I have started with Zhytomyr, a city of about 300K, was there for a private issue none girls related.
The city had very limited nightlife, the 2 main clubs called 'Dodo' and 'Indigo', only the 2nd open in midweek (and not all days) and even in sat. night in Dodo there were about 20-25 girls total. There are few bars/ cafes: 'Cava plus', 'Pleasant-vile' , 'Shultz' - all are built to sit in a table and not western style mingling type. Low percentage of English speaking, no bangs, few phone without much progress, waste of time for banging. few dozenz soldiers were killed in east Ukraine and there is a memorial with flowers for them in the city but other than that no feel of war or anything alike.
Prices are cheap. Beer in club is ~2-3$, local vodka 50ml- 1.5$, Cover 3$

Kiev was completely different story, the talent there is unbelievable, super hot ladies everywhere. I was in weekend and it was hard to choose where to go out as of the many options, went to 'Coyote ugly' couple of times was very good, to 'Sorry babushka' - smaller place with good music and also tried a locals place outside of the center called 'Franklin' which was not good. From nightlife I could only get a make out in Babushka with medium level looking girl.
I also worked hard on Mamba.ru and there it is like many are semi-pros. I have a dated a girl which conditioned the meeting for Sushi place which she choose, did not give me even a kiss in the end... Many there either will ask for actual cash (P2P), long term sponsorship or just that you invite them to food and drink which still they can just use you for it and not giving pussy.
I did manage to meet some normal girls, they were all very suspicious why I am there and all aware of the sex tourism and if I am seen like sex tourist - no chance with them.
So I left with mixed feelings, on one hand the amount of talent is amazing, on the other hand its like it is very hard to get pussy. I am not a top player though and I also hate the behavior of the semi-pros, some guy told me I could band them eventually without pay actual cash but I cant stand this kind of "relationship"
I am sure there is a way to get to the normal girls and probably there are better nightlife spots.
Kreshatik is full with barricades and some mess there but also in Kie vno real problems and it looks safe.
Prices are for sure higher than the small city but still quite fine for a westerner to live in upper standard. Cover is 6-8$

So far in Kiev after a week:

1. 1 Bang, she is student, 22, 166cm, 50kg, cute face, 6.5-7. Met her in a party, talked a lot there, then couple of dates both were 4-5 hours plus lunch/dinner. Nice but I feel like I wasted a lot of time for too less as also the sex was mediocre and it seems there will be no more.

2. Few dozens of phone numbers, some from Mamba, some from parties and 1 from day game. But although numbers are easy to get, 80-90% will not reach to a meeting(!), girls are highly flaking, even can set a date and location and not arrive without explanation, writing later they were out of town... Mamba meetings - girls looked much less than photos. It seems that I need something strong to convince for a date.

3. As in Roosh bang Ukraine book, girls expects something in return for everything. One girl from Mamba, a bit chubby about 5.5, after 1st date of coffee and cake I have asked her to come over for a "movie and wine" and she reply that if I buy her a perfume before then she will come... I did not surely.

4. In the clubs a lot of "taking advantage" girls, which ask for expensive cocktails and gives nothing in return. I refused one just to see later other foreigner buys her many drinks over 2 hours and not get even a kiss(!) later outside when all looking for taxis she offered me to come with her friend to eat after the guy dumped her and left as he understand he wont get any. I considered it but in 5 minutes they already get into taxi with a Ukrainian guy without even saying goodbye...
In another night when an 8 asked me for a cocktail I have told her straight forward that I will buy only after a kiss, after a quick dry kiss I have told her this is not a real kiss and eventually I got to french kiss her for about 10 minutes until she finished the cocktail and buzz off. It was worth it
Those girl might be bangable but I have yet to crack the formula, and also it is not fun to game them.

5. On the positive side, the talent and ratios are maybe the best I have seen all over. I am focusing now on girls like the one I have banged but in the ~8 look, as those are less business minded and users and have better personality, although they do take time to bed. Prices are also cheap now after the crisis as $/Gryvna rate is much better. (Too bad the crisis not effecting the girls)

I have winged with a guy for few days but now he left. Open to suggestions / questions / tips.

Specifically I am looking for some sort of pickup bar for evenings (21:00-00:00) or something similar for midweek as clubs are quite empty and anyhow I must sleep early as I work at 8:00 AM.

Thanks for honest and nice reporting.

Damn that sounds terrible except for chic watching

Kiev seems like it'd be a beautiful city to visit, especially in the summer...with the Dnieper River, history, etc.

Diego, are you seeing the crisis affecting the nightlife at all? Are the places like Vodka bar, Arena Center or Mafia "dead" due to all the undesirables still hanging out around Kreshchatyk? Would you say that many people are too depressed or broke to go out due to the sad economic conditions?

(06-19-2014 09:26 PM)TripleG Wrote:  Diego, are you seeing the crisis affecting the nightlife at all? Are the places like Vodka bar, Arena Center or Mafia "dead" due to all the undesirables still hanging out around Kreshchatyk? Would you say that many people are too depressed or broke to go out due to the sad economic conditions?

Vodka bar I heard its closed, but it is worst place for 'good' girls and the bad ones are P2P or something sort of.
I dont like Arena at all as it is luxurious place which either attracts foreigners, 300$ hookers or upper class girls with no real chance to get them.
Mafia places I saw few and they are busy, more for sitting, surely you can approach there.
In general Fri+Sat are full almost anywhere, Thu+Sun also good days, check specific events. Wed- student party in Forsage, lot of talent... girls getting drunk, easy to make out, hard to pull. Mon-Tue - quite dead, was in shooters in Monday, ~30 people, girls were below par.


No, south from there near old soviet building.

[/quote]
In general Fri+Sat are full almost anywhere, Thu+Sun also good days, check specific events. Wed- student party in Forsage, lot of talent... girls getting drunk, easy to make out, hard to pull. Mon-Tue - quite dead, was in shooters in Monday, ~30 people, girls were below par.
[/quote]

Great update. Did you do approaches for hotter girls like 8+ ? How did it go ?
Did you try Caribbean Club ?

In general Fri+Sat are full almost anywhere, Thu+Sun also good days, check specific events. Wed- student party in Forsage, lot of talent... girls getting drunk, easy to make out, hard to pull. Mon-Tue - quite dead, was in shooters in Monday, ~30 people, girls were below par.
[/quote]

Great update. Did you do approaches for hotter girls like 8+ ? How did it go ?
Did you try Caribbean Club ?
[/quote]

I approach even for 9s, when I am a bit tipsy and good mood I am an approaching machine- this is normally in clubs.
Phones are easy to get even from 8+, but as written most would even not come to a date, its hard to make progress.
Did not try the Caribbean yet, I am not a good salsa dancer so I guess I would not be a star there.
In general if you target the 'good' girls which are not seems at least to look for sponsor or gifts they will not give their pussy easy.
This is my experience, I guess good players can pool better.

ONS, at last, and it was a lucky one.
Was in one of the beach clubs on the Dniper, was awful evening, ratios of F/M were bad, girls were very defensive and claimed not to speak english. Still I kept trying while watching ecuador-honduras on the background.
Around 3am it was enough for me and went out for a taxi when I saw 2 nice girls just standing near the entrance, 1st was brunette, around 1.65, a bit overweight but with nice tits, maybe 6.5, 2nd was tall thin blond, 9 on first look. It seems that they lost their friends which went home and had no cash for taxi, the 6.5 was drunk and asked me for money for it, I used the kiss trade and got it, but then I said this is not such a good kiss and manage to deal 2 french kisses, one from each for total of 50 Gryvna (less than 5$...). While the 6.5 kissed just to get away with it, the blond put a good effort for a passionate kiss.
I gave them the money and they gone. After I took my jacket and went out to get a taxi myself happy with the kisses for petty cash especially with that 9, suddenly I see her out and she lost the 6.5 with the money I gave her and was texting and calling without luck.
I told her if she wants money for taxi she should come with me to my hotel for 30 minutes, no sex, I have wine and chocolate. Some additional kissed and it worked.
While in the hotel she put some stubborn resistance ('I am a good girl') but eventually gave out after I licked her all over.
She is practically 8.5 as although she is beautiful with model body I saw some flaws which prevents her from being real 9.
Today I tried to call her again for another round but she said that now I need to take her for dinner and buy flowers and then maybe she will come to the room.
lessons learned:
Even in the worst place you can pull.
Near clubs game is better than inside (in some cases)
What a desperate drunk girl will do in 3am is much more than sober the day later.

I am sure you gave her lot more than 50 gryvnia.

(06-21-2014 02:25 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  I am sure you gave her lot more than 50 gryvnia.

I understand that this is how it works for you in Kiev?
So try to follow my advise from this post and go to mostly local places and not the usual shooters, arena etc.
Yesterday I was in Bora Bora on the hdyropark, had plenty of talks and couple of phone numbers. There was plenty of talent. There is also Olmeca club near also good. Those places are hot during the summer.

Additional thoughts.
I prefer some semi-girlfriend as I stay for few weeks (and few visits) and I prefer my sex guaranteed in the morning/afternoon sober and not low chance and drunk at 4am. So the night outs for me is more to gather numbers + some day/ internet game to increase my coverage.
Other than the low dating rate/phone numbers ratio and flakiness as mentioned in point 2 above my main problem was wasting time on girls with no real chance to bang, those that use me for lunch/dinners and or drinks in clubs. Few examples of the users girls:

A. 8, super sexy although a bit overweight, asked to meet me near her far metro, choose a sushi place which she already planned what to order before, ate and enjoy the sushi and when I try to touch her hand after when walking she make some disgusted face
B. Girl which came to meet me in the club with her friend(girl), bought them few drinks for couple of hours, tight dancing with my girl but refused a kiss few times. Later they left with Ukrainian guys they met outside the club
C. Girl which I really liked, 7.5, very smart and fun to be with, fluent English, all the dates ended up in restaurant she choose ('I know this great pizza place') although not fancy places and told me some dramatic story (+a tear) about how someone broke her heart and she is not open yet for another boyfriend. When in the last date I told her that as long as we friends I will not buy her lunch/dinner, although she said this is fine and she understand me- I did not saw her again since.

I believe now I am more smart to recognize them and I will use those tactics:
1. Girls who asks for a drink in the club - niet - or get something immediate in return ('I buy drink only after first kiss' expecting a french, 'only after slow dance','I have champagne in my room')
2. Girl which I meet in the club and do not ask for a drink, offer her a drink after a good 15-20 minutes of talking. 2nd drink only in another venue isolating her from her friends or take phone for a later date.
3. 1st date- only drinks. I am not shy to say it, although I might look cheap, I just say directly to them that to avoid girls which uses me for food. If she really likes me she will come. With an exception, If the girl is super hot (8.5) and have no signs of a user then maybe choose quality local restaurant like Katyusha which is relatively cheap, but anyhow the issue is not the cost but rather show her that I expect something in return.
4. Dates in walking distance from my room because of:
a. Easy logistics for invitation to the room after.
b. Girl which invest in travel is more likely to like me as she put some effort on her side. (Although girl C. above invested 3-4 hours per date include travel to get her trophy meal)
c. If a girl flake in last moment, which can happen then I did not waste time to travel.
5. If there is no kiss in the 1st date (after 2-3 attempts)- no 2nd date, and tell her that in the end of date ('So I guess we are only friends'). Or keep her as a friend for meeting her friends and other social events.
6. Day game much more, though it is quite difficult for me because of the mood and cold approaches this will yield better results.
a. When I see the girl in daylight sober (as well as she) I can see her real look and not surprise the day after with a 6 which looked to me 8 in the club.
b. Can lead to instant date and as I have noticed most girls will not say no to a quick coffee even if they are in a hurry.
c. Increase my coverage much more, instead of working only 4-5 hours 2-3 nights per week in clubs, I have all days.
d. Girls which are not clubbers are less likely to be users and have better personality in general.
7. 2nd / 3rd date at her house! After discussion about what she knows to cook, ask her to cook for me and offer to buy the ingredients and some wine.

If you have other ideas for me it would be great.

Quote:8, super sexy although a bit overweight

You realize that you basically committed an oxymoron

That is like the friend who has a fat friend with a pretty face BS.

Your list of tactics can be condensed:
1. You choose ALL venues. She isn't your GF and dating isn't a democracy. Their own men don't get suckered so why should you?
It doesn't even have to be only drinks. Scout out cool low cost cafes where 'piece' of cake is on the menu.
2. Find out what she likes and order for her. Again....as a man you are expected to lead and provide NOT seek approval.
3, Tell them you hate fish and Sushi and make sure you never enter a Japanese or Seafood place. This wins you half the battle in the 1st place.
4. If you already went on a date with a girl it is ok to bring her to a club if you like clubbing but why would you invite out a girl to meet you there as a first date? I would thing they will bring someone 90% of the time since few girls go to a club alone and nightlife is expensive if your buying. Night clubs are perfect for getting numbers and going far in a 1st meeting. Having a girl there gets in your own way of meeting others.

5. I wouldn't rule out traveling on metro to meet them if you are sure it is near their home. Women usually invite a guy close to home if they like them. But again...a date like that should be a walk in the park or coffee shop. Stop having girls tell you where they want to go. UA girls are submissive and obedient.If she isn't acting that way you don't want her anyway.

Get a map and find cool cafes, and free parks in ares that you plan on dating or meeting chicks. Also a GOOD girl (UA) will generally ask if it is ok to order what she is ordering before she does..red flag if she doesn't.

(06-21-2014 01:55 PM)diego69 Wrote:  ONS, at last, and it was a lucky one.
Was in one of the beach clubs on the Dniper, was awful evening, ratios of F/M were bad, girls were very defensive and claimed not to speak english. Still I kept trying while watching ecuador-honduras on the background.
Around 3am it was enough for me and went out for a taxi when I saw 2 nice girls just standing near the entrance, 1st was brunette, around 1.65, a bit overweight but with nice tits, maybe 6.5, 2nd was tall thin blond, 9 on first look. It seems that they lost their friends which went home and had no cash for taxi, the 6.5 was drunk and asked me for money for it, I used the kiss trade and got it, but then I said this is not such a good kiss and manage to deal 2 french kisses, one from each for total of 50 Gryvna (less than 5$...). While the 6.5 kissed just to get away with it, the blond put a good effort for a passionate kiss.
I gave them the money and they gone. After I took my jacket and went out to get a taxi myself happy with the kisses for petty cash especially with that 9, suddenly I see her out and she lost the 6.5 with the money I gave her and was texting and calling without luck.
I told her if she wants money for taxi she should come with me to my hotel for 30 minutes, no sex, I have wine and chocolate. Some additional kissed and it worked.
While in the hotel she put some stubborn resistance ('I am a good girl') but eventually gave out after I licked her all over.
She is practically 8.5 as although she is beautiful with model body I saw some flaws which prevents her from being real 9.
Today I tried to call her again for another round but she said that now I need to take her for dinner and buy flowers and then maybe she will come to the room.
lessons learned:
Even in the worst place you can pull.
Near clubs game is better than inside (in some cases)
What a desperate drunk girl will do in 3am is much more than sober the day later.

So basically you fucked a sponsor girl? Not to be harsh or anything. Just reading it the way you played it out. Although banging a model looking girl for just some flowers and dinner seems like a fucking good deal.

Reading this I think you're doing ok, it's a hard town because of the sex tourists and how notoriously the girls treat sex as a transaction, so keep at it.