Post: #26

"And when you start to defend it, think about why you're doing it when you might help someone to an early death with your freedom rap."

I wasn't saying cigarettes are preferable to dipping. I was referring to smokeless tobacco pellets and such.

http://m.cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/13/12/2035

Post: #27

I love chewing. Now that I am forced to work on a trading floor everyday, I find that it helps me stay focused and alert during times I would normally fade a bit. Which is usually between 11-12 and then somewhere in between 2-4. It really helps me in the afternoon once the trading day is done and I have a couple hours left of data to go over.

I don't do it everyday and I only do it at work. I used to chew everyday all day in my early 20's and even in my teen years. I found after awhile though it would make me feel like shit and a nauseous. I keep forgetting to try the nicotine candy's as well. I do enjoy the taste of chewing but I really only care about the mental edge I get from it.

any guys here try the candy's before ?

Post: #28

Personal testimony here.

I dipped for a few years. I had the myth that pouches are better for you hammered into my head by friends. I dipped Skoal Peach, Citrus or Mint.

Sure, the buzz when drunk was pretty fucking good.

But, I have considerable gum issues to this day. My lowers gums are not in good shape. Nothing that looks horrific -- as gum surgery is merely an option that I will exercise at some point --but the gum below one tooth recedes pretty far. You can tell the flesh has thinned considerably in parts -- ironically not on the side I dipped on. Thankfully, I have no problems with my teeth or smile.

I do NOT recommend you start. It is horribly addictive and if you drink often, when drunk your inhibitions recede and you will most feel compelled to dip.

Since drinking was a large part of my life at that time, I beat the dip addiction by smoking hookah drunk. It tasted better, chicks love to smoke hookah and honestly gave a better buzz. Win, win, win. Best yet? No gum, tooth or mouth damage.

On a side note, I have friends who smoke and dip with wild abandon. No problems -- yet! -- but apparently my mouth couldn't handle the abuse. All for the better in the end, as most likely those guys won't back off with simple gum damage, but serious tooth decay and possibly cancer. A guy mentioned googling dip cancer. Do it. By the time you get to that point, you ain't talking transplanting some gum tissue from your upper mouth onto your lower jaw and being uncomfortable for a few weeks.

Please, unless you occasionally toss a dip in (i mean once a week or every other week) don't do it. I haven't heard of that, just guys who dip randomly drunk and usually end up puking as the backwash doesn't sit well in a belly tossed full of booze. Further, it is more difficult to kick than smoking. I have heard that sentiment time and again. It's true.

Clearly, I grew up country but most country chicks ain't into guys dipping. They begrudgingly accept it but loathe the habit.

It's a losing habit in every sense.

Post: #29

(04-30-2014 06:24 AM)spalex Wrote:  Everybody in Scandinavia does it.

Almost everybody agrees that it is 100 times more addictive than cigarettes.

I have heard many stories like "I smoke for 5 years, then just stopped for 2 years. But now I use snus, and I can't go longer than 5 minutes without one."

What he said. Personally i still prefer cigs.

Post: #30

Tobacco is poison, brah.

Post: #31

Too bad dipping tobacco is not available in the country I am in, or else I'd be an addict.

Post: #32

Got back on the wagon after going to a NASCAR race, I'll quit after this can. It is really easy going cold turkey if you are trying to quit. After week 1, you won't have the urge. Chew some gum and all is well.

Post: #33

(05-01-2014 01:11 PM)The_CEO Wrote:  some of the chemicals found in your smokeless tobacco - enjoy!
(and other common uses)

Sodium: salt, can cause high blood pressure
Sugar: can cause cavities

I know cigarettes and dip have carcinogens in them, but where did this list come from? Sodium and sugar? Come on.

Sodium - without it your brain can't communicate with the rest of your body and you die. It doesn't cause high blood pressure, but it's bad for people who already have high blood pressure in large amounts.

Sugar - naturally occurs in things like fruit and milk. Unless you're getting the concentrated high fructose corn syrup kind, it isn't going to kill you.

Post: #34

(06-19-2014 09:42 PM)Vitriol Wrote:  

(05-01-2014 01:11 PM)The_CEO Wrote:  some of the chemicals found in your smokeless tobacco - enjoy!
(and other common uses)

Sodium: salt, can cause high blood pressure
Sugar: can cause cavities

I know cigarettes and dip have carcinogens in them, but where did this list come from? Sodium and sugar? Come on.

Sodium - without it your brain can't communicate with the rest of your body and you die. It doesn't cause high blood pressure, but it's bad for people who already have high blood pressure in large amounts.

Sugar - naturally occurs in things like fruit and milk. Unless you're getting the concentrated high fructose corn syrup kind, it isn't going to kill you.

Here are a few of the chemicals in tobacco smoke, and other places they are found:

Acetone – found in nail polish remover
Acetic Acid – an ingredient in hair dye
Ammonia – a common household cleaner
Arsenic – used in rat poison
Benzene – found in rubber cement
Butane – used in lighter fluid
Cadmium – active component in battery acid
Carbon Monoxide – released in car exhaust fumes
Formaldehyde – embalming fluid
Hexamine – found in barbecue lighter fluid
Lead – used in batteries
Naphthalene – an ingredient in moth balls
Methanol – a main component in rocket fuel
Nicotine – used as insecticide
Tar – material for paving roads
Toluene - used to manufacture paint

Post: #35

(06-19-2014 09:42 PM)Vitriol Wrote:  

(05-01-2014 01:11 PM)The_CEO Wrote:  some of the chemicals found in your smokeless tobacco - enjoy!
(and other common uses)

Sodium: salt, can cause high blood pressure
Sugar: can cause cavities

I know cigarettes and dip have carcinogens in them, but where did this list come from? Sodium and sugar? Come on.

Sodium - without it your brain can't communicate with the rest of your body and you die. It doesn't cause high blood pressure, but it's bad for people who already have high blood pressure in large amounts.

Sugar - naturally occurs in things like fruit and milk. Unless you're getting the concentrated high fructose corn syrup kind, it isn't going to kill you.

I just copy/pasted the whole list. I agree; those would be least of my concerns. Although since you hold the product in your mouth and around your teeth for long periods of time, it can't be a good habit dental care-wise.

One of my buddies who dipped a lot (Copenhagen, Skoal, Kodiak) told me about the fiberglass and cadmium. They put the fiberglass in there to abrade your gums/lip/cheek for drug-delivery.

Post: #36

Tony Gwynn is dead because of his habit of dipping tobacco. He died from cancer of the salivary gland.

Post: #37

My buddy used to dip Copenhagen like you wouldn't believe; he was another engineer who couldn't get over his habit.

Cool guy but didn't give a shit about anything unless he was dipping.

Post: #38

Wow. A lot of people are really misinformed here. No one should ever recommend smoking over smokeless tobacco and no one should be condemning smokeless tobacco. It is a significant reduced harm product.

Smokeless tobacco is near harmless. It is addictive, like any tobacco product, but is far less addictive than cigarettes, and I have found dipping quite easy to quit.

I dipped hardcore for a few years and I never had an issue with my mouth. Yes, there were times when I was dipping that some of the tissue in my mouth changed to a more leathery feel and some wierd dots would appear from time to time. But that all goes away when you stop dipping etc. I never had gum recession, staining, or any negative impact on my teeth etc.

I don't think dipping is a bad thing. I certainly wouldn't recommend starting any addictive habit, but this one is not so bad, and the risks are quite minimal. I was quite addicted to it at one time and I really enjoyed that addiction. But then there came a time where I didn't feel addicted, didn't crave it, didn't get much satisfaction from it, and I realized that the nature of certain addictions changes. It can get weaker or stronger and is very much an individual thing. But I stopped dipping and started using an e CIG and then I eventually went back to smoking. I've been off and on with many forms of nicotine use. I will say again, I would not recommend anything getting involved with tobacco etc. But if you are going to get involved, your best choice is going to be smokeless tobacco.

I believe the tobacco companies have done a great job at further reducing the harm of dipping. They use artificial sweeteners instead of sugars, they increased the alkalinity of the tobacco (free base, more nicotine absorbed etc, and this reduces acidity in the mouth. Less acidity in the mouth is good for the teeth etc), and most importantly, there's been a great reduction in TSNA's (tobacco specifically nitrosamines) which are the things that generally cause cancers etc. Nowadays there are less carcinogens in smokeless tobacco than the food you eat or other regular daily things you consume. Yes, smokeless tobacco has nicotine, but nicotine itself hasn't been proven to be very harmful itself. The only negative things I've seen about nicotine are that if you have cancer, nicotine can encourage or strengthen a tumors blood vessels and therefore blood supply (making it grow faster, stronger, and more difficult to kill with treatment). The other issue see to be am increased risk in pancreatic cancer. Nicotine also has minor effects on the circulatory system/heart etc. Other than that, nicotine is not really so bad of a substance. And on its own, nicotine is not really so addictive. What makes tobacco so addictive, are the other alkaloids and substances which have all kinds of actions on the brains. Those combined with nicotine make tobacco addictive. But burning tobacco and inhaling it is like smoking crack. Burning and inhaling tobacco is the problem with tobacco. Smokeless changes everything.

And if you want the safest option, Swedish snus is practically harmless, although it is difficult to get nowadays and may not be as practical.

But we have to get real here: smokeless tobacco, specifically dip, is relatively harmless.

Also, I was around many guys who dipped heavily for 20 or 30 years. Only saw a few with bad teeth/mouths from it. And what I learned was that if you actually brush your teeth and maintain good oral hygeine and live not completely unhealthily, then there shouldn't be any problems from dipping. But there also is the genetic factor: if you have bad teeth or some weakness in that area, then dipping may be harmful for you. Some people just have mouths that are going to go bad no matter what.

There is also plenty of good science that backs all this up so do some research and you'll come to the we conclusions.

Post: #39

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/0...g-tobacco/

"As is being mentioned in most obituaries of Tony Gwynn, he blamed his longtime use of smokeless tobacco for the mouth and salivary gland cancer which eventually took his life."

http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancercause...ss-tobacco

Post: #40

Supposedly, his cancer wasn't actually linked to his tobacco use. He may have thought that, and it is easy to coincidentally assume that the two were related, but if I recall the two are generally not associated. However, I'm not 100% sure this moment and would have to check.

Post: #41

http://www.cancer.org/cancer/oralcavitya...sk-factors

"Oral tobacco products (snuff or chewing tobacco) are linked with cancers of the cheek, gums, and inner surface of the lips. Using oral tobacco products for a long time poses an especially high risk. These products also cause gum disease, destruction of the bone sockets around teeth, and tooth loss. It is also important for people who have been treated for oral cavity or oropharyngeal cancer to give up any oral tobacco products."

Post: #42

There is no link between his tobacco use and his cancer. I don't have to go on a long search and post anything. It's easily found if you look.

But the risks or getting oral cancer from smokeless tobacco is extremely minimal.

Post: #43

Medical experts also worry that the public sees smokeless tobacco as a healthier alternative to cigarettes because it's less harmful to the lungs.

But there are other risks that come from contact with the lips, gums, cheeks and throat.

"We do know that with using oral smokeless tobacco or chewing tobacco, there is about a tenfold increase in the risk of oral cancers," said Alex Markarian, an assistant professor of otolaryngology and head and neck surgery at USC's Keck School of Medicine.

Post: #44

You are kind of quoting propaganda, but that is expected (hard to find the real info because of the anti tobacco agenda) and that can't be held against you. I suggest you dive into the real science. I'd provide some info but I honestly don't have the time at this moment. But I felt I had to reply.

Post: #45

Waiting for your non-tobacco industry funded, impartial research/sources/medical data demonstrating that this is anti-tobacco "propaganda" and faulty science:

"We do know that with using oral smokeless tobacco or chewing tobacco, there is about a tenfold increase in the risk of oral cancers," said Alex Markarian, an assistant professor of otolaryngology and head and neck surgery at USC's Keck School of Medicine.

Post: #46

There are a million studies confirming what I have said above. Here are two randomly selected results. And also, there are a million studies showing that the risks from smokeless tobacco are lower than the risks in the studies below. But I don't have time to digging. Wake up and educated yourself. Maybe you can even help someone you know by educating them on the safety and reduced harm of smokeless products, and maybe you can get a hardcore smoker to ditch smoking in exchange. This information saves lives.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12075196
The use of moist snuff and chewing tobacco imposes minimal risks for cancers of the oral cavity and other upper respiratory sites, with relative risks ranging from 0.6 to 1.7. The use of dry snuff imposes higher risks, ranging from 4 to 13, and the risks from smokeless tobacco, unspecified as to type, are intermediate, from 1.5 to 2.8.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15470264
Smokeless tobacco has been associated with oral cancer for many decades. The purpose of this article is to review research relevant to this association, including epidemiologic studies, studies of putative carcinogens such as tobacco-specific nitrosamines (TSNAs) and other contaminants, and possible cancer inhibitors. Epidemiologic studies addressing this issue primarily consist of case-control studies. They show that the use of chewing tobacco and moist snuff is associated with very low risks for cancers of the oral cavity and related structures (relative risks [RR] from 0.6 to 1.7). The use of dry snuff is associated with higher RRs, ranging from 4 to 13, while the RRs from smokeless tobacco, unspecified as to type, are intermediate (RR = 1.5 to 2.8). With regard to TSNAs, historical levels in American moist snuff products were higher than those in their Swedish counterparts, but levels in contemporary products are uniformly low. TSNA levels in chewing tobacco have always been low, but levels in dry snuff have been higher, including some very high levels in current products. In general, smokeless tobacco users are not exposed to significant levels of cadmium, lead, benzo(a)pyrene, polonium-210, and formaldehyde, when compared with concentrations of these compounds in foods. Finally, low oral cancer risk from smokeless tobacco use may be influenced by the presence of cancer inhibitors, mainly anti-oxidants, in smokeless tobacco products.

Post: #47

You are right. I have used these products and would not recommend that anyone start, and if they do, to consider quitting.

Here are some resources to help:

http://www.mintsnuff.com/

Post: #48

I dip

As long as you aren't a dumbass about it and actually take good care of your mouth + change where you put your pinch every few days your mouth will be practically untouched.

Unless you dip wintergreen. That shit will fuck your gums in the ass.