Post: #1

In a nutshell, about 9 months ago I sold an out-of-state customer about $8000 worth of goods and he refuses to pay me. An attorney has told me it would cost $5,000+ just to get a settlement and the likelihood that I'll be able to collect is minimal.

I sell furniture and this guy had been a good customer for about one year so I had extended him credit. He makes an order totaling about $8,000 then refuses to pay saying on different occasions 1) he never made the order, 2) he never received it, and 3) he received it but it was all damaged. This, despite having a Purchase Order and delivery confirmation from him. Having dug around I discovered he found another vendor and decided to screw me over and pocket the difference.

For a period of about 3 months I have called him daily and most times he did not pick up but the times when he did he threatened me, called me profane names, etc etc.

He's out-of-state and across the country. I spoke with an attorney and the attorney said fees are going to be about what the guy owes me, and there's little guarantee that I'll be able to collect not to mention there's no guarantee that the debtor is responsible for attorney fees.

I honestly think I'm out of the money now, which hurts a lot because $8000 is no small change. I'm at the point where I just want to make this guy's life miserable. I've invested a lot of time and energy into trying to collect that a few hundred additional more hours will be well worth the result.

Does anyone have any ideas on making this loser's life miserable?

Post: #2

Why do you need an attorney? This sounds appropriate for small claims court.

What state is this in and where did you perform the sale? If you performed it in your home state, you should be able to go small claims in your own city and open a suit against him.

If you have to file in his jurisdiction though, you can fly out there for easily under a grand go to court and state your case. If it is as clear cut as you make it out to be you should be alright. The judge can even open a lien on the guy and garnish his wages so you can get your money back.

Post: #3

(06-25-2014 10:09 AM)frenchie Wrote:  Why do you need an attorney? This sounds appropriate for small claims court.

What state is this in and where did you perform the sale? If you performed it in your home state, you should be able to go small claims in your own city and open a suit against him.

If you have to file in his jurisdiction though, you can fly out there for easily under a grand go to court and state your case. If it is as clear cut as you make it out to be you should be alright. The judge can even open a lien on the guy and garnish his wages so you can get your money back.

Small claims is only up to $2500.

Post: #4

I'm not really that savvy with legal jargon, but I'd watch some vengeance movies! I'd hire a P.I. in his state to scope him out and his routine. See his habits, what he looks like, car he drives, family, etc. Then use what I know over the phone to scare him a bit. Recon is a wonderful thing.


Not saying its the best or most legal thing, but it would sound fun! But all kidding aside, I wouldn't take this advice!

Good luck on it!

Post: #5

I'm surprised that your legal advisor said that it would cost upwards of $5000 to do this. Collection attorneys and firms usually work on contingency, meaning that they take a percentage of what they recover. You may have to pay a bit up front for filing fees, but $5000? Bullshit. They just don't want to take your case and are quoting you high fees as an excuse.

Frankly I call bullshit on that. It shouldn't be that much. You can find a decent collection attorney to file an action against him in the county where he resides in. In all likelihood, he won't contest it and you'll get a judgment against him. Then they can slap a lien on his assets or bank account, or pursue other aggressive collection activities against his fucking ass, like garnishing wages, or even haul him into court for a "debtor's exam" which is an examination under oath to see where his assets are. Debtors hate this, and it is a real inconvenience.

If you think he has your merchandise, look into a "replevin" action, which is a civil action to recover property.

In extreme situations, you might even be able to do the nuclear option in collections work: the involuntary bankruptcy. That is, forcing his ass into bankruptcy. This is very rare, but you never know...

And yes, small claims is also an option. But many counties have cap limits on what you can go after. In my county here, the limit is $5000. Anything above that, you need to go to District or Circuit court.

Good luck.

But at this stage you can at least refer it to a collection agency, which costs you nothing.

Post: #6

Give me his info and 4k if I collect.

Post: #7

(06-25-2014 10:18 AM)monster Wrote:  

(06-25-2014 10:09 AM)frenchie Wrote:  Why do you need an attorney? This sounds appropriate for small claims court.

What state is this in and where did you perform the sale? If you performed it in your home state, you should be able to go small claims in your own city and open a suit against him.

If you have to file in his jurisdiction though, you can fly out there for easily under a grand go to court and state your case. If it is as clear cut as you make it out to be you should be alright. The judge can even open a lien on the guy and garnish his wages so you can get your money back.

Small claims is only up to $2500.

In my state (Mass) small claims goes up to $7000. What state are you and the bad guy in?

Post: #8

If his state is not too far apart, get a group of friends and go see him with baseball bats. Tell him you want the money in 3 days and go back there in 3 days. If he doesn't give you the money, destroy his whole place or just rob his whole place. No forgiveness for a thief.

If you were in the UK I could help you with that shit.

Post: #9

Although the guy deserves it, don't do what Pitt suggests. You'll end up in prison for multiple years.

Post: #10

(06-25-2014 10:30 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  Give me his info and 4k if I collect.

I would go the el mech, or another collection agency route first. Cheaper, faster and more effective than an attorney. If he's a wholesaler and/or you know any of his customers leave the non-payer another message letting him know that if he doesn't pay in 15 you will be making claims on your goods with the customers who received them. I know a business that does this with freight.

The idea that Pitt has is not good.

Last, Laner had this problem some time ago, there should be an existing thread of other solutions for you.

Post: #11

(06-25-2014 10:25 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  I'm surprised that your legal advisor said that it would cost upwards of $5000 to do this. Collection attorneys and firms usually work on contingency, meaning that they take a percentage of what they recover. You may have to pay a bit up front for filing fees, but $5000? Bullshit. They just don't want to take your case and are quoting you high fees as an excuse.

Frankly I call bullshit on that. It shouldn't be that much. You can find a decent collection attorney to file an action against him in the county where he resides in. In all likelihood, he won't contest it and you'll get a judgment against him. Then they can slap a lien on his assets or bank account, or pursue other aggressive collection activities against his fucking ass, like garnishing wages, or even haul him into court for a "debtor's exam" which is an examination under oath to see where his assets are. Debtors hate this, and it is a real inconvenience.

If you think he has your merchandise, look into a "replevin" action, which is a civil action to recover property.

In extreme situations, you might even be able to do the nuclear option in collections work: the involuntary bankruptcy. That is, forcing his ass into bankruptcy. This is very rare, but you never know...

And yes, small claims is also an option. But many counties have cap limits on what you can go after. In my county here, the limit is $5000. Anything above that, you need to go to District or Circuit court.

Good luck.

But at this stage you can at least refer it to a collection agency, which costs you nothing.

QC is right. I helped a friend get some info and the agency I spoke to said the fee was 25% on what is collected. 40% on what is collected if they have to go legal. And since they are in the business of collections they have lawyers in house or a working relationship so I don't think their legal costs are as much as yours would be as a guy off the street.

Regarding forcing someone into BK, where I am I think you need 3 parties to do it. So if you can find a sufficient number of other creditors, you could do that.

Unfortunately, my cruel side is coming out. But if they guy has been disrespectful (and I hate that when they are clearly wrong and get defensive), then you put your foot on his throat. BK him. Then you have a good story to joke about but also use to warn others. All you need to do is light someone up once, a sacrificial lamb, and people will know better.

You don't even need to successfully complete the BK, just starting the process shows some nerve.

This is where my favorite expression comes to mind, "Do not mistake my kindness for weakness."

Punish him.

Post: #12

I had a similar thing happen. Fyi never used fedex cod. On numerous occssions had drivers forget to pickup checks and on o e occasion instead of taking a cashiers check as required driver took a personal check but not only that a temp check with name and address written in. Guy was stupid i had his social id and everytjing if i wanted to coulda really fucked with him or sold that i fo but thats not me so didnt. That said back in the day used to love putting up escort, gangbang or really any craigslist ad i knew would get flooded with responses. People wind up having to get new phone numbers lol

Post: #13

I dont know how this works but theres something called a commercial lien.. I guess these sovereign citizen guys do it to judges and cops to fuck with them to the tune of literally millions amd billions of dollars. Its a hige headache to get fixed and they cant get any credit with them open. These guys do it just for the hell of it bc no proof is needed from what i hear. In your situation however its actually justified but if these guys can do it just to mess with someone you can surely do it as you really are owed money

Post: #14

Remember what happened to OJ Simpson for violently "collecting on a debt."

Post: #15

(06-25-2014 10:25 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  I'm surprised that your legal advisor said that it would cost upwards of $5000 to do this. Collection attorneys and firms usually work on contingency, meaning that they take a percentage of what they recover. You may have to pay a bit up front for filing fees, but $5000? Bullshit. They just don't want to take your case and are quoting you high fees as an excuse.

Frankly I call bullshit on that. It shouldn't be that much. You can find a decent collection attorney to file an action against him in the county where he resides in. In all likelihood, he won't contest it and you'll get a judgment against him. Then they can slap a lien on his assets or bank account, or pursue other aggressive collection activities against his fucking ass, like garnishing wages, or even haul him into court for a "debtor's exam" which is an examination under oath to see where his assets are. Debtors hate this, and it is a real inconvenience.

If you think he has your merchandise, look into a "replevin" action, which is a civil action to recover property.

In extreme situations, you might even be able to do the nuclear option in collections work: the involuntary bankruptcy. That is, forcing his ass into bankruptcy. This is very rare, but you never know...

And yes, small claims is also an option. But many counties have cap limits on what you can go after. In my county here, the limit is $5000. Anything above that, you need to go to District or Circuit court.

Good luck.

But at this stage you can at least refer it to a collection agency, which costs you nothing.

I believe you can do most, if not all of this yourself with help from a paralegal who will help you with the paperwork and won't charge very much. You might have to hire a paralegal in the dude's hometown to file the paperwork for you, but again doing it that way shouldn't cost that much.

Post: #16

(06-25-2014 12:36 PM)jamaicabound Wrote:  I had a similar thing happen. Fyi never used fedex cod. On numerous occssions had drivers forget to pickup checks and on o e occasion instead of taking a cashiers check as required driver took a personal check but not only that a temp check with name and address written in. Guy was stupid i had his social id and everytjing if i wanted to coulda really fucked with him or sold that i fo but thats not me so didnt. That said back in the day used to love putting up escort, gangbang or really any craigslist ad i knew would get flooded with responses. People wind up having to get new phone numbers lol

Quote:I dont know how this works but theres something called a commercial lien.. I guess these sovereign citizen guys do it to judges and cops to fuck with them to the tune of literally millions amd billions of dollars. Its a hige headache to get fixed and they cant get any credit with them open. These guys do it just for the hell of it bc no proof is needed from what i hear. In your situation however its actually justified but if these guys can do it just to mess with someone you can surely do it as you really are owed money

We don't use text speak here.

Post: #17

Anyone know the consequences of posting online facts (including emails and texts) about money owed?

The truth defends against libel claims, correct?

Post: #18

(06-25-2014 11:06 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(06-25-2014 10:25 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  I'm surprised that your legal advisor said that it would cost upwards of $5000 to do this. Collection attorneys and firms usually work on contingency, meaning that they take a percentage of what they recover. You may have to pay a bit up front for filing fees, but $5000? Bullshit. They just don't want to take your case and are quoting you high fees as an excuse.

Frankly I call bullshit on that. It shouldn't be that much. You can find a decent collection attorney to file an action against him in the county where he resides in. In all likelihood, he won't contest it and you'll get a judgment against him. Then they can slap a lien on his assets or bank account, or pursue other aggressive collection activities against his fucking ass, like garnishing wages, or even haul him into court for a "debtor's exam" which is an examination under oath to see where his assets are. Debtors hate this, and it is a real inconvenience.

If you think he has your merchandise, look into a "replevin" action, which is a civil action to recover property.

In extreme situations, you might even be able to do the nuclear option in collections work: the involuntary bankruptcy. That is, forcing his ass into bankruptcy. This is very rare, but you never know...

And yes, small claims is also an option. But many counties have cap limits on what you can go after. In my county here, the limit is $5000. Anything above that, you need to go to District or Circuit court.

Good luck.

But at this stage you can at least refer it to a collection agency, which costs you nothing.

QC is right. I helped a friend get some info and the agency I spoke to said the fee was 25% on what is collected. 40% on what is collected if they have to go legal. And since they are in the business of collections they have lawyers in house or a working relationship so I don't think their legal costs are as much as yours would be as a guy off the street.

Regarding forcing someone into BK, where I am I think you need 3 parties to do it. So if you can find a sufficient number of other creditors, you could do that.

Unfortunately, my cruel side is coming out. But if they guy has been disrespectful (and I hate that when they are clearly wrong and get defensive), then you put your foot on his throat. BK him. Then you have a good story to joke about but also use to warn others. All you need to do is light someone up once, a sacrificial lamb, and people will know better.

You don't even need to successfully complete the BK, just starting the process shows some nerve.

This is where my favorite expression comes to mind, "Do not mistake my kindness for weakness."

Punish him.

It's better to be a villain, than someone else's bitch.

Post: #19

Use the power of Google and destroy his and his companies reputation. Build up various pages detailing how he screwed you and warns other not to work with him. I'm sure he would love that.

Tell him he has to pay up the rest if he wants you to remove the incriminating results.

Post: #20

(07-17-2014 02:12 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  Anyone know the consequences of posting online facts (including emails and texts) about money owed?

The truth defends against libel claims, correct?

You're risking more than just $5k or $8k at that point.

But if you must, utilize the 4HWW method and hire somebody in India to tear his name down on social media like Saladin says.

Post: #21

OK, this isn't going so well and I do not feel like I'm going to collect. I hired a collection attorney but the additional fees on top of the 25% take keep adding up, and I've heard that the guy's business is failing so even if I were to have a judgement in my favor, there'd be nothing for me to even put a lien on or to otherwise collect.

I'm thinking of ways just to really annoy the f*ck out of him. Honestly, it's hard to control my rage when I think about how much of a lying thief this guy was and it will put me in a terrible mood the whole day and prevent me from going to sleep. But I can't let it go.

My best idea is to post his number as an escort in all the major cities on the backspace escort page so he'll get calls at all hours of the night.

Of course this is superficial. I would prefer Saladin's recommendation to build up webpages destroying him, but the sad thing is this guy is a relative nobody and has absolutely nothing on him on the web or social media anyway. So I'm thinking to myself that it really won't make a lick of difference anyway.

Anyone have any other vengeance ideas which that (unfortunately) do not involve killing the bastard?

Post: #22

Post: #23

Here is the thread that I started a while back.

In my scenario it was not the cash that caused the most damage. It was the business venture that essentially had to start over. The money was replaced in a few weeks, but the slow grind of starting new is now just starting to see fruition, six months later.

You are out a good chunk of change if its all your cash (meaning all out of your pocket). As he is a former client at least you get to write down the loss on your taxes and this helps to certain degree.

One of my clients writes down almost 20% some years because people are shady as fuck these days. Business is changing, mostly for the worse, but filling this change is the fact that more safeguards are in place so this does not have to happen.

Escrow accounts are a pain, but due to the amount of quick money bullshitters out there they can be way to go.

I hate the live and learn mentality as I grew up in an environment where vengeance is normal. Because of this mentality, nobody really ever got ripped off. Funny how that works.

Oh, and I second hiring ElMech.

Post: #24

Pay a girl to say the guy who owes you money raped her.

Buy a bag of popcorn and sit back.

Post: #25

(08-21-2014 12:03 AM)Glaucon Wrote:  Pay a girl to say the guy who owes you money raped her.

Buy a bag of popcorn and sit back.