Post: #1

Scenario:

The team is pushing for the playoffs. Must win that evening. Wife of star player about to deliver - imminent. Player decides to bolt to be by his wife's side. Team loses that evening with star player missing. Team misses the playoffs.

Missing the playoffs means huge dollars out of owner's and players' pockets.

Star's obligation lies where?

Joe Flacco of the Baltimore Ravens missed the birth of the couple's first due to a home opener. Is he the ass?

Post: #2

Your kid is for life, the average player spends all of 3-9 years in the NFL. Considering an overwhelming majority of NFL players go bankrupt or fall on hard times after a divorce within two years of retiring, he probably made a big mistake long term.

He's gonna have a wife and kid who go the rest of their lives knowing that daddy has other priorities.

The game Flacco missed wasn't during the playoffs, it was the home opener. Considering the way they ended the season, he probably could have missed it.

Post: #3

(03-26-2014 09:58 AM)Osiris Wrote:  Your kid is for life, the average player spends all of 3-9 years in the NFL. Considering an overwhelming majority of NFL players go bankrupt or fall on hard times after a divorce within two years of retiring, he probably made a big mistake long term.

He's gonna have a wife and kid who go the rest of their lives knowing that daddy has other priorities.

The game Flacco missed wasn't during the playoffs, it was the home opener. Considering the way they ended the season, he probably could have missed it.

Will wife and child say daddy had other priorities if daddy decided to play the superbowl game?

Post: #4

Humans have a lot of irrational wants and desires and this is one of them. The only altruistic (i.e. out of your own hands) reason to be at the birth would be to support your wife.

You can make a simple equation to make your decision:

E[x1] = expected value of playing (note it's an expected value because even if you are there you are not sure you will win, and even if you lose your value of having been there may be negative or positive depending on how you look at things)
E[x2] = expected value from not being there (probably negative)
y = value from being at your wife's side

So unless E[x1] = E[x2] + y you can make a decision as one quantity is greater than the other.

I don't believe in "should". I believe people should make the choices which they get the most out of, and this is how you make those choices.

Personally I think being present at birth is overrated, unless your wife really needs you. Most likely, she also has others at her side to support her, if need be. You still have years of diaper changing and all sorts of other crap(pun int) to look forward to, so why make this a big deal?

I would play the game, unless my wife really needed me. Then I would sacrifice the game for her.

(I'm an economist )

Post: #5

(03-26-2014 10:27 AM)JayMeister Wrote:  Humans have a lot of irrational wants and desires and this is one of them. The only altruistic (i.e. out of your own hands) reason to be at the birth would be to support your wife.


You can make a simple equation to make your decision:

E[x1] = expected value of playing (note it's an expected value because even if you are there you are not sure you will win, and even if you lose your value of having been there may be negative or positive depending on how you look at things)
E[x2] = expected value from not being there (probably negative)
y = value from being at your wife's side

So unless E[x1] = E[x2] + y you can make a decision as one quantity is greater than the other.

I don't believe in "should". I believe people should make the choices which they get the most out of, and this is how you make those choices.

Personally I think being present at birth is overrated, unless your wife really needs you. Most likely, she also has others at her side to support her, if need be. You still have years of diaper changing and all sorts of other crap(pun int) to look forward to, so why make this a big deal?

I would play the game, unless my wife really needed me. Then I would sacrifice the game for her.

(I'm an economist )

I was reminded of a famed UK Obstetrician (name escapes) who indicates that having husband at side of wife increases anxiety for both thereby rendering birth a more protracted event and possibly complicating the process. It could also, in some men, cause a lessened future sexual appetite for wife. I'm too convinced that most guys don't think just jump at the "chance" of being with their wife.

Post: #6

Don't use "teaser" thread titles ("Should an athlete...").

Post: #7

Was my dad at my birth? I honestly don't know and couldn't care less.

A man with a family should be out working to support his family.

Yes, it's important to avoid the "Cats' in the Cradle" scenario where dad never makes it to a ball game or whatever.

But a man's primary obligation to his family is that of a provider.

A big game is far more important than the birth of a child.

Making money sets tone of the child's future far more than being in some hospital room.

It may be big talk (since I don't have kids), but I actually have no desire to be present during birth. It's a rather disgusting process that has caused many a man to lose sexual attraction for his wife. (Your wife will poop herself during birth, among other things.)

Post: #8

I think it's very important for men to be present at the births of their children. It's one of the few opportunities we have to gather, smoke cigars and drink bourbon. But if a buddy has a big game, I can forgive him for not showing up.

Post: #9

This question would only arise if said player was getting divorced. "you were never there for our son! Remember the wildcard game!? I was in a hospital bed and all you cared about was football!" Also used in court to show that he should not have custody.

Otherwise, as long as the money is coming in said player will never hear about it.

Post: #10

This is a good question, because it points out another way in which women have tried to exert dominance over men in the US.

In the old days, it was no big deal whether a father was present in the hospital at birth. He often was, but he would wait in a waiting room until everything was done.

Now, women demand that their men be closer and closer in the zone of birth. Men are now encouraged (i.e., forced) to actually be inside the delivery room during birth. The man is expected to be a lackey and a lapdog to the female birthing process. If he doesn't drop everything and sprint to the delivery room, he's a worthless son of a bitch. That's the new norm. Movies and TV shows encourage this with not-so-subtle conditioning and propaganda.

Here again, as in all else in America, her demands, her requirements matter above all else. Our needs, feelings, and requirements matter none at all.

Post: #11

No way I'll be in the delivery room for the birth of my child. Not for all the pleading in the world. To be frank I seriously doubt that most women want their husbands in the delivery room anyway. At least they wouldn't if they gave it any thought. I've only seen animal births irl, and human births only in documentaries, but that is more than enough...Would definitely be at the hospital though, unless there was a very, very compelling reason to be elsewhere.

As to the OP's question:
It's a relatively tough one, but no doubt there are options. Induced labour? Also, you can't be sure when she will give birth. You may be able to play the game and still make it back. You never know. If you miss it, I'm sure the organisers will put up a "congratulations" message on the jumbotron. May make the wife feel a bit better.

Post: #12

(03-26-2014 01:05 PM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  No way I'll be in the delivery room for the birth of my child. Not for all the pleading in the world. To be frank I seriously doubt that most women want their husbands in the delivery room anyway. At least they wouldn't if they gave it any thought. I've only seen animal births irl, and human births only in documentaries, but that is more than enough...Would definitely be at the hospital though, unless there was a very, very compelling reason to be elsewhere.

As to the OP's question:
It's a relatively tough one, but no doubt there are options. Induced labour? Also, you can't be sure when she will give birth. You may be able to play the game and still make it back. You never know. If you miss it, I'm sure the organisers will put up a "congratulations" message on the jumbotron. May make the wife feel a bit better.

That's the thing. A lot of this is just knee-jerk or the PC thing to do.

The media (jocks) make it sound to be a life/death struggle that if this team doesn't win now, or if that team drops ONE more, well, it's dire consequences. But as soon as wifey hits the delivery room, well suddenly, the game is just a game - hell, it's just money -, and so the Star just NEEDS TO BE THERE BY HER SIDE to make sure he's bonding with his little miracle. See ya! Congratulations! Don't rush back!

Post: #13

This is a great question. It would be a tough call to make if you were in this situation, not for any ethical reasons, but because of social perceptions.

*It is currently the perception that it is really important for the father to be present for the birth. Never used to be that way.

*It is currently the perception that it is a bad thing for a father to prioritize paying the bills and providing for his family. Dads are often made out to be a bad guy because they don't have time to do every single thing their family demands of them (See the film: Courageous).

If you don't do as well professionally as she expected, she'll consider divorce when you can't afford the big house she expects.

If you don't show up for the birth and play the game instead, if she considers divorce at some point, she'll use your "failure as a father" to justify it.

You really can't win.

Solution: Don't get married.

Post: #14

No idea where dad was when I was born. Probably smoking cigarettes and having a Canadian Club.

I do know that when my younger brother was born he was on the golf course.

Post: #15

Game. Easily. It's important in maintaining your career, and the birth can take place without you.

It's not dude's fault shit ended up going down during a pre-planned event. I imagine many guys can't be present for the birth due to similar, less crucial obligations.

As for being in the delivery room during birth, I wonder if that's expected in Asian cultures. My guess is no, given that traditional gender roles are more common, and it's probably frowned upon for the man to watch the birth. Anyone know about this?

Post: #16

This is definitely one of those "old school" vs. "new school" arguments. It pops up every now and then when contemporary athletes are weighing whether to leave to team or not. For athletes of earlier generations, there was nothing to think about - they were expected to play, and get back home at the next opportunity. It wasn't uncommon for them to miss the birth of pretty much all of their kids. Many expressed regret after their playing days were over though. The contemporary player, with all of the discussion of men getting paternity time, and our more "emotionally in-touch" society, the sentiment is different. Men are now expected to be there to support their spouse, and hold their new-born child. Team management and other players are now more understanding of a player missing regular-season games, but most players probably wouldn't think of missing a post-season game for the birth of a child. Most spouses also understand. They have a pretty good life due to what their husbands do for a living, and learn to suck it up and not complain about something like this. If it's possible for him to be there for the birth and still make it back to wherever the game is in reasonable time to play, teams will usually do whatever they can to help facilitate because it's a great PR move.

Post: #17

Ahh a true test of love. I woulda said "Bitch this is how I pay the bills".

He should of had the discussion with her weeks or months prior. His career is pretty much dead now.

Post: #18

*The player in question already outlasted his job expectancy, the average player only is in the NFL from 3-6 seasons.

* By the time they have been retired for two years, 78% of former NFL players have gone bankrupt or are under financial stress because of joblessness or divorce.

As many on this forum will attest to, a child is a long term investment. The NFL, not so much.

Fuck being there for your wife, be there for your kid.

Post: #19

When did this "the father has to be there when the kid is born" started? Men aren't needed to be present, we're pretty useless there, unless you're talking about psychological support, but even that is bullshit, women have been having kids for millennia without men present and they've done pretty well. All this is just another modern pc invention. But if you say this you'll automatically be accused of not loving your wife and your kid and that you're such a horrible human being. Probably a few "he's not a real man" will be thrown in as well. I could care less, when my kid is born I'll most likely be in the Hospital, unless something urgent and important forces me to be somewhere else, but there is no way I'll be inside the room.

Post: #20

When A-Rod was going through his divorce drama with his wife Cynthia, she used this to disparage him publicly - to basically call him out as a pussy. Apparently, he fainted in the delivery room. Her mother was also present, and claimed to have to attend to both him and the expectant mother. He supposedly never held the child, and hightailed it out of there to rejoin the team.

Post: #21

Actually if you look at shows/movies that depict an earlier era the older women sho the men away or tell them to go back to work as they just get in the way and are not needed.

I think the change to the man being there in the delivery room is an offshoot of feminisim and being "equals" as now the woman expects the man to be there to share in her pain. They don't understand that the man's place is to provide for that family, not be an emotional tampon. Older generations understood that birth is a very female specific thing that only other women truly understand and can empathize with the new mother.

Another thing that has changed over the years-Changing diapers. My dad never once touched one.

Post: #22

If a star player decides on the game while his wife is giving birth to their child, his mind may not be 100% on the game.

Players often have some of their best form shortly after the birth of their first child - it seems like a calming influence on them and makes them more assured.

Really it's no one's business but that of the player and his wife. If a club owner or teammates tried to compel the player to play when he doesn't want to, that player will more than likely be looking for a new club once he goes off contract - which would be a loss to the team as a whole.

Post: #23

I say yes.

Sure, a guy could miss a Stanley Cup finals game, but there is the off-chance he could do it again.

To be with your son or daughter as they take their first breath is something that cannot be replicated.

Post: #24

to me it's more about being actively present for the rest of his young adulthood than just his conception, which certainly is important but less so in the long haul

.02

Post: #25

(03-26-2014 07:37 PM)startedfromscratch Wrote:  to me it's more about being actively present for the rest of his young adulthood than just his conception, which certainly is important but less so in the long haul

.02

startedfromscratch, I sincerely, sincerely hope you were present for his conception. ;-)