Post: #1

I heard this on the radio yesterday:

Struggling Boys on the Way to the Workplace

TL/DL:

Not a great episode by any means but it was interesting how some of this stuff is seeping into the mainstream media.

Really, if you want to save yourself some time and have a quick listen, the relevant section is from 24:00 to 28:00. Then listen to the last couple of minutes from 43:00 until the end.

The show makes no conclusions, but a researcher basically describes hypergamy and expresses concern at the possibility of men "dropping out" (increasing MGTOW), without actually using those terms. I think it illustrates how when feminism is assumed and unquestionable, it's just impossible to come to a deeper understanding of these issues.

Post: #2

At the 25:00 mark...why is all this a problem..."because it creates a real problem for marriage, family, and ultimately children...women understandably don't want to marry men with low earnings potential."

Fuck marriage.

Post: #3

Stuff like this is why I started seeking out masculine spaces after my nephews were born. The educational Reich is too alarming to ignore.

Post: #4

"...women understandably don't want to marry men with low earnings potential."

Next week's episode:

"...men understandably don't want to marry wommen with high calorie intake potential."

Thought not.

Post: #5

Personally, I'm getting tired of this war on boys bullshit. They're trying to make everyone a victim group, and now it's boys.

The core message of MGTOW is "Fuck off, I'll do my own thing, just quit bothering me." Even the people raising the "war on boys" battle cry, are for the most part, people who disdain traditional masculinity for men and femininity for women. Ending this supposed war with superficially more male friendly policies will just make it easier to hide how hostile they are to traditional manhood. For anyone who has a son, I would tell them to withdraw him from the fundamentally warped education system, instead of expending energy trying to reform it at the margins.

Post: #6

(05-13-2014 03:39 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  Personally, I'm getting tired of this war on boys bullshit. They're trying to make everyone a victim group, and now it's boys.

The core message of MGTOW is "Fuck off, I'll do my own thing, just quit bothering me." Even the people raising the "war on boys" battle cry, are for the most part, people who disdain traditional masculinity for men and femininity for women. Ending this supposed war with superficially more male friendly policies will just make it easier to hide how hostile they are to traditional manhood. For anyone who has a son, I would tell them to withdraw him from the fundamentally warped education system, instead of expending energy trying to reform it at the margins.

Don't be a victim, be a survivor.
Don't be a survivor, be a thriver.

Post: #7

(05-13-2014 12:20 PM)presidentcarter Wrote:  At the 25:00 mark...why is all this a problem..."because it creates a real problem for marriage, family, and ultimately children...women understandably don't want to marry men with low earnings potential."

Note how the man's character (who he is as a person) is inconsequential.

The same people who screech about men objectifying women essentially do the very same thing to men, treating them as human ATM machines. Only when they do it it's OK, because as the truism goes, "Women have preferences. Men have biases."

Post: #8

Me speaking to any girl ever.



MGTOW for life baby!

Post: #9

(05-13-2014 03:39 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  Personally, I'm getting tired of this war on boys bullshit. They're trying to make everyone a victim group, and now it's boys.

The core message of MGTOW is "Fuck off, I'll do my own thing, just quit bothering me." Even the people raising the "war on boys" battle cry, are for the most part, people who disdain traditional masculinity for men and femininity for women. Ending this supposed war with superficially more male friendly policies will just make it easier to hide how hostile they are to traditional manhood. For anyone who has a son, I would tell them to withdraw him from the fundamentally warped education system, instead of expending energy trying to reform it at the margins.

Maybe the messenger isn't ideal in this case. But exposing some of these stats and trends is a direct challenge to feminist dogma.

Post: #10

"Women don't want marriage with a low income man" and this is why they are even bring this up. They don't give a fuck about men/boys but when it affect women they start to freak out.

Post: #11

(05-13-2014 03:39 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  Personally, I'm getting tired of this war on boys bullshit. They're trying to make everyone a victim group, and now it's boys.

The core message of MGTOW is "Fuck off, I'll do my own thing, just quit bothering me." Even the people raising the "war on boys" battle cry, are for the most part, people who disdain traditional masculinity for men and femininity for women. Ending this supposed war with superficially more male friendly policies will just make it easier to hide how hostile they are to traditional manhood. For anyone who has a son, I would tell them to withdraw him from the fundamentally warped education system, instead of expending energy trying to reform it at the margins.

very well stated.

I really enjoy your posts.

So what is the next step for the men's movement?

Fight in the courts?

Post: #12

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Cal...xperiments

Relevant

Post: #13

(11-04-2014 08:47 PM)dholland662 Wrote:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Cal...xperiments

Relevant

This has got to be the coolest fucking thing I've ever read. Cheers for the tip, gonna look into this more.

Post: #14

Texas_Tryhard, since you're a medical practitioner (right?), I would very much like to hear your thoughts on how applicable this experiment is to humans. I think medical science would have more to say about the underlying mechanism than sociological one.

Post: #15

(11-05-2014 05:34 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  Texas_Tryhard, since you're a medical practitioner (right?), I would very much like to hear your thoughts on how applicable this experiment is to humans. I think medical science would have more to say about the underlying mechanism than sociological one.

You can research human equivalents very easily. The most pronounced examples were in the time of the modern utopian housing experiments which took place in the United States and parts of Canada from the mid-1950s to the mid-1990s

Here it is:


^ Pruitt-Igoe Homes in St Louis was one of the largest single complexes built during this era.

This stuff touches on my area of study in social engineering. Back in the post war period social housing was created as a utopian answer and fix it all to ailments that plagued living in the pre-war period (lack of space, filth, lack of order, etc). To the creeping up modernists and utopian the old way of living in the a urban setting grossed them out. They wanted sterile, clean, uniform living for people with access to schools, food, and parks right at their door step. The created these large housing complexes as their response.




^ Pay attention to how it is talked about highly in the old video stock. This was very much the thought process of the time that these buildings would be a 100% improvement and would be the future of urban housing.

The thing that is interesting is that these homes were not initially made for the poor. They wanted middle class people whom in America were largely white to move into these units. In the start, for many of the early projects they were mostly white and middle class. It wasn't until suburban expansion and market gimmicks such as redlining which purposely segregated the urban populations from the suburban did you start to see the tide turn on the demographics of these housing units. Initially these homes were humble and did offer a upgrade from crowded homes and slums that were typical in the pre-war period but things started to unravel quickly. It turned full scale after the 60's when "Great Society" initiatives put housing as a key component. Which further accelerated again after the boots came down in late 60's and 70's when now few mostly black historic urban communities had riots in what was left in their long standing communities (Many long standing Black American communities were purposely destroyed to build freeways and highways to help channel new autos from the suburbs to the working centers in the downtown). After that many black American if they were on the lowest end of the socioeconomic scale were places into these massive housing units which were now whole City operated due to the market and city not being able to sell the homes as originally planned. Quickly the poorest of the poor found homes here but the cycle of having little income to ensure maintenance and the City cheapening out on maintenance led to conditions falling apart, which lead people to move out, which led to even less rents to maintain things, wash..rinse..repeat.

With these units now full and all basics supplied and covered, with the slow removal of the male population to keep order you saw almost all of these housing units become dens for crime and social degradation. The "projects" basically became a zoo in many cities and many got to the point of being self-policed since cops could not keep a handle on things or fell to the corruption of drug money that came in and out of the towers. Add again the fact that no social order was present and you saw murder rates sky rocket in these communities in very little time. These would be the equivalent to the de-populaiton scenario the mice faced in the shafts once their social order eroded.

This is what it broke down into:


A lot of material exists on the subject. Its been a few years since I had to dig deep into the matter but even NPR itself has many podcasts on the subject.

Post: #16

(11-05-2014 05:34 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  Texas_Tryhard, since you're a medical practitioner (right?), I would very much like to hear your thoughts on how applicable this experiment is to humans. I think medical science would have more to say about the underlying mechanism than sociological one.

HCE, I just noticed this, my bad.

Unfortunately the applicability of this study to humans is beyond my experience, but if you put a gun to my head: I'd say the complicated social relationships of mice can be used as a sort of parallel to humans, with some caveats and problems, and that there's some applicability. I like kosko's post above mine as well, and it is his area of focus. I'd be afraid to comment with authority on this because it's not my element.