Post: #1

Brown University Student Speaks Out on What It’s Like to Be Accused of Rape

Quote:In April, Daniel Kopin was publicly accused of sexually assaulting his classmate. For the first time, he tells his side of the story.
“We were friends.”

Over the course of a nearly two-hour conversation, Daniel Kopin returns to this point again and again. Ten months after an evening that irrevocably changed two young people’s lives, Kopin, a 21-year-old former Brown University student, still sounds genuinely shaken as he recounts his reaction to an August 8 email that confronted him with a stark accusation: “Dan, you raped me.”

Stories like these are currently at the center of an intense national campaign, unfolding in the media and on the political stage, to publicize and combat the problem of campus sexual assault. In the past two years, dozens of young women have come forward with shattering accounts of being abused both by their assailants and by indifferent or unsympathetic school administrators—and, more and more often, with federal civil rights lawsuits against the institutions. The alleged perpetrators in these accounts nearly always remain shadowy figures, their names protected by anonymity and their version of the events unknown. In a rare exception, Kopin decided to speak with The Daily Beast.

“I was in shock—total disbelief,” Kopin says, growing visibly agitated as he recalls reading the email. “I couldn’t—I mean, I called my mom. Being accused—something must be wrong, something must be off. That was my initial thought. But it became clear, as I looked over my facts, the text messages I had—as I racked my memory—it became clear that this was not true. What she was saying was not true.”

Both Sclove and Kopin agree on one startling detail: that at some point during sex, Sclove began to cry.
Kopin, the accused man in one such story that has recently made headlines—that of Brown student Lena Sclove—did not volunteer to go public. The decision was made for him by the student newspaper, The Brown Daily Herald, which identified him in an April 23 article detailing Sclove’s charge that the university had mishandled her sexual assault complaint. (Kopin, found responsible for “sexual misconduct” involving non-consensual sexual activity after an October 11 hearing, was suspended for a year and was set to resume classes next fall.) Publications like Slate and Salon picked up the story the next day with the shocking claim that Brown was allowing a rapist who had choked his victim to return to campus after a one-year suspension. In a May 6 appearance on MSNBC, Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY), who has championed the cause of sexual assault survivors on campus, said that Sclove was not only “brutally raped” but “nearly choked to death”; while she did not name Kopin on the air, she asserted that “he should be in jail, not with a one-year suspension.” (While Sclove made a police report seven months after the incident, no criminal charges were ever filed against Kopin.)

By the time Sen. Gillibrand expressed her dismay that Sclove would have to attend classes with her attacker on campus, Kopin had already decided to withdraw from Brown, faced with a blitz of negative publicity as well as campus protests. He was still reluctant to speak to the media, though providing a statement quoted in an earlier article in The Daily Beast. At the end of May, however, Kopin and his parents, Alan and Elizabeth Kopin, agreed to an interview with The Daily Beast in the downtown Boston office of a communications specialist who has been the family’s informal advisor. They also provided the full record of documents from the disciplinary hearing. Together, these documents and narratives paint a picture that illustrates the daunting, wrenching complexity of sexual assault cases involving people who know each other well and may have a sexual history together—cases that often involve emotional ambivalence, mixed signals, and radically different claims about what are supposed to be shared events.

* * *

One irony of this particular story is that Kopin and Sclove share a common background of progressive activism—an interest that helped form a bond between them after both transferred to Brown in January 2013 (Kopin from NYU, Sclove from Tufts). Kopin, the younger of two sons of physician parents, attended the Rashi School, a Boston-area Jewish school that has a strong social justice orientation; both at home and at school, he was raised in an environment where “believing the victim” in a sexual assault case is a widely shared principle. Today, he speaks earnestly of his gratitude for the support he has received from friends who are “who are a part of this feminist community that I’d like to consider myself a part of.”

A mild-mannered young man with a self-effacing smile and a preppy manner, Kopin sometimes sounds as if he still doesn’t quite believe all of this is real. “I don’t why this is happening,” he says, more than once. “I don’t understand.” He says that, after the night of the alleged assault on August 2, he had no inkling that anything was wrong until receiving Sclove’s email several days later.

On some points, Sclove’s and Kopin’s accounts coincide. Both acknowledge that in late July, Kopin told Sclove he wanted to end their sexual relationship, which had started about three weeks earlier, and return to a platonic friendship.

Both acknowledge on August 2, despite this decision, they began flirting at a party, engaged in physical displays of affection, and left the party to go to Kopin’s apartment with the intention of having sex. Both acknowledge that Sclove had an intensely negative reaction when Kopin put his hand on her neck while they were kissing and touching each other in the street. Kopin says that the touch was simply a caress, no different from the way he had touched Sclove before; Sclove has described it as a rough squeeze that was both physically painful and frightening (and led to a spinal injury identified several months later). Both agree that, after Kopin comforted Sclove and she calmed down, they proceeded to go to his place—and that, once they were there and seated on the couch, Sclove told Kopin she did not want to have sex.

At this point, their versions of the events diverge dramatically. Kopin says that he told Sclove he was absolutely fine with her decision and offered to walk her home—but she refused to leave and, moments later, began to kiss him and initiated sex. Sclove acknowledges in her written statement to the disciplinary board that Kopin told her she could go home; however, she writes, “I was far too in shock to walk back alone, but I didn’t want him to walk back with me, remembering what he had done the last time we were walking.”

She claims that Kopin pulled her into his lap, undressed her despite her repeated verbal protests, and had sex with her while she was too shocked, tired, and “fuzzy” from alcohol to push him off. She also says that at some point during the sexual assault, he choked her again. According to Kopin, he put his hand on her neck, in a “gentle manner,” while she was giving him oral sex—at which point she stopped and told him she did not want to be touched that way, and he apologized.

Both Sclove and Kopin agree on one startling detail: that at some point during sex, Sclove began to cry. In her initial statement to the disciplinary board, Sclove wrote that Kopin probably remained unaware of this. In his statement, Kopin wrote that he noticed Sclove was crying and asked if she was all right and if she wanted to stop—to which she responded by kissing him again and continuing to move “energetically” on top of him. (Obviously, it’s a different picture than the one Sclove paints of that evening.) He also reiterated this in our interview: “I asked if everything was okay. We were talking, and she continued to kiss me and was totally fine.” Returning to the subject sometime later, he stressed, “Again, it’s important to point out that I was friends with her. Our conversation that night—in essence, the core for me is that it was a back and forth.”

In her second statement to the panel, in response to Kopin’s account, Sclove seemed to acknowledge that Kopin asked her at that point if she would like to stop; but she insisted that, far from being on top of him, she was pinned underneath him and was “simply not responding.” In the same statement, she admitted that she asked Kopin to get a condom and agreed to perform oral sex—but claimed that she did so only because Kopin seemed intent on having sex with her and these seemed to be the least “horrible” of her options at the time. Kopin, meanwhile, has consistently claimed that Sclove initiated the oral sex and told him she wanted to be on top of him during intercourse.

What is not in dispute is that shortly afterward, Kopin’s three housemates got home, heard sounds indicating a sexual encounter in progress, and knocked on the door to give Kopin and Sclove the opportunity to make themselves decent. The two grabbed their clothes and ran up the stairs to Kopin’s bedroom, where Sclove made it clear that she did not want to continue. She got dressed and left.

Sclove was, at the absolute least, ambivalent; even Kopin acknowledges that. Yet he is also adamant that, despite these moments of hesitation, she clearly demonstrated her consent with no coercion or pressure on his part—and indeed initiated much of the sexual activity. A couple of times during our conversation, he admits that having sex under those circumstances was probably not a good idea: “I’m responsible for that.”

Kopin also claims that a similar pattern of mixed signals was present at the start of their brief sexual relationship: he says that while out for a walk together, they acknowledged their mutual attraction, whereupon Sclove said she wanted to be just friends—but quickly proceeded to kiss him and then initiated sexual contact after they got in his car. This is partly corroborated by two of Kopin’s housemates, who testified before the disciplinary panel in his support. One wrote, “I recall Dan being quite startled recalling this story, as Lena’s physical action conflicted with her words.”

All three of Kopin’s housemates, two men and one woman—the closest there could be to eyewitnesses in this case—provide a further accounting of the events of August 2. They testified that Sclove did not seem frightened or disoriented when she came back downstairs after getting dressed. One reported that “she seemed very uncomfortable, and made a joke about how it was awkward, and we assured her that it was fine. She said she didn’t want us to think of her as ‘that girl.’” Another wrote that Sclove asked them not to tell their other friends that she and Kopin had been together “because she wanted to tell them herself.” The third recalled her smiling.

Also on the record was a text message Sclove sent Kopin after leaving his house, which made no reference to sexual assault but asked him to retrieve her underwear which was still on the couch (“Please find it before they do”).

However, what is also clear from the record is that by the next day—Saturday, August 3—Sclove was already distraught about the incident. Kopin has suggested that Sclove’s therapist encouraged her to see it as a sexual assault (based on her comment in the August 8 email, “I have seen my therapist twice, and she is 100 percent sure that this was rape”). Yet two of Sclove’s friends whom she contacted over the weekend, before seeing her therapist on Monday, confirmed in their statements to the panel that she told them she had been raped.

The record is also decidedly muddled on the key issue of Kopin’s alleged choking of Sclove. One of the friends in whom she confided that weekend wrote that, by Sclove’s account, Kopin “pushed her against a telephone pole” while they were kissing in the street and “put his hand on her upper chest/neck; however Lena felt like she was being strangled and got very freaked out.” The other corroborating witness recalled Sclove saying that Kopin “grabbed her neck” and wrote, “When she said it I looked at her neck and saw the faintest hint of a bruise.”

In a May 2 interview with Amy Goodman on the Democracy Now radio show, Sclove said that her friend “saw the bruises on my neck and said, ‘You need to go to the emergency room’”; however, the friend’s written statement indicates that the suggestion to go to the emergency room was in response to Sclove’s general distress and her story of being raped.

In the August 8 email to Kopin, Sclove did not mention choking, referring to the neck touching as “You crossed a boundary for me.” She also mentioned another detail that never came up during the hearing or in any of the press accounts: that because of the touching, she was “triggered about [her] experience with sexual harassment that week.” This mysterious second incident is described by Kopin from Sclove’s account, and confirmed by a statement from one of Sclove’s own character witnesses: Sclove had recently agreed to go out for coffee with an adult student in an “English for Action” (English as a second language) class she was teaching, after repeatedly turning down his earlier requests for a date. What happened between her and the adult student is unclear, but according to her friend’s statement “she immediately felt uncomfortable with him and shared her frustration with the fact that he was not respecting her no.” Kopin recalls Sclove telling him that she was “afraid to be in Providence” because of the experience.

At the April 22 rally that led to Kopin’s “outing” by the Brown Daily Herald, Sclove asserted that a second woman had submitted a statement to the panel about being sexually assaulted by Kopin—a claim the Herald repeated. That statement is part of the record, though it was ultimately not admitted into the evidence. But, far from alleging sexual assault, the second woman’s testimony explicitly notes, in describing her hook-up with Kopin in February 2013, “It was consensual—in fact, he asked if he could kiss me.”

The woman also wrote that she voluntarily took off most of her clothes and that, while she almost immediately began to regret the encounter, she never told Kopin she wanted to stop. Her grievance against him boiled down to the claim that he “moved [her] body around into whatever positions he felt best in” and seemed interested only in his own pleasure, and that he pushed her head down too forcefully while she was giving him oral sex, causing her to stop and tell him that “that was rude.” Kopin, who disputes parts of this account, comments, “It was very strange to me to see a letter which basically says that I’m a jerk.”

* * *

To say that nobody knows what really happened that night on August 2 except for the two people involved is a cliché; but it also fairly sums up what can be gleaned about this case from the available evidence. The discrepancies between Sclove’s and Kopin’s accounts seem too great to be explained by differences in subjective perception. Is it possible that Sclove felt pressured or intimidated in ways Kopin did not notice or understand? Perhaps. Is it possible that her bad experience with her adult student fatefully colored her perceptions of her interaction with Kopin? That’s the explanation favored by Kopin’s mother, Elizabeth Kopin, who says that as an ob-gyn with over thirty years of practice (she retired last year, due partly to her health issues caused by multiple sclerosis), she has “a painful awareness of what women who are assaulted go through.”

One can certainly argue that even if Kopin’s account is entirely true, he should have been more sensitive to Sclove’s fragile state—especially in view of his earnest protestations that their interaction that night took place “within the context of our friendship”—and should not have pursued what he describes as “a passionate hookup” under the circumstances, even if she mostly initiated it herself. But if Kopin’s account is right, and he acted like a bit of a dolt, that doesn’t add up to “non-consensual sex” for which Kopin was found responsible by the Brown disciplinary panel, let alone to the brutal rape of which he stands convicted in the court of public opinion.

Kopin recalls that, shortly after he was notified of Sclove’s formal charges on August 20, he and his parents went to talk to a Brown official who told them that he would be suspended and that his life would never be the same. “I did not want to believe it,” he says. “But they were right.”

The disciplinary process, he says, was heavily stacked against him. Brown assesses sexual misconduct charges under a “preponderance of the evidence” standard—the lowest legal burden of proof. Theoretically, this means that fact-finders must find in favor of the complainant if they believe it’s even slightly more likely than not that the offense occurred; in practice, many say, it means a great deal of guesswork. That’s the standard by which the federal government has directed schools to judge such complaints ever since a 2011 “Dear Colleague” letter to college and university presidents, a precept reiterated in subsequent documents from the Department of the Justice and the Department of Education. (Until then, most schools had used the much higher “clear and convincing evidence” standard.)

“I think the panel just took everything Lena said as gospel,” Kopin says. Perhaps. But what’s indisputable is that Brown’s justice system bears little resemblance to a traditional court. Kopin’s advisor during the investigation and the hearing was the campus director of dining services, who he says had little knowledge of the disciplinary process. Criminal defense and civil rights attorney Harvey Silverglate, who was retained by the Kopins but was barred from any role in the campus disciplinary process, says in an email, “Dan, because factually innocent of everything except some bad judgment, was suspended for ‘only’ one year, which quite often in today’s academic environment is the penalty for the innocent.”

The Kopins say they remain strongly supportive of the goal of a more effective response to sexual assault. Yet Liz Kopin, who says that talking to her son about Sclove’s charges was “the most painful conversation I could ever imagine,” also acknowledges that the experience has changed the way she views sexual assault allegations. “To have someone misconstrue a situation, perhaps because of a prior assault or abuse, and then make an accusation in such a process where she can destroy a young man’s life—stunning,” she says. “I never, ever would have expected this.”

Even as the White House and Congress step up the pressure on colleges to get even tougher on accused offenders, a backlash is already brewing. In the past several years, there have been more than 20 lawsuits against colleges by male students claiming wrongful expulsion or other damage due to what they claim were false accusations of sexual assault. (As it happens, one of the earliest lawsuits of this sort, in 1996, was against Brown.)

In many ways, the current system of campus trials—in which claims of sexual assault are investigated by gender equity bureaucrats with no background in criminal justice and judged by professors, students, deans, and campus activists, with no clear rules of evidence or protections for the participants—does a grave disservice to both the wrongly accused and to victims who are misleadingly promised a friendlier alternative to law enforcement channels. On at least one point, Sen. Gillibrand is right: if Daniel Kopin is a violent rapist and near-strangler, he should be doing time in prison, not getting suspended or even expelled (the toughest disciplinary sanctions still leave a rapist free to find other victims off-campus). If he is innocent, he has been effectively branded a criminal without any of the safeguards normally accorded to criminal defendants. In the end, nobody wins.

Post: #2

Quote:On some points, Sclove’s and Kopin’s accounts coincide. Both acknowledge that in late July, Kopin told Sclove he wanted to end their sexual relationship, which had started about three weeks earlier, and return to a platonic friendship.

Both acknowledge on August 2, despite this decision, they began flirting at a party, engaged in physical displays of affection, and left the party to go to Kopin’s apartment with the intention of having sex. Both acknowledge that Sclove had an intensely negative reaction when Kopin put his hand on her neck while they were kissing and touching each other in the street. Kopin says that the touch was simply a caress, no different from the way he had touched Sclove before; Sclove has described it as a rough squeeze that was both physically painful and frightening (and led to a spinal injury identified several months later). Both agree that, after Kopin comforted Sclove and she calmed down, they proceeded to go to his place—and that, once they were there and seated on the couch, Sclove told Kopin she did not want to have sex.

At this point, their versions of the events diverge dramatically. Kopin says that he told Sclove he was absolutely fine with her decision and offered to walk her home—but she refused to leave and, moments later, began to kiss him and initiated sex. Sclove acknowledges in her written statement to the disciplinary board that Kopin told her she could go home; however, she writes, “I was far too in shock to walk back alone, but I didn’t want him to walk back with me, remembering what he had done the last time we were walking.”

The guy ends their fuckbuddy relationship. As most guys here understand, a guy usually ends a fuckbuddy relationship only when he's got something better lined up. She is upset! It's one thing for a guy to reject pussy that comes with lots of strings like a relationship and spending time/money/energy on her. But it's quite another to reject free pussy, in particular college age non-obese free pussy. So she knows he is moving on to better pussy.

We know she has issues to begin with as she already has a therapist. How many college girls have therapists?

It's not clear whether she actively plans to frame him or if she's all fucked up from the prior sexual harassment incident with the other guy. But obviously this guy doesn't sound like the type to choke a girl in the street. She is fucked in the head.

So they get to his place and she says I don't want to have sex. Every muthafucka in this joint knows that you aren't going to rape pussy that you were quite happy to discard earlier in the week. So I believe him when he says that he was fine with her initial decision to not have sex. And once he casually says "OK" to her claim to not want sex (despite accompanying him to his place), she is even more insulted because he is not even fazed that she is denying him her body. So she initiates sex, perhaps just to convince herself that she is indeed desirable.

Post: #3

This is bullshit. Its obvious from the evidence mentioned that the guy is innocent.

Post: #4

Quote:WASHINGTON, D.C. (June 9, 2014): Colleges being asked by U.S. Senator Claire McCaskil how they deal with allegations of rape and sexual assault are being advised by attorneys to “lawyer up,” while more male students found guilty of rape or sexual assault by their universities are bringing law suits – almost a dozen of which have already been successful – charging that the institutions badly “screwed up” both the investigations and the campus hearings, notes public interest law professor John Banzhaf.

In a slide show of legal advice prepared by lawyers for member universities of the American Council on Education [ACE] which received the inquiries, universities were warned about responding to the survey about rape and sexual assault because it could lead to “reputational harm,” “additional investigations” and “litigation,” and also cause “public relations risks.”

Lawyers reminded the universities, as they do large corporations accused of wrongdoing, that a congressional request for information “is not a subpoena”; that they can often duck by looking for an “opportunity to recast the questions”; and should be mindful of “what will play well on TV.”

ACE originally even refused McCaskil’s request for copies of slides used in a legal slide show to warn representatives of universities how to make their answers “bulletproof,” and provided the slides only once it became clear that copies had surfaced and were about to be published.

Reportedly, ACE is still refusing to tell the senator which institutions attended the “lawyer up” slide show. Meanwhile, colleges are facing a possibly more serious challenge as many male students found guilty of rape or sexual assault by their institutions are taking them to court and winning:

BROWN I – she didn’t remember the event, he said the sex was consensual, but was found guilty; was reported on TV as case of “When Yes Means No”; case settled by university

BROWN II – student charged the school interfered with his efforts to clear his name because of pressure from accuser’s father, an influential alum and a major donor; lawsuit settled by university

DENISON – accused passed lie detector test, was found guilty anyway by university, sued on ten different legal grounds including violation of rights; case settled by university

DUKE I – famous case involving lacrosse players, law suit charged conspiracy to fame players, and was settled by the university for an undisclosed amount

DUKE II – judge very recently prohibited university from expelling a student convicted of rape, because of alleged pressure on the campus tribunal to get tough on rapists

GEORGE WASHINGTON – was forced to settle a case where a former student sued the school for allegedly unfairly convicting him of sexual assault

HOLY CROSS – school policy held male responsible if both parties were drunk; university’s “responsible” finding was overturned; he was returned to school with no adverse mark on transcript

OCCIDENTAL – order of stay granted by the court when the student complained about improper procedures and definitions used in the campus proceeding which convicted him

SAINT JOSEPH – federal judge upheld lawsuit brought by male student against university, a university employee, and even the female complainant, under several novel legal theories

UNIVERSITY OF THE SOUTH – jury ruled university was negligent in a case that found a student guilty of sexual assault, saying that it did not follow its own published procedures

XAVIER – judge upheld a law suit, based upon many different legal theories, by a male student against his university which had earlier found him guilty of rape; university then settled

Also, late last week, in a case with some striking parallels, a military appeals court overturned a Marine’s rape and sexual assault convictions because of the unfairness of pressure to convict from higher ups; an allegation common to several students’ complaints

Meanwhile, law suits filed by students convicted by their universities of rape and/or sexual assault are pending against Bucknell, Cincinnati, Columbia, Delaware State, Depauw, Drew, Kenyon, U of Michigan, Philadelphia U, Swarthmore, Vassar, Williams, and perhaps others.

More such legal challenges are likely to be brought as pressure from the President, several federal agencies, women’s rights organizations, and individual women and groups on campus result in more findings of guilt where they may not be warranted by the facts and/or because the procedures used did not protect the accused student’s rights, says Banzhaf.

This may be especially true as the federal government pressures schools to convict, not where the evidence establishes proof beyond a reasonable doubt (the usual standard in rape cases) or even by clear and convincing evidence, but rather where the conclusion is based upon a mere preponderance of evidence.

This means that, in many “he said, she said” cases where there is no other corroborating evidence and the two students’ stories conflict, the campus tribunal just has to find her story a little bit more convincing than his to expel the male student and scar him for life, says Banzhaf, who has brought more than 100 successful legal proceedings charging sex discrimination against women.

Finding sexual assault by a mere preponderance of evidence may be appropriate where the consequence is a campus-wide restraining order, or a mandated move to another dorm or class to avoid facing the female complainant, but some higher standard may be required by law when the penalty, as in the Duke case, is expulsion plus loss of a diploma which he earned and is needed for his new job, says Banzhaf.

One major problem confronting prosecutions for date rape is that among the 50 states and the District of Columbia, only 17 explicitly prohibit rape involving penetration without consent. For example, in North Carolina, the home of Duke, a man is not guilty of rape when he simply sexually penetrates a female without her consent, providing that no force is used or threatened.

More specifically, in North Carolina, a male is guilty of first degree rape only if the intercourse is inflicted by “force and against the will of the other person,” whereas to constitute second degree rape, the defendant must have vaginal intercourse with someone who is “physically helpless.”

But North Carolina’s narrow definition of “physically helpless” – unconscious or unable to resist or communicate – may not include the all-too-familiar situation of a female university student whose ability to meaningfully consent may have been significantly impaired by alcohol, although she can still move, speak, and sometimes even exchange email or text messages, says Banzhaf.

Since so many date rape complaints allege that sex occurred without the female student’s consent, but without the use of force or the threat of force, prosecutions may not be successful, or are likely to be overturned on appeal, even if the victim’s testimony of the events which occurred is believed, says Banzhaf, who is working on new procedures to improve date rape proceedings.

http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/189975/

Post: #5

Quote:Kopin’s advisor during the investigation and the hearing was the campus director of dining services

What a fucking joke.

Everything you need to know, right there.

Post: #6

I think there's starting to be a little bit of a backlash lately against the college rape hysteria. Starting to see more articles like these that show a more balanced view.

Hopefully men and boys are starting to wake up.

Post: #7

These are just witch hunts.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 1% of good looking chicks in these campus "women's rights groups" plan this shit in advance.

They go into a situation, no matter what happens, with the intent to frame for shits and giggles.

And why is the fucking federal gov't getting involved with this non-issue? Go fix the fucking economy you assholes.

Post: #8

Communist douche bags discover their ideals have consequences…

Story at 11.

Post: #9

(06-09-2014 11:37 PM)runsonmagic Wrote:  

Quote:Kopin’s advisor during the investigation and the hearing was the campus director of dining services

What a fucking joke.

Everything you need to know, right there.

I know. This poor kid is in for the fight of his life. His good name, reputation etc. in on the line. And the guy representing him needs to speed the process along because there is a delivery of 500 cans of nacho cheese coming in half an hour.

Post: #10

Slam dunk case in favor of Kopin from my read of the facts. He obviously should not have been suspended or had his name dragged through the mud for several reasons that many others have pointed out.

Despite how egregious this particular case is, though, the really disturbing part to me is how fucked up the process has become. Denying the kid the right to an attorney in favor an "adviser" who was the fucking dining director and admitted openly to not being very knowledgeable about the process is comically unfair of course, but the part I have a really hard time understanding is why anybody believes using a "preponderance of the evidence" standard is at all appropriate. In saying it is, the Justice Department and colleges are implicitly saying that they believe it's acceptable outcome if for every 1000 convictions, 501 guilty people and 499 innocent people get their lives ruined.

It's disgraceful that kangaroo courts like this have any place in a Western liberal democracy. Feminism has really metastasized.

Post: #11

Guys, there is a way to "choke" a girl that is consensual like BDSM (search for it on the forum), but from a quick glance it looked like this guy might have had bad "choke" game.

Post: #12

I wonder if Daniel Kopin will make the connection and start rejecting all the other progressive baloney out there.

Post: #13

Key take away words are Jewish, progressive, feminist communities, and well mannered young man.

Sounds like a nice male feminist got skewered.

Post: #14

It's funny how these guys always talk themselves deeper into a hole thinking that they should be as honest as possible. The problem is that if you're one of those "nice guys", you tend to assume the girl isn't just crazy and you take her perception of the events into consideration. The risk there is that since memory is fluid, the nice guy is likely to remember events in a manner that tries to avoid outright dismissing the other side because he's too beta to contradict the girl's story. Unfortunately that sort of conflict avoidant approach is like covering yourself in seal blood and jumping into a shark tank.

"Well she never said no and seemed into it, but she did start crying and complained when I touched her neck, etc." = Ah, so she wanted you to stop but you kept going because YOU thought she wasn't protesting enough, you RAPIST!!!!1!

"She participated enthusiastically and never gave me any indication that she wanted me to stop." = Statement that can't be twisted into an admission of guilt.

Post: #15

Reading this makes me fear sleeping with crazy college girls or any girls for that matter

At any point during consensual sex the girl could pull something like this and your whole life is ruined

Post: #16

(06-10-2014 09:25 AM)Valhalla Wrote:  Reading this makes me fear sleeping with crazy college girls or any girls for that matter

At any point during consensual sex the girl could pull something like this and your whole life is ruined

Yep. Lots of girls enjoy being choked, but I care much less about their enjoyment than I do my own freedom, so when I do choke, it's very, very light (more for show than actual air restriction). If I leave marks on them, and they have a twinge of regret the next day, they have physical evidence in addition to their word.

Post: #17

Isn't this guy part of a feminist community? He doesn't see the fields for the sheep by the looks of his response.

Post: #18

(06-09-2014 08:40 PM)assman Wrote:  

Quote:On some points, Sclove’s and Kopin’s accounts coincide. Both acknowledge that in late July, Kopin told Sclove he wanted to end their sexual relationship, which had started about three weeks earlier, and return to a platonic friendship.

Both acknowledge on August 2, despite this decision, they began flirting at a party, engaged in physical displays of affection, and left the party to go to Kopin’s apartment with the intention of having sex. Both acknowledge that Sclove had an intensely negative reaction when Kopin put his hand on her neck while they were kissing and touching each other in the street. Kopin says that the touch was simply a caress, no different from the way he had touched Sclove before; Sclove has described it as a rough squeeze that was both physically painful and frightening (and led to a spinal injury identified several months later). Both agree that, after Kopin comforted Sclove and she calmed down, they proceeded to go to his place—and that, once they were there and seated on the couch, Sclove told Kopin she did not want to have sex.

At this point, their versions of the events diverge dramatically. Kopin says that he told Sclove he was absolutely fine with her decision and offered to walk her home—but she refused to leave and, moments later, began to kiss him and initiated sex. Sclove acknowledges in her written statement to the disciplinary board that Kopin told her she could go home; however, she writes, “I was far too in shock to walk back alone, but I didn’t want him to walk back with me, remembering what he had done the last time we were walking.”

The guy ends their fuckbuddy relationship. As most guys here understand, a guy usually ends a fuckbuddy relationship only when he's got something better lined up. She is upset! It's one thing for a guy to reject pussy that comes with lots of strings like a relationship and spending time/money/energy on her. But it's quite another to reject free pussy, in particular college age non-obese free pussy. So she knows he is moving on to better pussy.

We know she has issues to begin with as she already has a therapist. How many college girls have therapists?

It's not clear whether she actively plans to frame him or if she's all fucked up from the prior sexual harassment incident with the other guy. But obviously this guy doesn't sound like the type to choke a girl in the street. She is fucked in the head.

So they get to his place and she says I don't want to have sex. Every muthafucka in this joint knows that you aren't going to rape pussy that you were quite happy to discard earlier in the week. So I believe him when he says that he was fine with her initial decision to not have sex. And once he casually says "OK" to her claim to not want sex (despite accompanying him to his place), she is even more insulted because he is not even fazed that she is denying him her body. So she initiates sex, perhaps just to convince herself that she is indeed desirable.

"The guy ends their fuckbuddy relationship. As most guys here understand, a guy usually ends a fuckbuddy relationship only when he's got something better lined up. She is upset! It's one thing for a guy to reject pussy that comes with lots of strings like a relationship and spending time/money/energy on her. But it's quite another to reject free pussy, in particular college age non-obese free pussy. So she knows he is moving on to better pussy."

We should re-title this post: This is what happens when women get friendzoned.

Post: #19

This story is like a gigantic agree and amplify for this guy. How many others retreat to the shadows, hide and deny when accused of false rape. This guy has come right out and said "This is my name, I fucked this girl and she cried, here is what happened" vs. staying anonymous and just having her crazy version of events stay out there.

Also, this gives me the story is unsettling as I have had many similar experiences with girls alternating between crying and ripping my pants off. Its called 'breakup sex'

Post: #20

If this happens to me in college there is no way I'm going to sit around and let it happen. I'll fight back with everything I've got anybody who calls me a rapist will be sued for slander.

Post: #21

The only solution I see is for men in college to go on a dating strike and refuse to date their co-eds. It is the only way to be safe. The risk of getting reamed by a FRA has simply become too big. Men need to understand that they cannot afford to have their educations and their future career tracks derailed by cray cray college poonani.

Post: #22

The guy's problem is that he is way too nice.

First of all, he should have kicked her bat shit crazy ass out of his apartment. I don't care if she doesn't want to walk home alone she can sleep in the fucking hallway then. I think it is ridiculous that he said she could leave and she didn't. If it really was a rape she would have been gone, but what rapist gives the girl an opportunity to leave anyway?

When he failed to do that he should have lit this bitch up, drug her name through the mud and thrown their whole sexual history out there, every detail and every fucked up thing about this broad.

It seems like this girl, her friends, and her therapist collectively "decided" that she had been raped like they diagnosed it or something. Are the pictures of this girl's bruises as evidence?

This shit is really starting to irk me. I've kicked two girls to the curb for being crazy like this in the last year.

There are enough girls who will enthusiastically slurp on your cock to put up with these crazy ones, but thirsty dudes will never be able to do it.

Not only do betas finish last, they also get accused of rape.

Post: #23

"I wonder if Daniel Kopin will make the connection and start rejecting all the other progressive baloney out there."

Highly doubtful. I find it hard to sympathize with this guy when he actively backed the ideology that screwed him. Justice is living with the consequences of your world view. If you promote a world that prizes perversion and evil, you cannot complain when those demons come to haunt *you*.

Post: #24

I wonder what happens to or if anything happens to girls that falsely accuse men of rape?

Look what happened to Mike Tyson, he went to jail probably cause he didn't walk to the door.

Post: #25

Alpha fucks, beta rape accusations.