(02-19-2014 11:22 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

(02-19-2014 10:37 PM)rastignac Wrote:  Some solid footage post crackdown yesterday. Be prepared to see a few people dead and dying.

Question..it looked like this is the protesters area but was it a pair of cops I saw? or they stole uniforms?

Real Berkut, I think.

This is what I think I see: protestors shortly after a conflict with the Berkut/Titushkis near Mariinskiy park yesterday in Kyiv and the protestors are mostly down on the ground, wounded. There are a Berkut and pro-govt Titushkis (guys with the sticks) walking around; and one Berkut is even helping with one of the wounded protestors. The one human thing in this pretty brutal video.

A lot of these protestors seem old. Surprised.

Medvedev accuses Yanukovich of being a doormat and seems to reneg on the 2 billion offered earlier in the week. Do you need anymore proof of the continued push of Russia for this "anti-terrorist operation."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/2...Y820140220

"Sorry, Viktor Fedorovych, no money for you. Not good enough."

Many more dead today. Biggest death toll yet, on both sides.

Not at all good for Yanukovich.

I don't understand how the protesters are still being called "protesters."



In the United States, if this was happening here, they'd be labeled terrorists or insurgents.

(02-20-2014 09:21 AM)Roosh Wrote:  In the United States, if this was happening here, they'd be labeled terrorists or insurgents.

They're not protestors as of a few hours ago... Police got official permission to use metal rounds.

Policemen all over some provinces are joining "the people" and defecting their ranks.
Rich oligarcs are fleeing the country by plane.
I think we're seeing the writings on the wall for Yanukovych and his supporters!

^
But on the other hand, we see live ammunition by the army, spelling the end for these protests.


So which way is this thing gonna go?

(02-20-2014 09:21 AM)Roosh Wrote:  I don't understand how the protesters are still being called "protesters."



In the United States, if this was happening here, they'd be labeled terrorists or insurgents.

Yes... they are terrorists for sure. It time for live ammo.

Quote:Rich oligarcs are fleeing the country by plane.

Many of them don't even live in Ukraine.

Right now it's a game of time. The longer it takes Yanukovich to stop this, the less chance he has of retaining power.

1. He waited too long to put it down.
2. His plan was to put it down was grossly deficient.

He doesn't deserve to keep power, but unfortunately for Ukraine, there is no decent leader to take his place. Either way, the people will lose. As a love tourist, I hope this is resolved most expediently.

(02-20-2014 03:33 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  Yes... they are terrorists for sure.

Terrorism could be defined as "the systematic use of violence as a means of coercion for political purposes". By definition, both sides in this conflict are engaged in terrorism.

There's so many ways this could go, from ongoing civil insurrection to the birth of a new country.

(02-20-2014 03:41 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:Rich oligarcs are fleeing the country by plane.

Many of them don't even live in Ukraine.

Right now it's a game of time. The longer it takes Yanukovich to stop this, the less chance he has of retaining power.

1. He waited too long to put it down.
2. His plan was to put it down was grossly deficient.

He doesn't deserve to keep power, but unfortunately for Ukraine, there is no decent leader to take his place. Either way, the people will lose. As a love tourist, I hope this is resolved most expediently.

They should have just waited for elections i n12 months ((. Right secter says it will never give up fight until its demands are met

i think Ukraine will be bad for love tourists either way. Western Ukraine is conservative and the Eastern Ukrainians will be more hostile towards foreigners. After the Orange revolution i noted more anti foreign vibe in the far east(Donbass). They blame us for helping start this shit.
Now if the opposition wins it can benefit foreigners possibly but since the Western ones don't fuck easily....its not a victory. Plus some of the extremist parties actually don't like any foreigners.Some of these groups sound like the Taliban!

A nice place to start for a novice trying to understand modern Ukraine would be the following article on National Geographic:

• Ukraine's endangered revolution (2006)
  

(02-20-2014 03:49 PM)Roosh Wrote:  There's so many ways this could go, from ongoing civil insurrection to the birth of a new country.

Are you putting the Ukraine trip off for a while now Roosh?

(02-20-2014 03:15 PM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  ^
But on the other hand, we see live ammunition by the army, spelling the end for these protests.


So which way is this thing gonna go?

I don't see it going anywhere, to be honest. A delegation from the EU has apparently brokered a deal, but it depends on the three amigos being able to call off the riot (which they can't).

The country has been like this since 2004. Most Ukrainians want the oligarchs and corruption out, but they can't get past their cultural divide.

In the end it is all can be simplified as a batlle for control of pussy.
Western/American way or Eastern/Russian way.

Sadly many, many good men will die.................

(02-20-2014 03:41 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:Rich oligarcs are fleeing the country by plane.

Many of them don't even live in Ukraine.

Right now it's a game of time. The longer it takes Yanukovich to stop this, the less chance he has of retaining power.

1. He waited too long to put it down.
2. His plan was to put it down was grossly deficient.

He doesn't deserve to keep power, but unfortunately for Ukraine, there is no decent leader to take his place. Either way, the people will lose. As a love tourist, I hope this is resolved most expediently.

Yes he acts with no sense of urgency. Part of the problem is his conflict of interests in that he created a mini oligarch of his son based on state enterprises which likely have a large portion of assets based on the Hryvnia. That combined with pressure from the other Oligarchs have prevented him from crushing this "protest" with a state of emergency which would surely cause sanctions and be bad for business. On the other hand, only a strong crackdown releases the next payment for the Russian loan.

He needed to make a choice and deal with the consequences but obviously he governs through his own strategy of pretending to gradually compromise publicly while actually attempting to strengthen his position (ie EU deal).

What is really unclear is what the opposition is going to do with the Pravy Sektor if and when they do get into power. The opposition would be too centrist for the nationalists, and the ultras are more likely interested in anarchy. I doubt that this temporary alliance of ultras and nationalists can last if Yanukovich is removed.

The opposition will certainly not remain united as Klitschko has already developed a presidential sized ego while actually having very little political experience, while Yatsenyuk has too little charisma to be anything more than a temporary manager.

"What is really unclear is what the opposition is going to do with the Pravy Sektor if and when they do get into power. The opposition would be too centrist for the nationalists, and the ultras are more likely interested in anarchy. I doubt that this temporary alliance of ultras and nationalists can last if Yanukovich is removed."

Actually they will need them to help in the civil war.
Many Eastern and Southern oblasts are having "secret" meetings to talk about separatism. Kharkov governor has been bragging about an army being raised. Crimea has had a vote even(poor tatars aren't happy).
If the opposition gets in power without POR compromise it isn't over! Yanuk is just a pawn.

I have been going to Ukraine for a long time. first time was cycle around Crimea with two lovelies.
Met lots of the right-wing nationalist guys last summer in Kiev and they invited me to photo them rioting even back then and they did their rock throwing at the police thing.

If I could find media sponsorship could maybe make a documentary there from the inside of the story. Keen to go back.

Would be sad if this revolution succeeded. EU would destroy what is cool about Ukraine and create another demographic desert. We need a revolution in the West I think but no money bags around to fund such a thing.
Here in Ireland the media is pushing gay marriage. They want to make heterosexuality gradually illegal in the West and make a gay dictatorship.

Also just a friendly reminder that Radio Free Europe is run by the US government.

Its logo:

So what would be the ideal outcome of this for us 'love tourists'?

I'm going over some Western news articles on Ukraine. American media is attempting some veneer of balance, but the British media is pushing some blatant pro-opposition propaganda. Example: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...sters.html

(02-20-2014 06:30 PM)dtf Wrote:  So what would be the ideal outcome of this for us 'love tourists'?

Immediate peaceful resolution that doesn't lead to visa-free travel for Ukrainian women to the EU (they currently need a visa).

Allow me to quote Mencius Moldbug:

Quote:Imagine that revolution is a drug. It's seeking FDA approval. This drug, it's claimed, creates social harmony, good government, the "reign of reason." The mechanism has been studied. Philosophers everywhere agree. The chemistry seems plausible.

At what point in history do you approve the drug? After the French Revolution? The Russian? Where, in history, do we see the drug produce its claimed results? Everywhere - from France in 1789, to Russia in 1917, Libya and Syria in 2012 - we see social catastrophe, mass murder, and the most rigid and savage of military despotisms. Historical comparisons are difficult, of course, but when we're talking about a therapy, the first comparison is obvious: the patient before, the patient after. I mean, duh.

And yet, the good doctors of philosophy, not giving a shit about Hippocrates (obviously a fag) continue prescribing this medicine. The Enlightenment cannot heal itself. It cannot judge itself. Having given birth to the monster of Jacobinism, it produces this same monster again and again - in the 20th century and even the 21st. It finds a perfectly functional, if hardly perfect, absolute monarchy, and replaces it with chaos and terror and death - the rule of the gun at its most direct and barbaric, the "Turks and Tartars." Then it pats itself on the back. Freedom! Yeah, man, freedom! You talk like a fag who doesn't believe in freedom, man. Freedom is cool.

(02-20-2014 03:15 PM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  ^
But on the other hand, we see live ammunition by the army, spelling the end for these protests.


So which way is this thing gonna go?

Yanukovich is pissing his pants.