Post: #1

I think I recall something along these lines being addressed in a thread here on the forum. I found this today and it made me think of my service as a soldier back in the day, and when I was embedded as a civilian advisor in a Marine Battalion. It took me years to stop thinking about going back into the military because I didn't have that closeness that I felt with service members. If you watch this video you'll get a better understanding of why guys hang out at the VFW Hall, and why Jarheads get together for cake on the Marine Corps birthday.

Quote:Civilians don’t miss war. But soldiers often do. Journalist Sebastian Junger shares his experience embedded with American soldiers at Restrepo, an outpost in Afghanistan's Korengal Valley that saw heavy combat. Giving a look at the "altered state of mind" that comes with war, he shows how combat gives soldiers an intense experience of connection. In the end, could it actually be "the opposite of war" that soldiers miss?

https://www.ted.com/talks/sebastian_jung...s_miss_war

Post: #2

On the same topic, this is an article that has always stuck with me from an issue of Esquire that I must have read at a dentist's office.

Why Men Love War

Post: #3

Men love the fight, not the part where they lose and their people, wives and children included are raped, tortured and murdered. Or their friends into a mist of blood and bones.

I am fascinated by war but I also realise the brutality of it and yet it is still being held to some sort of standard where its a "mystery" as to why men love it. It flips your brain into an animal-like state and once you're thrown into civilian life you're still living in that state of mind.

I'm surprised more don't flip a lid and go bezerk.

Post: #4

Peacetime veteran and warzone civilian, although some of the "peacetime" service was highly stressful.

War changed me. I'm not sure whether in a good way or a bad way, might take awhile to sort that out.

I understand the thrill of it, for sure. But I know some guys who are mentally ruined, too.

The William Broyles piece Sawyer linked to is excellent. I've read it a few times over the years.

Post: #5

Yeah they miss war for seemingly two reasons, the comradery and brotherhood as well as the adrenaline rush. Heck going way back in time thats why motorcycle clubs started so vets could have those two things in their lives. That said I think part of it is also just getting comfortable to a certain lifestyle or routine. Same reason convicts keep going back to prison, thats the life they have become comfortable with and even though its a shitty existance its what they are used to. I was in one of these bootcamp deals when I was a teenager and I couldn't wait to get out but that said when you get out its wierd adjusting back to normal life.

Post: #6

War is the most profound thing there is. The worst times of your life become some of the best times in retrospect, and in the end retrospect is all that matters.

It's all about the brotherhood. Shared misery has a funny effect on people. It's almost comical to think I miss some of that, but I've never found that bond outside of the military.

That's the reason I decided to go back in.

Post: #7

Most of us do not miss war as we realize that those who are close to us may perish. What many of us miss is the bond that exists between the man on our right and the man on our left. To be able to entrust your life to another man as he entrusts his life to you is a noble thing that is a reflection of brotherhood.

audentis fortuna iuvat

Post: #8

It's the same appeal as joining a gang. It gives you a family of sorts.

Post: #9

I know a guy who served 3 combat tours for the Army in Iraq.

He's been back for about 4-5 years now. He's now collecting disability for PTSD and/or clinical depression and stays home every single day and plays Call of Duty for hours on end with a team of fellow Iraq vets online. He says he's just addicted to the adrenaline of combat missions...and he just can't go back to being a 9 to 5er after what he went through over there.

Post: #10

Being forced to go through tough experiences with no way out and no way to quit is going to bond people strongly no matter what. This isn't news.

But there is nothing like the military in civilian life and it's borderline insulting to hear civilians talk about the military like they have a fucking clue what the life is like and the real sacrifices it involves; especially in the wake of the grueling post-9/11 OPS tempo where the civilian leadership squeezed every drop and them some out of the military.

At times, it can be very hard to relate to civilians post-military service. They really have no concept of what it means to forfeit your rights and become government property; to see people you work with be mentally or physically destroyed. To put your ass on the line with no way to quit. I don't resent civilians for not understanding completely; just those that belittle or try to talk like they have a clue about the experience. I think this feeling of social isolation and lack of understanding from the general populace largely contributes to the desire to go back; to return to a world where the people around you truly understand your perspective and the struggle.

Post: #11

Really great book about this came out about a decade ago, "War Is A Force That Gives Us Meaning".

Quote:"The enduring attraction of war is this: Even with its destruction and carnage it can give us what we long for in life. It can give us purpose, meaning, a reason for living. Only when we are in the midst of conflict does the shallowness and vapidness of much of our lives become apparent. Trivia dominates our conversations and increasingly our airwaves. And war is an enticing elixir. It gives us resolve, a cause. It allows us to be noble. And those who have the least meaning in their lives, the impoverished refugees in Gaza, the disenfranchised North African immigrants in France, even the legions of young who live in the splendid indolence and safety of the industrialized world, are all susceptible to war's appeal."

Post: #12

I can see some hardcore vets missing modern warfare, with the latest and greatest technology, plus our military superiority to lesser forces. Not trying to say that its a cake-walk at all, I'm sure it's very brutal in its own right, but I don't think anyone reminisces over World War I or World War II.

Post: #13

I could & should write a book about this one. Anybody else from Ft. Hood, Ft. Irwin or Ft. Leonardwood here? JBB/Anaconda, Warhorse, or Basra? Why do I miss Iraq and Active Duty Army life? I'd say because you feel like you are living life on the highest level you've ever been. I went from working in warehouses as a civilian & not enjoying life, to being a soldier who felt like he was finally a somebody, especially while in Iraq, to getting my honorable discharge at the end of my contract a few months after getting home, and now back to working warehouses (now with child support & a divorce). If our Army ever decides to grow again & let qualified Vets back into Active Duty, I will be there asap & staying in long term. It killed me to see on the news DAESH/ISIS spreading across some of the same areas I had been. As much as I question the establishment & the truthfulness of the original reasons for the invasion of Iraq, there was nothing better than getting a steady paycheck, Federal Govt Employee benefits, the camaraderie, & the organized chaos lifestyle overall that goes on, good & bad.

I was part of 14 months of Operation Enduring Freedom from '08-'10, Combat Engineers. Most real Veterans will not tell you their most crazy stories & if you do come across someone telling some Rambo style craziness, be skeptical. Most of the real Vets will never open up like that unless it's with people we know & really trust. That being said, I consider the following a normal memory that isn't trying too hard to impress people. Just a small part of what goes on there. I've got my VA Card for anybody who wants visual proof.

One my fav memories that was part of our nightly routine... Lighting up a fresh Cigar that just came in the mail with my boys in the middle of the night looking at the stars, hearing the prayer call from the nearby Mosque, occasionally hearing the incoming mortar alarm go off, and then watching the C-RAM (20MM Gattling Gun Auto Defense system) blast the incoming mortars out of the sky over our heads You might not believe it but this becomes a normal part of your life. You will eventually be sleeping & turning up your earbuds during these scenarios to mask the noise.

This vid someone else posted to youtube definitely captures the moment of when most of us seen this $hit in person for the first time..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__OaITubFd8

Post: #14

One thing that makes me look back on my time with fondness, is the utter simplicity of it all. Life was a routine of cleaning weapons, standing watch, eating, drinking and sometimes sleep. That was about it. Life-reduced.

In the 1st CivDiv there is just so much nonsense that clutters our lives. It comes from work, girlfriends/wives/kids, schools or just general stupidity. So many nonsensical minutiae that is nothing more than a waste of energy.

Along with the camaraderie, I think this scene from Black Hawk Down encapsulates it all...

Post: #15

My cousin went to Vietnam and volunteered for missions involving intense combat. He was badly wounded and got a purple heart. He ended up raising four children. The war didn't change his personality one bit. Probably because he believed 100% in what he was doing and believed in serving his country. He had the ability to be a warrior when needed and then leave it and go on to a peaceful life.

Post: #16

Theres a certain clarity of mind that comes over you when the bullets are going over your head.

In that moment, everything that is, everything that exists is the moment before you. All your focus is in the now, in that precise point in time. Theres no future, because you might not get one. The past becomes irrelevant, as everything that ever was or happened leads to that point where theres nothing else.

In that moment, you are not thinking, or feeling, or planning. Nothing else matters, only the fact that you are still standing.

In that moment you are truly alive. Alive is all you are.

Post: #17

(02-08-2016 10:12 AM)Charles Martel Wrote:  One thing that makes me look back on my time with fondness, is the utter simplicity of it all. Life was a routine of cleaning weapons, standing watch, eating, drinking and sometimes sleep. That was about it. Life-reduced.

Yeah I remember that too. So simple but it was gold.

Would anyone of you go back even though you are aware of geopolitics / red-pill stuff nowadays?

Post: #18

Most of us come from a long line of men who raised families during peacetime and took up arms during wars over the past 20,000 years - our forefathers were the successful ones or we would not be here today as many wound up collateral damages of war.

The military is like a catalyst added when forging a steel blade - some men become much more strong and resilient and some men break.

The strong and resilient just go about their lives as quiet alpha men who become husbands, fathers, coaches, bosses with a special appreciation for the lives they have earned.

The ones the media like to focus on are the broken ones who were courageous enough the serve among the real One Percenters and who our country, military and VA have an obligation to care for if they want the rest of us to encourage our sons and carriers of our warriors genetic legacies to follow in our collective footsteps if need be in the future. Considering the massive numbers of enemies of America from Militant LGBTQ feminist SJWs to the Latin and Asian Drugs Cartels, to the Asian free but unfair traders, to the ISIS Hamas and Hezbollah etc Radical Islamist Terrorists to the EU UK socialist surrender monkeys - our future will indeed need warriors to protect us from both the foreign and domestic enemies of our constitution and our nation.

FYI I am voting for Mr. Trump a living breathing American Patriot tomorrow in LIVE FREE OR DIE New Hampshire!

Post: #19

(02-08-2016 04:59 AM)RonPaulStateOfMind Wrote:  I could & should write a book about this one. Anybody else from Ft. Hood, Ft. Irwin or Ft. Leonardwood here? JBB/Anaconda, Warhorse, or Basra? Why do I miss Iraq and Active Duty Army life? I'd say because you feel like you are living life on the highest level you've ever been. I went from working in warehouses as a civilian & not enjoying life, to being a soldier who felt like he was finally a somebody, especially while in Iraq, to getting my honorable discharge at the end of my contract a few months after getting home, and now back to working warehouses (now with child support & a divorce). If our Army ever decides to grow again & let qualified Vets back into Active Duty, I will be there asap & staying in long term. It killed me to see on the news DAESH/ISIS spreading across some of the same areas I had been. As much as I question the establishment & the truthfulness of the original reasons for the invasion of Iraq, there was nothing better than getting a steady paycheck, Federal Govt Employee benefits, the camaraderie, & the organized chaos lifestyle overall that goes on, good & bad.

I was part of 14 months of Operation Enduring Freedom from '08-'10, Combat Engineers. Most real Veterans will not tell you their most crazy stories & if you do come across someone telling some Rambo style craziness, be skeptical. Most of the real Vets will never open up like that unless it's with people we know & really trust. That being said, I consider the following a normal memory that isn't trying too hard to impress people. Just a small part of what goes on there. I've got my VA Card for anybody who wants visual proof.

One my fav memories that was part of our nightly routine... Lighting up a fresh Cigar that just came in the mail with my boys in the middle of the night looking at the stars, hearing the prayer call from the nearby Mosque, occasionally hearing the incoming mortar alarm go off, and then watching the C-RAM (20MM Gattling Gun Auto Defense system) blast the incoming mortars out of the sky over our heads You might not believe it but this becomes a normal part of your life. You will eventually be sleeping & turning up your earbuds during these scenarios to mask the noise.

This vid someone else posted to youtube definitely captures the moment of when most of us seen this $hit in person for the first time..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__OaITubFd8

Are you not qualified to get a job with an outfit like Blackwater, or whatever name they go by these days?

Post: #20

It is a common theme to afterwards miss intensely visceral, masculine and even dangerous situations; combat, high level sports, working on a rig or other remote / dangerous profession and even sometimes doing time in prison. All of these situations can be life threatening and trauma filled but at the same time inevitably allow the men sharing them to form close bonds of fellowship.

Coming back to real world (western, feminized suburbia) a man suddenly experiences the total absence of this camaraderie and connection. The transition back to normal friends and family, TV, hockey practice and grocery shopping can be brutal.

Finding fellowship in back home is critical to surviving.

Post: #21

(02-08-2016 01:57 PM)porscheguy Wrote:  

(02-08-2016 04:59 AM)RonPaulStateOfMind Wrote:  I could & should write a book about this one. Anybody else from Ft. Hood, Ft. Irwin or Ft. Leonardwood here? JBB/Anaconda, Warhorse, or Basra? Why do I miss Iraq and Active Duty Army life? I'd say because you feel like you are living life on the highest level you've ever been. I went from working in warehouses as a civilian & not enjoying life, to being a soldier who felt like he was finally a somebody, especially while in Iraq, to getting my honorable discharge at the end of my contract a few months after getting home, and now back to working warehouses (now with child support & a divorce). If our Army ever decides to grow again & let qualified Vets back into Active Duty, I will be there asap & staying in long term. It killed me to see on the news DAESH/ISIS spreading across some of the same areas I had been. As much as I question the establishment & the truthfulness of the original reasons for the invasion of Iraq, there was nothing better than getting a steady paycheck, Federal Govt Employee benefits, the camaraderie, & the organized chaos lifestyle overall that goes on, good & bad.

I was part of 14 months of Operation Enduring Freedom from '08-'10, Combat Engineers. Most real Veterans will not tell you their most crazy stories & if you do come across someone telling some Rambo style craziness, be skeptical. Most of the real Vets will never open up like that unless it's with people we know & really trust. That being said, I consider the following a normal memory that isn't trying too hard to impress people. Just a small part of what goes on there. I've got my VA Card for anybody who wants visual proof.

One my fav memories that was part of our nightly routine... Lighting up a fresh Cigar that just came in the mail with my boys in the middle of the night looking at the stars, hearing the prayer call from the nearby Mosque, occasionally hearing the incoming mortar alarm go off, and then watching the C-RAM (20MM Gattling Gun Auto Defense system) blast the incoming mortars out of the sky over our heads You might not believe it but this becomes a normal part of your life. You will eventually be sleeping & turning up your earbuds during these scenarios to mask the noise.

This vid someone else posted to youtube definitely captures the moment of when most of us seen this $hit in person for the first time..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__OaITubFd8

Are you not qualified to get a job with an outfit like Blackwater, or whatever name they go by these days?

This is a good question. Last year while doing some research I read on one of the more popular Private Contractor sites that these guys usually want Soldiers who haven't been inactive for more than a few years. It sounded to me like my five year hiatus was over their limit and at that same point I got hired for a really good temp job so I lost interest in it. Now that this idea is back in my head it makes me want to send them my info and see what they say, because I'm in job hunt mode & it won't hurt to at least try.