Post: #126

Would you rather he lie like a lot of game teachers do though? I find both his and Roosh's honesty admirable.

Post: #127

Krauser's data helps explain why the PUA industry makes money: because they sell what are effectively get rich quick schemes to people who don't know better. I'm not sure why Krauser's numbers are considered bad ROI: he is banging, at least from the videos he's posted, high quality girls. "Hot" girls.

In the history of the world average guys have never had easy access or ability to sleep with lots of top tier strange girls (not talking scene/social circle here): these girls are complete and total strangers! Just think about that for a second.

Another thing: the investment is not that great if all you want is just to add 1 or 2 girls to your rotation. I think a lot of guys subconsciously think that they also have to crank through the numbers and have 20+ notches per year. Do you really want that, or do you only *think* you want that because so many on this forum like that?

Post: #128

What do guys think a reasonable ROI is going to be? Serious question. Maybe start a separate thread?

Let's say I only go for 7s and 8s. On any given day:

• What % of them have boyfriends?
• What % of them are on the rag?
• What % of them are in a bad mood?
• What % have places to be and don't want to talk to a stranger?
  

80% or more?

The only guys who bitch about ROI are not true players.

True players know that the vast majority of girls aren't even in the game.

(Oh, I know. I am a Master PUA and can steal any girl from her boyfriend, or at least I can become one with a $4,999 boot camp.)

Your pool of available women is going to be around 10-20%.

Of that, all sorts of things can screw it up even if there is attraction.

Like she's only in town for a few days. She has to visit her family. She just broke up with her boyfriend and even though she likes you isn't really feeling anything right now.

Etc.

Anyone who has a high notch count has been rejected thousands of times.

Post: #129

(03-12-2014 05:13 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  Anyone who has a high notch count has been rejected thousands of times.

This is the root of it. The people who complain about ROI are not actually putting in any I to get an RO.

Most of it is advanced weaseling to persuade themselves not to bother in the first place. Great. I you don't want to play the game you don't have to. But please do us a favour and stop bitching about it.

Post: #130

Anyone complaining about the 'effort' of Game clearly is missing the point:

Game is to be ENJOYED.

It is called 'Game' after all. It is a damn game.

The rejections are a part of the Game. Learn to have fun with it.

The more cats don't want to face rejection and think it requires too much 'effort', simply leave more girls for the 20% players to bang.

Krauser is legit, so I'm not sure why he gets flack on this forum at times.

Post: #131

Michael Jordan was considered one of the greatest scorers of all time and his career field goal percentage is under 50 percent. This means most of the times he took a shot, he was going to miss!

I agree with Christian about enjoying the game.

This ties into Nomad's post about energy.

When the game gives you energy, you will enjoy taking shots all day even if your return percentages look wack on paper!

I have a friend in Toronto that loves dancing with lizards. He spends all night looking for lizards to dance with and he loves opening (best opener I've ever seen). He will collect tons and tons of numbers. Doesn't care much about what happens, I think he TRULY enjoys talking to lizards (part of the Game).

Results: He gets bangs but I don't think his conversion percentage is high when you take in consideration the volume that he works with.

Conclusion: Learn how to tap into the right strategies to unlock the energy that will propel you to enjoy the interactions of game.

Post: #132

Do guys not realize that 27 girls in a year is more than most dudes would get in four lifetimes?

I know college athletes and super rich dudes who've gotten laid less in their lifetime than Krauser has in a year.

I'll bet there are even guys on here who do less than 27 in a year. I think I averaged around two a month in 2013, so even I'm under his annual count.

As unpopular as this is going to be: most of game is a numbers game. It's like playing poker, you can use your skills to gain an advantage, but you aren't guaranteed a win every time.

Post: #133

Regarding piracy online, I think it doesn't really harm authors of informational products that much. If your product is good, most people are fair and will pay you your money. Sure there are assholes who'll simply pirate it and never do so much as a give you a good review, but I feel like there are a lot of people like me out there who might pirate a book and if I like it, I'll buy a legit copy from the author. Online info authors who produce good shit will be returned, as long as they don't make it too easy to pirate it.

Post: #134

(03-12-2014 07:29 PM)RXB Wrote:  I'll bet there are even guys on here who do less than 27 in a year.

I think you overestimate the player-ness of the community. Your two a month (assuming decent quality) probably puts you in the top 2% of this board.

The community is NOT an ensemble cast of the world's greatest players. To put it mildly.

Post: #135

Christian I'm just as perplexed as you, Krauser has been posting videos on his blog for many years now of exactly what he does. That's more than 99% of the community

Post: #136

(03-12-2014 05:13 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  80% or more?

And if someone out there is having sex with 20% of the women he approaches, then I would like to meet him. It's not happening.

All good points by Mike, as usual.

Post: #137

Ok been threading a review together over the past few days:



Meta:

Daygame Mastery - this IS a textbook, complete with key definitions, aside frames, and cascading logical sequences. It's not a drudge to read, however; the writing is engaging and Krauser sets up the context you're getting into. This is a book on game reconsidered from the ground up; it's like doing deadlifts wrong for a year and now you've discovered proper form. It's subtle, you might have felt something off, but now you know what you did wrong, you feel it, and you adjust it.

Krauser has internalized red pill/manosphere tropes and presents the ideas seamlessly in a matter of fact way. If you read this having been exposed to the red pill narrative, you will see this as the latest progression in a continuing dialogue about game.

A couple of metaphors are set up to describe game that appeal to many a guy - from the economists, scientists and philosophers to the entrepreneurs, guitarists and musical aesthetes. The music metaphor resonated well; an almost philosophic treatise on how the instruments that go to make up a good song apply to the different layers of game. But he's not here to lecture about the humanities. After a few pages of context, he zooms into the nuts and bolts of what this book will entail.

From the start Krauser admits this is not a universal, truth to end all truths game treatise, but a set of heuristics drawn from real world experience. Ironically, I'm nodding my head as I turn the page. The game process is likened to setting up a story, mythology, a world view. We're players, in the sense that we're actors, characters, personalities. We need to know the "script" so we can act seamlessly on stage. This requires introspection, especially in knowing what we want, which will be important in the coming approach.



Moving on to practical matters...

There's a section on cold reads which is both hilarious and an effective tool to screen for approaches. I feel like I'm looking at a dossier brief before embarking on a secret mission. I can only imagine an Englishman like Krauser running into an American girl in London. I had to put the book down for a moment and chuckle at the NY slut archetype. It's as if Roosh and Roissy's culture critiques were turned into a cartoon blurb reflected in the American woman. I wonder if it's coincidence that this archetype was placed last...

The prep work involved includes solid advice on where to daygame. It's not about specific data sheets so much as general urban signals including train stations, time of day, and the neighborhood's status in the city.

Sprinkled throughout the book are little reminders of Avoidance Weasels. While we don't want to open up a 3 just to practice, we have to strike a balance between selectivity and the opening weasel. This is something that will take time to master. When you've introspected enough to know what characteristics truly appeals to you, you will have more awareness of solid approach opportunities. Instead of saying to yourself "she looks busy" you might begin to think "she seems like a bubbly actress." On another balance note, we get Krauser's thoughts on spending a day collecting numbers vs going for the bang (maximizing options vs wasting time). A player's dilemma in its own right.

You will experience seeming contradiction throughout the book, but this is more about fine tuning. You need to know the extremes so you can center the scale. Don't weasel your way out of approaching but have standards. have the vibe but don't care about state. It's an emotional roller coaster but you're crafting the story.

There's an entire section on dealing with approach anxiety, from the origins of Mystery's evolutionary theory to the necessity of self-acceptance.

Chapter 2 is the bread and butter of direct daygame: the street. No asking for directions, no indirect weasels, just sheer masculine presence overcoming her entire reality. Krauser meticulously covers every aspect from words to vibe to body language, and sexualization. There's a variety of openers for a variety of possible situations. There's going overboard with direct and there's other scenarios such as off the street and "mother/daughter five sets riding unicycles". Exhaustive. This is what makes daygame, daygame. If it's anything you take out of this book it's the infamous direct approach.



Text Hell (or Heaven?)

While the first half of the book is what many readers automatically think of with "day game" - that is approaching and closing in the daytime. Krauser's text intermission clocks in at a whopping 120 pages of strategy in dealing with text and long game.

This section has given me ideas on how to tweak my text interactions. There is no "one size fits all" text and is contextually dependent on the vibe leading up to the # close. I've been experimenting with these texts after a # close and think it has helped make my texting more lively, in the sense that we're making the most of the medium while setting up logistics.

The intermission of this book just might show you how to be a romance writer - as you read along you may find ideas on how to woo that girl who flew out before you could seal the deal. There's a couple dozen pages devoted to just the massive sexual pictures painted via facebook chat. Don't know how much I'll be using this but I've never seen anything like it before. Well done.



A.B.C.

The date/close portion is broken down into pre-date prep, the actual date, sex and after. For those of you familiar with Bang, this should feel familiar to the Middle/Late game chapters. Interestingly enough, Day 2 is recommended over SDL, essentially saying the SDL is flashy and fun while the day 2 is more reliable. He has a chapter at the end breaking down SDL.

Once the girl comes out with you, it's pretty standard how the game model flows. Within the 3 venue setup, there's a logical progression from re-initiating attraction, picking venues, positioning, building a real connection (not just being gamey), escalating and handling resistance (at various stages). The "Leap of Faith" is a good cheat sheet on how you're progressing through the seduction. Some points are more crucial than others; Krauser breaks this down.

This book takes you all the way to the crucial "pull the trigger point". All your hard work will be for naught if she decides to not get in the taxi. The mastery comes in where you don't flip out but instead wish her well and march off to your own world, content with your story.



Troubleshooting:

The final section is on special situations and deals mostly with difficult girls, "shit tests", and maintaining your frame. The frame crush uses the entitled American princess as an example, is absolutely hilarious and makes me want to see an in-field of Krauser and an American girl in London for the lulz. I think many guys running game in America will find this to be their default. It's really amazing how culture can shape game.

So you've been through 450 pages, now what? More punches - cold approach is not an easy way to get laid. You must put in the time, coupled with the willpower to get through the emotional ride it takes you through. You will have highs and lows, you will feel like a king and a nobody. There is no shortcut, there is no end goal. the road will be long and it won't be pretty. Some game real talk shows up at the end in regards to happiness and expectations. the red pill is bitter for a reason. This wont fix your life, this wont fill the void. if anything, your emotions and expectations may spike to unreasonable levels, and this is when you start to get good.

Day game is fun but it's also high stakes. you need the desire, the sheer lust of putting your balls on the line time and time again. it's not that you have to be an approach machine, but you have to be able to give it your all and expect the walk away at a moment's notice. And just like lifting too many weights a week, there is such a thing as overgaming. you need to balance your active game life with your passive. It's a GRIND, it's unrelenting. How many of us have beaten a video game without any retries? Like your nintendo or PC, game has an on and off switch. It's OK to take a break, to let the system cool down before going back into the jungle.

Speaking of the grind and managing emotions, Krauser's take on solo daygame is subtle but effective. You see plenty of posts about guys wanting to get into state, talk of not having enough energy, or needing to be totally positive and feel good before they can approach, but there are a few simple tricks that will get you approaching directly even if you're not at optimum "state".



Where do we go?

Reading the manosphere for too long can give game this bleak determinism of alpha/evil/dark triad aggression. It's easy to fall astray and feel betrayed when you see the world "as it is"... and it does suck. But as you read through Mastery, I get the sense that there is civic duty and humanity thrown in here. Krauser is not in it to make you into a machine. you still need a heart and soul to get good at this. don't stray too far off the deep end - remember it's about being centered. Attraction means nothing if you can't connect.

I think this is a great game book for guys who want to reconnect with themselves, a way of coming to terms with the bitterness of the red pill. It's not feel good, posi vibe nonsense, it's accepting the world as it is, knowing your place, and getting ready to take the journey and put in the work necessary to get the most out of it.

The way Krauser synthesizes game as we know it is fresh, honest and liberating. He lays out what to avoid, and what unnamed "morons" on the internet advocate [not Roosh, he gets referenced at one point]. Krauser sounds arrogant but when you see the context of his critiques, you can see how game is all about the fine tuning. This book is the collected musings of a man of action reflecting on the day in day out grind.

It would be interesting to see Krauser write more on the meta-level of game, or release an "Am I dark Triad?" twitter collection in the future.

Post: #138

(03-12-2014 01:00 PM)w00t Wrote:  What I find discouraging though is his stats... he posted he got 27 lays out of 1000 aproaches.

As others stated, this is a good stat. I haven't read his book but if your only approach criteria is based on the girl's looks alone, than a ~3% conversion rate from any cold approach of a random bangable girl is excellent.

Night game, internet "game", social-circle game - approaches here are on girls pre-selected to be expecting game from you, going out hoping to be gamed to some degree, or already know you and want your game, so the conversion here will always be much higher that for day game. The benefit of day game is, hey, it's game on all the time, cheap, and easy to just add it on to your daily life with minimal extra effort and no cost.

And bottom line on conversion stats: nobody remembers their strike outs or batting average, but they always remember their home runs! That's what counts here!

Post: #139

(03-12-2014 09:13 PM)unbowed Wrote:  Ok been threading a review together over the past few days

Thanks for posting such a detailed and carefully thought-out review. It was a pleasure to read and gave me some food for thought. I'm glad you liked the book

Post: #140

In regards to all that "ROI" bollocks, you're only counting that as sex as well. Sure, the end goal of hitting on a girl is having sex with them, but having read a lot of Krauser's posts, it's obvious he enjoys female company.

So, what about the girls you go out on a date with that you don't end up having sex with? What about the girls that you create lasting memories with from fun dates, heavy makeout sessions, blow jobs in public, having an attractive girl on your arm while everyone on the street looks on in envy? Because they didn't end up in sex, that's to be discounted from everything?

People get into Game to become better with women. Compare your life to before Game and how many girls you were seeing then. I bet you would kill for a few fun dates a week with a couple sexy girls - even if they didn't end up in sex. Fuck it, I bet you'd even have hoped for just one date a month with any girl. I sure would have.

The thing a lot of you guys don't realise on here, is that if you're hitting on European girls like Krauser is: it's not fucking easy.

In fact, you guys actually think it's the other way around. You think we've got it easier than you over here.

In America, the girls are slutty as hell. In England, the girls are slutty as hell.

The Europeans have been brought up with very strict family values in most cases. It could even take you 3 or more dates before she'll even let you hold her hand. They come from more sheltered backgrounds so aren't as open as American and English girls.

I bet if Krauser went to America and did 1,000 approaches, he'd be having sex with at least 100 girls. When you're hitting on high quality European women without that slut factor, then your numbers aren't going to be as high as girls where one night stands are part of the culture.

Talk with any European girl about the behaviour of English or American women, and their reactions will be exactly the same as you guys say on here.

Anyway, that's beyond the point of this thread as it's about his book. 37 in 1,000 is better than 0 in 0.

Post: #141

Smashed it Matty.

Post: #142

nice review from unbowed, leaving with a mountain task to beat that haha

Post: #143

(03-13-2014 10:30 AM)MattC Wrote:  Anyway, that's beyond the point of this thread as it's about his book. 37 in 1,000 is better than 0 in 0.

An old business partner used to say, "something of something is better than 100% of zero."

A poster broke it down to like 4 hours or something. Reminds me of a high school football coach who said go hard for 15 minutes. What he meant was there was the time after the play, play calling etc. Each 30 sec may have tops 5 to 10 seconds of actual hard exertion.

For those who really want to be upset about the ROI, don't forget all the time to you spend reading stuff here, other forums, getting yourself psyched up to go out (if you need to play music etc.). You can now be even more upset about ROI.

The emotional rush and high for one "victory" washes away the frustration of a bunch of rejections. Keep that in mind.

At the end of the day it is about happiness, the high of victory washes so much disappointment. And to mention I think what DVY and McQueen and other guys have said, game is supposed to be fun. If you have a good time doing it, then you are having fun even without the lay.

If it seems like work, well then maybe you need to find a technique/style that can make it more fun for you.

Post: #144

(03-13-2014 10:30 AM)MattC Wrote:  The thing a lot of you guys don't realise on here, is that if you're hitting on European girls like Krauser is: it's not fucking easy.

In fact, you guys actually think it's the other way around. You think we've got it easier than you over here.

You say Europe is more difficult - this based on your personal experience of approaching exactly how many women in the US?

I don't want to hear about the slutty American girls you met in London, because everyone knows women behave differently outside their home country and while on vacation.

Respectfully, anyone who has not cold-approached a reasonable number of women in both the US in Europe should not be making this argument.

Post: #145

(03-13-2014 03:52 PM)Sugar Wrote:  

(03-13-2014 10:30 AM)MattC Wrote:  The thing a lot of you guys don't realise on here, is that if you're hitting on European girls like Krauser is: it's not fucking easy.

In fact, you guys actually think it's the other way around. You think we've got it easier than you over here.

You say Europe is more difficult - this based on your personal experience of approaching exactly how many women in the US?

I don't want to hear about the slutty American girls you met in London, because everyone knows women behave differently outside their home country and while on vacation.

Respectfully, anyone who has not cold-approached a reasonable number of women in both the US in Europe should not be making this argument.

I've never been to America so my only experience of American girls is while they were travelling. But regarding European girls, it very much depends on where in Europe she is from; all I know is that here in the UK, whenever I start talking to a girl and she turns out to be a non-English European, my likelihood of success goes up considerably compared to if she were English. At the least, I'll probably have a good interaction. I feel like I almost breathe a sigh of relief that she's not English !

Post: #146

(03-13-2014 03:52 PM)Sugar Wrote:  

(03-13-2014 10:30 AM)MattC Wrote:  The thing a lot of you guys don't realise on here, is that if you're hitting on European girls like Krauser is: it's not fucking easy.

In fact, you guys actually think it's the other way around. You think we've got it easier than you over here.

You say Europe is more difficult - this based on your personal experience of approaching exactly how many women in the US?

I don't want to hear about the slutty American girls you met in London, because everyone knows women behave differently outside their home country and while on vacation.

Respectfully, anyone who has not cold-approached a reasonable number of women in both the US in Europe should not be making this argument.

Why would I need to base it on my personal experience? It's true.

The guy who made this forum admitted to not being able to get a one night stand in Ukraine in 6 months despite trying as hard as he could. You think he wouldn't be able to in America?

All I see on this forum is "slut this, slut that" about American women. The amount of stories shared on here is evidence enough.

Post: #147

Wow apparently my comment pissed off a lot of people. That was not my intention at all.

Maybe I need to clarify. I dont consider myself good at daygame by any means... but even I can get 1-2 bangs out of 100 approaches. I always considered that a pretty low success rate.

So seeing Krausers stats come out at 2,7%, a guy who has spent years honing his craft... well that was surprising to me.

In no way am I questioning his credibility. I actually commend his honesty. Hardly anyone ever talks about numbers.

Maybe I have a different mindset on game than others but I dont consider it fun, to me its an means to an end. Its only natural to me to look for ways to put in less work for more results. Thats what made me question the efficiency of daygame, not of Krauser the person.

Post: #148

Daygame is about quality, nightgame is for getting sluts. No doubt at all that numbers are higher for night time.

Post: #149

(03-14-2014 01:22 AM)w00t Wrote:  So seeing Krausers stats come out at 2,7%, a guy who has spent years honing his craft... well that was surprising to me.

In no way am I questioning his credibility. I actually commend his honesty. Hardly anyone ever talks about numbers.

Maybe I have a different mindset on game than others but I dont consider it fun, to me its an means to an end. Its only natural to me to look for ways to put in less work for more results. Thats what made me question the efficiency of daygame, not of Krauser the person.

Conveniently, there's a section in the book that covers the two ways of thinking about number farming (p63):

1. Restocking your leads
2. Upgrading your rotation
   

Two different motivations, two different strategies. Krauser's clear on his blog and in the book that he's not after raw numbers, but looking for high quality girls who fit his type.

Not surprising to me that raising standards would decrease the number of lays while increasing the pleasure from each notch (at least until the hedonic treadmill catches up).

"I'd hate myself if I had that kind of attitude, if I were that weak." - Arnold

Post: #150

(03-14-2014 01:22 AM)w00t Wrote:  Wow apparently my comment pissed off a lot of people. That was not my intention at all.

Maybe I need to clarify. I dont consider myself good at daygame by any means... but even I can get 1-2 bangs out of 100 approaches. I always considered that a pretty low success rate.

So seeing Krausers stats come out at 2,7%, a guy who has spent years honing his craft... well that was surprising to me.

In no way am I questioning his credibility. I actually commend his honesty. Hardly anyone ever talks about numbers.

Maybe I have a different mindset on game than others but I dont consider it fun, to me its an means to an end. Its only natural to me to look for ways to put in less work for more results. Thats what made me question the efficiency of daygame, not of Krauser the person.

Haha, not pissed off at all, mate!