent a letter to the bank, my guess is the calif FTB board has automatic standing to demand money from a Calif regulated Bank. But a (for example) Nevada one? Wouldn't they have to do some tedious additional steps just to steal the $150 - $200 they are back-billing me for cars I don't own?

I once owed thousands in state income tax to a state I no longer have bank accounts in, they billed me but never bothered to get my Calif bank money....

It's really not that hard.

Just take a day trip to a neighboring state and open an account in a bank local to that state only.

Do not get loans etc that would show on your credit report.

To deposit either mail a money order to CA bank to paypal to out of state bank.

It can get much more complicated if you so choose. Debtorboards.com is a great resource.

(07-15-2014 07:53 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 07:28 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  Physical branch or not isn't your problem. The state queries by SSN number...so you can still get and a "lien" and funds seized even if it's a totally digital bank.

Thanks for the detailed reply.

Are you sure they can grab the money with the same amount of steps in another state?

Here in California, they just sent a letter to the bank, my guess is the calif FTB board has automatic standing to demand money from a Calif regulated Bank. But a (for example) Nevada one? Wouldn't they have to do some tedious additional steps just to steal the $150 - $200 they are back-billing me for cars I don't own?

I once owed thousands in state income tax to a state I no longer have bank accounts in, they billed me but never bothered to get my Calif bank money....

I'm not an attorney but I live and do business in CA too so I'm all too familiar with their shenanigans (believe me). They are pretty aggressive and often overstep what they are "legally" suppose to be able to do. How aggressive is probably directly tied to the amount of the liability

Collections against individuals is a states law issue (unless you owe the US Treasury of course)and much is determined by where you reside not where the bank resides. There's a lot of grey area with regards to internet only banks (since they are a relatively new development )Most banking is subject to federal charters, regulation, etc... But again I'm not an attorney or CPA

I do happen to have a good friend who is very specialized CPA. He has a boutique practice that caters to high net worth individuals (min of $10million) with a focus on real estate, estate planning, tax shelters etc. Ive been fortunate enough to pic his brain and get good info over the years. That's why Ive, personally gone the foreign (state) corp route for operations with another completely different corp, trust structure for holdings such as real estate. I keep almost NOTHING under my name. Cars belong to an LLC, utilities are under my company name, RE in trust, etc.

Another "low tech" option for you would be to have someone that trusts YOU (preferably someone whose not prone incur debts) file a DBA and then open a bank account under the DBA while assigning signature authority to only you, That might do it, but the key, again is creating a separation between your ID (SSN) and the bank acct.

I hope some of this helps

(07-15-2014 09:08 PM)scubadude Wrote:  It's really not that hard.

Just take a day trip to a neighboring state and open an account in a bank local to that state only.

Do not get loans etc that would show on your credit report.

To deposit either mail a money order to CA bank to paypal to out of state bank.

It can get much more complicated if you so choose. Debtorboards.com is a great resource.

The debtorboards.com looks lie it might be useful...good job!

I found the following in a couple minutes of poking around. Option no 1 still seems to easy to around because of all the national databases that are available (like Nexis Lexis) but who knows...it might work. Option number 2 sounds like an easy solution

OPTION 1: Move your account to a bank far away. When I was having my creditor issues I lived first in NY and then in AZ. Where did I bank? St Paul MN. I opened my account over the internet and made my deposits by mail. The bank gave me a debit card so I could make most purchases with that and could access cash when needed. the most cost-effective way to do that is the "cash-back" option when making a debit card purchase - no fee for the cash taken. If you must use an ATM take enough cash to lasta t least a week so that the fees have minimal impact. The ATM fees are the same for a $200 withdrawal as they are for a $20 withdrawal. How does this work? Creditors and CA's tend to look for bank accounts near where you live or work. Most people do their banking that way. By banking far away - at least several states away - you make it much harder for them to find your bank account.

OPTION 2 - Use Option 1 but park your idle cash in a cyberbank like Paypal. Paypal will also give youa debit card and actually credits your account with 1.5% of each use of the debit card (use it like a credit card without entering a PIN)!! And as of the writing of this article (10/10/2005) they pay 3% interest at least double what the brick-and-mortar banks pay. How id this added safety? Simple - paypal has a Maters Account at Bank One (or Chase - B1 and Chase recently merged). Your Paypal account is a sub-account in that bank. Even if Chase or B-1 is a creditor of yours your money is safe from them because the Account Holder is Paypal. You can park your excess funds in Paypal and wire them to your brick-and-mortar bank (free) when you need to cover a check you wrote. You cannot write checks against your Paypal account.

OPTION 3: Another option is to become a signatory on an account that is not titled in your name. This is usually done by establishing a separate legal entity (Trust Corporation or Limited Liability Company). I would like to point out that this option is best done by people with a legitimate business of their own even if it is part time. By establishing a separate legal entity the money in taht account (technically) is not yours - it belongs to the entity. A creditor can no more attach the entity's money for you debt than they could attach your next door neighbor's account for your debt. There are legal steps taht must be taken to establish the entity and those steps vary from state to state. Here in Arizona you must file your Certificate of Organization with the Corporation Commission publish the Certificate three times in the newspaper and then file the Certificate of Publication with teh Corporation Commission. Then you obtain a Taxpayer Identification Number from the IRS and register with the State Department. Consult an attorney and accountant before doing this as there are lots more considerations.

Damn, Cali is even more messed up than I originally thought. The weather isn't worth it.

Check if you can open a Neteller account. All of my illegitimate money goes through them, but I'm in the UK and I don't know if you can open an account in California.

Check out Ally it has no branches. I just opened an account with them, awesome experience so far. Free to open, no monthly fees, and they reimburse all ATM fees, and they have high interest rates.

Read more about them here:

http://www.ally.com/bank/interest-checking-account/

here in Australia we can buy Visa card from any post office that has a bank account attached to it. it is completely anonymous and can hold up to $50k. you can also have as many as you want. I have several that I use to hide my money away and also make and recieve transfers that I wouldn't want traced back to my usual account. I'm sure you would have something similar in the states

Try Charles Schwab. They have brokerage offices all over, but their banking unit is based in Nevada. I've never had an issue with this so best of luck in your quest.

(07-15-2014 06:15 PM)nomadicdude Wrote:  (snip)
Any time you sign up for a bank account it goes on your credit report and they just have to pull that to track down your bank.
(snip)

Nomadicdude, my bank accounts do not appear on my free annual credit report; what type of credit report are you talking about?

(07-20-2014 01:15 PM)Engineer Wrote:  

(07-15-2014 06:15 PM)nomadicdude Wrote:  (snip)
Any time you sign up for a bank account it goes on your credit report and they just have to pull that to track down your bank.
(snip)

Nomadicdude, my bank accounts do not appear on my free annual credit report; what type of credit report are you talking about?

I stand corrected. I don't think a new bank account would show on your credit report but when the bank opens it they check your credit report and that inquiry may show on your report. Also if the bank sends your account to collections that could show on your report.

Finally, I believe banks have a system/database that screens new accounts using SS numbers. I remember reading that low income folks are getting put into the database and denied checking accounts at any bank they apply Point is that it is hard to just open a bank account in the US without regulators or the bank being able to track it.

Was your father or mother in the military? If so you could get an account through USAA. They're fucking awesome. Based in Texas (no liberal bullshit money seizing there) and they reimburse you for all atm fees domestic and international.

Zero maintenance fees of any kind.

Zero foreign transaction fees.

Something goes wrong and money get's stolen from your account? Reimbursed.

Lose your card or atm eats it? Fed ex'd overnight wherever you are at no cost.

They're a dream.

PS I've had California seize money from me for years I didn't even live in the state. Getting it back took months and a shit load of trouble.

Those people are the epitome of gov't drones that don't give a flying fuck about you.

USAA is a great choice if it is an option to you. I hope you find something that suits you and can't be accessed by California so easily. This is on of the burdens of big government, they always over reach.

This should also be a reminder than an international account is a good idea, just make sure it is reported properly. Maybe just to hold enough money for defense because as you already said, they assume guilt and seize funds.