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Ukraine conflict lounge
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Big Nilla Offline
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Post: #2301
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
Wonder why Kiev is deploying the S-300 near Odessa? Maybe the Transdniester blockade situation is heating up.
02-27-2015 12:17 PM
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Lika Offline
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Post: #2302
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(02-27-2015 12:17 PM)Big Nilla Wrote:  Wonder why Kiev is deploying the S-300 near Odessa? Maybe the Transdniester blockade situation is heating up.

[Image: 4TmaZ5Ryl2k.jpg]

[Image: ukraine610-1.jpg&w=1484]
02-27-2015 12:30 PM
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rover Offline
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Post: #2303
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(02-27-2015 12:17 PM)Big Nilla Wrote:  Wonder why Kiev is deploying the S-300 near Odessa? Maybe the Transdniester blockade situation is heating up.

Man, that's a head scratcher. According to this, Ukies are preparing to attack Russia:

Quote:The likeliest explanation of this would be that the new (ever since the February 2014 coup) anti-Russian Ukrainian Government intends to bring NATO in to invade Russia and to do this by provoking a limited attack from Russia that will then be repelled by these S-300s. After surviving Russia’s response, NATO would then claim Ukraine must be defended from Russia’s aggression; and, then, NATO would take over the task of eliminating Russia — which the present leaders of Ukraine (and their followers) have been very clear that they want to happen.

My theory is they are just moving them to Odessa port to ship to ISIS or whomever, - every dolla counts now.
02-27-2015 04:21 PM
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jimukr104 Offline
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Post: #2304
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
^^^ YEAH...
02-27-2015 05:14 PM
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micha Offline
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Post: #2305
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(02-27-2015 04:21 PM)rover Wrote:  
(02-27-2015 12:17 PM)Big Nilla Wrote:  Wonder why Kiev is deploying the S-300 near Odessa? Maybe the Transdniester blockade situation is heating up.

Man, that's a head scratcher. According to this, Ukies are preparing to attack Russia:

Quote:The likeliest explanation of this would be that the new (ever since the February 2014 coup) anti-Russian Ukrainian Government intends to bring NATO in to invade Russia and to do this by provoking a limited attack from Russia that will then be repelled by these S-300s. After surviving Russia’s response, NATO would then claim Ukraine must be defended from Russia’s aggression; and, then, NATO would take over the task of eliminating Russia — which the present leaders of Ukraine (and their followers) have been very clear that they want to happen.

My theory is they are just moving them to Odessa port to ship to ISIS or whomever, - every dolla counts now.

Laugh2
02-28-2015 06:41 AM
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micha Offline
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Post: #2306
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
On a more serious note:

I came across that quote when I looked up Nemtsov on Wikipedia.

„Putin begun the war with Ukraine because he was scared of a repetition of the Maidan in Moscow, to show that a revolution is ended with chaos and that people cannot remove authorities in such a way.“

– Boris Nemtsov: 28. Juni 2014


For me, that sheds a whole different light on the situation and would actually answer all the questions about an "endgame" and such. Maybe there isn't one.
02-28-2015 10:07 AM
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NomadofEU Offline
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Post: #2307
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
The latest dispatch from VICE is a little more balanced in its reporting





Elena @3:55: "When the Ukrainian army was here for six months, we only received humanitarian aid once.
That was a month ago. That was it, we received no more.
And now it's been three days since we were liberated, and we've received humanitarian aid every day."

Tells you everything you need to know

... I got the bang.
02-28-2015 03:43 PM
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aphelion Offline
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Post: #2308
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
Would it be good to bring American dollars into Ukraine when I travel there? I don't have any here, but I can surely exchange before I come in.

Check out my occasionally updated travel thread - The Wroclaw Gambit II: Dzięki Bogu - as I prepare to emigrate to Poland.
03-01-2015 05:37 PM
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rover Offline
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Post: #2309
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
Found in Debaltsevo:

[Image: XwIgxHcmQwg.jpg]
03-01-2015 05:42 PM
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Feisbook Control Offline
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Post: #2310
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(03-01-2015 05:42 PM)rover Wrote:  Found in Debaltsevo:

[Image: XwIgxHcmQwg.jpg]

Where'd you find that pic?
03-01-2015 09:19 PM
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rover Offline
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Post: #2311
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(03-01-2015 09:19 PM)Feisbook Control Wrote:  Where'd you find that pic?

On the rebels' blog https://vk.com/strelkov_info, the post said it was found in a dugout in Debaltsevo, perhaps left by a US volunteer or instructor.
03-01-2015 10:10 PM
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Feisbook Control Offline
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Post: #2312
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(03-01-2015 10:10 PM)rover Wrote:  
(03-01-2015 09:19 PM)Feisbook Control Wrote:  Where'd you find that pic?

On the rebels' blog https://vk.com/strelkov_info, the post said it was found in a dugout in Debaltsevo, perhaps left by a US volunteer or instructor.

I'm pro-rebels, but I'm extremely sceptical of this. It just seems like it's way too convenient a false flag (if you'll pardon the pun). I'd need to see something more convincing. Why would an American just happen to leave a US Marines flag like that? Firstly, it would seem like a pure gift to the enemy. Secondly, doesn't the US military have some sort of steroid level respect for flags? I just can't see it. The only possibility (other than the rebels bullshitting everyone) would be some next level thing where it wasn't left by a US soldier, but an intelligence operative or someone in the State Department who wanted to try to get Putin to flip his lid and overplay his hand by rolling the tanks across the border, so that the US really could go all-in with justification that Putin had started it. Who knows, right, but I'm just not buying that some fleeing American Marine left his flag behind.
03-02-2015 11:46 AM
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jimukr104 Offline
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Post: #2313
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
^^Dude anyone could buy that. I have seen NYPD hats/shirts in UA!
03-02-2015 12:06 PM
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rover Offline
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Post: #2314
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(03-02-2015 11:46 AM)Feisbook Control Wrote:  I'm pro-rebels, but I'm extremely sceptical of this. It just seems like it's way too convenient a false flag (if you'll pardon the pun). I'd need to see something more convincing. Why would an American just happen to leave a US Marines flag like that? Firstly, it would seem like a pure gift to the enemy. Secondly, doesn't the US military have some sort of steroid level respect for flags? I just can't see it. The only possibility (other than the rebels bullshitting everyone) would be some next level thing where it wasn't left by a US soldier, but an intelligence operative or someone in the State Department who wanted to try to get Putin to flip his lid and overplay his hand by rolling the tanks across the border, so that the US really could go all-in with justification that Putin had started it. Who knows, right, but I'm just not buying that some fleeing American Marine left his flag behind.

Tough crowd! The rebels didn't make any serious accusations as in "holy shit, look, USA army is here", more of amused tone "hey, check out what we found, funny shit". As far as planting this on purpose - doubt it: they don't particularly care of the audience reaction on that blog, - if they did, they would at least bother to translate it into English. Could this be purchased and then left by some Ukies? - I guess so, although I've never seen a banner like this for sale in my life, but then I never really looked. Anyway, who cares.
03-02-2015 12:59 PM
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Big Nilla Offline
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Post: #2315
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
"Posted by journalists from the occupied Odessa. "Preparing the destruction of field roads in the Odessa region, which leads to the border with Transnistria. According to the website of the main Goskomagentstva in the Odessa region, Odessa region border service requires you to do a number of impassable roads in the Frunze district. There was a meeting with the First Deputy Frunze district administration Osiychuka DC, border village presidents villages Pavlovka, Ёsipovki and Vasilievka. Kotovskaya frontier made ​​by the Chief, who informed the meeting about the need to work on the destruction of field roads that go to the border, to avoid the free access to it, but only through the checkpoints. This matter has been assigned to a village presidents. Pavlivka, p. Ёsipovka with. Vasilevka. As you know, the roads leading to the border with Transnistria."
03-03-2015 01:20 PM
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pozdnyshev Offline
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Post: #2316
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
You should read what Mark Ames had to say about Nemtsov.

(02-28-2015 10:07 AM)micha Wrote:  On a more serious note:

I came across that quote when I looked up Nemtsov on Wikipedia.

„Putin begun the war with Ukraine because he was scared of a repetition of the Maidan in Moscow, to show that a revolution is ended with chaos and that people cannot remove authorities in such a way.“

– Boris Nemtsov: 28. Juni 2014


For me, that sheds a whole different light on the situation and would actually answer all the questions about an "endgame" and such. Maybe there isn't one.
03-03-2015 08:57 PM
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Old Fritz Offline
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Post: #2317
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
So what do you guys think the end game of Ukraine is? What will ultimately happen? Civil war? Partition? NATO vs Russia? There is just so much misinformation out there it is hard to tell.
03-03-2015 10:06 PM
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RexImperator Offline
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Post: #2318
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
It seems perhaps that in the longer term Putin aims to show that NATO is toothless against an unconventional adversary. That is, the alliance will stand up against an overt invasion but what if it's an "internal rebellion" or there's plausible deniability?

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03-03-2015 10:41 PM
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Big Nilla Offline
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Post: #2319
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
http://www.infowars.com/obama-netanyahu-...d-in-2009/

Yeah, this is the "Ukraine conflict" thread but it's actually a Russian-American conflict thread and Syria and Iran are part of this mess.

The link above describes how the American negotiation with Iran is just for public consumption and not genuine. It's the lead-up to bombing them. I knew something was off with this supposed Obama-Bibi dispute.

Quote:Obama-Netanyahu “Fallout” is Theater – Planned in 2009

US and Israel attempting to establish feigned "diplomatic row" to justify "unilateral" Israeli attack on Iran

In a 2009 US policy paper published by the corporate-financier funded Brookings Institution, it was made clear that the US was determined to provoke Iran into a conflict and effect regime change at any cost – up to and including an outright military invasion and occupation of Iran with US troops.

However, before it came to that, the Brookings Institution’s policymakers explored other options including fomenting US-backed political unrest coupled with covert, violent force, the use of US State Department listed foreign terrorist organizations to carry out assassinations and attacks within Iran, and limited airstrikes carried out by either the US or Israel, or both.

In retrospect, 6 years on, all of these tricks have not only been attempted to one degree or another in Iran, but have been demonstrably employed in neighboring Syria to diminish its strength – which according to Brookings – is a necessary prerequisite before waging war on Iran.

And of particular interest – considering what appears to be a growing diplomatic row between the United States and Israel – is just how precisely the US planned to covertly back what would be made to appear as a “unilateral” Israeli first strike on Iran – an attack that appears to be in the process of being justified through a carefully orchestrated propaganda campaign now unfolding.

From the Mouths of US Policymakers Themselves

The Brookings Institution’s 2009 policy paper titled, “Which Path to Persia? Options for a New American Strategy Toward Iran,” makes clear that negotiations with Iran over its nuclear program is merely theater, and that it will be used to give the world the impression that the United States explored all possible “peaceful” options before resorting to violent regime change. The report states specifically that:

…any military operation against Iran will likely be very unpopular around the world and require the proper international context— both to ensure the logistical support the operation would require and to minimize the blowback from it. The best way to minimize international opprobrium and maximize support (however, grudging or covert) is to strike only when there is a widespread conviction that the Iranians were given but then rejected a superb offer—one so good that only a regime determined to acquire nuclear weapons and acquire them for the wrong reasons would turn it down. Under those circumstances, the United States (or Israel) could portray its operations as taken in sorrow, not anger, and at least some in the international community would conclude that the Iranians “brought it on themselves” by refusing a very good deal.

Of course, Iran – as admitted to by Brookings themselves – is not governed by irrational leadership, and would not turn down a genuinely “superb offer.” The Brookings Institution admits openly that the US pursues a dual track foreign policy – one for public consumption (making “superb offers”) and another aimed at ensuring Iran looks as unreasonable as possible.

At one point in the policy paper, Brookings would state:

The truth is that these all would be challenging cases to make. For that reason, it would be far more preferable if the United States could cite an Iranian provocation as justification for the airstrikes before launching them. Clearly, the more outrageous, the more deadly, and the more unprovoked the Iranian action, the better off the United States would be. Of course, it would be very difficult for the United States to goad Iran into such a provocation without the rest of the world recognizing this game, which would then undermine it. (One method that would have some possibility of success would be to ratchet up covert regime change efforts in the hope that Tehran would retaliate overtly, or even semi-overtly, which could then be portrayed as an unprovoked act of Iranian aggression.)

Here, Brookings policymakers openly conspire to undermine global peace by “goading” another nation into a war it neither wants nor will benefit from. Provoking a nation that poses no threat to the national security of the United States is a clear violation of international law – with the Brookings paper serving as a literal signed confession.

Yet despite this open admission, conspiring against world peace, what is of more interest is the United States’ plans to disavow any responsibility for an attack it would use its regional proxy, Israel, to carry out in its place. It states specifically under a chapter titled, “Allowing or Encouraging an Israeli Military Strike,” that:

…the most salient advantage this option has over that of an American air campaign is the possibility that Israel alone would be blamed for the attack. If this proves true, then the United States might not have to deal with Iranian retaliation or the diplomatic backlash that would accompany an American military operation against Iran. It could allow Washington to have its cake (delay Iran’s acquisition of a nuclear weapon) and eat it, too (avoid undermining many other U.S. regional diplomatic initiatives).

To no one’s surprise the British Daily Mail now reports in an article titled, “President Obama threatened to shoot down Israeli jets if they attacked Iranian nuclear facilities last year, claim sources,” that:

President Obama is alleged to have stopped an Israeli military attack against Iran’s nuclear facilities in 2014 by threatening to shoot down Israeli jets before they could reach their targets, according to reports to emerge from the Middle East at the weekend.

The threat from the U.S. forced Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu to abort a planned attack on Iraq, reported Kuwaiti newspaper Al-Jarida.

Netanyahu will be in Washington for an address to Congress on Tuesday aimed squarely at derailing Obama’s cherished bid for a diplomatic deal with Tehran.

Here, the Daily Mail repeats a growing narrative that dovetails neatly into long-standing US foreign policy described by the Brookings Institution’s report in 2009 – down to the letter. In fact, the prospect of “shooting down” Israeli planes was discussed as one of many props used in this geopolitical theater.

The US, as prescribed by Brookings, is portrayed as desperately trying to hammer out an almost unreasonably accommodation with Iran, while “mad dog” Israel seeks to unilaterally attack Iran – thus giving the US the plausible deniability it openly claimed it would disingenuously attempt to create ahead of any Israeli attack on Iran. It should be noted that the summation of Israel’s military might is a result long, extensive, and continuous US military support meaning that Israeli military operation is even possible without it.

Also of interest is Israel’s habitual, belligerent, serial acts of inhumanity against both its own people and the Palestinians whose land Tel Aviv has seized and continues to occupy. The nature of these acts is not one of self-preservation, but of intentional provocation – creating predictable political divides across the West easily manipulated particularly at times like these where a “regrettable” attack made upon Iran, a nation the West has thus far failed to topple with terrorism, US-backed sedition, sanctions, and covert provocations, is now in the cards.

It is also clear that the 2009 “Which Path to Persia?” policy paper still represents a vivid window into a much deeper and well-entrenched doctrine still to this day being used to reorder the Middle East into alignment with Western special interests. It is a signed confession of a now evident conspiracy against global peace and stability. It should be read, in full, before the United Nations Security Council before those who wrote it and the corporate-financier interests who sponsored it are brought to international justice.

Anything less proves that the United States and its regional proxies, not Iran, are the rogue states, working against global peace and stability, with many standing examples already of their atrocities on display, and more – apparently – still to come.
03-04-2015 11:16 AM
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Sonsowey Offline
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Post: #2320
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
I am very confused by this conflict.

I have read a number of sources saying that essentially, Russia's military is not at war with Ukraine, that this is Kiev's aggression against separatists who are themselves Ukranian citizens.

Other sources of course blame it all on Russia and say that Russia has moved its military into Ukraine.

I straight up have no idea what to believe. Is the Russian military fighting in Ukraine or not?

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03-06-2015 05:35 PM
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Yatagan Offline
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Post: #2321
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(03-06-2015 05:35 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  I am very confused by this conflict.

I have read a number of sources saying that essentially, Russia's military is not at war with Ukraine, that this is Kiev's aggression against separatists who are themselves Ukranian citizens.

Other sources of course blame it all on Russia and say that Russia has moved its military into Ukraine.

I straight up have no idea what to believe. Is the Russian military fighting in Ukraine or not?

Of course the Russian military isn't involved(beyond advisers and possibly some disguised reconnaissance units). If it was, you really think this conflict would've lasted this long? The notion that Russia would send it's army without any air cover and drag things out this long with piling casualties is ridiculous beyond belief.

The whole "Russia invaded Ukraine" bit is propaganda for internal and western consumption and a means for Porky to save face for his incompetent military getting it's ass chewed up by the rebels that they outnumber and are materially superior to.
(This post was last modified: 03-06-2015 05:50 PM by Yatagan.)
03-06-2015 05:48 PM
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rover Offline
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Post: #2322
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(03-06-2015 05:35 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  I straight up have no idea what to believe. Is the Russian military fighting in Ukraine or not?

The regular Russian army is not fighting in Ukraine, but it's clear that a fair number of Russian "volunteers" from the military are, my estimate is of up to 10% of the overall rebels' force, mostly in commanding/planning/servicing high tech capacity. It's basically your garden variety proxy war between NATO and Moscow, on top of the civil war conflict between East and West of Ukraine. NATO wants to escalate while Moscow plays to defend the status quo and waits for the rest of Ukraine to collapse economically.
03-06-2015 06:55 PM
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turkishcandy Offline
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Post: #2323
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(03-06-2015 05:35 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  I am very confused by this conflict.

I have read a number of sources saying that essentially, Russia's military is not at war with Ukraine, that this is Kiev's aggression against separatists who are themselves Ukranian citizens.

Other sources of course blame it all on Russia and say that Russia has moved its military into Ukraine.

I straight up have no idea what to believe. Is the Russian military fighting in Ukraine or not?

Ukrainian army has been defending Ukraine against Russian army with all its might for a year now. Russia still couldn't conquer Ukraine despite countless attempts, thanks to the bravery of the heroes of Ukraine.

Also, Turkey can invade U.S. if it wants to.
03-06-2015 07:02 PM
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Caveman Offline
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Post: #2324
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(03-06-2015 05:35 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  I am very confused by this conflict.

I have read a number of sources saying that essentially, Russia's military is not at war with Ukraine, that this is Kiev's aggression against separatists who are themselves Ukranian citizens.

Other sources of course blame it all on Russia and say that Russia has moved its military into Ukraine.

I straight up have no idea what to believe. Is the Russian military fighting in Ukraine or not?

I made a few attempts to explain the geopolitical game in this conflict. I suggest you search for all my posts in this thread and that should give you a clear picture of what is going on, at least from my point of view.
03-07-2015 04:03 AM
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Post: #2325
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge
(03-06-2015 05:48 PM)Seboist Wrote:  If it was, you really think this conflict would've lasted this long?

How long did the Chechnya conflict last?

Remember Ukraine is nearly one third the size of Russia in terms of population.
03-07-2015 07:59 AM
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