Post: #1

So this story might sound comical but bear with me.

I recently discovered that my grandmother is giving away her savings and apartment which is worth at least a few hundred thousand to her local Church or some monastery. My mother is not doing well financially and I am not able to help her out much because I am still in college. So I'd rather see my mother getting that money instead of some priest who will most likely splash that cash on child porn.

As far as I know 20 years ago the grandmother had a near death experience where she saw light at the end of the tunnel and had a conversation with Jesus who told her that its not her time yet. Ever since her number 1 priority in life has been church and god. I believe her ultimate goal is to get into heaven after death and do whatever homeboy Jesus said they do up there. So donating her money to church will probably guarantee that she gets in.

She is strongly emotionally connected to her faith so any logical or anti-christian conversation will not do in this case. I am open to suggestions on how I might be able to talk her out of this decision.

Post: #2

That's a tough one.

My first thought is to show her examples of churches' misappropriating funds, but I imagine she at least trusts the people she would give the money to.
You could lean on the idea that enriching family is just as godly, it's what the Jews practice, for example.
But it's hard to talk money with the elderly because they know people are angling for their riches.

Post: #3

there's something trollish about this thread. but if serious:
you should let your grandmother do whatever she likes with her own money.

or, you could let a friend dress up as a priest and steer your grandmother in another direction.

Post: #4

Some sycophantic, slimy priest no doubt convinced her to do this, so maybe try some quote-mining of your own, if you can find a way to discuss the Bible with her (wince).
For example: Proverbs 13:22 "A good person leaves an inheritance for their children's children, but a sinner's wealth is stored up for the righteous."
Commentary: "A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children,.... He not only has a sufficiency for the present support of himself and family; but is so prospered and succeeded, as to leave an inheritance after him; and which is continued to and enjoyed, not only by his immediate offspring, but theirs also; for being got honestly, it wears well." (from Biblehub)

Post: #5

Troll alert

Where in the world are you? It sounds like your grandmother has a very strong spiritual side, but has very little grounding in scripture.

Jesus teaches us that only through acceptance of him as our savior do we get into heaven. He says this in the new testament more than enough times to drive the point home.

Doing good acts is nice and definitely appreciated, but only when those good acts are done willingly through love. It sounds like she is doing this to "show off" to other people in the church.

Ask her if she has read the bible, specifically the new testament. By read, I mean she sat down, opened the bible, and read it. Being taught by a preacher means nothing.

Then, bring up the story of the Mark 12:44. The parable of the old lady who gave two pennies.

The parable goes, an old lady gave two copper pennies while the rich people gave large sums of money. Jesus says that the old lady gave more than the rich people because she gave all that she had and was not concerned about the future because God will provide.

The rich people would throw large amounts of coins into a metal container that would ring loudly when more coins were thrown in. Jesus taught us that the rich people never truly submitted themselves to the Lord because they were using their "good deeds" to show off to others.

Is she showing off to others by giving everything she has? Ask her her motives.

If you really want to convince her, why don't you read the New Testament to see where Jesus and be extension Paul talk about this type of behavior.

At the end of the day however, her estate is her estate she can do what she pleases with it. You can however, try and convince her to split it 50/50. Maybe 50 for your mom, 25 for you, and 25 for the church.

Post: #6

Her money is none of your business. You, nor your mother, are ENTITLED to it.

Maybe the church has played a bigger role in her life recently than you or your mother. Maybe your mother isn't doing well financially because SHE doesn't manage money well and your grandmother knows it. Since you don't seem to know much about the institutions that your grandmother wishes to fund, it is difficult to take your perspective on them seriously.

(ie. "I recently discovered that my grandmother is giving away her savings to her local Church or some monastery. So I'd rather see my mother getting that money instead of some priest who will most likely splash that cash on child porn.)

If your mom is in that much trouble, why shouldn't YOU put your "schooling" on hold and move back home to help out?

Post: #7

Depends on your mother's faith. If she's not into church then grandma may be giving the money away to keep it out of her heathen hands in her mind.

I'd appeal to the church directly and explain the situation. An upstanding pastor will likely counsel her with something like Rutting elephant has said above. If Plan A doesn't work and she does end up giving it all away, join the church and appeal to them for charity. Your grandma will be/was their most recent big donor so you'll likely have some clout for generous help.

Post: #8

Ok, so I started with a quick dirty response "how to get my inheritance", then ended up down a rabbit hole. Perhaps the tangent will give you some wisdom with what you're dealing with though.

(1) I wouldn't focus on the church misappropriation or use the term Jews. Maybe "...it's what the Israelites did in the Old Testament."

(2) If your mom has made poor choices to be financially poor...does she have good standing and have respect with your mom? If not, distance yourself from your mom (in grandma's eyes) and focus on getting the inheritance yourself...then you can help your mom.

(3) Start going to church with her. Get into lotsa touchy-feely conversations with her post-sermon, really layering on the emotions. Figure out a way to steer some of these conversations toward taking care of family first and perhaps some not buying your way into heaven.

Quote:"But if any provideth not for his own, and specially his own household, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an unbeliever." - 1 Timothy 5:8 (ASV)

Of course, it's her money and you could provide the argument neither option is more "right". You mentioned "child porn" vs what, your mom using it for more humanitarian or "righteous" or more moral purposes? Seems like a straw man argument. Churches do plenty of good and bad, just like all groups or individuals.

My tangent: Providing for offspring and passing down inheritance is a completely animalistic instinct. Passing inheritance to the church is the quintessential example of anti-natural order which is a thread throughout the Bible, specifically the natural inheritance of the Israelite nation vs the un-natural inheritance of Christianity.

- Cain, the first-born of Adam and Eve, kills his brother Esau out of jealousy. Cain is cursed and removed from the Messianic lineage.

- Abraham giving his second-born son Isaac the inheritance instead of his first-born son Ishmael. (interesting Isaac was the first-born of Sarah, his mother).

- Jacob gets his twin brother Esau's inheritance by tricking his father. Esau is removed from the inheritance and Messianic line (interesting again Esau was his father's favorite and Jacob his mother's favorite, and Jacob pulled off this trick by scheming with his mother) (also, again, Jacob was the first-born of Rachel, his mother).

- Solomon had one older brother alive to receive kingship, yet Bathsheba, one of David's wives, and Nathan convinced David to declare Solomon king. So goes the inheritance and Messianic line.

- Of course, these stories are all merely types and shadows - the Diet Coke - of God's ultimate story. The natural, selfish, animalistic, offspring-oriented inheritance was through God's first-born Adam and the Israelite nation. The giving of his son Jesus breaks this lineage and natural-order inheritance by giving it to all of humanity.
The old testament is to show the natural order, the natural inheritance, of God's graces and to give glimpses of what was to come via the stories above.
The Gospels, telling the story of Jesus, break this natural order.
The Epistles explain Christianity (above) and offer advice to the Church going forward (how to found a church, how to run a church, what it means to be a Christian, etc).

Again, the above isn't to promote or undermine anything, simply to offer some insights as to what you're dealing with. Buena suerte.

- Recovering Christian

Post: #9

(06-18-2014 08:34 AM)lowside Wrote:  there's something trollish about this thread.

You guys are seriously underestimating. I know a few people who have done dumb shit like this, particularly elderly people. Old people don't have the natural suspicion we do because they grew up in a time when screwing people over as a way of life was less common, and because they believe that people wouldn't rip off a little old lady.

A friend of the family was caught up in these bogus sweepstakes. Woman with a eastern European accent tells her to send $700 via Western Union for "handling fees" for her "free car". The Western Union office has a sign up saying not to send money to these people but the old lady won't listen, she's sure she won a new car (let alone that she doesn't drive, but her son could use a new car...). The Western Union cashier tries to explain, old lady insists that she has to send this money, finally the cashier has a co-worker do it, because she refuses to take part in the transaction. It was a mess to unwind this. Her family had the police come and talk to her, explain stuff to her, had to do stuff with her bank to ensure she couldn't fall for this kind of stuff again.

Another friend's mom gave away all her money to Benny Hinn, was living off dog food (literally, I'm not kidding) but sending thousands to that shithead.

I don't have any real advice. I would definitely confront the church she goes to and let them know what's going on. If they're not receptive, you can always threaten to sue them. A credible threat may scare them off. You can see about having her declared incompetent, but that's going to fuck up family relationships. You can have a financial expert talk to her, or have the police make a community service call.