America won the battle. They got their power shift so that Ukraine serves EU masters and maybe in a few years they can even put some missiles in Ukraine facing Russia. But Russia will not give up Crimea.

Ukrainian people can now get ready for EU "harmony" in the form of economic austerity. They can ask the Greeks and Spaniards how that works. On the bright side, corruption will not be as blatant. Trading one master for another, what a shitty deal for them. In the meanwhile, hardship and stagnation for the next 5-15 years as their protected industries open up to IMF demands, their currency is devalued to its market price, and the price of basics shoot up. I weep for the Ukrainian people, but don't blame them for wanting to trade in their current incompetent and corrupt masters.

(02-22-2014 12:02 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  

(02-22-2014 11:51 AM)DaveR Wrote:  

(02-22-2014 11:21 AM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  Feminism, tourism, Russia, America, EU, non of those mean anything to the average person. They want work, food on the table, a descent standard of living.

So, can we assume that the South/East of the country don't want those things, since they made up only 7.4% of the 'protestors'?

Looks like the south/east region has a higher per capita income, lower unemployment, and is more industrialized than the west. If that is really the case, then they simply don't have as much to protest about.

As Rex mentioned above, people are generally content if they elites share the wealth and put money back into the economy. When it becomes a racket, the guillotines come out.

I have heard the analysis that a lot of the industrialized east industry is propped up by government policy and the oligarch owners and workers would do poorly on an open market. I don't know much about it.

Ukraine is competitive in technology services and that includes the west. This sector will actually be more actually be more lucrative in a European context. The institutional uncertainty in Ukraine puts up huge barriers to doing business in this domain. So, the risk is often managed by outsourcing companies (located outside Ukraine) who take a good amount of the profits. A Ukrainian engineer in the west (or elsewhere) can easily cost up to 100k a year. 70% of the profits will go to the offshore company.

A quote from an Ukrainian, living in Odessa, on another forum. This was from days ago but it shows how hard up the government was for fighting back.

Quote:They've started sending Army invites (there's a soviet name for them, no idea what it is in English) in my city of Odessa, so that all men below the age of 40 will have to go to a gathering point and will probably be sent to Kiev to fight the protesters. I got one.

Of course, no sane person will go.

If that doesn't tell you how desperate the current power is, I don't know what does.

In other news - many politicians from the Region's Party are fleeing the country.

http://www.wickedfire.com/shooting-shit/...illed.html

Putin is a weak leader. Even pro-putin writer Israel Shamir says so. israelshamir.net .

This is a disaster and I blame the lack of a positive ideology to counter the years of pro-western prop fed to young Ukrainians .Putinism cannot fight back ideologically as it would not be PC.
Putinism is a weak ideology and is basically just surrender to the USA at the fastest plausibly deniable pace. The West is trying to shrink Russian influence after Russia helped Assad resist the Zionist plan there.
He bans more serious thinkers like Limonov :

"Russian women are very, very bad. The worst of all. Russian women is like the Russian Government. Most Russian women at least are good looking when they are in their twenties. Some Russian women are gorgeously beautiful. But they are bad. They are treacherous because they have no moral principles. Christian faith was eliminated during existence of the Soviet Union so nobody taught Russian women morals. No such discipline was taught in Soviet schools. Russian woman hates man because she is envying him. She wants to be as brutal and stupid as him, she wants to lay on a divan doing nothing as man does, but she has less possibilities. Russian woman is disastrous, relationships with her destined to be tragedy. There is no way that you will end happily. You must subjugate her. If not, she will subjugate you. On both occasions, you will lose. Don't forget that abortions and divorces were permitted even in Stalin's Russia, so our country educated women as bitches. Millions of bitches walking our streets. I am absolutely and positively on the side of Muslim strict code of behavior for women. Their system of separation of sexes if effective and healthy."

I am utterly fed up of the West and want to live full time in eastern europe. I used to live in Transylvania with an old German who claimed to have had thousands of women and who had women arriving daily even while he was on the way out with gangrene and heart disease. He went to the USA for treatment and they left him sleep in the airport after surgery and the police took his camper van.


http://news.belta.by/en/news/politics?id=649426 This guy Cherginets can help writers publish in Belarus if anyone wants to send him a project. He put me on TV there to say how cool Belarus was and talk about problems in the West.

Some more stuff coming out...

   
   
   

^^^ CIA is getting lazy.

the lid to a pot wont stop a bullet

Who would bang for the Presidential Flag?

What a huge blow for Putinism. I thought he would have been able to put up a resistance for a while longer.

This is only the beginning....

(02-22-2014 04:12 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  What a huge blow for Putinism. I thought he would have been able to put up a resistance for a while longer.

I did not know that Putin was in charge of the Ukrainian security forces.

^LOL So you think America is the only one playing the role of the puppeteer here? LOL Just fell out of my chair that's a good one.

(02-22-2014 12:24 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

(02-22-2014 08:40 AM)Roosh Wrote:  One of the better combat videos: http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/0...-kiev.html

The police is remarkably restrained.

I noticed this as well. I don't know if the video is biased in some way, but the policemen mostly stand around and block despite being attacked in various ways.

(02-22-2014 04:28 PM)MHaes Wrote:  ^LOL So you think America is the only one playing the role of the puppeteer here?

That is not what I wrote. I wrote that Putin is not formally at the top of the chain of command of the Ukrainian security forces.

(02-22-2014 12:51 PM)Roosh Wrote:  I weep for the Ukrainian people, but don't blame them for wanting to trade in their current incompetent and corrupt masters.

Agree 100%. I think this chain of events is a stark reminder of the extremely poor option that conservatives often present to their constituents. I didn't get the impression that the protesters cared that much about press freedoms or Tymoshenko, but rather just about economy and not being robbed blind by ludicrous amounts of corruption. If Yanukuvich's government had made Ukraine a more prosperous place rather than a world synonym for corruption and nepotism, the anger would not have bubbled to this level and none of these events would have happened. I'd say that the government basically committed suicide.

Though Croatia is significantly more developed than Ukraine, that basic current is the same here. Many people who vote for the left, me included, are literally itching to vote for a conservative option if only one would appear with a half-sensible economic program and at least some restraint about stuffing its pockets.

(02-22-2014 05:05 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  If Yanukuvich's government had made Ukraine a more prosperous place rather than a world synonym for corruption and nepotism, the anger would not have bubbled to this level and none of these events would have happened.

I think you're exaggerating. Yanukovych is a crook, and so are his homies. But he came to the national government only in 2002. Before that, Ukraine was independent for a whole decade, and things were a disaster nonetheless. Things were not peachy under President Kuchma.

(02-22-2014 12:51 PM)Roosh Wrote:  America won the battle. They got their power shift so that Ukraine serves EU masters and maybe in a few years they can even put some missiles in Ukraine facing Russia. But Russia will not give up Crimea.

Ukrainian people can now get ready for EU "harmony" in the form of economic austerity. They can ask the Greeks and Spaniards how that works. On the bright side, corruption will not be as blatant. Trading one master for another, what a shitty deal for them. In the meanwhile, hardship and stagnation for the next 5-15 years as their protected industries open up to IMF demands, their currency is devalued to its market price, and the price of basics shoot up. I weep for the Ukrainian people, but don't blame them for wanting to trade in their current incompetent and corrupt masters.

Usa won the battle..not the war. I think Putin is playing chess. He will have the East and South fall into his hands after years of the type of treatment the Russians get in Latvia.
They made a parliamentary type gov't..this will draw everything out. It will be like Yuchenkos rule all over again. Fist fights on the parliament floor.
And yes...if the people had more food on the table this wouldn't have happened. Yanuk was voted into a bad economy(not his fault) and things got worst.
Look what is happening around the world.. we be stupid to think economics doesn't play a part. One of the reasons that the South and East didn't rally (partly in addition to the fact that Ukrainian nationalists scare them) is that they had nothing to lose. Certainly if things was improving there would have been more resistance.
That being said... this will not end yet.Future elections will always be a riot. I would laugh if the communist party wins the election.

(02-22-2014 03:49 PM)Sailor Wrote:  

Who would bang for the Presidential Flag?

A few years in prison will push anyone into the wall.

(02-22-2014 11:40 AM)DaveR Wrote:  Demonstrations in Crimea... They're demanding that Crimea be reunited with the Rodina(Motherland). Police are signing up recruits to a 'citizen's patrol'.

If Crimea goes, I think the remaining South and the East will move towards secession. Without Crimea, the electorate will be unbalanced and they'll never have a chance of any representation in Parliament.

(02-22-2014 10:52 AM)MHaes Wrote:  I don't see why Americans are complaining even if we organized a coup in the Ukraine. If we did, there are obviously US interests at stake there. And even if those interests are only directly affecting some US corporation or something, so what? It will obviously increase their revenues, and that cash that would have been going into the Russian economy will now be trickling into the US economy. It's a win for us.

Yes, it's a win for America. Today they added a few million to the number of people who already hated your country. What was previously an internal conflict can now be blamed on Americans and Europeans.

Also remember that when you play with fire, sometimes burnt. If 9/11 isn't a strong enough example, I don't know what is.

yes.. one point for expats escaping feminism it isn't a win for. now the girls will be harder.
But Dave said it correctly.. the slutty East and South girls will HATE foreigners for a while anyway. I saw this happen after the orange revolution. The Western girls are more prudish so no win over there.
I guess Kiev girls will be more open.. but since as we all know kievan Rus Slavs seem to always prefer their own men.. now they might think their men will make more money and wait for them.
Marriage agencies have gotten less members since they developed hope. If your looking for over 30 though maybe there will be an improvement?
Those women will be to old to benefit from an improved economy.it s really the under 30 that can hope to achieve anything. I think the over 30 got hammered in other countries that joined the EU..unless business owners.

(02-22-2014 12:51 PM)Roosh Wrote:  America won the battle. They got their power shift so that Ukraine serves EU masters and maybe in a few years they can even put some missiles in Ukraine facing Russia. But Russia will not give up Crimea.

The population of Crimea seems to really hate the Maidan crowd. See video of them getting beat up in Kerch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h_bRyNxYCM

oh and Yanuk did this to himself.
By signing the accord he sold his own under the bus. So when he left the city... they sold him out.
he should have just called in the army. Even Polish minister was heard telling the opposition to sign or the army will kill them all.
This incident was a loss for the EU maybe..it showed they have no morality. They in the future will not be counted on to intervene any agreements. Leaders now saw how a democratically elected gov't s leader made an agreement and then the accord was broken.

(02-22-2014 06:32 PM)pozdnyshev Wrote:  

(02-22-2014 12:51 PM)Roosh Wrote:  America won the battle. They got their power shift so that Ukraine serves EU masters and maybe in a few years they can even put some missiles in Ukraine facing Russia. But Russia will not give up Crimea.

The population of Crimea seems to really hate the Maidan crowd. See video of them getting beat up in Kerch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h_bRyNxYCM

A bit of US flag burning at the end too... I think you'll see a lot more of that during the next few weeks.

If Crimea secedes, we're seeing the beginning of the story, not the end.

(02-22-2014 07:15 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

(02-22-2014 06:32 PM)pozdnyshev Wrote:  The population of Crimea seems to really hate the Maidan crowd. See video of them getting beat up in Kerch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h_bRyNxYCM

A bit of US flag burning at the end too... I think you'll a lot more of that during the next few weeks.

Ungrateful bastards, this after the US spent $5 billion to try to give them Democracy™... They simply don't know what's good for them. The US should try harder, because “inside every хохол✻ there's an American trying to get out”.

✻ хохол (pronounced ha-whole, with emphasis on whole), 1) the topknot, part of the hair, which was left unshaved, that was worn by Ukrainians in the past, 2) (pejorative) a Ukrainian.

(02-22-2014 07:15 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

(02-22-2014 06:32 PM)pozdnyshev Wrote:  

(02-22-2014 12:51 PM)Roosh Wrote:  America won the battle. They got their power shift so that Ukraine serves EU masters and maybe in a few years they can even put some missiles in Ukraine facing Russia. But Russia will not give up Crimea.

The population of Crimea seems to really hate the Maidan crowd. See video of them getting beat up in Kerch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h_bRyNxYCM

A bit of US flag burning at the end too... I think you'll a lot more of that during the next few weeks.

If Crimea secedes, we're seeing the beginning of the story, not the end.

Man I love Crimea. Beautiful place. But it is so different. It does not feel like Ukraine. If Crimea goes, I think Ukraine may just wave goodbye.

I asked four people in Odessa today if they would support joining a new state with Crimea and the East. They laughed.

I asked the same people if they would support joining Russia, and they laughed harder. Then they said we could not live with that.

Sure my friends all have a post-soviet mentality, and Odessans do like to laugh, but I just don't see this greater separation happening.

Odessa tonight:

(02-22-2014 07:52 PM)rastignac Wrote:  Man I love Crimea. Beautiful place. But it is so different. It does not feel like Ukraine. If Crimea goes, I think Ukraine may just wave goodbye.

I asked four people in Odessa today if they would support joining a new state with Crimea and the East. They laughed.

I asked the same people if they would support joining Russia, and they laughed harder. Then they said we could not live with that.

Sure my friends all have a post-soviet mentality, and Odessans do like to laugh, but I just don't see this greater separation happening.

At the moment it sounds insane because they have a lot of independence. The political balance is very close to 50/50 and has been ever since independence. Odessa is therefore able to act pretty much independently. The only time I've seen them getting political was in 2005-2009 when all the language law insanity was being pushed on them.

A lot has to change before it starts to affect them again, but if Crimea leaves then the ball will be rolling. I can't see Donetsk and Lugansk siting quietly while they're being dominated by the political factions from L'vov. Without Crimea (~ 15% of the PoR vote), the chances of the South/East ever getting into government again would be minuscule, and they know it.

Odessa is set to lose some port business under the AA because of trade and energy tariffs and more goods arriving from Poland by rail. Changes in immigration regulations could easily screw Odessa's tourism business, especially if Russians could fly to Crimea for half the price (due to lower taxes on domestic flights) and pay in Roubles. That may sound like a long shot at the moment, but if a few of the blue regions are lost, the L'vov and its neighbours will have proportionally larger representation.

I agree that regions other than Crimea will never join Russia. They have extremely strong and recent connections which the other regions don't. At the same time, I can't see the East sitting quietly while they're politically akin to a mole on Ukraine's back.

Dmitry Orlov has a good post on the situation in Ukraine: Shock over Ukraine.

Here's an except:

Quote:I am pushing this live a few days early, because the Ukrainian situation is evolving so rapidly. One political corpse (Yanukovych) is out; apparently he has fled to Russia. Another political corpse (Tymoshenko) has been hastily rehabilitated and is ready to be put on the ballot for elections in May. Question is, Will there still be a country for her to (pretend to) run? Financial reserves are down to a few days, federal structures are being dismantled throughout the country, regional governors are fleeing, and a default on some €60 [sic] of Ukrainian bonds, many held by Russian banks, seems likely. Could this be just the kind of financial contagion needed to finally pop the ridiculous US equities bubble? At least two Ukrainian provinces are openly talking secession; one (Crimea) wants to immediately join Russian Federation. A question for US State Dept. flunkies and EU functionaries: What does that do to your geopolitical calculus? At risk are five nuclear power plants and a lot of Russian gas that transits Ukraine on its way west. Ukraine is shaping up to be a lot like Yugoslavia, except with more than twice as many people, lots of crazed street fighters who think they now own the place, and a role critical to European energy security. If you aren't in shock about this, then you haven't been paying attention.