Post: #1

Is it wrong that I think this is a pretty good idea, and the response kinda funny?

http://www.brianmayer.com/2014/07/how-i-...for-a-day/

Short-version: Tech guy in San Francisco got the idea to call up fancy restaurants, make reservations, and then make an app selling those reservations. People went apeshit on twitter and in the comments.

He explains himself in the above post, and it made sense to me, but people are going insane in the comments. It made me laugh, because the only people mad about this are the kind of people who eat in high status expensive restaurants in San Francisco, but don't want to pay any extra for it. If reservations are a limited commodity, why not monetize them? His model won't scale in it's present form, but the level of hate amuses me.

Post: #2

Damn, his website is down. Too much traffic I guess....

Post: #3

(07-04-2014 01:43 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  Damn, his website is down. Too much traffic I guess....

Working for me. Here it is quotes in case it goes down...

Quote:This morning I put the finishing touches on, and launched, ReservationHop.com, a site where I’m selling reservations I booked up at hot SF restaurants this Fourth of July weekend and beyond.

I built it over the weekend after waiting at Off the Grid for 30 minutes for a burrito from Señor Sisig, and realized that there’s got to be a market for the time people spend waiting for tables at our finest city dining establishments. Turns out I’m not the first person to think it, as there are two startups doing this very thing in New York City (here and here).

It’s a simple site with a simpler backend. I book reservations under assumed names, list them on ReservationHop, and price them according to the cost of the restaurant and how far in advance they need to be booked up. I don’t use OpenTable; I call the restaurants directly. And I have a policy of calling and canceling reservations that don’t get snapped up, because I don’t want to hurt the restaurants (the assumption being that on-demand restaurants with high walk-in traffic won’t have trouble filling those tables).

I anticipated some mild interest when I launched this morning, emailing the 20 or so potential customers I had interviewed at Off the Grid and some friends. I expected maybe having to make somewhat of an effort in order to get people to discover what I’m doing. I never expected a maelstrom of internet hate.

[twitter screenshots of hate]

Not all of the responses have been negative, but an overwhelming number of them has been.

I totally understand the frustration people have with SF’s particular brand of “innovation.” And it seems that everywhere you look cherished public resources are being claimed by startups, whether it’s Google laying claim to bus stops or parking apps laying claim to, well parking spaces. I’d half expect someone to come along one day and put picnic blankets down in Dolores park and sell them at $25 apiece.

I also understand that this represents, as one Tweeter put it, “a caricature of SF tech bro shithead.” And as someone who spends a lot of time complaining to my friends about how much of an insular bubble San Francisco has become, what with apps built by the 0.1% for the 0.1%, I completely agree. In fact, I would have much preferred the media raised this much a fuss about Drillbit or The Creative Action Network or any of my other startups over the years.

But there’s something peculiar about SF, in that our media seems to love hating on stuff like this, so I guess I’m not surprised that I got Valleywagged almost immediately, followed by a post from The Next Web. I responded to an interview request from TechCrunch so it’s written up there too.

Meanwhile, traffic has gone through the roof. Here’s my actual Google Analytics graph from today.

[analytics]

I guess you can say that any press is good press.

But let’s talk about the questions/criticisms everyone has. What was I thinking! How dare I sell something that’s free! Is this even legal? Is it ethical? Restaurants are going to hate this!

To be honest, I haven’t spent a lot of time thinking through these questions. I built this site as an experiment in consumer demand for a particular product, and the jury’s still out on whether it will work. But I can tell you what I have thought through.

The initial criticism has been about the fact that restaurant reservations are free, and I shouldn’t be selling them. First off, reservations aren’t free. Restaurant tables are limited, in high demand and people wait a good long time as walk-ins to get them. Reservations take time and planning to make and the restaurant assumes an opportunity cost from booking them. My friend joked that it took me less time to build this site than most people spend hunting for OpenTable reservations in a given year.

What about ethics? We are talking about an asset that most people don’t think about having a value. That doesn’t necessarily mean that it doesn’t have a value, or that people wouldn’t be willing to pay for it. For instance, no one would have thought that taking a cab during rush hour should cost more than a normal ride, until Uber launched surge pricing and we realized that people are willing to pay for it. Clearly, the service of booking a reservation in advance has value to patrons. This is evidenced by the startups doing this right now in New York City.

If someone does pay for it willingly, is it really unethical? The consumer has made a choice, the reservation stands, the restaurant gets a table filled as planned, and I have made money for providing the service. That seems perfectly ethical to me. I am aware that the ethical conundrum is around the “what if” question: If I book a table and no one buys it, the restaurant loses business, doesn’t it? I don’t know if that’s true yet, and I’m also working at a volume so low that it probably won’t matter. I’m canceling the reservations 4 hours before if they don’t get bought, and certainly a restaurant that’s booked weeks in advance won’t have trouble filling a table with their high walk-in traffic, or someone who gets lucky and snaps up the reservation for free on OpenTable.

But more importantly, I think that a paid reservation lets customers get skin in the game, and that means that restaurants might even reduce no-shows if paid reservations become a thing. When Alinea introduced ticketing (pre-paid reservations), they dropped their rate of no-shows by 75%. That’s a pretty good deal in an industry with razor-thin margins. I’m just speculating on whether this might provide value for restaurants; I can’t speak for them and need to parse this out over the next couple days.

So, back to becoming the most hated person in SF. I learned a lot today about how media, culture and technology in this city interact, and I have to say that overall, I think that the people who have sent me violent threats via email and Twitter, while excessive, may have a point. So in the interest of ethics and fairness, I want to talk to restaurants about working with them directly on a better reservation system. I’ve heard that OpenTable is loathed by many restaurants who don’t want to pay to fill tables. There may be a ticketing solution to high-demand restaurants. If you’re a restaurant, please drop me a line.

And if you’re a regular Jane or Joe, and you missed an opportunity to get a reservation at a hot SF restaurant for your first wedding anniversary this weekend, check to see if there are any reservations available for you at ReservationHop.com.

Post: #4

I thought Eddie Murphy was the most hated man in San Francisco...

PULL OVAH!

Post: #5

Thats pretty smart but he is using other peoples business to earn money. Isn't that against trade rules?

Post: #6

It's an asinine idea, and anyone who thinks otherwise puts money over integrity.

That said, in America, no one really gives a shit how kosher your money is, they just want to be near it.

The startups is a good thing insofar as it pushes restaurants to adopt more efficient means of reserving tables. I know nothing about running a high end restaurant. If I did have a resto, I'd find some app or platform that offers reservations with a $15+ deposit, or sell tickets for fixed meals outright, as some have begun to do. Initially do 50% of your reservations that way, say, and inch it up to 90-100% over a few years, if the crowds will come that way.

Post: #7

Yet another example of some dude's get-rich-quick scheme not giving a fuck about the net effect on people's quality of life. If I were dictator that would be taken into account when permitting or not permitting certain things to exist.

In my brutally regulated world, Facebook, iPhones, and online dating wouldn't exist. Their deleterious effect on the dating market and people's social skills would be checked off on the form my office would send back.

And, this dude would be executed and chopped into little pieces in the streets for even trying this.

Post: #8

^^^Agree. The guy is basically a squatter/scalper in the worst way.

I also agree regarding wiping out online dating. A friend of mine (went through bad divorce) started online dating a few weeks ago at the suggestion of female friends (I warned him never to take dating advice from women) who helped write his profile (it's not good, obviously. No hint of what he is looking for). He's in good shape, tall, good job. Naturally he's been bombarded by fat buffaloes who think he sounds 'sweet'. He's now super depressed, it's tough to watch.

I like Facebook for two reasons. 1) I can keep in touch with old friends more easily. 2) Watching the narcissism and insecurity (mostly women, but many men too) is like watching a bad reality show.

Post: #9

I thought this was going to be some horrible revelations about a science fiction author.

"I'd hate myself if I had that kind of attitude, if I were that weak." - Arnold

Post: #10

Figured this was a thread about Mark Zuckerberg.

Post: #11

As far as I know, this guy isn't doing anything illegal.

And therefore it's perfectly within his rights to run this kind of business.

Whether it's shitty or not is irrelevant.

There's this commercial I keep seeing here in Thailand...

It advertises an antibacterial soap and depicts a family washing their young son with it.

It's then followed by a jubilant family walk outside with a magical blue forcefield around the son protecting him from those evil germs.

Countless companies are legally poisoning this planet and its inhabitants. What about them?

I guess you can make anything sound insignificant compared to that.

But come on San Francisco...don't you have anything better to worry about?

Like filthy bums jerking off in the subway and junkies accosting you for money every time you step foot in the mission?

Or how about the gnarliest taxes I've ever seen?

As another poster mentioned, the businesses will be forced to evolve their business processes.

So much the better for the restaurant industry.

If it weren't for this guy, some other guy would've thought of it.

And if I saw this opportunity I'd probably have done the same thing.

It isn't my job to worry about how my perfectly legal actions affect others.

To admonish people chasing opportunities within the scope of the law is a slippery slope.

Where would that put men approaching women in the streets...?

Post: #12

There are a growing number of restaurants utilizing a ticket system, though even that is faulty because just like concert tickets, they can be bought (usually 6 at a time) and sold. Some of them have a policy that if the tickets are sold for more than they were originally bought, the tickets will be voided. I'm not sure how they can monitor that but Next and Alinea restaurant in Chicago developed their own software for this.

It works out for restaurants because high end restaurants need a full house. If even two tables don't show, let's say 6 people (a 4 top and a deuce) that's can be as much as $3000 out of the restaurant's pocket, which is very often their entire profit margin. Despite what most people think, high end restaurants that charge $300-$500 per person don't generate much in profits. The cost of overhead, labor, and goods is extremely high.

Anyway, this guy is just capitalizing where others have not yet done so. That's the American way.

It makes sense that the general public in SF would get so incensed over this. This is a city where dining out is the major pastime and the average person sees it as a god-given right. Dining at places like Saison and Benu give some sort of "street cred" to city dwellers and isn't just about a good meal. It's about instagramming all the different dishes, getting a signed menu from the chef, and telling all your friends afterward what an amazing experience it was.

This is just another one of those modern developments that people will have to adapt to. High end restaurants are no longer a place to simply get a good meal. We've been calling chefs "rockstars" for over a decade now so it's only natural that restaurant reservations would take the same status as concert tickets. I loathe it as much as the next guy on these forums, but that's how things stand these days.

Post: #13

I mean, yeah the dude is a scalper and of questionable morals. However he is just capitalizing on the world he lives in. If there are apps selling parking spots, what is so awful about selling restaurant reservations? Especially when he is cancelling the reservation ahead of time if it doesn't sell. He's just like any other middleman in America.

Post: #14

"It makes sense that the general public in SF would get so incensed over this. This is a city where dining out is the major pastime and the average person sees it as a god-given right. "

Great point. In sum, imagine a city made up entirely of Yelp 'reviewers.' That's San Francisco in a nut shell - coincidentally the city where it was founded. The self-absorption, the shallow progressivism, the pretentious conception of self as urbane savant despite a supreme lack of relevant expertise, the inability to just shut the fuck up...

Post: #15

I think the reason why people find this model so repugnant is that he's inserting himself as a middleman in a system that's not really broken in a way that's not entirely ethical. Services like Uber and Airbnb insert themselves as middlemen but into broken or non-existent markets. Hardly anybody likes the way cab services work in most cities and Airbnb created a market that didn't really exist before it arrived.

Restaurants on the other hand are actually pretty easy to get into and the exclusivity of the hip places is by design. You might not be able to get a last minute reservation on a Friday or Saturday night but 99% of restaurants have tables available up to a week in advance. For the moderately exclusive places you might need to book a month in advance. There are a few notable exceptions - the French Laundry had a notorious one year waiting list a few years ago (not sure what the current status is) but at that point it becomes a novelty in and of itself. Those seatings are coveted because you can't buy them, you have to book and wait. What's so repulsive about what this guy did is that it threatens the availability of seats of your average high end joint (even if he ultimately releases them they're tied up during the period that he's booked them making it difficult to plan) as well as cheapen the experience of getting a reservation at the ultra high exclusive places. People like clubs that you can't buy your way into.

Post: #16

(07-05-2014 05:24 PM)Ensam Wrote:  There are a few notable exceptions - the French Laundry had a notorious one year waiting list a few years ago (not sure what the current status is) but at that point it becomes a novelty in and of itself. Those seatings are coveted because you can't buy them, you have to book and wait. What's so repulsive about what this guy did is that it... cheapen the experience of getting a reservation at the ultra high exclusive places. People like clubs that you can't buy your way into.

A club is different, because the other patrons play a big role in how much you enjoy the club, while at a restaurant, provided the other patrons aren't too noisy, they figure a lot less in your experience of the meal.

People who want to use 'time in line' as a way to ration goods out are fucking lame hipster toolbags who take pride in consuming things that other people make. There's no mastery involved in waiting in line, nor is there for buying a spot in line or paying a hooker for sex. It's better for the restaurant to augment its finances by rationing spots based on fees, and not on devotion.

I mean, I sympathize with some places a little wanting to keep their spots relatively affordable to keep a broader base of customers, but when people insinuate the value of a restaurant is linked to how devoted you have to be get in, I just think of these yelp losers and how they have nothing else to judge a man by except his yuppie slave devotion.

Post: #17

(07-05-2014 05:35 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

(07-05-2014 05:24 PM)Ensam Wrote:  There are a few notable exceptions - the French Laundry had a notorious one year waiting list a few years ago (not sure what the current status is) but at that point it becomes a novelty in and of itself. Those seatings are coveted because you can't buy them, you have to book and wait. What's so repulsive about what this guy did is that it... cheapen the experience of getting a reservation at the ultra high exclusive places. People like clubs that you can't buy your way into.

A club is different, because the other patrons play a big role in how much you enjoy the club, while at a restaurant, provided the other patrons aren't too noisy, they figure a lot less in your experience of the meal.

People who want to use 'time in line' as a way to ration goods out are fucking lame hipster toolbags who take pride in consuming things that other people make. There's no mastery involved in waiting in line, nor is there for buying a spot in line or paying a hooker for sex. It's better for the restaurant to augment its finances by rationing spots based on fees, and not on devotion.

I mean, I sympathize with some places a little wanting to keep their spots relatively affordable to keep a broader base of customers, but when people insinuate the value of a restaurant is linked to how devoted you have to be get in, I just think of these yelp losers and how they have nothing else to judge a man by except his yuppie slave devotion.

That's kind of my point... most restaurants wouldn't benefit from a spot system. You can have world class dining in most cities with same day reservations - even on a weekend night. The restaurants with limited seatings and ridiculous reservation times are precisely those that are targeted specifically at hipster douchebags so they wouldn't be interested in spot pricing anyway. The quality is good but no better than 10 other restaurants that have open tables every night. The main draw is the fact that it's difficult to get access.

Post: #18

If you think this guy is bad, check out the Monkey Parking app. This dude is trying to sell PUBLIC parking spaces in SF.

http://blog.sfgate.com/cityinsider/2014/...cash-apps/

Post: #19

Sugar, that's incorrect. He made an app that allows people to sell their parking spot, and his app takes a cut.

What both apps have in common is that they're selling you time and convenience, and that they exploit an inefficiently managed resource. The solution is pricing these things that are free or underpriced. Put parking meters where parking is being sold.

Post: #20

^ I mean you're right, the app is selling information not parking spaces but it's still bad news. Someone hanging out saving a parking space while someone else might be waiting, will ultimately lead to confrontation.

Post: #21

You see the same thing with people with rent controlled apartments subletting out their place for market rates - instead of $5 for a parking spot, that's hundreds to thousands of dollars a month. But the crusty communist types love rent control...

Post: #22

Very few people in SF care about this..

I asked many people about this yesterday. (At least 25 people)

No one even knew what I was talking about.

All the complaining came on the guys website:

http://www.brianmayer.com

I have never heard of the guy. I don't read his website.

He is not the "most hated man in SF".

He gave himself that title.

The type of people who complained about this are the type of people who follow the "techie" blogs and then feel the need to make moral judgements about the latest innovations in Silicon Valley.

Those people are a very small percentage of our population.

The 1% does work here. The 1% does play here.

But.. Most of us are not in the 1%.

This story only effects the 1%, the wanna-be 1%, the socialites who argue about restaurant reservations, and the people who can afford to eat at fancy restaurants all the time.

The rest of us don't care.

It became a hot media story because rich people were involved in an ethical controversy.

Just like the problems of Wall St. do not represent all of NYC.

And, the problems of Hollywood do not represent all of LA.

The 1% of Silicon Valley does not represent all of San Francisco.

Most of us don't care about this..

Post: #23

Thanks for the perspective Gio, guess I was a little hasty, haha. The thing is, these types of people can't help but represent some little thing going on in their social set as some vast mass phenomenon, to the point where an outsider like me reads the press and thinks wow people in the city are really pissed over so little. I've known these types, and they are irredeemably socially incestuous and only hobnob with people like themselves.