Post: #26

I like D&P stuff alot and it was a while before i put the two together.

As far as the twitter stuff, its the tuckermax ripping him off and people saying he shouldn't be pissed off about it.
There's a lot of guys in the sphere who talk alot but can't or dont walk the walk.

Post: #27

I don't use Twitter, so no clue about that, but I do understand that MikeCF is pissed off that a guy like Tucker Max can rip off his content with impunity.

This is one of the biggest dangers of any movement and corresponding to Roosh' excellent latest post on being sheep in the grand power scheme, this is another elite tactic, to embrace a budding movement and make it your own. It has happened over and over again. Plagiarism by establishment players, and Tucker Max is certainly establishment.

What happens is that the mainstream then gets served a more palatable version that does not threaten status quo. It happens all the time particularly in music, arts and media.

Post: #28

Goodbye, Mike.

A pillar of this community. Probably my favorite poster.

Saddened to see him go.

Learned a shit ton from this guy.

Looking forward to the future of D&P.

Post: #29

That sucks, MikeCF was by far one of the best posters on the forum, and a guy who always came correct, with real, practical advice that guys could start using immediately to improve their lives, good thing he still has a blog.

Overall, I think he's right in a lot of ways, especially about what he wrote about the manoshphere. Personally, I always thought the term "manosphere" was lame, I never referred to it as that, and while I'm not a blogger, I never considered myself to be a part of it. Men's rights activists, etc. while having some good points, always seemed like a whinny bunch, and the incessant ranting about feminism gets old and annoying real quick.

Post: #30

I spoke with Mike on Twitter and basically he doesn't trust most of the major manosphere players anymore because of the lack of outcry against Tucker Max.

Tucker Max is easily one of the biggest scam artists out there, so I think Mike is justified. I just wish he took his grievances with this forum first. Now he's out, Tucker Max has fewer enemies and men willing to stand against him.

Post: #31

I didn't even know Tucker Max was actively blogging about men's issues, the last time I remember stuff about him on here was when there was discussion over him supposedly "seeing the light" and ending his ways of debauchery.

Post: #32

(04-14-2014 01:01 PM)LeBeau Wrote:  I didn't even know Tucker Max was actively blogging about men's issues, the last time I remember stuff about him on here was when there was discussion over him supposedly "seeing the light" and ending his ways of debauchery.

Yes, now he's making a new site called "The Mating Grounds" and he's pretending he's the first guy to have ever made a game site. Shows how much of a piece of shit he is.

Post: #33

(04-14-2014 12:55 PM)Samseau Wrote:  I spoke with Mike on Twitter and basically he doesn't trust most of the major manosphere players anymore because of the lack of outcry against Tucker Max.

Tucker Max is easily one of the biggest scam artists out there, so I think Mike is justified. I just wish he took his grievances with this forum first. Now he's out, Tucker Max has fewer enemies and men willing to stand against him.

The reason for this is that I bet a lot of people in these parts don't know who Tucker is or don't care.

I started posting at Roissy's in 2007. In that time, the only thing I heard about the guy was from Great Books for Men: "Tucker Max Rhymes With Goldman Sachs."

I assumed Max was some type of media caricature/creation -- as sort of Stephen Colbert fake-take on a "frat boy."

A lot of literary types are like this. I see them almost as products created by the literary system, the way Hollywood creates its stars. There's Malcolm Gladwell and his ridiculous hair. Kinky Friedman with his wild and wooly stories. Hunter S. Thompson, etc.

I don't really see any of us like that. The main reason is that the books people in these parts write are self-published, not products of the literary world.

If you all want to compete with Tucker, find a niche, come up with an image and sell yourself as a one-dimensional MTV version of a manosphere "character" so they can put you on tour and make you a freakshow.

As for me, I'll continue reading the blogs that are untouched by blue pill editors (being in the newspaper world, I've had to deal with these editors a lot and like that their presence is absent here). And I'll state that I've never read a Tucker Max book, so he doesn't register.

Since all of this was a big concern to MikeCF, I wish he (or someone) had spelled out it out more emphatically. I see feminists getting book deals as a bigger problem.

If Max is trying to piggyback on manosphere blogs, I assume there is a way to spin that into some publicity to, in turn, piggyback on whatever following he has. And if not, hit the SOB and his literary agents with a copyright lawsuit.

That's the only kind of publicity these media whores don't like.

Post: #34

(04-14-2014 12:55 PM)Samseau Wrote:  Tucker Max is easily one of the biggest scam artists out there, so I think Mike is justified.

FWIW - it's not even clear if Tucker's site is plagiarizing.

Mike obviously feels he has. But you have to consider the possibility that he may be seeing it wrong.

   

   

Post: #35

http://dangerandplay.com/2014/04/12/resi...anosphere/

http://dangerandplay.com/2014/03/17/mati...ty-ensues/

Basically Tucker Max is claiming he's the first one to have ever started a site dedicated to helping men understand women. Obviously he's full of shit. Anyone who defends Tucker Max loses a lot of points in my book.

Like Frost: http://www.thumotic.com/tucker-max-geoff...1312757319

Quote:If Max and Miller are going to create a resource that packages Red Pill knowledge in a way that appeals to millions of men, than their claim is correct: Nothing like that currently exists.

Absolute horseshit.

Post: #36

Thanks for all the explanations. I now see why Mike has decided to get some distance... standing up for a parasite of Tucker Max's caliber is just wrong.

That said, distancing himself from the manosphere as whole (including many good people who wholeheartedly support him) won't help him to remove the plagiarized content or protect his website.

Post: #37

Its obvious as hell looking at that tucker max site. He's using the Genesis Framework and the same exact template that Mike uses. fucking hell

Post: #38

I only learned about this now as I don't read manosphere blogs.

Mike jumped the gun. He should have collected more "evidence". The way it looks now there's nothing clear cut. Similarities yes but you could accuse many blogs for doing that.

And to take it out like this by "resigning" from the manosphere with the parting shot to the forum that he's doing it because we aren't giving back? That's like saying "I'll take my toys and go home".

Post: #39

This is unfortunate to see such a valuable poster go, but I'll be following you're blog still.

So I see the resemblance between the two sites, but don't see how it is ripping off. Juicing Hacks was ripping off D&P and guess what? The Manosphere came to the rescue, but for some reason that doesn't get any acknowledgment. I think Frost's comments on Twitter sum it up, and I believe he was the one who caught the Juicing Hack plagiarism as well if I'm not mistaken.

Also, Mike tweeted this, but if you google "Mating Grounds" the first link is to dangerandplay.com, not even Tucker's own site! I don't think he is going to be competition for D&P. His content is garbage.

I am getting a bit tired of this whole 'Manosphere Drama'. It's turned into a high school clique. People should just write because they love writing and helping other guys out; they shouldn't have to associate with some community.

Edit: Just read Matt Forney's article. I think that's the first post of his I've ever read and he really did a number on some manosphere writers lmao. Anyway, I don't like the idea of the Manosphere being some living, breathing entity; it's simply a categorization of men's lifsetyle blogs like I already mentioned. People are saying it's dying because the content that Manosphere writers put out is getting shittier.

If every one puts out top notch content focused on improving the lives of men then there won't be anything to complain about.

Post: #40

Wish you the best Mike.

His commentary will be missed here, but his blog and podcast are just a click away.

Post: #41

Post: #42

(04-14-2014 02:56 PM)Cr33pin Wrote:  

Post: #43

Knew who this was before I even opened the thread.

At least we'll still find him at Danger & Play. Lots of good stuff over there.

Post: #44

Well, that sucks, I liked a lot of Mike's posts. It's too bad he left again.


I don't really understand the why.


I can see distancing yourself from a movement when you don't agree but this comes across differently. I agree with many of the things he posted on his blog in regards to why he didn't feel he fit in with the whole manosphere thing.


It didn't come across as the reason why he left though. He acted pissed off because people didn't agree or back him up.


Look, people are generally lazy. If they seeing something work they will copy the hell out of it. It may not be blatant, it may be ideas or the structure of the site. Either way, that's life. The main thing is most of those guys end up ditching it quickly because they can't make it work. They are too lazy to figure it out.


Mike does what he writes about. He will always have ideas and testing them out. In the end, he will be ahead of the curve while guys like this Tucker will be trying to catch up only to end up quitting.


Is that a reason to get pissed off? Nope. That is reality. I would have thought based on the posts I read and enjoyed by Mike, that he would have acted differently to this. Business is cut throat. Hell, look at the patent wars going on in the tech field. It is insane.


Maybe there is something else going on we don't know. I do remember the juicing site and he took care of it. He also got backed by members of this forum. I would believe if he came to the forum and talked about this Tucker guy, we could have helped just be discussing it.


I don't understand the hate Roosh got for not helping him out in this. Or the hate the guy got on twitter for not agreeing that Tucker was stealing. If you want men to stand up for principals you can't expect those same men to simply agree with you just because they are your friend.


How could you respect anyone that would do such a thing?


Anyway, Mike will do good. I have no doubts.


Mike, I appreciate your contributions to this forum. I am now juicing because of your thread and loving it. Good luck bud!

Post: #45

Mike thanks for all the info and of course sorry to see you go. Definitely one of my favourite posters on here.

Danger and play is a site I check out pretty much daily and I have gone back through all the old posts.

When a friend asks me for help with women/life I usually direct them to Danger and Play and/or Rooshv.com

Best of luck in everything man!

Post: #46

A clarification of my above post:

I agree with Mike that at Tucker is a huckster and probably a rip-off artist.

But I don't think he could have expected us to jump in when a lot of us have no knowledge of what exactly Max does. He holds no emotional resonance. If Mike had said Lindy, or Jessica, or Amanda had screwed him, we'd all be there because these are names constantly talked about in the manosphere.

I think his best course of action would have been to get a lawyer (from here?) to draft a letter warning Max about his content and a possible plagiarism suit.

I'm writing this out because I think this should be the way we operate from now on. If we all need someone to do something, contact someone on here whose area of expertise it is. Most of the crowd's interests are pretty diverse and might not know what's going on in sections of the Web we don't frequent. I went on Max's site for the first time today, for example, and found nothing that would make me go back.

Post: #47

(04-14-2014 11:08 AM)bojangles Wrote:  Reason he's leaving is because people have been stealing his content and no-one has backed him up. People have gone the opposite way and been sucking up to those stealing his content, including users of RVF, so he feels aggrieved and has decided he no longer wants to be part of the manosphere and is going his own way.

Nobody stole his content.

Tucker Max is writing a dating website. Probably will end up being a crappy one. But apparently that qualifies as ripping off Danger and Play. The evidence he gave is a post that had one common word in the title with entirely different content. A huge slight for which he really needs Roosh's back or something, and Roosh failed to deliver. What shit.

The juicing website thing was blown out of hand as well. As far as I can see they were both just juicing websites that ran the Genesis theme, the most common blog theme out there. So we all have to hate Vivalamanosphere now apparently. Nobody ever linked to a side by side post comparison.

I know a lot of people rush to take Mike's side because they like him but frankly he's been blowing a lot of shit out of proportion and he's giving himself the reputation of always being at the center of drama. Not really a good place for a man to be.

Post: #48

This fucking sucks. When I needed help with some stuff, Mike was one of the few people who actually replied.

I agree with some of the things he wrote on Danger and Play. Looking at a lot of these posts, people are more worried about "red pill" thinking than gaming women. Worrying about which political party is "red pill" and which one is "beta." Going on and on about feminism, ETC ETC. All societies crumble and fall, people just have to deal with it.

Post: #49

(04-14-2014 05:19 PM)L M McCoy Wrote:  Going on and on about feminism, ETC ETC. All societies crumble and fall, people just have to deal with it.

Yep, and if you're under the age of 30 chances are extremely high you'll be the one of the ones rebuilding. So in order to deal with it, one must understand it.

Post: #50

(04-14-2014 05:22 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(04-14-2014 05:19 PM)L M McCoy Wrote:  Going on and on about feminism, ETC ETC. All societies crumble and fall, people just have to deal with it.

Yep, and if you're under the age of 30 chances are extremely high you'll be the one of the ones rebuilding. So in order to deal with it, one must understand it.

I agree with what you have stated. One must also understand something to adapt to it or even flat out change it. But what I meant was that are some of the posts really necessary? I get the problems with feminism but isn't it just beating a dead horse at this point?