Post: #1

http://www.psmag.com/navigation/politics...ten-66482/

"The scale of China’s involvement in the war was massive. Chiang, for example, fielded four million troops at the Nationalist’s height, while China as a whole lost an estimated 14 million in the war. Had China folded, Japan’s capacity to fight the U.S. or even the Soviets would have been vastly amplified."

Post: #2

I read a lot about WW2, and I had no idea it was so many. Thanks for the link.

Post: #3

About 60 million people died during WW2 which at the time was about 12% of the world...crazy.

Post: #4

(04-20-2014 09:54 PM)Freddy_1 Wrote:  About 60 million people died during WW2 which at the time was about 12% of the world...crazy.

12%? The world population was over 2 billion by the time WW2 started. WW2 casualties were about 2.5% of total population.

Post: #5

What pisses me off is how history books are all about the Holocaust and how many Jews were exterminated but hardly a word about The Rape of Nanking (China). I brought it up with a Chinese dude last week and he was shocked that I knew anything about it. USA of selective memories

Post: #6

I used to work with a guy from of mainland Chinese decent (though he was raised here and was pretty Americanized - even had the Long/Staten Island accent) who had a grandfather who spent a few months hiding from Japanese soldiers that were trying to capture and execute him. When Fukushima happened he straight up said "God's punishing the Japanese for what they did".

Post: #7

(04-20-2014 10:09 PM)BiggNastee Wrote:  What pisses me off is how history books are all about the Holocaust and how many Jews were exterminated but hardly a word about The Rape of Nanking (China). I brought it up with a Chinese dude last week and he was shocked that I knew anything about it. USA of selective memories

This is a typical mindset: "If it didn't directly involve a Western country, it didn't happen."

Post: #8

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-rape-of-nanking/

Post: #9

History is political.

During the cold war Russia's role in WW2 tended to be understated a lot too by U.S. historians and the media. It wasn't until the latter half of the 80's that Russia's primary role in WW2 was fully acknowledged by the public at large.

Right now it's not considered PC for the left or right to acknowledge China in any positive light. So popular WW2 history tends to gloss over the sino region unless they're talking about Mao or the flying tigers or some other minor role played by the allies.

This is why the holocaust gets pumped up so much because there are a lot of Jews in powerful positions in the U.S. media and politics. So they get to choose what historical/political issues are at the forefront. I'm not anti-semetic, it just is what it is.

Post: #10

Imagine what the population of China would be today if something like 50 million people weren't killed in WW2, Mao's Cultural Revolution, and the 1 baby policy.

The old Soviet Union people would probably have double the population if not for being slaughtered in WW1, the revolution/purges/gulags, and WW2.

All the major powers took a population beating except for the USA in that whole WW1 through WW2 timeframe.

Post: #11

(04-20-2014 10:09 PM)BiggNastee Wrote:  What pisses me off is how history books are all about the Holocaust and how many Jews were exterminated but hardly a word about The Rape of Nanking (China). I brought it up with a Chinese dude last week and he was shocked that I knew anything about it. USA of selective memories

Chinese don't control the media and banks so they don't get the pub.

As I understand it, most Chinese still hold a grudge and really do not care for Japanese people at all.

For instance, American and European brand cars sell much better there than the Japs do.

Post: #12

Who wants to place bets on when the top three threads on the EE section of RVF are either directly, or indirectly about how Jews fuck everything up for people?

My bet is that by the end of the summer, there will be at least Jew-negative threads.

Post: #13

I've heard estimates that the number is perhaps 20 million Chinese died during WW2. Then right after that Mao comes along with his Great Leap Forward and tens of millions of more are believed to have starved to death.

Mid-20th century China was a very horrible place to be.

Post: #14

I believe Russia lost a quarter of its young men.

Eastern Europe got hit the worst. Probably the closest we've come so far to hell on earth is being in Eastern Europe during the world wars.

What many people also don't know is that millions of non-Jewish slavs were brought in to Germany to work in slave camps, kind of like death camps but for the purpose of labor for Germany.

Post: #15

Fantastic article, very educational and well written. However, now that the Holocaust comparison has been brought into light, we should also note this passage:

Quote:At the same time, there is one very important, and I think it a very significant difference between the Japanese atrocities in China and the Nazi experience in Europe: The Japanese never had any program of organized genocide. That is a very significant difference than in the European case. The Japanese were brutal; they carried out all sorts of horrific acts, you know the Rape of Nanking, the bombing of Chongqing, and others, but to some extent, you can see similarities with other brutal campaigns, which took place elsewhere.

Post: #16

This PS Mag thingy is full of other excellent articles too - here is the one discussing the nature of energy, energy production, GDP and debt:
http://www.psmag.com/navigation/nature-a...ent-79381/

On the other hand, there are hamsterrific articles about threats to women on the Internet:
http://www.psmag.com/navigation/health-a...net-72170/

Don't know what to think about it. But worth reading through.

Post: #17

(04-20-2014 10:13 PM)Sargon of Akkad Wrote:  

(04-20-2014 10:09 PM)BiggNastee Wrote:  What pisses me off is how history books are all about the Holocaust and how many Jews were exterminated but hardly a word about The Rape of Nanking (China). I brought it up with a Chinese dude last week and he was shocked that I knew anything about it. USA of selective memories

This is a typical mindset: "If it didn't directly involve a Western country, it didn't happen."

Not only western countries, the role of Russia in WW2 is vastly underrepresented in american history sources.

Post: #18

(04-21-2014 07:09 AM)edtf Wrote:  

Quote:This is a typical mindset: "If it didn't directly involve a Western country, it didn't happen."

Not only western countries, the role of Russia in WW2 is vastly underrepresented in american history sources.

Russia isn't usually regarded as a Western country.

I don't mean American history books or even WWII in particular. In general, people are tought to think science, philosophy and mathematics started with the Greeks, even though the Babylonians and others in the Near East had advanced in all of these fields long before the Greeks as we know them even existed.

The Middle Ages in are looked at as a dark chapter of world history, even though it was really only "dark" (relatively speaking) in Europe, and plenty of other civilizations were thriving at the time in the eastern Mediterranean, Persia, India, China and some parts of Africa.

Most people are familiar with the silk road only because it affected Europe. Ask anyone about trade in the vast trade networks in the Indian Ocean and most people will look dumbfounded.

Likewise in WWII, we're only tought to care about those in which Europeans or Americans were affected. Mention Japanese war atrocities to the average person in Europe or the US and they'll think you only mean Pearl Harbour.

That Russia's role in WWII was downplayed in American textbooks isn't surprising considering the history the latter has had with the former. I mean, they were only on the verge of starting a nuclear holocaust with each other. It's not like they'd be all that quick to acknowledge eachother in any way.

Post: #19

It is a shame how the pacific theatre receives only a fraction of the attention the European one receives. Also sort of bizarre, considering that (and no offense to my American friends here) the pacific campaign was almost exclusive won by Americans, and normally Muricah would be stroking themselves hard over that fact. I guess the images of fighting Nazis is just sexier in the public mind.

For example, how many people here know that Japan actually invaded a part of Alaska during WW2?

Post: #20

The Pacific theatre was the real deal. Both the Pacific theatre and North African campaign that bogged down Hitler always get glossed over in the history books.

(04-21-2014 03:42 AM)Tenerife Wrote:  I believe Russia lost a quarter of its young men.

Eastern Europe got hit the worst. Probably the closest we've come so far to hell on earth is being in Eastern Europe during the world wars.

What many people also don't know is that millions of non-Jewish slavs were brought in to Germany to work in slave camps, kind of like death camps but for the purpose of labor for Germany.

Yes, many Romas/Gypsys were used as work labour and killed in the camps also.

Post: #21

(04-21-2014 09:06 AM)Billy Chubbs Wrote:  For example, how many people here know that Japan actually invaded a part of Alaska during WW2?

The summary at the top mentions that the US lost over 200 planes during this campaign. Is this an incorrect count or this is for real? That seems like a staggering loss, I find it hard to believe that something like that could happen...

EDIT: scratch that, I found this list. 200 seems like a tiny number in comparison: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equipment_l...rld_War_II

Post: #22

(04-21-2014 09:06 AM)Billy Chubbs Wrote:  It is a shame how the pacific theatre receives only a fraction of the attention the European one receives. Also sort of bizarre, considering that (and no offense to my American friends here) the pacific campaign was almost exclusive won by Americans, and normally Muricah would be stroking themselves hard over that fact. I guess the images of fighting Nazis is just sexier in the public mind.

For example, how many people here know that Japan actually invaded a part of Alaska during WW2?

Everyone knows about the Battle of the Bulge.

How many know about the Bataan Death March or the treatment of prisoners in the camps?

The Japs were just as, if not more, murderous as the Nazis but few make that correlation or have the knowledge. The only thing that is commonly known about the Pacific war is Pearl Harbor and Hiroshima. Most don't even know the name of the second city we nuked.

Wonder why that is...

Post: #23

Is this just an American thing not knowing about anything other than Normandy campaign?

I thought Eastern Theatre, Rape of Nanking, Bataan Death March, Burmese campaign, Pacific Theatre, North African campagin, etc were widely known about by the public at large.

Post: #24

Very very few Americans know or understand that the Russians did most of the dirty work of beating the Nazis.

We may have produced more war material than everyone else combined, but it was Russian blood that won the European war.

I think the only people that know of the Northern Africa campaign are the ones that have watched Patton.

If more people knew about the Japs maybe they wouldn't buy so many of the shitboxes they peddle. The Chinese sure don't buy them as they have long memories.

Post: #25

I think it just depends on whether or not you had a good history teacher or the intellectual curiosity to find out. I remember learning in-depth about the Pacific theater, Russia's involvement in the war, and the African campaign in school. I'm sure there are also plenty of teachers out there that only touch on Pearl, D-Day, the concentration camps, and then nuking Japan to freedom.